I never imagined TMNT was that popular. We only played for a year because my gaming group designed our own gaming system for a horror campaign....
Anyway, I had a bipedal goldfish who wore a Self Contained Out-of-water Breathing Apparatus: SCOBA gear. He used to get enraged when people called it SCUBA.
I think GGG and Lilith are on to something here! I'd totally run some good ole TMNT action...in fact the thought of that just now made my heart swell and my blood rush all about. Soooo good the TMNT (and other strangeness of course). It's been far too long.You know Nick we should just have our own WereCon."All Cabbage, All the Time!"
Games run by werecabbages - awesome! :P
Dude, I'm running TMNT! ;) You're running the incredibly epic fifty-four hour Hell's Kitchen Congress or something right? Which reminds me, have you had a chance to write it yet?
Volunteer archdevils need to know,
;) GGG
I think GGG and Lilith are on to something here! I'd totally run some good ole TMNT action...in fact the thought of that just now made my heart swell and my blood rush all about. Soooo good the TMNT (and other strangeness of course). It's been far too long.You know Nick we should just have our own WereCon."All Cabbage, All the Time!"
Games run by werecabbages - awesome! :P
Dude, I'm running TMNT! ;) You're running the incredibly epic fifty-four hour Hell's Kitchen Congress or something right? Which reminds me, have you had a chance to write it yet?
Volunteer archdevils need to know,
;) GGG
Ha! I've been chipping away at it! I'll have plenty o' info for you and the other volunteer devils, demons (and those boring angels too) come July!
If you run TMNT, I'm so there!
Start your boxing and gymnastics lessons now....;)
An extra attack per melee, a slew of other physical bonuses and Knockout/Stun on 20...yeah, I'll think I'll definitely take up boxing!
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I'm playing in a Heroes Unlimited game (crosing over with RIFTs pretty soon I hear). It's great fun though a ridiculously unbalanced game system IMHO for intermidiate - advanced gamers it's very do-able.
I used to play Champions and have the current Champs HERO syst rules. It's great if you have a pure math or Engineering degree (some of us in my game do) but it's a heck of a lot of back work I've found. Uber flexible and very fair though
I'm playing in a Heroes Unlimited game (crosing over with RIFTs pretty soon I hear). It's great fun though a ridiculously unbalanced game system IMHO for intermidiate - advanced gamers it's very do-able.
Our Champions GM used to talk about Heroes Unlimited, I wish I had a chance to play.
I used to play Champions and have the current Champs HERO syst rules. It's great if you have a pure math or Engineering degree (some of us in my game do) but it's a heck of a lot of back work I've found. Uber flexible and very fair though
Yah, and since I've stopped playing HERO I have found some good software for designing heroes. I remember sitting hunched over characters for half a day eking every last point of juice out.
Of course, none of us had math degrees, but we all had heads for numbers.
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My experiences with these games are a little less broad than some of you. I never got the full experience of playing in HERO system or MSH, but my favorite and longest-running supers games were Aberrant. I loved the system and the setting, and bought its follow-up Mutants & Masterminds, too. That was a little clunky and tended to favor defense; I hope they worked those issues with the 2nd Ed.
Aberrant had a good character creation system and combat system, and I was fairly satisfied with the rules for gaining experience, too. My most memorable campaign was hunting down the symbiote (Venom-like), but battling Devus Mal (Magneto-esque BBEG) was a blast. Mutants & Masterminds was also fun, in which we played a new inexperienced group hunting down the same symbiote controlling a previous character.
I had a good time with BESM 2nd Ed, playing a crab-tank driver. I did not have a good time with MSH, perhaps because the GM had an unhealthy obsession with Black Cat. On second thought, that is definitely the reason.
Edit: Logue, you look a bit like a Finnigan (sp?) boxer.
Start your boxing and gymnastics lessons now....;)An extra attack per melee, a slew of other physical bonuses and Knockout/Stun on 20...yeah, I'll think I'll definitely take up boxing!
