I'm leaving town and only have one session left with my gaming group. They've been playing Savage Tide and have just hit 17th level at the end of Into the Maw. They're horrible power-gamers, and nothing has really been able to even hurt them. So I decided that for our last session, I'm just going to throw Demogorgon at them. The full CR 33 Demonomicon of Iggwilv version. And the scary part? They might beat him.
It sounds glorious. Win or lose for the party, it is bound to be a very memoriable fight.
I was sort of disappointed myself that Big D didn't have something to throw at the party coming out of Divided's Ire. Vanthus is sent there as a lure, and then ONE killer is sent to dispatch them. Having to flee a huge horde of Retrievers would be nice ... or the DoI Demogorgon. ;) As you probably already know, most optimized, experienced pc groups can often cleave through a single opponent well outside their CR with comparative ease. A few minions make all the difference ... but, either way, it's an interesting fight you'll have on your hands, I'm sure. Be sure to give us the results.
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I'm leaving town and only have one session left with my gaming group. They've been playing Savage Tide and have just hit 17th level at the end of Into the Maw. They're horrible power-gamers, and nothing has really been able to even hurt them. So I decided that for our last session, I'm just going to throw Demogorgon at them. The full CR 33 Demonomicon of Iggwilv version. And the scary part? They might beat him.
With Demo, it's all about minions. I would have him Gate in Belcharesk and stat Belcharesk out at no less than a CR 30 himself. It says he is an elite advanced Balor Fighter 4. I would adjust his base HD up to 26 then add on 4 levels of fighter. Also, the DoI version of Demo can summon 90 HD of Demons per day. So have him bring in 4 more Balors on top of a gated in Belcharesk to help. He probably could also gate in St. Kargoth the betrayer, who is an advanced Death Knight that will appear in the final adventure as well. Beyond that, make some custom built nastys to help him out. A half fiend Warlock, Ascpects like Bagromar and Gorgant. Perhaps toss in a Barlgura with 18 levels of Cleric or something to provide Demos team with Buffs and Healing. Give him treasure to boost his powers, remembering he can make any item as though he has the requisite feats and spells. Then in the fight go no holds barred and work them over like crazy.
As I recall, you had a similar problem with Dragotha in AoW, and managed to make Kyuss tough enough to get a TPK. A CR 33 Demo with all his minions should be no less devestating in terms of total power than the advance Kyuss you made. The weakness of a power gamer is a DM who uses the same tactics. Best of luck and let us know how it goes.
I think minions kind of wreck the whole experiment - and this is something of a 'final good bye - oh and could we have taken down Demogorgon?' type thing. Just have the players go mano a mano with the Double D and lets see who comes out on top.
And when you find a new group make sure their all newbs who don't yet know how to power game.
This the same group that spanked Dragotha in, like, one round? I'm sure I missed it, but I can only guess what they did to Kyuss.
Oh yeah. A group of these nutcases versus the CR 33 Demogorgon? It might just be a fair fight...
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I think minions kind of wreck the whole experiment - and this is something of a 'final good bye - oh and could we have taken down Demogorgon?' type thing. Just have the players go mano a mano with the Double D and lets see who comes out on top.
And when you find a new group make sure their all newbs who don't yet know how to power game.
What I'm driving at, is if you look at Demo's abilitys, as a CR 33 most of his most powerful abilities involve bringing in minions. He can summon 90 HD of demons per day. He can cast Gate 3 times per day. After that he is a pure melee nightmare. If Office Ninja's party is the same crew that dismantled Dragotha instantly, then they are going to have a plan that involves Demo trying to get to them while they blast him to oblivion with Time Stop and Delayed Blast Fireball energy admixture spells and the like. Without Minions, Demo is too vulnerable to a "kite" strategy where the party hits and runs, hits and runs etc.
All that said, if Demo can engage them, then he is one fearsome melee threat. Still, if you don't let him use his abilties to bring in help, he isn't a true CR 33 as those abilities make up a significant portion of his power.
Yup, same crew.
I was thinking of just having Demogorgon hurl blasphemy after blasphemy at them while pummeling the evil warlock/ur-priest/eldritch disciple to death.
Even then, he might fail to beat someone's SR on a blasphemy, in which case they'll all start gating/time stopping/etc.
The aforementioned warlock/ur-priest/eldritch disciple is planning on using a candle of invocation to summon the DoI version of Dagon (his patron) for help. I'm thinking of having Dagon just awkwardly say, "Um... I don't know you... wrong number."
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Yup, same crew.
I was thinking of just having Demogorgon hurl blasphemy after blasphemy at them while pummeling the evil warlock/ur-priest/eldritch disciple to death.
