RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Last night was my birthday. In honor of my birthday, the Dice Gods bestowed upon me one night of peerless, dice-rolling skill. On a d20, I could not roll in single-digits. My d6's never went below 4. It was breathtaking. I should have gone to Vegas...
'cause I wiped out my entire party.
I might post details if anyone's interested, but suffice it to say most of the night was ruled by good luck on my part, and bad luck on the party's. Grimlocks with x3 critical weapons, Chokers attacking a split-up party. Oh, and only a couple PC's had ranged weapons.
The real killer was the terrain in the grimlock caves. If you can't take a 5ft step, those chokers become INSANE with their 10ft reach and improved grab. Trying to escape ALWAYS provokes.
So it went down badly. I flat-out suggested the option of a "do-over" to my group, but it was universally rejected. "sometimes you just have to take the consequenses," they say.
So I'm going to somehow get a new bunch of PC's, all with complicated backstory, contacts and foils in town, and flesh out some more of the Diamond-Lake envoronment I didn't get to the first time around. But I'm here to solicit advice on how to get the plot back on track with a brand new group after a complete party wipe like this.
I think 3FoE may have been a party-killer for a number of DM's. How have you bounced back from this and continued the adventure? What worked? What didn't? I'd really like to hear some anecdotal info about continuing the plotline following a TPK.
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"DM's can curve dice rolls whenever necessary." Usually the words I hear frequently on the nights that I am rolling "hot" behind the screen.
Indeed a lot of discussion on TPK's in Three Faces of Evil have already happened. Using the search engine with the key words of "TPK" and "TFoE", I came up with three other unique threads and scores of other individual posts. Poke around through what has already been written and you may find some nuggets of guidance to help get your game going again.
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My group of players very nearly died in TFoE too. The Hextorite (Hextorian? Hextican?)defense plan almost worked perfectly, but they squeaked through, the grimlocks mounted a defense when the PC's let a bridge guard get away and that almost did them in, and then they took on The Faceless One's gang without resting (BTW Web combined with an incorporial ally is a deadly combo). Finally, the Ebon Aspect very nearly killed them too. Lots of close shaves and blundering into ambushes.
The only thing that prevented fatalities were action points. The players were able to boost their important saves and hit rolls just enough to squeek by. That, and I was too easy on them with The Faceless One; he shoulda fried them all.
As to how to start with fresh characters on the same path, you're not that far into the AP, so why not start over at Level 1 with a group of fresh PC's and a different intro adventure?
Within the Circle and Funeral Procession could be modified to fit the bill if you substitute a few bad guys and drop in some AoW plot development. Have them start out at the same time as the original party so that they can run the rest of TFoE and defeat the Ebon Aspect. Better yet, have them be part of the defence force thrown together to stop it as it runs amok in town (the original PC's died, so there should be consequences of their failure).
You will have to boost the XP at some point to keep them on the level with the rest of the AP, so you could pit them up against a bunch of undead versions of their late characters. Pick a kind of intelligent undead (Spawn of Kyuss might be too much and will ruin the surprise of EaBK) and give them the old characters' stuff, mannerisms and even stats. That'll be great!
Just my random thoughts...
Why not just have the new group learn of repeated raids on Blackwall Keep and send them west to investigate?
One of my players died, I had him become Allustan. Maybe you can find NPC's that they wouldnt mind playing? If so I would still have them role up the NPC stats, and pick feats ect.
Picking up at Blackwall keep is an excellent Idea! A buddy of mine didn't like the orgins of this AP so he converted U1, U2 and U3 to 3.5, and based most of the city stuff in the town of Saltmarsh (rehashed in the DMG II). His players were quite pleased.
You could combine the Dungeon #114 "The Mad Gods Key" to get the players started aroung Greyhawk city, and rewrite a bit of Dungeon #130 "Within the Circle" to get a patron and Dungeon #144 adventure "The Muster of Morach Tor" to help provide some aditional setting/adventure.
This might be a chance to switch campaign arcs and come back to this one later when it is not so fresh in the players minds. Switch to STAP or run Red Hand of Doom (IMO the best thing WOTC has put out in a year or so).
I think it is important that you let your players have "IT" so to speak, they probably played a little fast and loose with resorces, and these experiences will be remembered and make the sucesses of future characters that much sweeter.
