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Very interesting write-up of Shelyn. But what about Norgorber? Since the main villain is the runelord of greed I would assume the god of greed, secrets, poison and murder at least has some presence in the first adventure path. And at the very least a temple of his own in Xin Shalast...
James will need to fill you in on any Norgorber information, as he is the keeper of it. :)
Creative Director
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Norgorber's a relatively new deity. Much younger than the villain of Rise of the Runelords, in fact. So there's not going to be much with Norgorber in Rise of the Runelords at all. In fact, the villians of Rise of the Runelords aren't really all that into religion at all... partially because the last three adventure paths we've done had a fair amount to do with cultists. We're trying to go light on the cultists this time around, but it's hard to do!
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Norgorber's a relatively new deity. Much younger than the villain of Rise of the Runelords, in fact. So there's not going to be much with Norgorber in Rise of the Runelords at all. In fact, the villians of Rise of the Runelords aren't really all that into religion at all... partially because the last three adventure paths we've done had a fair amount to do with cultists. We're trying to go light on the cultists this time around, but it's hard to do!
That is a shame, cultists and religious fanaticism is so easy to explain... fortunately, greed is even easier to explain.
Well, you could always check out The World Project for inspiriation, hehe. It WAS put together largely by Paizo loyalists, after all.
Just went and checked out the cosmology for this. Thats some excellent work. Very imaginative.
You have deities with elemental aspects to their portfolios. Will opposing elements have any effect on the relationships between deities? Will Paizo have elemental / paraelemental deities?
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Creative Director
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You have deities with elemental aspects to their portfolios. Will opposing elements have any effect on the relationships between deities? Will Paizo have elemental / paraelemental deities?
Opposing Elements affecting relationships: Perhaps. Too early to say.
Elemental/Paraelemental Deities: Probably, but not until an adventure needs them to exist in the first place.
Elemental/Paraelemental Deities: Probably, but not until an adventure needs them to exist in the first place.
That brings up a question, are you guys just sticking with the basic four elemental planes or are you going to incorporate other forms of elemental or paraelemental planes?
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Creative Director
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Elemental/Paraelemental Deities: Probably, but not until an adventure needs them to exist in the first place.That brings up a question, are you guys just sticking with the basic four elemental planes or are you going to incorporate other forms of elemental or paraelemental planes?
I'm 98% positive we're sticking with the four basic planes, since that's the way D&D's monsters and spells and items are set up in the core game. Changing them too much makes the game into something that not as many folk would like or be familiar with.
Thanks James. I figured that would be the case.
While I understand you cannot use the actual paraelemental planes and such, I hope that we might at least get some mixed elemental zones or demiplanes when you guys finish up the planar cosmology.
I'm aware not all of the deities can get the treatment Shelyn got on the boards, but could you give us some tidbits about Sarenrae?
Specifically, I'm interested in the mystic swordsman schtick which has been suggested in other threads.
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I'm aware not all of the deities can get the treatment Shelyn got on the boards, but could you give us some tidbits about Sarenrae?
Specifically, I'm interested in the mystic swordsman schtick which has been suggested in other threads.
I've got a fair amount written up about Sarenrae for my own campaign, and will be drawing from that source, primarially, when we start to do more information about her, but I simply don't have time to go through it all right now and polish it up for public consumption, alas. Bits and pieces will certainly be appearing in Pathfinder over the next several months, though, and eventaully I might post more information about her on the boards, but at the same point I'm somewhat hesitant to do so too soon.
I've got a fair amount written up about Sarenrae for my own campaign, and will be drawing from that source, primarially, when we start to do more information about her, but I simply don't have time to go through it all right now and polish it up for public consumption, alas. Bits and pieces will certainly be appearing in Pathfinder over the next several months, though, and eventaully I might post more information about her on the boards, but at the same point I'm somewhat hesitant to do so too soon.
Plus you don't want to look like some crazy obsessed nerd like that McArtor chappy, eh?
Abadar is Master of the First Vault.
Desna is Song of the Spheres.
...
What about Pharasma? Have you decided anything yet?
Abadar is Master of the First Vault.
Desna is Song of the Spheres...What about Pharasma? Have you decided anything yet?
How about...
...The Scale of Fate?
Life and death (i.e., the Healing and Death domains) hang in the balance and only fate will decide who lives and dies.