Sorry Nick, it's all pregen and you're the freakin' stable girl. ;)
-The Great Green God
Karma Police
My experiences with these games are a little less broad than some of you. I never got the full experience of playing in HERO system or MSH, but my favorite and longest-running supers games were Aberrant. I loved the system and the setting, and bought its follow-up Mutants & Masterminds, too. That was a little clunky and tended to favor defense; I hope they worked those issues with the 2nd Ed.
Aberrant had a good character creation system and combat system, and I was fairly satisfied with the rules for gaining experience, too. My most memorable campaign was hunting down the symbiote (Venom-like), but battling Devus Mal (Magneto-esque BBEG) was a blast. Mutants & Masterminds was also fun, in which we played a new inexperienced group hunting down the same symbiote controlling a previous character.
I had a good time with BESM 2nd Ed, playing a crab-tank driver. I did not have a good time with MSH, perhaps because the GM had an unhealthy obsession with Black Cat. On second thought, that is definitely the reason.
BESM huh? You sure it wasn't an unhealthy obsession with girl's underwear? ;) I'll fess up to owning it and liking the system (even as Tri-stat). But that's it. No unhealthy obessions for this little green dragon.... Anyhow, I also own Aeon (it's Aeon dang it not Trinity - Aeon I tell you!) and Aberrant but rarely get the chance to play. Still you gotta love your Storyteller whatever the setting.
-GGG
Champions/HERO 4th Ed is the only super hero system I've gamed a lot with. Too often in other rules systems (MSH, Palladium, etc.), I found either "you can't do that" or "this is so powerful that someone who has it is much more combat effective than someone who doesn't." HERO, on the other hand, lets you create any concept you come up with, in any type of campaign, with judicious application of the basic rules, and is fairly well balanced. Once you understand it, it's pretty easy to scale upward or downward on the power level, as well. Heck, after learning HERO, I thought GURPS was restrictive.
Character creation can take a while, and there is a steep initial learning curve, but at least it's not Rolemaster! That's a system for the engineers/mathematicians. Besides, it's fun pulling out 30d6 when the BBEG hits a high-powered brick and watching the player go pale.
Champions/HERO 4th Ed is the only super hero system I've gamed a lot with. Too often in other rules systems (MSH, Palladium, etc.), I found either "you can't do that" or "this is so powerful that someone who has it is much more combat effective than someone who doesn't."
I think Marvel Super Heroes allowed you to do whatever your character is capable of doing. In that regard, it was very true to the Marvel Universe feel. There is a distinct difference between DC and Marvel; DC tanks (Wonder Woman, Superman, etc) as an example have virtually limitless strength. Not so with even the strongest Marvel heroes (Thor, Hercules, Colossus, etc.), with the exception of perhaps Hulk, Marvel tanks have a finite limit on their capabilities.
Thats not to say that the system isnt flawed (and it is), just that in my opinion, it was a good mix of easy-to-play mechanics and close-to-comic gaming experiences.
There is a distinct difference between DC and Marvel; DC tanks (Wonder Woman, Superman, etc) as an example have virtually limitless strength. Not so with even the strongest Marvel heroes (Thor, Hercules, Colossus, etc.), with the exception of perhaps Hulk, Marvel tanks have a finite limit on their capabilities.
In my world the dial goes to 11!
-The Limitless Great Green God
Champions/HERO 4th Ed is the only super hero system I've gamed a lot with. Too often in other rules systems (MSH, Palladium, etc.), I found either "you can't do that" or "this is so powerful that someone who has it is much more combat effective than someone who doesn't."I think Marvel Super Heroes allowed you to do whatever your character is capable of doing. In that regard, it was very true to the Marvel Universe feel. There is a distinct difference between DC and Marvel; DC tanks (Wonder Woman, Superman, etc) as an example have virtually limitless strength. Not so with even the strongest Marvel heroes (Thor, Hercules, Colossus, etc.), with the exception of perhaps Hulk, Marvel tanks have a finite limit on their capabilities.
Thats not to say that the system isnt flawed (and it is), just that in my opinion, it was a good mix of easy-to-play mechanics and close-to-comic gaming experiences.
