RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I'm sure most people are familiar with the stereotype of the evil bad guy who reveals his plot for world domination to the heroes while he holds them captive and prepares to destroy them only to have something go wrong and the heroes escape, defeating him in the process.
I think I kind of have this same problem as a DM. Any time (okay, not ANY time, but often enough) my players get through with a certain scene in which they managed to miss something or hit upon some mystery that goes unrevealed, I'll chime in after game with stuff like "Oh man, you guys totally had NO IDEA that Mr. Suchinsuch was actually a polymorphed silver dragon, did you? And that sword you gave to the old witch in the woods wasn't actually cursed. The village elder told you that so that you would want to get rid of it and now he can go take it for himself. It's gonna be AWESOME when you meet him again and see what he's REALLY up to!"
Does anyone else have this problem? I think it's pretty basically the fastest way to ruin any elements of surprise in a campaign and I really need to stop doing it, but I guess it would be easier to cope with the fact if I knew I wasn't alone. The first step on the road to recovery is acknowledging the problem...
This is a huge issue with me as well...and I live with my most constant player since she's my wife. It is a true struggle. It's something I've gotten better at, but darn it I want them to know about all the cool twists and plans I had. :)
Sorry Fatespinner. The only time I ever do that is if I have just finished running a one-shot playtest of a module or adventure that is going to be published.
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I have had to learn not to tell too much. I will tell people a bit of my decision making process after the fact but never before hand. I have also had to learn not to plan ahead too much either. Because 1) the players inevitably choose to do something unexpected and 2) whenever they start to talk about what is going on or what to do about it, the often times will come up with better ideas than I had and usually end up changing the story on the spot to make it better.
Director of Narrative
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I had a strange happening in my last campaign. The party's benefactor was actually just puppetting them along into her plans since nearly the get go, but she threw enough money and rewards their way that I don't think they really cared to look too much into her past or motivations. The bard kinda even 'fell' for her. So fast forward to 11th level. Despite a number of hints that I had dropped throughout the whole campaign they didn't seem to catch on, so I dropped two concrete bits of info on two separate members of the party that Mora was really pulling their strings. The PCs let the rest of the party know, and....
...a couple of them didn't want to believe it was true and considered that maybe SHE was being set up. I shook my head, grinned and carried on.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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...a couple of them didn't want to believe it was true and considered that maybe SHE was being set up. I shook my head, grinned and carried on.
That's awesome! I've run a couple of campaigns where the heroes couldn't really figure out their allegiences. Those are the best.
And really, I don't run into this problem so much that it ruins things for the players (much). It's just that I can't help but let my players see a little bit of the stuff going on in my head to make them think "Gee... if he's doing THAT, what ELSE do we have to worry about that he ISN'T telling us?"
I can completely understand the problem. I'm pretty good about keeping my mouth shut about my plans, but it ain't easy. The DM is privvy to so much good backstory stuff and obviously to the keys and secrets of all the elaborate plots; if the players pick up on it in game and appreciate it, great, but often they don't and you're left biting your tongue trying not to tell them because it's just so juicy of a storyline that you know they'd all like it, but then it would ruin the adventure... argh!
I get a lot of scenes in my heads for cool encounters and scenarios (one just struck a moment ago, really) that I would love to share with my players, but can't! Luckily, there's Paizo, where I can often share the ideas under the heading of, "Is this good or bad/What changes would you make?", etc. :)
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Director of Narrative
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After a particularly nasty critter or NPC I statted up is dead I pass the sheet around the table or let the players browse my notes at break. I just try to keep it all in until then. My wife is my sounding board and editor so I get to get it out when I tell her all the juicy bits.
Guilty as charged.
I don't have this problem. I like secrets and secrets cease to be secrets when you tell them. But, I have played with DMS who do this and it drives me crazy. I don't want to know what I missed in room 34 of the 12 level of Maximus Payne's dungeon. It ussually started with, "I shouldn't tell you this but,...., isn't that just so cool."