My two-cents,
--Neil
Um, yeah... I got a little carried away. There's more I want to say, of course, but I'd better leave something for her eventual writeup. :DOkay, here’s probably enough information for a player to get a good idea of Shelyn....I hope that helps! :)
Indeed. :)
I'm speechless at the moment. Give me time to digest this and share it with my player. I'll likely have feedback or questions later. But a heartfelt thanks for sharing this much material in advance.
Sincerely,
--Neil
Hey Mike,
great write-up, I just would like to throw in an idea taken from a Hungarian RPG's fantasy setting which had an interesting twist in the concept of the goddess of Love...
in the ranks of the Order serve the Daughters of Pleasure who, for the right amount of donation to the temple, offer wordly and spiritual pleasure to those who seek them, similar to the highly skilled geishas in Japan or the Guild of Companions in Firefly...
meaning it isn't only about the pleasures of the flesh, but a performance of art, music or maybe a witty and entertaining conversation...
fathers take their sons to the temple of the Love Goddess to experience sexual initiation, because it's safe, legal and the best choice over the lecture with the flowers and bees...
burnt out artists turn to the Daughters for new inspiration, mourners for hope that life still has it's reasons to live it, high-ranking clerks receive a visit to the Temple as a reward and so on...
the Daughters have the right to turn down any offer without the need to explain it, so it is an honour to anyone to see the inner sanctum (in all of its meaning)...
which means a donation really is a donation, because you don't know in advance if you'll be receiving the pleasures you are hoping for...
I know that Shelyn is your "love child", and probably the write-up of the goddess is already in print, just wanted to give an idea to toy with if you like it in future installments...
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I know that Shelyn is your "love child", and probably the write-up of the goddess is already in print, just wanted to give an idea to toy with if you like it in future...
Love child. He he. I get it. :D
There are some interesting ideas in there, certainly, and I might be tempted to borrow or adapt some of them. I guess we'll just have to see in a couple/few years when the big writeup comes out. :)
Over in one of the other threads, James had mentioned the notion of giving clerics access to a feat that would grant them proficiency with their deity's favored weapon...as well as a possible +2 bonus to some related skill. With that in mind, I took a stab at lining up something and thought I'd post it here for feedback...
Erastil - Lawful good deity of agriculture, hunting, community-building, family-raising, and local marketplace trading.
Favored weapon: Longbow.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow) and a +2 bonus on Survival checks.
Iomedae - Lawful good goddess of valor, glory, justice, and honor.
Favored weapon: Longsword.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (longsword) and a +2 bonus on Ride checks.
Torag - Lawful good deity of metalworking, strategy, tactics and protection.
Favored weapon: Warhammer.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (Warhammer) and a +2 bonus on Craft checks that are related to metalworking.
Sarenrae - Neutral good goddess of the sun, healing, truth, and redemption.
Favored weapon: Scimitar.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (scimitar) and a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks.
Shelyn - Neutral good goddess of love, beauty, and the arts.
Favored weapon: Glaive.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (glaive) and a +2 bonus on Perform checks.
Desna - Chaotic good goddess of dreams, stars, travel, and luck.
Favored weapon: Starknife.
Divine feat: grants Exotic Weapon Proficiency (starknife) and a +2 bonus on Gather Information checks.
Cayden Cailean - Chaotic good god of freedom, bravery, and wine.
Favored weapon: Rapier.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (rapier) and a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks.
Abadar - Lawful neutral god of trade, cities, merchants, and the accumulation of wealth.
Favored weapon: Crossbow.
Divine feat: grants Skill Focus (Appraise) and Appraise becomes a class skill.
Irori - Lawful neutral god of knowledge and self-perfection.
Favored weapon: Unarmed strike.
Divine feat: grants Improved Unarmed Strike and a +2 bonus on checks with any one Knowledge skill.
Gozreh - Neutral god of nature, weather, and the sea.
Favored weapon: Trident.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (trident) and a +2 bonus on Swim checks.
Pharasma - Neutral goddess of fate, death, prophecy, and birth.
Favored weapon: Dagger.
Divine feat: grants Extra Turning and a +2 bonus on Heal checks.
Nethys - Neutral god of magic.
Favored weapon: Quarterstaff.
Divine feat: grants Spell Focus and a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks.
Gorum - Chaotic neutral god of strength, battle, and weapons.
Favored weapon: Greatsword.
