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We are roughly half-way through the final battle of ToD and I am really beginning to feel my character (Tristan Lidu) is only just slightly better then useless. It seems every BBEG and boss monster we fight lately has magic resistance of at least my level + 12 and some way of dismissing my summons. Her spell selection is weak because she hasn't found any spellbooks or scrolls to speak of. Being a wizard she lacks combat skills. Against the big boss monsters of these later campaigns Tristan performs the following functions: she is an extra target (58 hp at 10th level), she can cast a few buff spells on her team mates, and her spells sometimes soaks up a dispel magic or a dismissal. I love playing Tristan but I'm really tired of being the only one not contributing (damage) in the big battles. Am I wrong in guessing that this trend continues? Should I give up on magic all together and simply make a new character?

Xaosjim |

Are you using the Orb spells from Complete Arcane (or Spell Compendium)? Those spells are not affected by Spell Resistance. It is rough being a wizard in Savage Tide unless the DM inserts spellbooks into the adventure himself. There aren't many Wizards floating around in this AP to my knowledge.

Humble Minion |

What spells do you have?
I wouldn't get too despondent yet. Summoned creature attacks ignore SR, and every action a bbeg uses dismissing summons is an action they don't spent on beating up your fellow party members.
When you next get some downtime, you might want to consider doing spell research to widen your spell selection. Even if you only 'research' PHB spells, every spell you add to your list helps.
Look to use magic less as a pure damage-causing blast and more as a tactical instrument to position and assist your party, and hinder your enemies - the bonus is that spell resistance will rarely apply against utility magic. Teleports etc are great, and even grease is a nice spell for a 1st level slot...

Jeremy Mac Donald |

Eventually you'll be in a position to buy spells in civilization. A wizard generally should be spending a lot of money on their spell book when they get a chance. Admittedly savage tide makes that tough. You leave Sasserine before your really rich enough to throw tons of money at your spell book and its some time before you can get to a place where your in a position to drop 10 grand on buying spells.
As to your basic problem of spell resistance. There are some spells that will mitigate this to a certain extent. As others have noted a wizard often serves his party best not by damaging foes but by helping his allies through things like positional and utility magic.
Basically speaking your more or less correct that this will continue. Its not completely the nature of Savage Tide - its the nature of the modern version of D&D. Powerful monsters have spell resistance a lot. Their resistance is very often higher then the spell casters level. Furthermore as the levels go up the BBEGs tend to have counters to a great many tactical options that a wizard will use to immobilize the enemy. The most common and probably the most effective is freedom of movement but things like really good will saves or other abilities that make them immune to mind effecting effects are very common as well.
Ultimately this is really a play balance issue. Wizards are phenomenally powerful at high levels except that their spells fail 50% of the time or are otherwise countered by the BBEG. This essentially keeps the fighters and rogues very viable until the highest of levels. Much less chance of their abilities failing. Maybe DR reduces the impact but a high level fighter will overcome most DR and at least still do some damage.

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Are you using the Orb spells from Complete Arcane (or Spell Compendium)? Those spells are not affected by Spell Resistance. It is rough being a wizard in Savage Tide unless the DM inserts spellbooks into the adventure himself. There aren't many Wizards floating around in this AP to my knowledge.
Are there many wizards in any Paizo product? :) It was quite a gap between spellbooks in Age of worms.
A trio of good SR no conjurations in the PH: glitterdust, web and Evard's black tentacles.

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What spells do you have?
Thanks for everyone's replys,
I guess I should post a little more information for everyone:5th level spells:
break enchantment (to prevent mind control on our low will fighter/rogue party)
Overland flight
SM V
Teleport
4th level spells:
dimension door
leomund's secure shelter (because I was tired of being jerked around by those damn dirty demon apes!)
SM IV
Orb of Cold
3rd level spells:
Dispel magic (better then fireball)
fireball (practically required as a mage)
fly
haste
SM III
water breathing
2nd level spells:
melf's acid arrow (remember back in 2nd ed when this spell didn't suck?)
Scorching Ray (the new must have 2nd level spell)
SM II (sense a theme?)
web
snake's swiftness (I can make my buffed fighter hit again!)
1st level Spells:
comprehend Languages
enlarge person
feather fall
identify
mage armor
magic missile (I think all spell books come with this spell automatically scribed in it)
shield
sleep
SM I (Tristan likes summons)
true strike (which is sometimes quickened so I don't miss with my orb)
so that's what I'm looking at, not a bad mix I thought, but when my summons get dismissed or dispelled it really makes it hard for me to be effective as a mage.

Jeremy Mac Donald |

Xaosjim wrote:Are you using the Orb spells from Complete Arcane (or Spell Compendium)? Those spells are not affected by Spell Resistance. It is rough being a wizard in Savage Tide unless the DM inserts spellbooks into the adventure himself. There aren't many Wizards floating around in this AP to my knowledge.Are there many wizards in any Paizo product? :) It was quite a gap between spellbooks in Age of worms.
A trio of good SR no conjurations in the PH: glitterdust, web and Evard's black tentacles.
As a rule DMs and adventure writers are going to be strongly drawn to sorcerer types. a bad guy sorcerer has a limited list of spells that one has to keep track of. This makes planning tactics for an encounter easier and also reduces the foot print of having a spell caster in the adventure. Problem with a wizard is not only do you need to mention all the spells he has chosen for the day but then you have to make a big list of the spells in his spell book. Sorcerer types are easier to run and take up less space in the magazine.

