So what’s everyone’s favorite non core base class and why? (ex scout, ninja, warmage, etc.)
I’m going to go with the Binder from Tome of Magic. It’s just has so much versatility and cool tricks. Plus if you ever get tired of being in one role you can always change to another.
Fizz
So what’s everyone’s favorite non core base class and why? (ex scout, ninja, warmage, etc.)I’m going to go with the Binder from Tome of Magic. It’s just has so much versatility and cool tricks. Plus if you ever get tired of being in one role you can always change to another.
Fizz
Right now, I'm inclined to go with Binder as well. In addition to the reasons you listed, the class has a dark feel to it, it is very distinct from any other class, and it is full of built-in role playing opportunities (i.e., multiple personalities as a result of "possession" by different vestiges). I just love the concept.
Take the Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine. Make it Arcane instead of Divine, and replace spirit related abilities with Genie related abilities. You then have the Sha'ir from Al-Qadim (Which is my favorite class from my favorite setting).
My favorite non-core class is probably the Beguiler (PHB2). I do love me my spell points, and 6+INT with INT as the casting stat is awesome. 9th level spells from a very good spell list (all of which you know), d6 hit dice and light armor make a very good, dependable character.
Too bad the one time I get to play one we are assaulting a giant ant's nest :(
I'm a big fan of the binder as well. I'm also a fan of the scout.
I've had a deep hankering to play a factotum (Dungeonscape) to just be a skillmonkey of unparalelled versatility. (Don't know if it actually plays out like that, but thats what the playing is for!)
I've had a deep hankering to play a factotum (Dungeonscape) to just be a skillmonkey of unparalelled versatility. (Don't know if it actually plays out like that, but thats what the playing is for!)
I'd like to play a factotum (or a swordsage), but I think all my DMs would just take a look at it and say that's too powerful.
The more I see of the Scout class, the more I like it. It’s the archer that the Ranger should have been and yet never quite made it.
Well, I'll always prefer core, PHB classes over supplemental ones (and my opinion remains that anything with treads on their feet by outshining them, making the core class redundant or obsolete, is bad).
However, I have quite a few supplemental classes that I find I like. Hexblades, duskblades, binders, and shadowcasters all seem nice to me for various reasons. I'm a big fan of mage-types, including fighter/mages, so that explains three of my likes, and binders are intereting just for their versatility and unique concepts.
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Warlock has been a popular non-core class since Complete Arcane came out. No disrespect to the Sorcerer, but it's almost what that class should have felt like. Aside from that, I'd have to join the Binder bandwagon (all the previous reasons listed, as well as more of a "Dark Ages" feel to magic). I've given the Shadowcaster a bit of a try, still uncertain on it.
The Hexblade has grabbed my imagination, but I have not taken the opportunity to play one yet. The Ninja has appeared to be just as cool for PCs as NPCs, so I'd have to put some good word for it as well.
Being a big fan of psionics: the Wilder has worked out well as an alternative to the psion; the psionic-surge ability allows for potentially heroic acts beyond what a character of your level would normally be able to do. I've also been curious to try out some of the new psionic classes from Expanded Psionics.
The Knight (PHBII) and the Mountebank (Dragon Compendium) are also fun alternatives. I've given the Shugenja (Complete Divine/Oriental Adventures) a try, but have been less than satisfied with it's mechanics.
I've been trying to figure out some way to play a dread necromancer/knight/eldritch knight. I love the "specialized mage" classes, and I've always had a soft spot for necromancers.
El Skootro
Warlock is my favorite arcane class. It was already mentioned, but I truly do feel the Warlock /is/ what the Sorcerer should have been. It's been receiving increased support in the form of new invocations, feats, and alternate class abilities too, which helps its appeal a lot.
Erudite is my favorite psionic class; not only does it have plenty of support with the existing psionic suppliments, but it's received a bit of a nod in some recent articles in the form of alternate class abilities on the WotC website. It's a psion, without the limits on what powers you can learn.
Favorite melee class is the Knight. IMO, it's a brilliant, mundane replacement for the Paladin (I never really liked them), and while not as versatile as the fighter, it gets enough sweetness that it remains relevant in nearly every combat scenario AND has real roleplay value out of combat.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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It's odd - I'm not a fan of psionics at all really. I just don't like how they've been handled or how the psionic system has been constructed. But, one of my favorite classes is the Soulknife. Sure, it has some drawbacks, and I question some of the design features (like the lack of bonus feats and the BAB structure), but I really like the concept.