When I said "you can't do that" I was talking about fitting your own concept into the rules (rather than picking from a set selection of choices). "Your character can do anything you design it to do" rather than "your character can do whatever the pregenerated design lets you do.". Quite literally, HERO system can model any concept (from large scale to little quirks), once you figure out which game mechanic(s) to apply.
I don't think I have seen the HERO system, but in clarifying your point, ya, I agree with you in that regard. Marvel does break down when you start talking about mind-boggling feats that we would associate with gods (e.g. Superman). I think it lends itself to the middle-of-the-road hero stuff.
I miss the Marvel days....some of my fondest memories come from that game.
Champions/HERO 4th Ed is the only super hero system I've gamed a lot with. Too often in other rules systems (MSH, Palladium, etc.), I found either "you can't do that" or "this is so powerful that someone who has it is much more combat effective than someone who doesn't." HERO, on the other hand, lets you create any concept you come up with, in any type of campaign, with judicious application of the basic rules, and is fairly well balanced. Once you understand it, it's pretty easy to scale upward or downward on the power level, as well. Heck, after learning HERO, I thought GURPS was restrictive.
Character creation can take a while, and there is a steep initial learning curve, but at least it's not Rolemaster! That's a system for the engineers/mathematicians. Besides, it's fun pulling out 30d6 when the BBEG hits a high-powered brick and watching the player go pale.
Word, man.
Aunt May as a player could never kill Galactus with a butter knife in my game: Aunt May would never amass 1,000 Karma.
Now, if she were to come across a Cosmic Cube.....
That was a "What if " issue - Aunt May = Golden Oldy
It's Sad that I know stuff like that
When I said "you can't do that" I was talking about fitting your own concept into the rules (rather than picking from a set selection of choices). "Your character can do anything you design it to do" rather than "your character can do whatever the pregenerated design lets you do.". Quite literally, HERO system can model any concept (from large scale to little quirks), once you figure out which game mechanic(s) to apply.
He's right about the Hero System - it's the most customizeable system ever devised, although Mutants & Masterminds is a pretty darn good 2nd choice - if you value customization most of all. M & M is, however, much simpler than Hero. However, despite Hero System's versatility & complexity, it doesn't do *absolutely everything* perfectly, for example, making a character with Gravity Powers in Hero can be a real pain.
You've also got to watch what you're players create using the Hero System very carefully. Hero is a power-gamers wet dream with complex accounting & tax deductible credits. The higher the power level the greater the complexity. It can be a lot of work to run a HERO campaign, but it can be lots of fun too. It's *especially good* for low & middle power level campaigns, like the pulp-to-WW2 era one I've been running a PC in for years (about to come to an end soon, too, I'm sorry to say - but it's been awesome).
If you want to run Silver Surfer / Legion of Super Heroes or cosmic powerhouse campaign - I'd save myself a few early gray hairs and use M & M 2 for that. It's much more inherently balanced & easier to run than Hero.
My .02.
- FM
When I said "you can't do that" I was talking about fitting your own concept into the rules (rather than picking from a set selection of choices). "Your character can do anything you design it to do" rather than "your character can do whatever the pregenerated design lets you do.". Quite literally, HERO system can model any concept (from large scale to little quirks), once you figure out which game mechanic(s) to apply.He's right about the Hero System - it's the most customizeable system ever devised, although Mutants & Masterminds is a pretty darn good 2nd choice - if you value customization most of all. M & M is, however, much simpler than Hero. However, despite Hero System's versatility & complexity, it doesn't do *absolutely everything* perfectly, for example, making a character with Gravity Powers in Hero can be a real pain.
What specific effect did you have in mind? Telekinesis (Affects entire object, limited effect {only to push/hold things to the ground})? Missile Deflection? Flight Useable Against Others?
You've also got to watch what you're players create using the Hero System very carefully. Hero is a power-gamers wet dream with complex accounting & tax deductible credits. The higher the power level the greater the complexity. It can be a lot of work to run a HERO campaign, but it can be lots of fun too. It's *especially good* for low & middle power level campaigns, like the pulp-to-WW2 era one I've been running a PC in for years (about to come to an end soon, too, I'm sorry to say - but it's been awesome).