Even then, he might fail to beat someone's SR on a blasphemy, in which case they'll all start gating/time stopping/etc.
The aforementioned warlock/ur-priest/eldritch disciple is planning on using a candle of invocation to summon the DoI version of Dagon (his patron) for help. I'm thinking of having Dagon just awkwardly say, "Um... I don't know you... wrong number."
That's awesome. Better yet, have Dagon turn on his upstart follower and deprive him of his divine spells. Or have Dagon join in the fight against the PC's, with the Ur-Priest unable to injure Dagon or turning on his comrads and helping his patron help Demo. The blasphemy thing is a good idea because Demo can get it off every round and use his second full round of actions to greater teleport back out of their range, then rinse wash repeat until some of them drop. Demo's caster level is 25, so as long as he gets through their SR, he should annihilate them without them even getting a saving throw.
The aforementioned warlock/ur-priest/eldritch disciple is planning on using a candle of invocation to summon the DoI version of Dagon (his patron) for help. I'm thinking of having Dagon just awkwardly say, "Um... I don't know you... wrong number."
Hee hee! That's hilarious. As a player, I would be sooooo angry at myself for picking Dagon as my patron.
Even story wise, is seems like a logical point for a climax. To be honest, the next to parts involve a lot of "talking". That's not a bad thing--rather it's pretty cool--but this opportunity affords you the chance to bring Demogorgon's wrath down upon any that would invade his realm, Divided Ire or otherwise. Plus, I always hear about CRs breaking down at high levels, so it might not be that big of a factor.
My advice: have Demogorgon make himself the master of his domain. Give him every terrain-oriented advantage. That is, let's say the PCs are finished chatting with Orgosh in Area 33, and just before he's begun to clue the PCs in about Demogorgon's weakness, there's a massive explosion from Area 32. Perhaps the statue of Demogorgon in Area 32 has manifested into the true form of Demogorgon, and he's infuriated with both the bullywug lich for his betrayal and the PCs for their consistent interference in his plans. Perhaps he could rip through the prison walls, chasing the PCs through the prison, trying to get at them. This could make for an exciting encounter, and the undead prove to be quite a variable. If you prefer not to have Demogorgon just blast through the prison walls to get at his foes (since he is huge, and the walls are only ten feet wide), you could widen the passages in this section.
Another good place for an encounter would be over the pit of lava in Area 15. (Again, I'd widen the bridge a bit for Demogorgon, or just give him a fly speed.) This area screams for a final confrontation, and with no shortage of allies for the Prince of Demons, the PCs could easily find themselves running all around the map to keep from getting surrounded. Plus, the addition of the magma drake can make this even more vicious. If I had to do it, I'd hold the showdown here.
Hee hee! That's hilarious. As a player, I would be sooooo angry at myself for picking Dagon as my patron.
The aforementioned warlock/ur-priest/eldritch disciple is planning on using a candle of invocation to summon the DoI version of Dagon (his patron) for help. I'm thinking of having Dagon just awkwardly say, "Um... I don't know you... wrong number."
And then have Dagon say to Demogorgon "I am sorry about disturbing you my friend. Have fun!" ~Dagon glares at the Ur-Priest~
Even story wise, is seems like a logical point for a climax. ... Another good place for an encounter would be over the pit of lava in Area 15. (Again, I'd widen the bridge a bit for Demogorgon, or just give him a fly speed.) This area screams for a final confrontation, and with no shortage of allies for the Prince of Demons, the PCs could easily find themselves running all around the map to keep from getting surrounded. Plus, the addition of the magma drake can make this even more vicious. If I had to do it, I'd hold the showdown here.
Aye that is definitely climactic. I can almost hear the whisper carrying across the chasm now, 'Run. You fools!'
Creative Director
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You might want to wait until you see "Prince of Demons" in Dungeon #150. Not only is there a lot of Demogorgon-related stuff going on in there... but Dagon's got a pretty sizable role as well.
Plus, if you're allowing your PCs access to every book and all that... it's only fair to do the same for the Prince of Demons! Outfitting him with a few million gp in gear certainly levels the playing field...
heheh, that "dying womans leather ensemble", from the netheril adventure.. basically a leather armor giving iummunity to all elements.
Or perhaps a dr killdrum wand.. (same place) -> sacrifice hp for a elemental spell. Great to have with fast healing.. (1hp/hd of damage). Grants immunity.
Guess he could be handed a crown too.. a crown that used to be a sor15/acm5 mortal.. now casting spells as the master desires.(simulcra given new form)
Or something granting quickened anti-magic sphere at at will. That would be nasty...