It aint perfect, but I've always wanted to try one out.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I do enjoy the warlock class but, as for favorite non-core classes, I'll have to go with the warmage for spellcasting and the knight for non-casting.
I don't like the sorcerer class because I feel that, anything a sorcerer can do, a wizard can do better. The warmage, on the other hand, is the ultimate blaster concept. Warmage edge, numerous spells per day, and a compliment of highly devastating spells to choose from makes this a great class to play if all you want to do is blow stuff up. And let me tell you, blowing stuff up can be quite liberating! Also, with the Advanced Learning (or the Ecclectic Learning variant in the PHB2) the warmage becomes a much more valuable party member, capable of at least providing a couple non-combat spells. Really though, if you're playing a warmage, you're planning to kill stuff... and boy is it fun!
Knights are just... cool. The game needed a 'defender' core class and this is it. Sure, you can tweak a fighter towards being a defender, but this class gets so many unique abilities (not to mention a d12 hit die) that it truly stands alone. My one gripe? Poor Fortitude save. That doesn't really make sense to me. Otherwise, though, awesome class.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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It's odd - I'm not a fan of psionics at all really. I just don't like how they've been handled or how the psionic system has been constructed. But, one of my favorite classes is the Soulknife. Sure, it has some drawbacks, and I question some of the design features (like the lack of bonus feats and the BAB structure), but I really like the concept.
It aint perfect, but I've always wanted to try one out.
Check the expanded class features in the Mind's Eye Articles or Dreamscarred Press' soulknife varient.
As for me, I'd say the Erudite, beguiler, and Lurk,
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Check the expanded class features in the Mind's Eye Articles or Dreamscarred Press' soulknife varient.
I've seen the Mind's Eye articles - it makes the Soulknife a little better - especially with the Hidden Talent feat. I've not seen Dreamscarred's variant though . . . I'll have to check it out.
I like the worlock and the beguiler. At first glance I thought I would like the Warmage, but in the end "yawn", it really is BORING class. I really don't see the what excites so many others about this class.
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My personal favorite (non-core class) is the Artificer from the Eberron C.S., followed closely by the Artificer Mongoose Publishing came out with in their "Power Classes series", which is then followed by the Jester from the Dragon Compendium.
If I can pick from the core classes as well, I'd have to say the Bard. Especially combined with the Thri-Kreen race from XPH. I enjoy all the fun I can have and the shenanagens(sp?) I can get away with, and then when the party asks, I can justify it all by saying "hey, I'm the Bard! what'd you expect?"
Incarnate, from Magic of Incarnum.
Hm, I enjoy the Wu Jen, but only as a varian wizard. I also like the Shugenja, a sort of divine sorceror. But in all, the supplemental classes are only variants of the core classes. We like them for flavor and abilities, but their abilities are not very different from those core classes, and the flavor can be imparted to any class we'd like via rollplay. The exception is the warlock, which is an interesting look at magic in my opinion, though I've never played one.
Scout: To me this is what the ranger class should be.
I also really like the Knight
Swashbuckler--loved those old Errol Flynn movies, and especially Gene Kelly in the old "Three Musketeers." I'm a big fan of Monte Cook's Unfettered as well.
Well at this point since I rarely get to play it's hard to pickw. I would have to say that even though I have never played one, the Beguiler looks really interesting to me. A close second would be a binder which is another class that I have not had a chance to play.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I've actually never looked at Dungeonscape before. Can someone explain the Factotum to me? What does it do? I get the impression that it's some kind of skill-based class. The fact that it's presented in 'Dungeonscape' suggests to me that it must be some kind of class well-suited to dungeon-crawling but I suppose that isn't necessarily the case. Can I get a synopsis?
I'm going to ban all classes from my campaign whose names start with "War" or "Dragon." By my reckoning, that's about 82,460 fewer classes to worry about. Anybody with me?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I'm going to ban all classes from my campaign whose names start with "War" or "Dragon." By my reckoning, that's about 82,460 fewer classes to worry about. Anybody with me?
If you're just talking about base classes, that only eliminates the Warblade, Warmage, Warlock, and Dragon Shaman by my count. If you include Prestige Classes, then the number increases dramatically...
