Thank you very much! I got to be blind. :(
BTW are the domains not from the PHB you list your own creation, from an OGL-source (if so from which?) or a deal with wizards?
There are a number of domains in the SRD that are not in the PHB. Check out the SRD at WotC and search for Divine Domains.
edit: Too slow! =)
Some of these bits refer to back stories we have built into these new deities. Some are things that'll be flat out changed in the final version. Either way, it's nice to hear comments and have a few hundred extra pairs of eyes on something before it goes it print.
By the way, are these gods shared by all the nations of [insert name of planet here] or are they typically Varisian?
For example, are these gods also worshipped in the region where D0 and D1 are set?
And, finally, do you expect to create minor/local pantheons in other regions?
Thanks in advance!
Bocklin
What I would like to know is who worships whom? The 20 core deities are worshiped by humans, right? And demihumans like elves, dwarves and halflings worship them, too, right? If so, has every race its own favorite?
For example:
Torag would make for a good dwarven deity
Desna would make for a good halfling deity
...
Of course all IMHO.
Creative Director
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These gods are the main deities worshiped throughout the world of Golarion. The six most commonly worshiped in Varisia are Sarenrae, Shelyn, Gozreh, Abadar, Erastil, and Desna. Of the good guy gods. The bad guy gods most common in Varisia are probably Lamashtu and Rovagug and Zon-Kuthon and Asmodeus.
As for races... we don't really have racial pantheons. Humans, elves, dwarves, giants, halflings, goblins... most of the races all worship one of these core deities. There's certainly a lot more obscure deities that we'll be introducing now and then in adventures, and some of them certainly have non-human appearances (Desna is very elven and Torag very dwarven, for example) in some cases.
We'll be revealing more information about all of these deities as the months go on, in any event.
James, if you are going to do corrections: I'm wondering about the "auroch". Shouldn't that be "aurochs" in both singular and plural? The word is derived from German "Ochse" ("ox"). Just "auroch" seems plain wrong to me. Here's a link to the mythic creature in Wikipedia: Aurochs
I really like this list.
However, I would like to see Iomedae with the nobility domain.
Just read the PDF, and I am amazed to see that many of the same concepts for deities that I've been working on for my own homebrew are mirrored in Varisia, particularly a god of gluttony, disease and undeath. That almost perfectly matches a revamped Orcus I had been toying around with. Convergent evolution, I suppose.
I like the whole list in general; bravo!
Here's a link to the mythic creature in Wikipedia: Aurochs
Mythic? Looked pretty well scientifically defined to me...:)
Here's a link to the mythic creature in Wikipedia: AurochsMythic? Looked pretty well scientifically defined to me...:)
Yep. They're not mythical, just extinct..
I am sure some D&D players in 20 years will be hyped up to have "mythical" polar bears as animal companions for their druids...
Here's a link to the mythic creature in Wikipedia: AurochsMythic? Looked pretty well scientifically defined to me...:)
You're right, of course. I wasn't thinking clearly. Long work day... :-)
You're right, of course. I wasn't thinking clearly. Long work day... :-)
I totally understand. :D
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Just a small nitpick, but if you're using the additional domains, shouldn't Pharasma have the Repose domain instead of Death? The Death domain seems like it's more about killing and creating undead than about death.
Actually, I noticed that too, but really liked the idea of a cleric with both the Healing and Death domain. The fact that Pharasma is Neutral really helps. It lends itself well to a Necromancy Magic User without being an archtypical necromancer (ie an undead creator).
Spells like "Vampiric Touch" come to mind. If any of you play MMORPGs, the thing I am thinking is a "Lifetapper" (Bloodmage in Vanguard is a perfect analogy).
This cleric build focuses on draining a foes life and using it to heal allies.
Hmmm...Looks like I have a PrC I need to write up! Bloodpriest.
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Creative Director
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Actually, I noticed that too, but really liked the idea of a cleric with both the Healing and Death domain. The fact that Pharasma is Neutral really helps. It lends itself well to a Necromancy Magic User without being an archtypical necromancer (ie an undead creator).
That's another error that I'll be fixing; actually, she should have 5 domains, like the rest of the gods. Repose is her missing domain; she grants both Death and Repose (since she has good and evil as well as neutral worshipers).