That's where Active Point (and other) limits come in. You don't have to allow a limit-busting character or power into the game. Granted, you can run an "unlimited" game, if you don't mind the potential for balance problems (both within the group and when dealing with the villains). It can even be fun.
That's where Active Point (and other) limits come in. You don't have to allow a limit-busting character or power into the game. Granted, you can run an "unlimited" game, if you don't mind the potential for balance problems (both within the group and when dealing with the villains). It can even be fun.
Lot's of fun.
I've never allowed a game without active point limits as a GM because my games always had people who were normal humans, but I was a player in an unlimited campaign, two actually. The GM handled us with grace and even genius despite our absurd power gaming (our "wet dreams" -forever man). He knew every limitation at the table and kept us honest to our builds and a few times we had players ask permission to rebuild their characters when they realized their limitations were limiting them a little too much.
Of all the games I've stopped playing, Hero System is the one I'd like most to get back to again.
And to those who say you can't do everything with Hero System, I have never seen anything that couldn't be done, although I have had to ask for help or suggestions a few times because I couldn't figure out how to do it myself.
What specific effect did you have in mind? Telekinesis (Affects entire object, limited effect {only to push/hold things to the ground})? Missile Deflection? Flight Useable Against Others?
How about what Gravity actually does, which is make a person or object heavier? In M & M, 1 rank of Gravity Power allows you to double a person or objects weight. More ranks means more doublings. If a brick (or whatever) carrying capacity is exceeded, then he'll be slowed or stopped entirely. If his weight exceeds the capacity of the surface he's standing on to hold him, then it will collapse under him. The power is better purchased as an area affect.
What specific effect did you have in mind? Telekinesis (Affects entire object, limited effect {only to push/hold things to the ground})? Missile Deflection? Flight Useable Against Others?How about what Gravity actually does, which is make a person or object heavier? In M & M, 1 rank of Gravity Power allows you to double a person or objects weight. More ranks means more doublings. If a brick (or whatever) carrying capacity is exceeded, then he'll be slowed or stopped entirely. If his weight exceeds the capacity of the surface he's standing on to hold him, then it will collapse under him. The power is better purchased as an area affect.
HERO doesn't use that exact mechanic, but the Telekinesis above comes pretty close (and can be taken as an area effect with the Area Effect advantage), without the need to check carrying capacity as a simple STR vs. STR effect. You could also go with Density Increase (Useable Against Others) with a linked STR Drain or Supress, which is even closer, but more cumbersome (pun intended) mechanics-wise.
HERO will also let you do other things with gravity powers, like suddenly increase gravity on thrown objects and bullets (Missile Deflection), reverse gravity on others to fling them upward (Flight Useable Against Others), or any other gravity-themed effect you can think of. You are not locked into the designers' concepts of gravity powers.
If you want to change something's weight why can't you use Transform? Your GM must agree to your build, or you write it up yourself if you are the GM, but I don't see why you can't do it, even as an area attack, cumulative, whatever you want. Use good judgment about how much the mass will increase (I don't have the rules here so I can't do more than speculate) and go for it.
Everyone's gonna need an accurate character description to decide when they can no longer lift themselves, and it's gonna take a lot of active points but...
Transform will work if you want the effect to be long-term, as opposed to short-term/concentration. It's a bit ugly in execution, though.
I still think Telekinesis is the simplest way to go. It also avoids sticky considerations like Power Defense...
Sometimes I hate it when inspiration strikes. I pulled out my Champions 4th Ed book and came up with a Gravity Power multipower (for a high-end superhero game). I probably won't ever get a chance to use it!