Happy Belated Birthday!!!
You could also reboot with the Mad God's Key (#114), which is set in the nearby Free City. It gets you to level 3 if you harvest all possible XP. You could have the party somehow linked to Eligos--Allustan can ask Eligos to send a party of competent adventurers to investigate the disappearance of the original party, and you're off and running.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Interestingly, I had actually kicked off the second session of this campaign with the boat-chase from "Mad God's Key". I may return to that adventure and use the dungeon portion, since all I hear are good things about that adventure.
Rexx, thanks for that link, I read a lot of good suggestions in those posts. Last night would have been one for rolling behind the screens, except that for the last three years or so all of us have been rolling right out in the open, for all to see. It was bound to go badly one of these days.
I've been watching my players argue back and forth about this on our google-group all day. So far, there's some significant interest in at least SOME of the original characters making it out of those caves, and applying some kind of heavy consequence/penalty for the TPK.
Some other players are already creating new characters. I may end up splitting the difference, and letting those characters with ties to D.L's organizations be used as a kind of blackmail/bargaining chip to preserve the cult's activities. That train of thought needs more work.
I checked out "Within the Circle" and I think a nice goblin adventure might be the way to get back into it... It'll take a lot of work, but I'm already making some connections between the outcast goblin, a couple of Ebon Triad cultists posing as Green Lady worshipers, and a poisoned water supply.
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Last night would have been one for rolling behind the screens, except that for the last three years or so all of us have been rolling right out in the open, for all to see. It was bound to go badly one of these days.
Well then...go DM! Sometimes it is nice to bask in the anguished grimaces of your players as you rip them apart with good die rolls.
It sounds like you have a lot of catalysts to keep the game going. I wish you luck and enjoy the AP! I (we) certainly have.
Here's an idea:
We started our AoW campaign off by first running The Final Resting Place (in the Dungeon issue just before Whispering Cairn) and my group really loved it. In fact, its been about two years since we ran that and I heard them reliving it just last weekend.
You could have your group's new 1st level dudes starting in Diamond Lake and either have Hrodel (the adventure's hook setter) also be from Diamond Lake or substitute her for some other NPC that the TPK characters might have known.
Then, as the new group is headed out to start their adventure, you could have them see their old characters entering the Dourstone Mine on the same day as their fateful encounter with the grimloks. It'll be sad, funny and quirky all rolled into one. And because the old characters never had an encounter in the past with the new characters, just make sure they see the old party just before they enter the mine and from a distance or else one of your players may try to have their new characters interact with their old ones and cause a cataclysmic mess-up with the space-time continuum which will make the return of Kyuss look like a cake-walk.
At the end of The Final Resting Place you end up returning the body of a well-known adventurer to his family - along with all of the gear he had on him. As part of his gear you could have a preserved green worm in a box and some notes he may have collected describing possible evil cult activity in the Dourstone Mine. Whatever you would need to hook the players into taking their new characters where the old ones failed.
And then dig out that old DM screen of yours and start using it again so you can stave of that lucky Vegas streak next time it hits.
We had our first TPK (Ever! in almost 30 yrs gaming)in the temple to Hextor (but sadly, not our last of this AP). The TPK happened largely due to an abrupt attitude problem of the players on a particularly bad night. Everyone agreed to ignore the corny lameness of a do-over and just reboot everyone to their stats before the tragic game session and say the whole thing was a dream. It was embarassing and definitely weak but sufficient to overcome what was essentially real life attitudes nuking a game night. The same players TPKed a second time in TFOE against the Ebon Aspect. Two of five died and the remaining three were knocked unconscious but stabilized. That recovery went much better because the Free City Trio had been following the PC party behind the scenes anyway and just stepped in and "rescued" them. This came off as realistic because the FCT ultimately robbed them of the treasure they had recovered earlier in TFOE and also claimed all the glory. This made these NPCs local heroes in Diamond Lake and made the PCs persona non grata, which was a nice segue into EaBK, HoHR, and CB. This worked out especially nice to create a fierce rivalry between the PCs and the Free City Trio for Champion's Belt.
Last night was my birthday. In honor of my birthday, the Dice Gods bestowed upon me one night of peerless, dice-rolling skill. On a d20, I could not roll in single-digits. My d6's never went below 4. It was breathtaking. I should have gone to Vegas...