Jeremy Mac Donald |

Humble Minion wrote:What spells do you have?Thanks for everyone's replys,
I guess I should post a little more information for everyone:...
Thats really a pretty good spell book. If you think your useless with this then, uh, you might want to look into making a new character 'cause this looks pretty workable as a mage. I'd have made some different choices but its really pretty good spell selection. You've clearly already dealt with much of the problem of SR with an orb spell, conjurations and party buffs.
I think your just going to have to get used to the fact that the parties mage tends to find that the bad guys have a counter to his magic as often as not. I bet your good at countering the bad guys magic too. Thats just kind of what life as a mage is about, IMO.

mevers |

Your spell selection looks alright, although I think you maybe doubled up on a few too many SM spells. Normally this is not a problem at all with wizards, as they can easily replace them as they level, but with your lack of opportunity to do so, this hampers you a little. But with your character it makes perfect sense to take them each spell level.
I think the biggest problem with your spell selection is the fact that you have a lot of utility spells, and not all that many offensive spells. Especially at your highest levels, you only have SMV (and IV) and Orb of Cold to contribute during battle. Looking at your spell list, it seems you have roughly the same number of spells in your spell book as a sorcerer knows, which for a wizard sucks.
You have a few options to overcome this.
1) I see you know teleport. Now, I am not sure about the distances involved, but Teleport has a range of 100 miles / level. Since you are able to cast 5th level spells, you are at least level 9. That is 900 miles with one casting. It should be possible to get back to Sasserine with only a couple of castings. You can even take your party along.
2) Talk to your DM. Tell him (or her) that you are not having fun, due to the limited nature of the spells your wizard knows. If they are at least halfway decent, it should be easy for them to add a few spell books / scrolls etc to make things better for you.
I would suggest you follow number 2 first, and if that doesn't work, take a week to teleport back to Sasserine and pick up some scrolls (I would suggest Assay Spell Resistance (SpC)). It even makes perfect sense for your character to do so, as it is a easy way for them to increase their effectiveness in battle.
Now, as if I hadn't written enough, just a short comment on your lack of damage.
Yes, a wizard can do as much, if not more, damage than a fighter, however that is not their job. The fighter (or insert other melee character here) can do one thing, hit point damage. And they do it fairly well, and reliably. Why should the mage try to do what the fighter can do quite well (especially as it is basically the only thing the fighter can do).
No, it is much better for the mage to play battlefield control, and set the opponents up for the fighters and rogues to unleash full attacks on.
An example from (low level, as I am not overly familiar with higher level spells, but the principle still applies) play is the wizard casts web, catching two enemies in the area. At this the fighters and rogues eyes light up, as they can go to town on the entangled enemies, and do what they do best, take their hitpoints away in short order. And everyone is happy, the melee guys got to do stacks of damage to (basically) helpless opponents, and the wizard gets the satisfaction of knowing that one spell dictated the combat. The Cleric is also happy, as the melee guys didn't take much damage, so she gets to use your spells for other things.
Look for spells that (effectively) end the combat on a failed save, not that just do raw hitpoint damage. Imagine a wall of stone filled with stinking cloud. There is a simple two spell combo (they are even both conjuration, your specialty), that can have a massive impact on the battlefield. And that is only after a quick (literaly 10 second) glance through the Conjuration spells in the PHB.
As a conjurer, Spell Resistance should be the least of your worries. The advantage of most conjuration spells is that they don't allow Spell Resistance, as the spell doesn't directly damage the target, but summons something that damages it.
And as someone said already, every action the BBEG spends dismissing your summoned critters is round they are not full attacking the fighter types.
I hope you get the problem sorted. The worst thing in DnD is not having fun at the table. But talk to your DM, it is their job to make sure you have fun.

ericthecleric |
Lots of good advice above. To add to it:
Check out the Arcane Class Act in Dragon 353 (p. 86-87)- it’s “Spells Without SR”; should be very helpful!
Once the PC get some downtime, make some scrolls and/or wands if you can, and/or teleport to Sasserine.
Ask your DM to look at the “Where can wizards get spells” thread (archived in the STAP section) from May. James Jacobs makes some useful suggestions that might help. (There’s a few spoilers in that thread, so don’t look at it yourself.)

Bryon_Kershaw |

If I might add another suggestion, Dismissal, a standard spell which is used to banish a summoned creature, targets only a single target.
Using Summon Monster, you can summon multiple weaker monsters from the other summon spells. This will allow you to generate a more significant amount of monsters, who, while perhaps not as strongly reliable, will be harder to dismiss. At the least these monsters can flank the enemy, at most you might be surprised by how good they can be.
Now I dunno what you're looking at for alignment, but let's say you're inclined to summon fiendish or celestial creatures. At Summon Monster 5 you can get a fiendish tiger OR you can get 1 to 3 celestial lions or fiendish direwolves OR 2 to 5 hippogriffs, celestial bison (can stampede) or hellhounds.
Just remember, as a wizard versatility is the name of the game for you. Teleport a fellow PC archer to an advantageous position, help everyone fly and get the advantage over ground based enemies, or even cast some of those buffs on your own summons, such as enlarging a hippogriff or hastening the tiger.
Finally, there's a few spells you have which ignore SR: acid arrow, the orb spell (I think), and you could find others. If you think you're going to be coming up against a lot of enemies with SR, pen a few more Acid Arrows and Orbs of Cold each day.
~ Bryon ~

James Keegan |

Also, you might want to think a little more tactically with your summons; meaning factor the possibility of dismissal into your game plan. Summoning multiple creatures is a great idea, as is summoning something maybe a little lower level than your best monster in the hopes that the enemy will use their dismissal against THAT monster, then using your higher level one once you figure the option is off the table. Plus, using those summons against enemies that clearly aren't spellcasters can take pressure off of your melee focused comrades, keeping them a bit more healthy for the tougher encounters.
Ask your DM to maybe put more scrolls and spellbooks into the loot. The ancient Olman had wizards during their empire and some of their ruins may contain preserved tablets and papyrus. Pick up the language or seek out an interpreter and you may be able to use them.