60 Gravity Powers (75pt Multipower; Limited: Reduced Range (75") {-1/4})
3u 15" Flight (Useable Against Others (not vs. Flight) {+1}, Ranged {+1/2}, Increased END: x2 END {-1/2}, Limited: Only to go up/down or hover {-1})
4u Missile Deflection (Up to bullets/shrapnel, +9 to roll, useable at range {+1}; Reduced END: 1/2 END {+1/4}, Costs END {-1/2})
4u 50 STR Telekinesis (Affects entire object {-1/4}, Limited: Only to push/hold things to the ground {-1/2})
4u 25 STR Telekinesis (Area: Hex {+1/2}, x4 radius (4") {+1/2}, Affects entire object {-1/4}, Limited: Only to push/hold things to the ground {-1/2})
For a 60pt (regular) version, use 12" Flight, +5 to roll, 40 STR, and 20 STR (at 60" range).
Additional possible powers: an Area Effect version of Flight and Suppress vs. Flight.
Well, at least you used your multipower well, you would not believe the number of people who give me character sheets with all their offense and defense powers in ultra slot multipowers then wonder why their hero gets their butt handed to them because they can only activate one at a time; sheesh. I have never seen a gm allow starting powers with more than 60 active points, but was an interesting read.
to really stop someone; you could drain or dispell movement powers; but what I have found is very affective is draining intelligence; most bricks have less than 15 int and less than 20 power defense so something like a 6d6 or 8d6 drain to intelligence will leave them a blubbering idiot that pretty much can only sit down and drool as just about any event will have to much gravity on the brain hehe weighty matters so to speak; lol
you know; on another site I started a pbp heroes game; 7 peeps screamed they were interested; only got two character sheets; I reviewed them and sent them back with things they need to correct and a small analysis of their characters playablility; but after 3 weeks I have not heard a peep; sigh, maybe it is just the summertime blues. i find that many people just dont make balanced characters; by this I mean that a hero needs to be versatile and the hero theme tends to make heroes generalists. A hero needs to be effective in many different situations against many types of villians. Most people hand me character sheets that would be much better villians than heroes; meaning villians tend to be specialists; they do one or two things very well as that is their shtick.
Well, at least you used your multipower well, you would not believe the number of people who give me character sheets with all their offense and defense powers in ultra slot multipowers then wonder why their hero gets their butt handed to them because they can only activate one at a time; sheesh.
I usually stick with attacks and powers that can't (usually) be used while attacking in a multipower. Even with a normal multipower slot, trying to do more than one thing at once is pretty weak unless the GM allows a large pool compared to the slots (say 120 pt pool and 60 pt slots).
For this character I would probably go with a Personal Gravity Manipulation Elemental Control, an armored costume (another 6-12 PD and ED), and some martial arts to round him out. I may even go with Normal Characteristic Maxima as a disadvantage, depending on the game.
22 EC: Personal Gravity Manipulation
23a) Density Increase (x64 Mass, +30 STR, +6 PD, +6 ED, -6" KB; 0 END {+1/2})
23b) 30" Superleap (0 END {+1/2})
12 Force Field (+6 PD, +6 ED; 0 END {+1/2}, Linked to Density Increase {-1/2})
I have never seen a gm allow starting powers with more than 60 active points, but was an interesting read.
Some GMs will run a 375 starting point game (150 base + 225 disadvantages) with a 75 Active Point starting limit. High powered games can be more appealing to the comic book fans, since they can play heroes with fully developed powers instead of minor heroes/sidekicks. The Active Point breakdown for the Missile Deflection above works better in a 75 pt Multipower, which is why I used that as the primary.
I guess I was waiting for the right Campaign setting.... Hmmm: Pathfinder--Fantasy Hero....