I'm going to ban all classes from my campaign whose names start with "War" or "Dragon." By my reckoning, that's about 82,460 fewer classes to worry about. Anybody with me?If you're just talking about base classes, that only eliminates the Warblade, Warmage, Warlock, and Dragon Shaman by my count. If you include Prestige Classes, then the number increases dramatically...
Also the Warrior, and Monte Cook's Warmain, as far as base classes go. But, yeah, 3 WotC PC base classes that start with "War" (a substantial fraction of the total), plus the limitless number of prestige classes that are similarly-named, not to mention the Dragon Shaman, Dragon Disciple, Purple Dragon Knight, Dragon Dips%!t... well, you get the picture. Add that to the Warforged race, and all the hype on WotC's site about "Warbands," and I'm ready to puke. I'm just sick of classes (base or prestige) that feel like they HAVE to use one of those two words, like it's an official rule or something. Next month: presenting the Warlord, Warmonger, Warband Leader, and Wardragon classes! And the Dragon of War prestige class!
A second vote for the incarnate.
If you're really looking to confuse the heck out of your DM, dip into one level of incarnate. This gives you access to bajillions of minor magic items you pretty much pull out of thin air, as-needed, two at a time, and a point of this nifty "essentia" stuff to pump them up with. It's like you've got Skill Focus (pretty much everything). Oh, and if you're neutral good, you can detect evil, too. I really don't like "munchkin" builds, but a level (or /maybe/ two) of incarnate seems like a part of one. (Only the skill list is lacking ... but your soulmelds make up for that.) If you REALLY want to confuse the DM, make the character dipping into incarnate a factotum or savant.
Mountebanks are also fun (read your Chaucer for some inspiration) as a rogue replacement in the right campaign (and the only non-good character I'd play, probably) and battledancers are chaotic martial artists, which is just cool. I used the much-loved binder as the basis for a voodoo "horse" style NPC once. It is a perfect fit, but re-working each of the vestiges to fit that backstory would be time consuming.
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I've actually never looked at Dungeonscape before. Can someone explain the Factotum to me? What does it do? I get the impression that it's some kind of skill-based class. The fact that it's presented in 'Dungeonscape' suggests to me that it must be some kind of class well-suited to dungeon-crawling but I suppose that isn't necessarily the case. Can I get a synopsis?
IIRC, it's a class that can basically use any skill, and additionally get a certain number of points per day that can be used to use the class skills of other classes. Like, you could rage, or cast divine spells, etc. You only get to do it a few times a day, but the class is super-versatile. Think bard w/ the jack of all trades feat, on steroids.
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I'll jump on the Scout bandwagon. It is a very cool class that works well with other classes, but does not step on anyone else's toes. I don't think it replaces the Ranger, as was suggested, but I DO think the Scout is a fantastic multi class with a Ranger (especially an archer oriented Ranger)
I would go so far as to suggest that whenever the big bad 4th edition comes out, Scout could be made a core class.
I also am not a big fan of Psionics, but I really like the SoulKnife. In fact, I am considering aloowing Psionics in my world, but making them (it?) VERY rare and only allowing the Soulknife as the only Psionic class.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I also am not a big fan of Psionics, but I really like the SoulKnife. In fact, I am considering aloowing Psionics in my world, but making them (it?) VERY rare and only allowing the Soulknife as the only Psionic class.
While that's not the route I'd take (Me heart psionics) I'd say you might want to tie them, more flavour wise to the monk. Monks might see them as a poor cousin. "You focus yourself to make a weapon with your mind, you limit yourself and deny the harmony of mind and body."
Well, I certainly don't have all the non-core books, but, in no particular order:
1) Psion, Psionic Warrior & Soulknife (EPH) + Illumine Soul (CP) 5-level prestige class for the Soulknife (you will kick serious ass on the undead!);
2) all 3 Tome of Battle classes; though have not actually played any yet;
3) Binder from Tome of Magic, and would like to try and get the unofficial "boost" for the Shadowcaster promised on the WOTC boards by the designer;
4) all 12 base classes from Arcana Evolved; which really means way more than 12 if you're familiar w/ them :)
5) haven't had time to read Magic of Incarnum, but I'm reasonably sure I'll love that book from what I've glanced at, and what others have written.
It's gotta be the binder for me, too.