uzagi |

hmmm, two things :
As for you feeling vulnerable and exposed in combat - why is there no Invisibility spell in your spellbook ? I would guess "forbidden school" but there is no indication of which ones. If yes, what schools are forbidden to you ?
Second - the role of a mage in mid- to endlevel battles is very much battlefield control (as mentioned above) as is "one shot --->take-down" maneuvres.
While you don't seem to have wall-type spells ( to break up enemy groups and isolate opponents ), you have the means to eliminate groups of lesser opponents very quickly (via fireball etc. or by dropping a summoned paranormal being into their midst...). Clouds and Fogs work equally well.
- You also have the means to provide cover for your teammates, by having the summoned beasties protect their flanks or setting up flanking positions. They also have "true strike", and from 4 HD up, DR/magic, which means thay should be able to strike opponents hit only by magic weaponry without much hassle.
A pseudonatural fiendish Dire Wolf should be very very effective for example - especially if it fights in its alternate form (-1 to opponents actions) and leaves the opposition in the dark just what is fighting them.
- If your GM is willing, ask him to expand the "summonable creatures" list by things of an equal CR from the MMs II-V, particularly if he has qualms about you summoning fiendish pseudonatural "somethings".
- Pseudonatural elementals (especially large ones ) can be very nasty, especially if you go and pick the "Augment Elementals" feat, which adds a non-enhancement bonus to their HPs and Strength.
- Teleport to Sasserine (via Renku Island, that is about half-way to Sasserine as the crow flies ) to pick up some scrolls/spellbooks. With two teleports available/ day, that should be possible as a short weekend-vacation.
- Excellent upgrade Feats would include "Beckon the frozen" (Frostburn), which adds another 1D6 Cold damage to any summoned creatures attacks, except for those of the Fire-Subtype. Augment Elemental was mentioned above. Sudden Extend/Extend Spell will give your creatures better range to pursue opposition or perform deep-strike missions.
since you are a player, you might not want to know this....
... but all major BBEG so far (exception would be a certain Kopru druid - he has 1 dispel magic loaded ) have no capability of dispelling or even dismissing your creatures "as written".
Frankly, this means, your GM has reworked them to specificially counter your character's tactics and capabilites, make things more "challenging". I can't judge in how far he might also have adapted stuff to present more of a challenge to your fellow players, as well but the "dismissal" comment made me wonder about it. That is a 4th level cleric/5th leevl Wiz/sorc spell, and, so far no opposition BBEG should "as written" have had these even available. No clerics 7th level or up, no wiz/sorcs 9th level and up. and the STAP is pretty tough as is, no there is no real reason to upgrade the opposition or tailor it to counter a group specificially
Don't turn yourself into a one-trick pony. If you have necromancy available, get your hands on "Enervation" first thing - the levels lost, plus spells/SLAs lost by the opponent are just the best debuff around. If Invisibility is available, get it - an invisible conjuror ist the best conjuror !
Also, get yourself the "summon undead" spells (III and IV are especially nice for the troll skeletons) - they should be affected by the strength enhancement from "augment summoning", even if no HP are gained, and they beat their "Summon monster" list pendants flat for melee capability. And pseudonatural undead are just wondefully .... ICKY !
Summoned shadows are pretty nasty too, especially if you can sick a bunch of them on the BBEG first thing, to sap his strength. Unfortunately, they neither profit from "Augment Summoning", nor can they be pseudonatural - but they ca be very nasty if you have opposition caught in a solid fog, web, mire or whatever..
Generally, the "trend" will not really continue, because actually there should not have been a trend. And - in all honesty - the STAP becomes very very hard without a Wizard

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I think another way to make a conjurer more effective from a combat standpoint is to look hard at a few prestige classes. Master Specialist is awesome for a Conjurer as over the course of 10 levels, it will give your summons more hp, make the dispel check higher to get rid of them, and allow you to cast any conjuration spell you know with a casting time of a standard action as a swift action 3 times per day. Also see if your DM will let you take the Rapid Summoning variant from Unearthed Aracana. In a nut shell you give up your familiar in exchange to cast all your summon monster spells as standard actions instead of full round actions. Coupled with the Master Specialist's swift casting ability, you could cast 2 summon monsters every round if desired. That is a lot of monsters for an opponent to dismiss.
Another good prestige class to consider is Argent Savant. Probably the best mid level force blaster spell is a conjuration in Orb of Force. Couple that with the Argent Savant's ability to add damage and you will be doing 10d6+10 damage with the spell at your level. As for feats, look at Metamagic School Focus. Three times a day it lets you lower the metamagic cost for a spell by one. So couple empower spell with Orb of Force and Argent Savant class feature and Metamagic Focus and you get a 5th level spell that doe 15d6+15 points of damage, doesn't allow a save or SR, and only requires a range touch attack to a range of 100ft + 10 ft per level. When you can cast 9th level spells use the same features with Twin spell to get a spell that does 30d6+30 points of damage. Memorize two and use that with the master specialist swift casting feature and you can get off 60d6+60 points of force damage in a single round without a save or SR. In addition, since you don't have evocation as a prohibited school, you will get most of the other good force based spells to benefit from the Argent Savant class abilities.
As for summons, try to summon celestial creatures with gore or awsome charge. Then have them charge and use their smite evil ability as soon as they appear. That way before they can be dismissed they can put a hurting on your opponents. For feats, look at Imbued Summoning, and of course Augment Summoning. Use buffs in combat on your critters as well as your party members. Haste will affect one person per caster level. You should have no problem hasting your friends and your summons.
Beyond that, talk to your DM about better spell choices for your Conjurer. Ask him to put the occasional treasure in for you that is a spellbook and stuff. There is a location in Tides of Dread that is perfect for that, but in the interest of not spoiling it, I won't bring it up here. I hope these suggestions help.

infomatic |
I agree you've taken too many summon spells, though presumably you're not preparing all of them.
How are your summons being dispelled? A spellcraft or Know (arcana) should be able to determine this. If it's by a spell, you should be able to counterspell it.
If it's by a spell-like ability, have you or another party member ready an action to blast the jerk who's dismissing your beasties.
If you feel this is the case, grit your teeth and pick up more of those Orb spells, along something like Sudden Empower. Reserve your summon spells for out-of-combat or utility purposes.

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Some thoughts. Make scrolls or buy/make wands of lower-level summons and use those to soak up any dismissals or dispel magics the opponents might have. Also, if you want, ask your DM if you could swap one of your first level feats for Collegiate Wizard from Complete Arcane. That would practically double your spells known just from leveling.