Divine feat: n/a (already grants access to War domain).
Calistria - Chaotic neutral goddess of trickery, lust, and revenge.
Favored weapon: Whip.
Divine feat: grants Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip) and a +2 bonus on Bluff checks.
Asmodeus - Lawful evil god of deceit, tyranny, slavery, and pride.
Favored weapon: Mace.
Divine feat: grants a +2 bonus on Bluff, Disguise, and Forgery checks.
Zon-Kuthon - Lawful evil god of envy, pain, darkness, and loss.
Favored weapon: Spiked chain.
Divine feat: grants Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) and a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks.
Urgathoa - Neutral evil goddess of gluttony, disease, and undeath.
Favored weapon: Scythe.
Divine feat: n/a (already has access to War domain).
Norgorber - Neutral evil god of greed, secrets, poison, and murder.
Favored weapon: Shortsword.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (shortsword) and a +2 bonus on Hide checks.
Lamashtu - Chaotic evil goddess of monsters, madness, and nightmares.
Favored weapon: Falchion.
Divine feat: grants Martial Weapon Proficiency (falchion) and a +2 bonus on Bluff checks.
Rovagug - Chaotic evil god of wrath, destruction, and disaster.
Favored weapon: Greataxe.
Divine feat: n/a (already grants access to War domain).
Contributor
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That looks awesome; I assume my understanding is correct that this would be a selectable feat rather than a bonus ability? I really like it.
I would extend the feat option to deities with the war domain. Not all clerics of the god will take the war domain, since each god grants five domains. Some clerics might like this route better. Just a thought.
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Creative Director
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That's more or less the direction I was thinking, although I'd certainly give the deities with access to the War domain a divine feat as well. I'd also be wary of duplicating the effects of existing feats beyond Martial Weapon Proficiency, really. In fact, in several cases, I'd probalby end up designing entirley new feat abilities to go hand in hand with the weapon proficiency granted.
For now, though, the simplest way to handle it is to just let Kyra have her Martial Weapon Proficiency (scimitar) feat.
That's more or less the direction I was thinking, although I'd certainly give the deities with access to the War domain a divine feat as well. I'd also be wary of duplicating the effects of existing feats beyond Martial Weapon Proficiency, really. In fact, in several cases, I'd probalby end up designing entirley new feat abilities to go hand in hand with the weapon proficiency granted....For now, though, the simplest way to handle it is to just let Kyra have her Martial Weapon Proficiency (scimitar) feat.
True. I'm simply playing around while I wait for Burnt Offerings to ship... ;-)
And, since I'm not gonna make it to GenCon this year, I need every little bit of self-entertainment I can muster between now and then.
--Neil
That's more or less the direction I was thinking, although I'd certainly give the deities with access to the War domain a divine feat as well. I'd also be wary of duplicating the effects of existing feats beyond Martial Weapon Proficiency, really. In fact, in several cases, I'd probalby end up designing entirley new feat abilities to go hand in hand with the weapon proficiency granted.
For now, though, the simplest way to handle it is to just let Kyra have her Martial Weapon Proficiency (scimitar) feat.
In our home-brew campaign we use a game mechanic similar to the idea of the clerical domains to spice up the special priests of the gods vs. the clerics who serve in the religion's bureaucracy...
the specialists have one spell for each spell level up to 5th spell level which they can spontaneously cast like the core cleric class can do with cure/inflict spells. These are not combat spells to avoid abuse, their function is to show the god's influence on things in their portfolio and give some more flavor to their priests...
there are some wizard/sorcerer/druid spells thrown in the mix, but usually as a spell one level higher regarding its accessibility...
in practice it should work like this:
Granted spells by the goddess of death:
1st spell level: Deathwatch
2nd spell level: Gentle Repose
3rd spell level: Speak with Dead
4th spell level: Deathward
5th spell level: Hallow
Granted spells by the god of farming, hunting, family:
1st spell level: True Strike
2nd spell level: Calm Animals
3rd spell level: Animal Messenger
4th spell level: Plant Growth
5th spell level: Secure Shelter
Granted spells by the god of travel, fate, dreams:
1st spell level: Endure Elements
2nd spell level: Longstrider
3rd spell level: Water Walk
4th spell level: Freedom of Movement
5th spell level: Dream
I don't know where are you all now with the foundation of Pathfinder's pantheon, but maybe this sparks some interesting ideas, though probably you have already plenty of them in your mind, being game designer... :)
I've heard of DMs (myself included in a couple campaigns) allowing player's to substitute a domain of the clerics to spontaneously cast from, instead of cure/inflicts. So a cleric of Wee Jas could spontaneously cast Death domain spells (if he took the domain) instead of cure/inflicts, etc.