If you need some help converting Pathfinder to Hero, let me know. My Hero-Fu is strong.
to really stop someone; you could drain or dispell movement powers; but what I have found is very affective is draining intelligence; most bricks have less than 15 int and less than 20 power defense so something like a 6d6 or 8d6 drain to intelligence will leave them a blubbering idiot that pretty much can only sit down and drool as just about any event will have to much gravity on the brain hehe weighty matters so to speak; lol
That's what the Flight (Useable Against Others) is for. Unless the brick has Flight or ranged attacks, they're screwed (no defense to reduce the effect, no STR vs. STR to resist). Lift them up about 5" and keep them hovering while everyone else takes pot shots at them (or just ignores them). If you get bored, you can bounce them into the ground a few times from 20" or 30" up. Not to mention that the base Drain is a touch power, which means a 6d6 to 8d6 Drain at range is 90-120 Active Points.
to really stop someone; you could drain or dispell movement powers; but what I have found is very affective is draining intelligence; most bricks have less than 15 int and less than 20 power defense so something like a 6d6 or 8d6 drain to intelligence will leave them a blubbering idiot that pretty much can only sit down and drool as just about any event will have to much gravity on the brain hehe weighty matters so to speak; lolThat's what the Flight (Useable Against Others) is for. Unless the brick has Flight or ranged attacks, they're screwed (no defense to reduce the effect, no STR vs. STR to resist). Lift them up about 5" and keep them hovering while everyone else takes pot shots at them (or just ignores them). If you get bored, you can bounce them into the ground a few times from 20" or 30" up. Not to mention that the base Drain is a touch power, which means a 6d6 to 8d6 Drain at range is 90-120 Active Points.
Doesn't the brick get Power Defense against that? I can't remember.
Also, in the case of that gravity attack above, the Transform could be non-permanent. It could be modified as you like to tailor it, BUT as you said, it would be messy.
yes, power defense works, but it is rare than any has it and they usually dont have very much.
Usable Against Others
This Advantage allows the character to use a Power against another character. Unlike the Advantage Usable by Others, the character who possesses this Power will always be in control and must pay the END costs for using it...
Usable Against Others requires an Attack Roll against unwilling opponents, and has no range. In addition there must be a reasonably common set of defenses which will cancel out the attack...
Power Defense applies vs. Drain, but not vs. Flight (Usable Against Others). The only defense to the power I detailed above is to have Flight (you use your own Flight power to adjust to the change in gravitational orientation, under this special effect).
Depending on the group (and the opponents they face), Power Defense (like Flash Defense or Mental Defense) can be either common or rare. However, it's relatively cheap points-wise, while Drain is relatively expensive.
Usable Against Others
This Advantage allows the character to use a Power against another character. Unlike the Advantage Usable by Others, the character who possesses this Power will always be in control and must pay the END costs for using it...
Usable Against Others requires an Attack Roll against unwilling opponents, and has no range. In addition there must be a reasonably common set of defenses which will cancel out the attack...
Power Defense applies vs. Drain, but not vs. Flight (Usable Against Others). The only defense to the power I detailed above is to have Flight (you use your own Flight power to adjust to the change in gravitational orientation, under this special effect).
Depending on the group (and the opponents they face), Power Defense (like Flash Defense or Mental Defense) can be either common or rare. However, it's relatively cheap points-wise, while Drain is relatively expensive.
Yah, I remember, it's just been a few years, or 10.
yeah, but dispel is cheap; most peoples movement power can be completly wiped out with a dispel which is 3pts per d6 so 20d6 dispell for 60 points.
draining even a little speed is very effective also, most people have very little int; draining int or str to ) effectively stops a large number of targets also.
Gravity increase can also be created with ENTANGLE if scripted with the right (custom) modifiers it could give us exactly what we are looking for.
yeah, but dispel is cheap; most peoples movement power can be completly wiped out with a dispel which is 3pts per d6 so 20d6 dispell for 60 points.
draining even a little speed is very effective also, most people have very little int; draining int or str to ) effectively stops a large number of targets also.
Yah I had a lot of fun with my last character, Killex, who had time powers and drained speed.
I am looking for PBP games for the Marvel Superhero TSR game, since my gaming group have not interest on superhero games I have to play alone so my only hope is on the net. Thanks to anyone who can give me an advice.
I am looking for PBP games for the Marvel Superhero TSR game, since my gaming group have not interest on superhero games I have to play alone so my only hope is on the net. Thanks to anyone who can give me an advice.
I feel your pain.