Hopefully the missing Repose domain and the error in Gorum's domains are the only ones... I've been over that list dozens of times since the first error got pointed out. If there's any more after we ship it to the printer... AIEEEEEE!
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Hopefully the missing Repose domain and the error in Gorum's domains are the only ones... I've been over that list dozens of times since the first error got pointed out. If there's any more after we ship it to the printer... AIEEEEEE!
I think there may be a need for a group of post-edit editors. They get the privilege of seeing material just prior to it's shipping to the printer. People not motivated by design change, mind you, but regular "users" who have a decent grasp of the English language as well as the game to notice "contextual" errors as well as spelling/grammar.
The best part of Paizo is the open dialog with its customers. Extending this slightly (a dozen or so people?) to people who can read and post constructive comments in a timely fashion may greatly help.
As an editor AND creator you sometimes can't see the trees for the forest.
As much as I would like to volunteer :) it would probably be more practical to use your regular contributers.
Hopefully the missing Repose domain and the error in Gorum's domains are the only ones... I've been over that list dozens of times since the first error got pointed out. If there's any more after we ship it to the printer... AIEEEEEE!I think there may be a need for a group of post-edit editors. They get the privilege of seeing material just prior to it's shipping to the printer. People not motivated by design change, mind you, but regular "users" who have a decent grasp of the English language as well as the game to notice "contextual" errors as well as spelling/grammar.
The best part of Paizo is the open dialog with its customers. Extending this slightly (a dozen or so people?) to people who can read and post constructive comments in a timely fashion may greatly help.
As an editor AND creator you sometimes can't see the trees for the forest.
As much as I would like to volunteer :) it would probably be more practical to use your regular contributers.
I'd like to volunteer to be one of these unofficial editors. I've got a great eye for typos/grammar errors. My B.A. is English, and I have a long history of proofreading, both in grad school and in my current job. If you need references or more details, let me know.
You wouldn't need to pay me a dime, and I'll sign whatever NDA you come up w/. I just wish Wizards' had done something like this before they printed book after book w/ errors...
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Alright - so we've got the Gods.
What demon lords/devils will be present in Pathfinder? We know of Asmodeus - any other definites?
I think Pazuzu is a given (which I'm totally psyched about - always liked him).
Can Pazuzu grant spells/domains?
Lastly, anyone feel there are any gaps in "God coverage", and if so, what might they be?
Why on earth doesn't Desna have the dream domain, and why doesn't Asmodeus have the tyranny domain?
Are those domains OGL? If they aren't, that would be the reason why. You could always add them in "unofficially" in your campaign.
The Book of Fiends from Green Ronin mentions Arachnadia (Lolth), Baphomet, Demogorgon, Pazuzu, Kostchtchie, Orcus, Lord of Many Forms (Juiblex), Vaz'zt (Graz'zt), Yughooragh (Yeenoghu), Zhar'Ub-Luur (Fraz-Urb'luu). So the most important >are< OGL. :)
Dream first appeared in Complete Divine. Tyranny is from Complete Warrior.
According to d20srd.org, neither are OGL. However, I'm not sure if that list is complete.
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Creative Director
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Dream and Tyrrany are great domains for those deities. Neither is OGL, and we don't have room to print new domains in the Player's Guide, so both are a no-go.
That doesn't discount the possibility of introducing more domains for these deities at a later date, of course, but for now, the core deities can only grant domains that are open content.
Might I suggest that future, custom domains would be a great way to differentiate sects, cults or denominations with in an established religion.
Sean Mahoney
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Might I suggest that future, custom domains would be a great way to differentiate sects, cults or denominations with in an established religion.
Sean Mahoney
Oooh, nice. Like with the Dream domain for example - if a similar domain was created, only a special sect of Desna's followers could access the domain, setting them apart (and above) the others. They might even get cool titles, like "the Dreamwardens" or some such thing.
Dream and Tyrrany are great domains for those deities. Neither is OGL, and we don't have room to print new domains in the Player's Guide, so both are a no-go.
But isn't Repose a non-OGL domain as well?
I was playing around with the gods list and noticed that none of them have influence over the domains of Creation and Scalykind, both OGL domains.
Creation: I think this is good. I'm sure each culture has its own creation myth, and some of them likely have deities with the Creation domain. I think it's good that "the 20" do not have a god of creation.