Yeah, I know it's not the most original invention since the sliced bread in the supermarket, but, hey, it would be nice to see something like that in an official, professional product...
I've heard of DMs (myself included in a couple campaigns) allowing player's to substitute a domain of the clerics to spontaneously cast from, instead of cure/inflicts. So a cleric of Wee Jas could spontaneously cast Death domain spells (if he took the domain) instead of cure/inflicts, etc.Yeah, I know it's not the most original invention since the sliced bread in the supermarket, but, hey, it would be nice to see something like that in an official, professional product...
I believe that is in the Player's Handbook II.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I believe that is in the Player's Handbook II.I've heard of DMs (myself included in a couple campaigns) allowing player's to substitute a domain of the clerics to spontaneously cast from, instead of cure/inflicts. So a cleric of Wee Jas could spontaneously cast Death domain spells (if he took the domain) instead of cure/inflicts, etc.Yeah, I know it's not the most original invention since the sliced bread in the supermarket, but, hey, it would be nice to see something like that in an official, professional product...
Actually, I'm fairly certain that it's in Complete Divine as a feat...
Actually, I'm fairly certain that it's in Complete Divine as a feat...I believe that is in the Player's Handbook II.I've heard of DMs (myself included in a couple campaigns) allowing player's to substitute a domain of the clerics to spontaneously cast from, instead of cure/inflicts. So a cleric of Wee Jas could spontaneously cast Death domain spells (if he took the domain) instead of cure/inflicts, etc.Yeah, I know it's not the most original invention since the sliced bread in the supermarket, but, hey, it would be nice to see something like that in an official, professional product...
Yeah it is there too, but that version requires a turn attempt to be expended.
Yep, you are both right, I've seen variants for this theme too, it's just they all require you to give up one of your precious feats...
so why not build this thing into the mechanics of being a priest of a given god? it would be more about flavor than crunch, because how cool is a priest of a god of creation who can cast Mending and Make Whole any time it's needed (assuming he is not out of spells)...
so why not build this thing into the mechanics of being a priest of a given god?
We're currently creating the non-generic cleric over in the thread of the same name. At the moment, we're trying to make a 'base' or bare bones cleric and then add things to it to make it focused on a specific theme or deity. I guess you could say that we're actually making an even more generic cleric, then adding specifics. A set of alternate class features, really. Domains are definitely an important part of this, so feel free to chime in if you've got any bright ideas.
Yep, you are both right, I've seen variants for this theme too, it's just they all require you to give up one of your precious feats...
so why not build this thing into the mechanics of being a priest of a given god? it would be more about flavor than crunch, because how cool is a priest of a god of creation who can cast Mending and Make Whole any time it's needed (assuming he is not out of spells)...
I could of sworn that the variant in the "Player's Handbook II" just replaced your ability to cast cure or inflict spells spontaneously with no feats required.
I could of sworn that the variant in the "Player's Handbook II" just replaced your ability to cast cure or inflict spells spontaneously with no feats required.
You're right. It's not a feat, but an alternate class feature.
Basically, at 1st level you pick one of your domains, and you can now spontaneously cast spells from that domain. You still get domain slots, but there's not much point in preparing a domain spell there, seeing as you can cast them whenever you want. Instead, you are now allowed to prepare cure (or inflict, depending on alignment) spells in those slots.
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I just hope they don't go overboard with he amount of gods. We really don't need 30+ gods and another 15 for each different demi-human race.
I concur. Really, in dealing with a setting with multiple cultures with different religions--I find the best way to approach it is to create a single set of deities. Each culture would not necessarily worship (or acknowledge the existence of) all of said deities. More likely, they would worship a certain subset, and may even only acknowledge limited aspects of the deities that they do share with outer culture, and even have their own names and mythos for their versions of the same gods.
This would be the case in the Kalamar setting, by Kenzer & Co.
I don't play in it, but I picked up a Kalamar DM screen (which weighed as much as a book!), and, once I'd finished my origami lesson, I found in among the multitude of general D&D tables were some campaign specific ones.