Its D&D or its nothing at our gaming table, and it makes me sad. :(
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Here's my quick list of superhero RPG recommendations.
1) For a quick pickup game where you don't want to spend a lot of time learning the rules and want a great game experience, you cannot do better than Marvel Super Heroes (the original version). From a learning curve to gaming experience, this may actually be the best game ever. It's quick, easy, and adaptable. My group of D&D players, who hadn't even looked in the book, were playing within minutes.
2) A close second to the original MSH by TSR is the Marvel Superheroes Adventure Game, also by TSR. The rules are quick, easy, and the players decide how "important" each action is by determining which card value they want to use on an action. The "trump" feature can lead to some wild battles. This rules set was the basis for the second best, and second longest, superhero campaign I have ever run. It's based on the SAGA rules for Dragonlance, with the exception that it works. How do you defeat a Dragonlance dragon in HtH in SAGA? You don't. You use arrows.
3) The single best and longest superhero campaign I have ever run was a DC Heroes (2nd/3rd edition) game. The 2nd edition cleaned up the bizarre gadget system from the 1st edition and created a rules set that could handle everything from street level to cosmic without batting an eye and without ever feeling like it had "lost" something. The Hero Point system, and the subsequent ability to spend hero points to affect the environment, is one of the most ingenious systems ever created. So ingenious that it has been often imitated. The section on how to run an RPG is one of the single best GM advice columns ever, between it and Aaron Allston's comments in Strike Force (for Champions) you have an amazing combination of campaign design/running tools. If you also own Amber, more of a GM advice book than a game, and Robin's Rules, you have a complete "how to DM" library. The DC system can do anything that the Hero system can do, but still remain "glossy" and smooth. If you don't believe me, you didn't spend any time on the old DCH boards where we deconstructed the rules set much in the same way that Champs fans who realize that Armor was just resistant PD/ED (under the original system) at 0 end.
4) From a prepackaged campaign perspective, you can do a lot worse than Necessary Evil for the Savage Worlds game. The campaign, and adventure generator, are invaluable tools. The system itself is, intentionally, limited, but the adventure is a wonderful combination of V and superheroes.
5) Champions is the big boy on the block and I played it for 15 years. Coming from the Bay Area, I had too. But it has its origins as an adaptation of The Fantasy Trip and Starfleet Battles, and you can tell. What is the difference between segments and impulses? Game play is very much a practice of balancing an array of stun, body, and end during combat. Don't get me wrong, it is a fun game but I always felt like I was worrying about whether my REC would be sufficient to compensate for my "reactor core output." This isn't actually true, you can alter the end cost of powers, but when you really look at the system you can see what I'm talking about. Additionally, a tendency among the players of the most recent 5th edition revised (a kind of 3.5 for the 5th edition) is to make sure that you "itemize" each individual skill/power that your character has. "Only have MOLECULAR BIOLOGY and not CELLULAR BIOLOGY? Sorry, but you can't make a roll to find out that information." From my perspective, stick with the old 4th edition with the George Perez cover and the supplements. Dark Champions, which was brilliant, and Steven Long have been a blessing and a curse for Hero. Dark Champions essentially killed the game for me. Not that Dark Champions wasn't good, as I said it was brilliant, it's just that after that book came out all supplements were Dark Champions. It, and some of the mechanics deconstruction recommendations that Steven Long made, have forever altered the system. Still, the 15 years I spent as an active Hero gamer were a lot of fun, I just like my games a little more casual.
6) Villains and Vigilantes can be fun, and has some great adventures, but be wary of the character generation system. Living Legends improves the character gen system, but loses some of the fun of play.
7) Aberrant is overly friendly to a well designed Brick, but is a great setting. But as a GM expect to have to design the majority of your villains. Yes, this is a part of the fun of a Supers game, but if you're a GM on a time crunch avoid this game.
8) Mutants and Masterminds started as a great Champions alternative. It was sleek and rules lite with only one core book. Newer books have made the game "crunchier," but not any better. Not any worse for that matter. Good game which is easily learned by anyone with a d20 background. The second edition masterfully solves some of the problems with the first edition.