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Good morning everyone. Again I'd like to thank everyone for their replies. After sleeping on it I'm less upset about last night's game. As you might imagine my first post was made directly after the game and emotions were still pretty high (or low in this case). My post still has relevance, but in the light of day, I think it may have been a tad over dramatic with the "slightly better then useless" comments.
Let me try to explain what I mean though:
* Spoilers ahead! *
(also I guessed I should have asked everyone for no spoilers as well, although every STAP issue of dungeon sits less then 15 feet away from me, I'm a player and have avoided reading those mags until after we complete them. Thanks for not spoiling my adventures thus far!)
The fight was aboard one of the attacking pirate ships. A group of Yaun-ti was raining down destruction upon Farshore. We had just attacked and removed one pirate ship with our crew and the Sea Wyvern so we immediately turned our attention upon the Yaun-ti.
I had overland flight cast that morning, and seeing as I was indivisible (thanks to my ring), I flew ahead to try to stall the attackers. I arrived at the enemy ship in two rounds, and thanks to my boots of levitation, was able to remain out of sight 40 feet above my enemy while I summoned something nasty. Tristan is an alienist. She summons pseudonatural creatures. The Yaun-ti sorcerer cast fly and left the deck of his(her?) ship for reasons unknown. Next round the Pseodonatural Dire Wolf (4th level summons) appeared directly beside where the sorcerer had been last round and began attacking yaun-ti body guards. With augmented summoning creatures with single attacks deal impressive amounts of damage, the wolf tore into one of the body guards, knocking him/her to the ground. Tristan began summoning again.
The Yaun-ti sorcerer dismissed my summons. My secondary summons appeared (a much smaller 2nd level summoned wolf) which I thought would be back-up, but now it was my only unit. It managed to deal a bit of damage before it was killed by a single yaun-ti. By this time Tristan's team mates were there (thanks to a charge with water walk) so Tristan flew down and cast haste on them. The Yaun-ti cast mirror image and got 7 images. Tristan wasn't going to cast any more summons against a creature that had dismissal so she cast Dispel magic on her enemy. She managed to dispel the fly and another (unknown) spell but the mirror images stayed up. One of our fighters (who was flying thanks to a potion) flew in and attacked the sorcerer but only managed to hit a mirror image. The Yaun-ti body guards attacked Tristan with arrows and the Yaun-ti sorcerer cast lightning bolt on her. Tristan took 46 damage in total. Tristan turned invisible and flew to safety.
By this round my allies and comrades had climbed aboard ship and had begun attacking Yaunt-ti and pirate alike. They didn’t have enough movement to get to the Yaunt-ti sorcerer however. Facing only one enemy, the sorcerer (using combat casting) cast scorching ray on his/her lone attacker, and the fighter (though now severely damaged) attacked the sorcerer four times (two weapon fighting + haste) he again only hit images.
Down to two images remaining the sorcerer cast fly again and took to the air. Our fighter missed on the AoO but flew after . . . but again only hit an image. I cast magic missiles splitting it between the two targets but failed to breach the SR. The sorcerer few five feet from the fighter and simply cast mirror image again. In retaliation I cast fireball, but (again!) failing to pierce the SR. I did destroy all the images. Our fighter flew up next to the sorcerer and unloaded with 3 out of 4 attacks. This was the first bit of damage the sorcerer had taken (not counting 1 point from an acid splash cast by Churtle, my cohort). Our cleric then cast dispel on the sorcerer (again) knocking him out of the sky (again). As he/she fell he took more AoO from the fighter and from my cohort (who’s using a spiked chain now). The sorcerer retaliated by scorching ray-ing Churtle (who was dropped to -6 with the blasts). I was horrified. I used one of my two prepared orb of colds, dealing 36 damage, but failing to blind that damn sorcerer (the secondary effect of OoC has yet to blind anyone, who would have thought DC 20 fort save so easy to save against?). The rest of our team, finally finished with the Yaun-ti bodyguards, and nearly the finished with rest of the pirate skeleton crew were able to swarm and finish off the sorcerer when he landed.
I tried one last trick, to charm person the last healthy pirates (via an old wand I found somewhere) aboard but naturally he saved. The others had to kill him while I tended to my cohort. All in all a very frustrating battle. Tristan stalled the villains I guess, but she didn’t drop anyone, and when an enemy has SR and a way of removing my summons it effectively destroys my offensive and defensive capabilities.
SR doesn’t bother me that much, I have ways of working around it, but every boss monster thus far having either dispel or dismissal REALLY pisses me off. Once in a while it’s not so bad, but this is two adventures in a row, and what’s worse, the demons we fought in HTBM could dispel at will, and this yaun-ti was a sorcerer with dismissal (even at 10th level that’s a minimum of 3 times a day), which means that they could remove anything powerful I put on the board with minimum resources loss to themselves while effectively wasting my high level spells.

Tsulis |

It sounds like Tristan did great. He burned an enemy 5th level spell with a fourth level spell of his won. He cast Haste on the party and gave the fighter extra attacks. He dipelled several spells. What was he supposed to do, kill them all sinlge handidly? A summon spell summoning multiple flying creatures might have gone through a few of those mirror images or forced the sorcerer to cast another dismissal instead of scorching the fighter and cohort.
I played a summoner in Red Hand of Doom and had a lot of good results from Web, Baleful tansposition, and summoning Lantern Archons. I also think your spell book is pretty good, for the record.

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Great suggestions BTW guys! Although I did know, and was already doing, much of what you've suggested, this creates an excellent recourse for anyone else thinking of playing a conjuror.
Tristan has chosen necromancy and illusion as her banned schools.
As far as feat selection goes Tristan is trying to climb the sudden quicken feat ladder. This will keep her occupied till level 12. After that . . . who knows.
Tristan uses her summons primarily to divert attacks from the party. She summons the biggest, meatiest monsters available, for the expressed purpose of soaking attacks. In the case of dire wolves Tripping opponents is a very cool side effect. Pseudonatural creatures are tanks. A little DR goes a long way and that true strike ability means that even my low level creatures can hit and damage most enemies before being turned to paste.
Tristan made a special point of studying the island of Ruja in the SWW with the idea of using it as a hopping point for teleportation back to Sasserine. Tristan hasn't been able to afford any higher level spells though because she has been in debt to the party for some time (those boots of levitation, ring of protection +2, and a 3rd level pearl of power doesn't come cheap). Buying scrolls and then copying them into spell books is pretty expensive as well! I've added some 3rd level and lower spells but haven't been able to afford (or more importantly) had the time to do that for the higher level spells yet.
I hadn’t thought of summoning multiple creatures though! I feel a like a noob. Unfortunately I had no way of knowing the Yaun-ti had dismissal until after he used it.
A ring of invisibility and boots of levitation have greatly increased her offensive capabilities. Tristan no longer needs to worry about finding protection for the full round it takes to summon. Overland flight means that she can choose the spots where she’s levitating. In the battle against a certain Kopru druid Tristan played the perfect support unit for the party. She never had the need to become visible or use damaging spells once.
Again thanks for the input! And don't worry Rhothaerill I'm not giving up on Tristan yet. Last night I was feeling a tad frustrated. The Diaries will continue!