One full page had a table of gods, listing their holy symbols, vestments, sacred animals, etc, and all their aliases used by each different race and culture. Very nice, I might steal some of the ideas.
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We're currently creating the non-generic cleric over in the thread of the same name. At the moment, we're trying to make a 'base' or bare bones cleric and then add things to it to make it focused on a specific theme or deity. I guess you could say that we're actually making an even more generic cleric, then adding specifics. A set of alternate class features, really. Domains are definitely an important part of this, so feel free to chime in if you've got any bright ideas.
Gah!
I thought I'd come on this thread to direct some of this energy over there, and you beat me to it!I thought you'd gone to bed?
You've posted, like 100 times over this weekend. Are you on crack?
(They are very good posts, though, I have to admit...)
Better check if Dragonmann has had his 50th cup of espresso and re-imagined the druid...
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With the new gods, I hope with will see something along the lines of the initiate feats or even some kind of divine feat that allow a cleric of a specific god to use their daily turn undead/rebuke undead uses in a new way. For example, a feat that would allow a cleric of Rovagug to use one use of rebuke undead to ignore the hardness of an object for one turn.
Your wish is our command!
See the afore-mentioned link to the re-imagined cleric...
Gah!
I thought I'd come on this thread to direct some of this energy over there, and you beat me to it!I thought you'd gone to bed?
You've posted, like 100 times over this weekend. Are you on crack?(They are very good posts, though, I have to admit...)
Better check if Dragonmann has had his 50th cup of espresso and re-imagined the druid...
Ha, yes I went to bed. The text you quote there was posted a bit before your foray into the non-generic cleric thread. I posted it a little while ago, but maybe it's just turned up here?
Yeah, lots of posts. Not on crack, I'm on cleric! Or something...?
Seems like we've finished the redesign now, so maybe my posts will lessen. Until we start another thread like that one :)
You've posted, like 100 times over this weekend. Are you on crack?
(They are very good posts, though, I have to admit...)
By the way, I meant to say again, thankyou Snorter for your encouragement along the way.
Your kind words and allegations of drug abuse have warmed my heart ;) Thanks for inspiring the thread!|
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Funny question. Why isn't Sarenrae lawful? She is the god of (among other things) sun and truth. The sun is likely the most reliable thing we have, it sets and rises and precise times every day, more reliable than clockwork. That seems fairly lawful to me, and not to mention "truth", telling the truth does seem like a fairly lawful act to me...
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The sun is likely the most reliable thing we have, it sets and rises and precise times every day, more reliable than clockwork.Actually, the time that the sun 'rises' and 'sets' is different every day, and entirely dependent on your location and the time of year.
Don't ruin my arguments with facts and logic...
Actually, what I meant was the fact that it rises every morning and sets every night... (and don't you dare point out that the sun itself is actually the cause of those events... that is not neccessarily the case in fantasy...)
You guys are killing me with the favored weapons of the deities. You have any idea how difficult it is going to be trying to find minis featuring clerics with glaives or the like? Whatever happened to maces?
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You guys are killing me with the favored weapons of the deities. You have any idea how difficult it is going to be trying to find minis featuring clerics with glaives or the like? Whatever happened to maces?
Psh. Maces are so second edition. ;D
I have a feeling finding ANY character with a glaive is going to be a challenge. Sorry 'bout that!
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Isn't Pathfinder miniatures pack one called "Clerics of Golarion" featuring characters with all the main deities favoured weapons?
Okay, I'm making it up, but it's a good starting place for a miniatures line.
Of course, I have several awesome minis with glaives, halberds and other pole arms. I've even painted a few of them.
Just a thought here: With Pathfinder ready to roll, I thought it would be a cool/useful blog to just give us the bare basics on the deities . . .personality wise or what their clergy generally trend towards. Not the hard facts that were offered in the player's guide but a bit (nothing that would come anywhere even close to their eventual write-ups) so that players could have a bit more focus when creating a cleric. Just an idea.
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Funny question. Why isn't Sarenrae lawful? She is the god of (among other things) sun and truth. The sun is likely the most reliable thing we have, it sets and rises and precise times every day, more reliable than clockwork. That seems fairly lawful to me, and not to mention "truth", telling the truth does seem like a fairly lawful act to me...
Since my question seems to have been buried without an answer I'm going to go ahead and repeat myself: Why isn't Sarenrae lawful?