Next time you get hot like that and decide to hop on a Southwest flight down here (Greer and I are in Vegas), let me know. I'll put my action on the house, because I think your going to walk away empty handed. You will, however, get your fill of free coctails and buffets via comps, and have a great time all the while!
I know the feeling though; I seem to roll better when I am the DM than as a player. Maybe its because I roll more often as a DM and good roles by the DM has greater impact than good roles by PCs. Who knows....maybe its the DM rule of carnage...
The real killer was the terrain in the grimlock caves. If you can't take a 5ft step, those chokers become INSANE with their 10ft reach and improved grab. Trying to escape ALWAYS provokes.
Wait!!! You mean they couldn't have done 5' steps???
Right... difficult terrain...ARGH! I KNEW THAT BATTLE WAS TOO EASY FOR THEM!
I assumed Theldrick and his Hextorites would totally smite my PCs. Somehow, with serious perseverance and ingenuity, my party did prevail.
Still, if I had been lucky enough to slay them in this "TPK-masterpiece", I would have liked it if the new/temporary characters were actually miscreants kept in that room to the left of the entrance to the Chapel of Hextor. Let's say some of those low-ranking worshipers went rogue (not necessarily the class, but...) and turned on Theldrick, desperate to learn the secret of the Ebon Triad themselves. Could be fun.
I've always liked the idea of players picking interesting NPCs they've already run into - rescued prisoners, allies, whatever.
The 'rescued prisoners' idea worked out really well once when a TPK wiped out the party and there was no possible way for any NPCs to know where they were. I modified the old 1e "In the Dungeons of the Slavelords" adventure and had the players role up new PCs who were assumed to be escaped prisoners - without equipment or even clothes.
I also like using the 'you killed my brother' approach, wherein the new PCs are relatives of the old ones (or at least one of them is) and they track down what happened to their deceased relatives. I usually prepare an adventure that allows them to figure out what happened while simultaneously discovering the plot they old PCs were working on.
Okay, TFoE. I haven't yet had a TPK but it's very close.
My group of Seven 4th level characters have entered the Vecna temple for the second time.
They suffered at the hands of the weasels and the rogues due to a lack of planning, The only Rogue in the players party managed to discover one secret door through to the rear of the temple.
However, was unable to find the way of opening it, the rest of the party were keeping watch for hostiles sneaking through shadows.
They weren't paying that much attention when an explosion engulfed six of the seven party members barely missing the elven wizard stood at the side of the frantically searching rogue.
I thought that would at least make them spread out further and not bunch up close, how wrong I was.
I couldn't let the opportunity slip by, another fireball erupts around them and promptly makes the half orc barbarian fall over unconcious.
A cleric manages to bring the character back onto 1 hit point.
Now I thought they would get the message that they were being watched and something very skillful was hiding, targeting the general area that they were all gathered near.
Nope,
Ho hum another delicately positioned final fireball from the "Rogue Boss" of the labyrinth hammered home the message that they needed to move quickly. Before they were reduced to cinders.
Five of the team spot a rogue hiding and sneaking towards the back of a party member who is oblivious to the danger and they pounce, leaving the Seventh member on their own next to a secret door that opens revealing a robed creature pointing a magic wand directly in the characters face. The door closes.
Two magic missiles later, one dead hostile, and one severely ticked off party member they decide to retreat.
Here is where it started to break down even worse. They decided that resting for 13 hours to replenish health, spells and ability damage was the best form of action in the now safe cleared temple of Hextor, of course the remaining Hostiles are just going to wait for the new attack on their temple, by idly sitting down.
No they won't use their influence on their ally above ground to arrange for some assistance of their own!
No they won't tidy up the direction, revealing marks in the labyrinth and move the dead, clearing the passageways.
No they won't help the stable unconscious creatures and No they won't mount an even greater defense.
The party did manage to get in through the secret door the second time, but four party members failed will saves and two lost wisdom points. One is unconscious, the rest are hurt badly, as the remaining hostiles attack and retreat, they haven't even encountered The main "Bad Guy" yet.
But at least they are aware that they may be dealing with arcane spellcasters.
I have a new player starting at this point, who is in a dangerous position, they can hear the fight ensuing whilst a cauldron bubbles near and a cloaked masked figure, busies itself casting various spells and drinking various potions, as though in preparation for something!