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I agree that Tristan did pretty well in that fight. I also think she appears to be a well-designed concept character. Which means that the player had an idea in mind about what he wanted her to be able to do. In this case summon pseudonatural creatures to fight for her.
So regardless of the fact that Tristan's secondary effects are being highly effective, it must still be frustrating to have her main concept stymied at every turn, especially when the villains seem designed specifically to counter this tactic.

Rezdave |
I love playing Tristan but I'm really tired of being the only one not contributing (damage) in the big battles.
Sounds to me like Tristan is a valuable support character, rather than a blasting mage. Personally, in STAP I think her teleport alone would be enough reason for the party to appreciate her.
The question really is whether you as a Player feel the need to dish out quantifiable HP of damage, or if you are willing to play a character who contributes as you've said Tristan does, by enhancing the abilities of others, sucking up a few points of damage so they don't and so forth.
I also have to agree with the idea of summoning more weaker creatures rather than fewer powerful ones. There's got to be a nice middle range where they can have numbers but still deal a little damage.
More importantly, it sounds to me like Tristan's combination of conjuration, teleport and dimension door gives her the valuable ability to control the battlefield. She can place allies in tactical and flanking locations, cut off enemy routes of escape, corner or surround opponents to pin them into locations where they have to melee with hordes of summoned creatures while the PCs hit them with Reach, rush mobs of celestial beasties to suck up AoOs so that PCs with later actions don't ... the list of her potential contributions in this area is nearly endless.
There was a great column on the WotC site about manipulating and controlling the battlefield, under the "Tips & Tactics" heading IIRC. You should check it out.
I say read that, re-evaluate her capabilities vs. your needs and desires as a Player, and give her at least one more session. Personally, I'd be pleased to have her in my party.
HTH,
Rez

uzagi |

ok, some questions answered
- as for the Yuan-ti, yeah he must have been upgraded some (at least 1 level) and one cannot but wonder at his eccelctic choice of first (of a mximum three) level 5 spells. 'nuff said
- Since enchantment is an available spell for you, buy _by all means_ "feeblemind". This helps quite a bunch against spellcasters, and those that have at _least_ one SLA are counted as arcane casters ---> suffering a -4 penalty to their saves.
- Also buy "Truecast" (Complete Mage), a wonderful 1st level spell. The next spell you cast after invoking this (within 1 round) gains a +10 to spell-penetration. Then start writing scrolls of it ! Since it has a set duration (1 round), power (+10 to spell-penetration) and never prompts a save of its own, it works just as well as a scroll-cast spell.
Keep you scroll-quiver handy - our mage carries about a dozen copies of this at any time - at 25gp a scroll this is 'peanuts' compared to its effect. Cast it before launching a some major magic.... You will even stay invisible while doing so... then watch your primary magic punch through spell-resistance like a fireball through an igloo.
Should settle the SR-problem for the time being...
- Consider "Suspended Silence" (SC) - cast it on your summoned creature which sits right next to the BBEG. Watch him try to get of a spell to dismiss it. Mean combo...
- to free up 4th level spells, consider getting "Dimension Leap" (MoE) or "Dimension Hop" (SC) which work just as well to free yourself from a Grapple. Now you have an extra slot for Summon Monster IV, Orb of Cold or a Charm Monster
- for added "damage punch" consider taking a "reserve feat" from Complete Mage - gives you something to burn away pesky casters and footsoldiers with without wasting a spell.
Supernatural (Su) in nature (can be used almost anywhere ), no SR applicable and enough punch to use as an interruptor (readied for your opponent's spell-casting ) to drive his concentration check up through the ceiling from the damage taken while trying to cast dispel/dismissal/whatever.
If the caster takes 5D6 from a ranged acid (reserve), though with a ranged touch attack or 5D6 w. ref. save from a Flame Blast (reserve) that will usually add between 6- 15 points to the difficulty of his casting checks, besides the obvious damage....
- as for 6 players +2 cohorts. Same number of characters as with our group, and believe me, they have enough on their hands that the STAP as written is tough enough without further upgrading. What is your attrition rate throughout the path ?
As you might have noted, that Yuan-Ti was encountered like halfway (your words) through the ToD battle..... maybe there is just more ahead, for which powers and resources are needed ? Just wondering about the need to upgrade the Yuan-Ti
...then again, my group simply set the ship on fire with a fireball to the rigging - causing panic and confusion, then the melee fighters got "delivered" smack up on top of the Yuan-ti (thanks to a Dim-Door, and having delayed their actions to just after they go 'ported chopped the little snake to pieces by immediate full attacks from flanking positions =) ). It was fast, bloody and one of the more fun moments of the battle...