One reason I started posting on messageboards was to have someone to tell my evil schemes to other than my players. I've sort of fallen out of the habit though. None of my players post here, although my AoW DM reads just those boards sometimes for coversion notes.
My cousins a D&D fan who does not play, so I ussually tell him all my evil plots. He can talk a great game, gives me good advice, has read most of the rule books, but won't play.
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I'm sure most people are familiar with the stereotype of the evil bad guy who reveals his plot for world domination to the heroes while he holds them captive and prepares to destroy them only to have something go wrong and the heroes escape, defeating him in the process.
I think I kind of have this same problem as a DM. Any time (okay, not ANY time, but often enough) my players get through with a certain scene in which they managed to miss something or hit upon some mystery that goes unrevealed, I'll chime in after game with stuff like "Oh man, you guys totally had NO IDEA that Mr. Suchinsuch was actually a polymorphed silver dragon, did you? And that sword you gave to the old witch in the woods wasn't actually cursed. The village elder told you that so that you would want to get rid of it and now he can go take it for himself. It's gonna be AWESOME when you meet him again and see what he's REALLY up to!"
Does anyone else have this problem? I think it's pretty basically the fastest way to ruin any elements of surprise in a campaign and I really need to stop doing it, but I guess it would be easier to cope with the fact if I knew I wasn't alone. The first step on the road to recovery is acknowledging the problem...
This happens ALL THE TIME! I love it...and sometimes I...uhhh...make it happen (*wince*). Seriously, my players expect to learn by slow reveal, but we're Cthulhu junkies, so it kinda goes without saying!
It's tough, I know, but you have to keep it to yourself; it is so much cooler when they figure it out or discover it weeks-months later; and when the small thing in October becomes the totally unexpected but logically explained BIG thing in June---YES!
But, hey, I LOVE those Hitchcock moments!;}
I don't have this problem. I like secrets and secrets cease to be secrets when you tell them.
Also if you keep your mouth shut you can use the twist in new ways in later campaigns. Some of my favourite gaming recently has been all about alluding to a campaign I ran 7+ years ago. Only a couple of my players where from this period but still...there is nothing quite like watching these two players eyes squint and then they look at each other as the pieces begin to fall into place. Nothing makes your world seem more steeped in mystery then secrets from the players past campaigns.
Oh, this is all so true…I can’t count the number of times I’ve gone over everything after the adventure is over and crowed to the group about what they missed, or how I was going to use something they said at the table against them if I got the opportunity, etc., etc. Well, most everyone else seems to have said it all. I just agree that it’s very hard. I’ve improved some over the years but still find myself falling into old habits if I’m not really careful. I try to remember that an unused idea now may become useful in another game somewhere else and stifle myself. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. It is a learning process…a long and difficult one to be sure.
Commiserations…and join the club.
Simply I know I'm guilty as charged. Try not to be but hey I'm still human.....
for now.
I'll occasionally reveal some tidbits about the plot and upcoming 'threats'. It's of little consequence: my player's characters die anyway...
"You caught me monologuing! I can't believe it!"
I usually have enough back story and depth to my campaigns that I never expect players to learn it all. Is the temptation there? Oh yeah. But I fight the urge.
Besides, I like the surprise on their faces when something is revealed after weeks of hints. ;)
Two years after our Shadowrun campaign finished, I was taking something out of the fridge and I turned to my husband and GM and shouted "She was *dead*! My PC was dead that whole time and didn't know it! From the Amazon-jungle trip all the way through!"
He smiled and said, "I wondered if you would ever figure that out."
I just stood there with my mouth hanging open. I don't know how he managed to keep the secret that long--there were clues, too, but somehow it never clicked for me till way after the game was over.
I would never have been able to keep my mouth shut for so long. But I admire his ability to do it! I'm sure the impact would have been much less if he'd just told me.
Mary