What am I going to do? Roll the dice and make it a dramatic battle, and ensure that the players enjoy the ride, if they just escape by a hairs breadth thanks to a really bad die roll, Oh well thats the way polyhedral randomness works!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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So... the follow-up session to the TPK has played out.
Some notes about my campaign:
Cuthbert/Hextor = roughly the same god, with the Ebon Triad folks being a degenerate heretical cult.
Vecna/Wee Jas = roughly the same god, etc.
Erythnul/Fharlanghan(sp?) = same deal.
What this allowed me to do is make Ebon Triad agents easily disguise themselves within local faiths. There are Ebon Triad agents in the Cathedral, the Green Lady cult, and within the Bronzewood Lodge (and thus the garrison). This has created a feeling of deep paranoia and "who can we trust?"
Now, back to the story. They all died. They wanted to play their old characters... mostly.
The half orc priest of (cuthbert/hextor) died last. He was nearly choked to death by chokers when one of the grimlocks above recognized the shape/sound/etc. of Theldrick's Full Plate Armor (which the priest now wore). Thinking they had a major prize on their hands, they drove off the chokers and investigated further. Of course, this was no Theldrick, just some adventurer wearing his armor. Grallak Kur would need to be told.
And so the orc priest was blinded (ewww.) while the Faceless One and Grallak Kur discussed whether any old priest of (cuthbert/hextor) might work for their purposes. Only one way to find out... they set up an elaborate ritual and shoved orc-priest into the pool in the Dark Cathedral, wearing the armor of the High Priest (blasphemous symbols and all.)
Whether or not it worked... we will have to see in future games. But the now-dead orc-priest drifted to the bottom of the pool, where gravity and some light currents rolled the body away. About a week and a half later, some fisherman got something big caught in their nets, pulled it up and freaked out. They left the body on Diamond Lake's muddy shore...
For a garrison scout to find about three hours later. (This scout will be a replacement PC if people die again). Garrison scout recognizes the body, in perfectly-fitting armor emblazoned with runes of a blasphemous cult. He and his companions bring the body back to the garrison but are stopped by two deputies who instead bring the body to the Sherriff's Office.
Wackiness ensues. An investigation begins as to whether the orc-priest is actually a cult member. Dourstone feeds this, saying that he killed a bunch of cultists who had snuck into his mine. He returns bits and pieces of the PC's belongings, some holy symbols from the Ebon Triad, etc. He even leads a group of Garrison and Deputies into his mines to the place where "them cultists got what they deserved." Indeed it looks like our heroes perished in a big alchemists' fire explosion. Not much left.
Smenk, hoping to save himself, backs up Dourstone's tale... saying the PC's had butchered his men and blackmailed him to get them into a safe area below town to conduct their "witchcraft and devil-worship." Every scumbag in town falls neatly into place and at the end of the day it looks like the PC's were the evil cult, and the town is once again safe from their foul plans.
Allustan gets a visit from the scout who found the bodies. Allustan knows a little more of the truth of the situation. After divining whether or not the PC's are all dead (affirmative) he set about making arrangements to get to the bottom of this. He got in touch with Amariss (green lady cult) across the lake.
Amariss had been having her own troubles with heretics within her cult and listened to what Allustan had to say. She accepted payment, and brought four apprentices to a "midnight event that will change your lives." One of these apprentices is a new Druid character to replace the party rogue.
At midnight, she uses a wand to Reincarnate the PC's. I story-ruled that the PC's could come back in their original races, since the idea of having to deal with bugbears, kobolds and other silly crap is totally not working for me. But their bodies are new, formed from primal clay, never used and not battle-hardened. Think Keanu Reeves when first becoming free of the matrix.
They now have to take time to get "back in shape" so to speak, as the use of these new bodies is completely alien to them (justifying the level loss). Also, they need to re-equip, gather some coin and their wits, and try to re-enter the mine before the cult (which is now believed to be defunct) completes its dreadful rites.
I am really looking forward to playing this out in our next game, I think everyone got totally on board with the idea and it's plenty dark enough to suit their tastes. Plus we have a couple new character concepts to try out as a result.
Very cool Raidou, the revenge of the TPK sounds like a it's going to make for a fun story!