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- Since enchantment is an available spell for you, buy _by all means_ "feeblemind". This helps quite a bunch against spellcasters, and those that have at _least_ one SLA are counted as arcane casters ---> suffering a -4 penalty to their saves.
I love feeblemind. This would have been a great spell to have . . . it has to beat SR though . . . and that's a bit of a problem.
- Also buy "Truecast" (Complete Mage), a wonderful 1st level spell. The next spell you cast after invoking this (within 1 round) gains a +10 to spell-penetration. Then start writing scrolls of it ! Since it has a set duration (1 round), power (+10 to spell-penetration) and never prompts a save of its own, it works just as well as a scroll-cast spell.
Keep you scroll-quiver handy - our mage carries about a dozen copies of this at any time - at 25gp a scroll this is 'peanuts' compared to its effect. Cast it before launching a some major magic.... You will even stay invisible while doing so... then watch your primary magic punch through spell-resistance like a fireball through an igloo.
Should settle the SR-problem for the time being...
This spell I didn't know about this spell . . . but it sounds like a must have! I don't have the complete mage in front of me, but I wonder if I can have it made into a wand instead?
- Consider "Suspended Silence" (SC) - cast it on your summoned creature which sits right next to the BBEG. Watch him try to get of a spell to dismiss it. Mean combo...
Nice, but money is a bit of an issue for Tristan right now, I'm not sure she'd want to spend 50 gp every fight . . . but who knows, there's rumoured to be a gem mine near farshore . . . and I do have a kobold cohort . . . maybe Tristan can work out some deal where she gets cast off gem shavings for free if Churtle lends her expertiese in the mine. I'd need to make the deal acceptable to Churtle as well.
- to free up 4th level spells, consider getting "Dimension Leap" (MoE) or "Dimension Hop" (SC) which work just as well to free yourself from a Grapple. Now you have an extra slot for Summon Monster IV, Orb of Cold or a Charm Monster
I don't have any of the Eberron books (MoE=magic of Eberron right?) and I don't see "Dimension Hop" in the spell compendium. Those spells sound interesting though.
- for added "damage punch" consider taking a "reserve feat" from Complete Mage - gives you something to burn away pesky casters and footsoldiers with without wasting a spell.
Supernatural (Su) in nature (can be used almost anywhere ), no SR applicable and enough punch to use as an interruptor (readied for your opponent's spell-casting ) to drive his concentration check up through the ceiling from the damage taken...
I was looking at those feats for 15th level. Problem is that Tristan was designed before complete mage came out . . . had I had some of those options when I designed her I might have built Tristan different.
This is great input uzagi, thanks.

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I agree that Tristan did pretty well in that fight. I also think she appears to be a well-designed concept character. Which means that the player had an idea in mind about what he wanted her to be able to do. In this case summon pseudonatural creatures to fight for her.
So regardless of the fact that Tristan's secondary effects are being highly effective, it must still be frustrating to have her main concept stymied at every turn, especially when the villains seem designed specifically to counter this tactic.
This is the root cause of my frustrations with this battle. The fact that I was forced to use so many spells and the fact that I was unable to protect my cohort only made things worse.
I don't expect Tristan to kill everything. In fact I'm usually quite pleased to simply offer the assist. Wasting magic missiles to remove one mirror image and a fireball to get more really seems like a waste to me.

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- as for 6 players +2 cohorts. Same number of characters as with our group, and believe me, they have enough on their hands that the STAP as written is tough enough without further upgrading. What is your attrition rate throughout the path ?
(this got chopped somehow)
We haven't lost a single PC yet (although we've come dreadfully close on more then one occasion). Churtle was pounded to -6 in this encounter alone.
uzagi |

"Dimension Hop" is from PHB II - 5'/2 levels teleport (self or creature touched... might have some fun applications); LoS, LoE; instantaneous, Conj (teleport)
"Dimension Leap" is from Magic of Eberron, caster only + 55 lbs; 25 +5'2/levels Conjuration (teleport); nicely enough it does not require LoS, therefore it works out of a T-Rex's stomach....
Sorry for the confusion, I was 'quoting' from memory (didn't have the bookshelf on me ) , and the PHB-II is simply something I always tend to forget about as a resource.
While I can see the attraction of "Instant Quickening" I keep wondering if it is a valid "first pick" at level 12th, but that is something only you can decide.
Then again, the mage in our campaign went down the "item creator/debuffer road" (splitray (metamagic) enervations for the win !) and only summons the occassional undead for "bodily reconaissance" aka "trap detection" and to set up flankings. And he aimed for "Argent Dillentante" PrC in the end (don't ask - that character story would make a good novel)....
Good luck for part two of the ToD battle - it's going to be memorable

Jaatu Bronzescale |

As another option that you can take without having to teleport or otherwise acquire more spells, take a look at the Reserve Feats from Complete Mage and Complete Champion. These give you boosts to your caster level casting certain spells (and i think there are at least 3 different ones for conjuration summoning now) and an ability that you can use once a round based on the spell you keep in reserve.
the reserve feats dc's are based on the level of spell you are powering them with, so if you're using a 5th lvl summon spell to power the feat, then its saves are based on 5th level, rather than the minimum level that qualifies for the ability.
i know this is rather hard to follow, but if you have the books with you (which i don't at the moment) then it will make much more sense :)
the one i remember offhand is keepign a summon natures ally (possibly monster too) handy lets you summon an elemental of varying size based on spell level for spell level in rounds. you can only have one around at a time, but this would mean your 5th level summon spell can summon 1 creature every round for them to deal with and try to dispel/dismiss without ever using your summon spell up. when you actually want to summon your monster, then you'd go down to the 4th level one in reserve, and hopefully have exhausted their ability to poof your summoned friends.

Chris P |

the one i remember offhand is keepign a summon natures ally (possibly monster too) handy lets you summon an elemental of varying size based on spell level for spell level in rounds. you can only have one around at a time, but this would mean your 5th level summon spell can summon 1 creature every round for them to deal with and try to dispel/dismiss without ever using your summon spell up. when you actually want to summon your monster, then you'd go down to the 4th level one in reserve, and hopefully have exhausted their ability to poof your summoned friends.
I don't think it needs to be Summon Nture's Ally it can be any Cojuration (Summoning) spell of at least 4th level or higher to some an elemental. Granted that narrows it down to mostly Summon Nature's Ally and Summon Monster but hey. It summons a small elemental at first then if powered by a 6th level spell it's a medium elemental and I think finally with an 8th level spell it does a large elemental (do this from memory). If I remember correctly you basically need to reserve a Summon Monster spell of one level higher than the level needed to summon the appropriate sized elemental.

Ben Brenneman 22 |
I don't know if this has been has been covered already, but I have a player in my game has been creating havoc with non-creature-based conjuration spells: Web, Grease, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud. He's the ultimate in crowd control. At higher levels he'll get Evard's Tentacles, Cloudkill, etc. None of these allow spell resistance, and he's boosted his save DCs through the roof. If you are into the conjuration thing, you might want to check out some of these.
BTW: a couple of Webs can seriously muck up a caravel.