9) Superhero 2044 -- avoid this like the plague, except for an interesting patrol system the game is non-existant.
10)Superworld was the inspiration for the Wildcards series of books and is based on the Basic Roleplaying System that is the basis for Cthulhu and Runequest. Good game and has some adventures.
There are more, and I will likely talk more about some of them later, but work calls. Besides, I think I have loaded this with enough controversy and have to put on my flame retardant suit. BTW, there are some great "Superhero" games that were never intended to be Superhero games.
Christian Johnson
3) The single best and longest superhero campaign I have ever run was a DC Heroes (2nd/3rd edition) game. The 2nd edition cleaned up the bizarre gadget system from the 1st edition and created a rules set that could handle everything from street level to cosmic without batting an eye and without ever feeling like it had "lost" something. The Hero Point system, and the subsequent ability to spend hero points to affect the environment, is one of the most ingenious systems ever created. So ingenious that it has been often imitated. The section on how to run an RPG is one of the single best GM advice columns ever, between it and Aaron Allston's comments in Strike Force (for Champions) you have an amazing combination of campaign design/running tools. If you also own Amber, more of a GM advice book than a game, and Robin's Rules, you have a complete "how to DM" library. The DC system can do anything that the Hero system can do, but still remain "glossy" and smooth....
Yeah baby!
I still crack mine out every now and then when I get bored with 5-foot moves and chessman like play.
GGG
I have been playing M&M 2e for a while, well actualy runing a game. I am enjoying it very much.
I owned MSH but sadly never played because everyone was fluent with Champions, which I played for years. Listening to you guys is making me regret that I never had the chance.
Anyone on the forum do anything with Super Hero RPGs like Hero System, D6 or yes, even Mutants and Masterminds 2nd Ed.?
I like M&M 2e, it is not nearly as complicated as people make it out to be, you should go here:http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewforum.php?f=14
it will give you an idea of what character generation looks like, thers a reason it won a bunch of awards.
Ive tried almost everything there is out there and still have to keep coming back to the tsr Marvel Super Heroes (not saga ewww) or that last marveluniverse one with counters
*rolls eyes*
though I have all the saga and universe books, im such a geek
I posted a link on the marvel thread here about the revival of MSH as the 4color system. also if you want more balance and point buys, there is a copy of the old article for point buys and other kinds of stuff at classicmarvel.com
We had so many memorable moments playing MSH. Granted alot of them had to do with the weirdness of our group. For some reason, whenever we built a supergroup we'd almost always decide that we couldn't correctly fight crime w/o a supercomputer and would usually end up on Reed Richards \oorstep begging him to build one for us. *shakes head*
Of course when we played Heroes Unlimited, we had to make our team name "Urban Renewal" because of a habit we had of doing much more damage than good.
heh
good times, good times
This year we did a Silver Age Sentinels for a bit (less than a month).
Heroes Unlimited lasted some weeks longer. Both campaigns fizzled due to time crunch as they were not the main game for all the players. Seems like soon we will be doing a "second" game again. I'm going to vote for GURPS (probably Supers).
I tried to run a Champions PBP game on a game server set up for such things, but the characters never really got off the ground; I guess it was too hard for most of them to get characters done; I only got one or two character sheets and only one I would approve as the other was using a different system. i love the Supers genre, having been a comic collector for decades; it allows a venue you really cannot reach in a fantasy game.
I tried to run a Champions PBP game on a game server set up for such things, but the characters never really got off the ground; I guess it was too hard for most of them to get characters done; I only got one or two character sheets and only one I would approve as the other was using a different system.
Champions character creation demands two things:
1) A thorough grasp of the rules. You can't really "throw together" a character and play it effectively. You need to know how your Powers, Advantages, and Disadvantages function.
2) A focused AND flexible character concept. The character concept needs a focus to build around, but if it's too focused the character ends up being a one-trick pony. Again, you can't just "throw together" a character.
In some respects, HERO is too flexible for mass market gaming. There is no real "plug and play" functionality; everything is custom designed.