I tried playing a hexblade before, and wasn't a fan. They're highly novel, but their curses require a lot of devotion to function well. (Thankfully, Dragon put out a Class Acts listing feats to change your hexblade's curse to do slightly different things.) Their spells are a nice, appropriate addition, and they get great class features. But in the end, they remind me of a variant paladin, in the game mechanic sense of the word.
Fortunately, a buddy of mine's gonna be running the Expedition to Ravenloft, in which I'm going to play a halfling shadowcaster. Should be fun, at least for a four-level adventuring dip.
I've always been extremely fond of the scout, and the McArtor run of "Class Acts" and Complete Scoundrel haven't done anything to dampen my ardor.
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I'm something of a crotchety traditionalist. I have a soft ban on all non PHB core classes. A player needs to pitch me not only on why the class would be cool, but on its weaknesses and how it balances with the existing classes. I do like the idea of the binder and am considering allowing it on a trial basis.
I allow virtually any prestige class, although I resere the right to remove the munchkins from its packaging before serving :)
On a side note, I honestly never saw the need to add more base classes. The core classes cover the main bases, and prestige classes allow for infinite combinations and permutations. But, that's just my opinion.
I'm always the DM, so I don't get that much of a chance to play... but the non-core characters I've been itching to play are the battledancer from the Dragon Compendium (love martial arts but find monk's lawfulness a bit too stuffy), a psychic warrior or soulknife (I really like psionics), and a dragon shaman (having a breath weapon is just too cool).
I find that in general I actually prefer the core classes. Fighters are awesome as long as PHB2 is around so that there are no shortages of good fighter feats.
My favorite class, hands down, is a sorcerer - but if I had to choose, well then a class I've been interested in trying out some time is a multi-class Monk/Psychic Warrior. Though the Psychic Warrior part is more so that I can get the neat feats that allow one to run up walls and such and also to get access to some more feats (monks can use tons of great feats but get access to very few).
I'm not actually sure that this is a good monk build however. Monks have this weird cure in their balance where they seem really rather weak right up to around 10th level and then they suddenly take off and become this phenomenal combat class. I'm always scared that taking Psychic Warrior and maybe a couple of levels of fighter for the feats will critically slow my monk down in terms of finally becoming the great class that they seem to become at the really high levels.
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My favorite? Definitely the Swordsage, which is also probably my favorite class overall. It's like they looked at the Monk and noticed, "Hey, this class sucks because its class features don't make a damn lick of sense put together and don't have a coherent progression," and made up a new class that addressed both issues, with an amazingly awesome new mechanic for dealing with and improving martial attacks to boot.
Scout and Warlock. Gestalted for even MORE obscene funness! I agree that the Warlock feels like what I had *expected* the Sorcerer to be when it was first announced. (I did this *once* in a two-PC party and talked the DM into letting me go with flaws and bloodlines. Yes, my munchkin-self appeared...)
Main player says she likes the Favored Soul and the Scout. FS for spotaneous casting of Divine spells without the fear of "Did I prepare the right spells for the day?" Skirmish is like sneak-attack without having to be a Rogue + Ranger-y kewlness!
Youngest says Scout, for that Wilderness Rogue flavor with Combat abilities.
Another of our group says Swashbuckler or Ninja, because he just likes that acrobatic flair.
Cloistered Cleric (UA) and Warblade (ToNS)
"Cloistered Cleric" because it far more fits my image of a cleric than the warrior-priest//chaplain type PHB cleric. More brains at work, excellent skillpoints, far funnier builds. plus, a far more religious feeling than seeing a "chaplain" of Chauntea or Sharess....
"Warblade" because it basically puts all the "cool moves" style fighting back into the warrior-types that got lost in the "meatgrinder" fighter.
Hmmm. I like the Swordsage because I've always wanted a Monk-with-a-sword type character and the various Kensai style prestige classes never quite did it for me.
Hexblade is cool but they seem somehow weak in game terms.
I would also like to plead immunity for the Warlock from Kirth's ban on "War" and "Dragon" classes because a) The name comes from an Old English word meaning "oath-breaker" and just happens to have "war" in it as a coincidence, and b) they are too damn cool to be banished because of their name.
At the moment I have a crush on the Factotum, Warlock, Binder and Dragonfire Adept. Also feeling lots of lust for Hadozee, Changelings, The Mineral Warrior template, Feral template, Tibbit and Aventi characters.