GentleGiant |

Just a couple of thoughts...
First, maybe I'm thinking back to 2nd edition, but doesn't being a specialist mage also prohibit you from using items that duplicate effects from your prohibited schools? I'm thinking of the Ring of Invisibility and the Illusion prohibited school.
Second, you may have 2 cohorts in your group, but the DM shouldn't beef up encounters because of that, since it's inherent in the PC's capabilities. Same goes for summoned creatures or animal companions/familiars.

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Just a couple of thoughts...
First, maybe I'm thinking back to 2nd edition, but doesn't being a specialist mage also prohibit you from using items that duplicate effects from your prohibited schools? I'm thinking of the Ring of Invisibility and the Illusion prohibited school.
Second, you may have 2 cohorts in your group, but the DM shouldn't beef up encounters because of that, since it's inherent in the PC's capabilities. Same goes for summoned creatures or animal companions/familiars.
Ya, I'm an old school gamer myself, I had to look that rule up. Specialists really only get into trouble when they use items that actually cast spells (like wands, scrolls, and staffs). Tristan has UMD thanks to her academy trained feat but she hasn't put serious ranks into it (I'm planning on getting my UMD skill high enough to allow my familiar to use wands).

Chris P |

Tristan has UMD thanks to her academy trained feat but she hasn't put serious ranks into it (I'm planning on getting my UMD skill high enough to allow my familiar to use wands).
I so would have never thought about that. I always forget that a familar uses the master's skill ranks if its better than their own. Granted you need a familar that can hold a wand and speak to make it work.

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I don't know if this has been has been covered already, but I have a player in my game has been creating havoc with non-creature-based conjuration spells: Web, Grease, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud. He's the ultimate in crowd control. At higher levels he'll get Evard's Tentacles, Cloudkill, etc. None of these allow spell resistance, and he's boosted his save DCs through the roof. If you are into the conjuration thing, you might want to check out some of these.
BTW: a couple of Webs can seriously muck up a caravel.
Web is a great spell, as is stinking cloud, grease, and cloudkill. Glitterdust and evard's tentacles were almost chosen but cut at the last moment because of more pressing concerns.
Thanks Jib, I’m glad Tristan comes across as a likeable character. Churtle isn’t quite an arcane character though; she has one level of duskblade and then she prestiged into dragon disciple. Why dragon disciple? That I can’t tell you . . . it’s just how I felt her character going. Turns out her love of sea shells (and the sea) comes from her bronze dragon blood. Bronze dragon (I’m guessing) is probably not the strongest choice for this campaign either.
As to familiar's ability to speak: remember all familiars can speak with their master by about 5th level, and then with others of it’s kind by 7th, I’m not sure a familiar would need to speak common to activate spells. I've never found any information on this strangely

Chris P |

As to familiar's ability to speak: remember all familiars can speak with their master by about 5th level, and then with others of it’s kind by 7th, I’m not sure a familiar would need to speak common to activate spells. I've never found any information on this strangely
My assumption is that the familar needs to be able to speak the words that the wand was crafted with. Certain animals can not reproduce certain sounds. Now if you crafted the wand specifically for the familar then its not an issue. Some familars can speak a language, such as the raven, so they can make the equivalent sounds.

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My assumption is that the familar needs to be able to speak the words that the wand was crafted with. Certain animals can not reproduce certain sounds. Now if you crafted the wand specifically for the familar then its not an issue. Some familars can speak a language, such as the raven, so they can make the equivalent sounds.
Well let's look at it this way: if a spell caster was polymorphed into a familiar like creature, could they still cast spells that only had a verbal component? I know a druid needs natural caster to use spells that have a verbal and somatic components . . . but what about just verbal? I mean the only thing it says about verbal components is "strong clear voice" and I'm thinking that even a mouse should be able to do that. However, that's a moot point, it's really the use of the skill that comes into question. 'Can a polymorphed rogue still activate a wand' sould be the real question.
Quite frankly I don't have the answer. It would be cool though. I think I'd be using specially made wands anyways. I'd love to have a couple of buff and heal spells for my familiar to use just in case.

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Sorry for the confusion, I was 'quoting' from memory (didn't have the bookshelf on me ) , and the PHB-II is simply something I always tend to forget about as a resource.
Thanks for clearing that up! Although the eberron one sounds better, I can't bring myself to buy into a new setting (or any WotC books right now – cancel dungeon and dragon mags . . . *grumble, grumble*)
While I can see the attraction of "Instant Quickening" I keep wondering if it is a valid "first pick" at level 12th, but that is something only you can decide.
I just love the flexibility these sudden feats give me. Once I get it, one of my highest level spells can now be quickened.
Good luck for part two of the ToD battle - it's going to be memorable
Thanks! I sure hope so!

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uzagi wrote:Sorry for the confusion, I was 'quoting' from memory (didn't have the bookshelf on me ) , and the PHB-II is simply something I always tend to forget about as a resource.Thanks for clearing that up! Although the eberron one sounds better, I can't bring myself to buy into a new setting (or any WotC books right now – cancel dungeon and dragon mags . . . *grumble, grumble*)
uzagi wrote:While I can see the attraction of "Instant Quickening" I keep wondering if it is a valid "first pick" at level 12th, but that is something only you can decide.I just love the flexibility these sudden feats give me. Once I get it, one of my highest level spells can now be quickened.
uzagi wrote:Good luck for part two of the ToD battle - it's going to be memorableThanks! I sure hope so!
I also like the "sudden" feats. That said, I don't really like Sudden Quicken because it has such a hefty cost in feats as prerequisites. To get the same basic effect, perhaps a metamagic rod of quickening is better? I will grant you they are as expensive as heck, but perhaps better overall for the character than spending so many feats.
I do like your character build. I think the master specialist is a better choice for a conjurer specialist than is alienist because of the school esoterica, but alienist is also a solid choice. Ironically enough, the conjurer I play in campaign my wife is running also chose Necromancy and Illusion as prohibited schools. I am actually building them using the Conjurer/Master Specialist/Argent Savant/Archmage build I suggested above. Plenty of summons, and a ton of damage dealing ability with all the force based spells.
Also, I really enjoy your campaign journal and look forward to reading it every couple of weeks as you update it. The second part of the battle for farshore is really awesome and gratifying in character if you have played from the beginning, so I look forward to hearing how that goes for your group.

Jeremy Mac Donald |

I also like the "sudden" feats. That said, I don't really like Sudden Quicken because it has such a hefty cost in feats as prerequisites. To get the same basic effect, perhaps a metamagic rod of quickening is better? I will grant you they are as expensive as heck, but perhaps better overall for the character than spending so many feats.
He says he is a bit coin shy at teh moment. The weakest Quicken rod is 65,000 gp and it only quickens 1st - 3rd level spells. The good quicken rods are in the region of 100,000 gp. This sort of thing really is just off the table until your really high level.

Belfur |

I don't know, but in our group all other players (eg. non-wizards) know very well, that the wizard's and cleric's spells are good for the whole group. Maybe your fellow PCs will give you some money so that you could buy some new support and battlefield control spells...in the ends it is their lives you are saving and most spells are not as expensive as the fighter's magic sword, are they. At least they sould borrow you some money and if they are really counting every coin given and taken maybe they agree to pay you for the trip so Sasserine, so that they can load up on new items, too, to make it a win-win situation.

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I also like the "sudden" feats. That said, I don't really like Sudden Quicken because it has such a hefty cost in feats as prerequisites. To get the same basic effect, perhaps a metamagic rod of quickening is better? I will grant you they are as expensive as heck, but perhaps better overall for the character than spending so many feats.
a metamagic rod would be ideal, but as Jeremy points out, my character is short on cash. Still, even if she was saving her money, as Jeremy also points out: those rods are very expensive. I doubt she'd see a quicken rod before twelfth level. As to the hefty requirements, the only feat I can't really see myself using is the sudden still feat. The rest, especially the maximise, empower, and extend, have seen a LOT of use. I love having the sudden silent as a contingency plan in case someone uses a silence spell. Being able to dispel without the need to speak is a huge relief. I’m thinking that perhaps the still might be useful while grappled . . . something that I hope never comes up (without my d-door spell anyways).
I do like your character build. I think the master specialist is a better choice for a conjurer specialist than is alienist because of the school esoterica, but alienist is also a solid choice. Ironically enough, the conjurer I play in campaign my wife is running also chose Necromancy and Illusion as prohibited schools. I am actually building them using the Conjurer/Master Specialist/Argent Savant/Archmage build I suggested above. Plenty of summons, and a ton of damage dealing ability with all the force based spells.
I love the complete mage, unfortunately it came out sometime after we started the SWW, but even if I had it at the time, and even though I have to admit that master specialist seems stronger then alienist, I think I would have kept my current class. I love the alienist for the RP. Tristan is going insane. That's great fun to play.
Also, I really enjoy your campaign journal and look forward to reading it every couple of weeks as you update it. The second part of the battle for farshore is really awesome and gratifying in character if you have played from the beginning, so I look forward to hearing how that goes for your group.
Thank you. I really do enjoy writing them . . . even if they are a bit time consuming.
I'm going to guess (from everyone's hints) that our old nemesis makes his return soon . . . I know he appears on the cover of dungeon 147 (and doesn't look too healthy) due to a spoiler ridden thread title a while back (I hate those), but as long as Vanthus' return isn't explicitly stated, it'll still come as a surprise I'm sure. I just hope we get the chance to put the boots to him this time (before he inevitably escapes)!
I don't know, but in our group all other players (eg. non-wizards) know very well, that the wizard's and cleric's spells are good for the whole group. Maybe your fellow PCs will give you some money so that you could buy some new support and battlefield control spells...in the ends it is their lives you are saving and most spells are not as expensive as the fighter's magic sword, are they. At least they sould borrow you some money and if they are really counting every coin given and taken maybe they agree to pay you for the trip so Sasserine, so that they can load up on new items, too, to make it a win-win situation.
While it is true that Tristan's spells have been just as instrumental in party survival as our cleric's spells, the party fighters quite often have to sacrifice their bodies to allow Tristan the chance to get her spells off. The great thing about D&D is that it's a team game. We really can't survive if we all work as individuals. For the most part this has meant that we've all paid for our own equipment (with the exception of a couple of wands of cure light wounds, that's something the whole group needs) and if the STAP hadn't been so stingy on spells thus far, I don't think that would have been a problem. I might run this by the group out of character and see what everyone thinks.

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I really think that the lack of new spells for a Wizard in the STAP is something the DM needs to address. There have been a few places you already went through that I think would have been great for that. The most obvious example is the treasure room in the shrine of Zotzillaha earlier in Tides of Dread. Since you're in the battle of farshore, I assume you actually ran into that room. 20,000 gp is the value on each of the items the aspect will let you choose from, and the adventure explicitly states that the DM should taylor those treasures for his party because of the lack of civilization to purchase them from. I think a spellbook with several spells in it may be the best item for a Wizard character at that point because of the lack of opportunity or location to buy and scribe spells. If he gives you a spellbook, a single read magic later and you can memorize them without any additional scribing costs.
All of that said, I think you have done a great job with your spell choices. I don't see a weak choice in the bunch, and I also take all the Summon Monster spells when I play a summoner build. So I think your spell book is very solid given the choices you have had to work with. Also, let me say that I didn't mean to sound as though I was criticizing your character class choices. I think the Alienist thing sound awesome from a role-playing perspective, and I know first hand how formidable an alienest can be because one of the major NPC villains in my wifes campaign is an alienist that was in "conjuration school" with my character in her campaign, and the sheer scariness of facing creatures from the far realm has been amazing for me as a player in encounters with my old classmate and friend. Further, although I prefer the master specialist I know playing an alienist would be fun. So if anything I want to congratulate you on playing a great character concept. Again, I look forward to reading your journals and thanks again for sharing so much about your guys campaign. There are gags of ideas I can't wait to pilfer for my own campaign. I will be running the STAP for a new group fairly soon. I've already run it once through the 11th adventure, and eagerly await the last one. All my players have loved it so much they have told their friends about it, so now I have a second group begging me to run it.
Thanks again for the insights into your game.