Scalykind: As with Droskar, I'm sure there are other deities that are outside "the 20" which service the religious needs of dragons and their ilk. As these are generally monstrous races, I understand why none of "the 20" have this domain.
Anyway, just analyzing the absence of these two domains "out loud."
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Creative Director
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None of our deities really seemed to fit with either of these two domains, so none of them got them. Torag almost got Creation, but Artifice seemed a better fit. And Scalykind's not really the type of domain that a god worshiped primarilly by humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, half elves and half orcs would hand out, really. Rovagug and Lamashtu are close... but the other domains were better for them than scalykind.
Rest assured, though... there are other deities in Golarion. The 20 from the PDF preview are just the core deities. Same with the core deities in the PHB... there's a LOT more where those came from, like Tharizdun and Wastri and Rao and Iuz...
That's what I thought, James.
You know, while reading through the list I began thinking "This could be a could analog for Syrul," or "I could use Zon-Kuthon as the god of the shadar-kai." Could you give us an indication of which deities we'll see the Core Beliefs treatment for in the next few months?
RE Lamashtu: When it says she's the goddess of nightmares, does that mean the monster or "bad dreams?" Or both?
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Creative Director
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That's what I thought, James.
You know, while reading through the list I began thinking "This could be a could analog for Syrul," or "I could use Zon-Kuthon as the god of the shadar-kai." Could you give us an indication of which deities we'll see the Core Beliefs treatment for in the next few months?
RE Lamashtu: When it says she's the goddess of nightmares, does that mean the monster or "bad dreams?" Or both?
Lamashtu's the goddess of bad dreams and monsters. Nightmares (the horse thingys) are certainly monsters, but her thing's more like "MONSTER" monsters, like bulettes or ankhegs or ropers or mutants.
We'll be revealing the first 2 deities to get some core belief style attention next week, I think, in an upcoming blog post. Probably.
We'll be revealing the first 2 deities to get some core belief style attention next week, I think, in an upcoming blog post. Probably.
Very cool!
James, has it changed, then, since late April, when Desna was going to appear in the second volume and Lamashtu in the fourth?
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Creative Director
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James, has it changed, then, since late April, when Desna was going to appear in the second volume and Lamashtu in the fourth?
That's them!
Desna gets a writeup in Pathfinder #2. Lamashtu in #4. Although I haven't yet revealed who would be writing them... but he knows what he's doing in this department, so never fear!
James, has it changed, then, since late April, when Desna was going to appear in the second volume and Lamashtu in the fourth?That's them!
Desna gets a writeup in Pathfinder #2. Lamashtu in #4. Although I haven't yet revealed who would be writing them... but he knows what he's doing in this department, so never fear!
Eric Boyd?
I'm looking forward to the article on Desna, mostly because I'm already pre-disposed to like a goddess of madness, monsters, and nightmares, but I don't immediately click with a goddess of dreams and travellers. Should be interesting!
Perhaps Mr. Reynolds? I always loved his writings in Dragon! Please say it is him! But my money is on .... another one. :)
General observations and commentary on the new core pantheon:
Erastil - A lawful good deity supporting agriculture, hunting, community-building, family-raising, and local marketplace trading. An all around nice guy that I can use on many different levels. I like.
Iomedae - A lawful good goddess championing valor, glory, justice, and honor...whether on the battlefield or from the thrones of the nobility. I think her association with the Sun domain is stepping on Sarenrae's toes a little bit, but maybe they simply support one another? Without a full understanding of their background stories, I'm reserving judgement here. All in all, though I like Iomedae very much.
Torag - A lawful good deity devoted to metalworking and the strategy and tactics that go into protecting what's dear to you. Sounds like the de facto dwarven god, though I actually prefer the regular demi-human pantheons myself (i.e., Moradin, etc.). So, I'm not as crazy in love with Torag, but I can roll with it...keep the regular dwarven pantheon...devote a few dwarven followers to Torag...and interpret the rest of his clergy as the builders and fortifiers of human settlements.
Sarenrae - A neutral good goddess of the sun, healing, truth, and redemption. I've liked this one since the very first glimpse you guys provided. Giving her a scimitar and likening her to Eilistraee, but with a sun motif...is a stroke of designer genius.
Shelyn - A neutral good goddess of love, beauty, and the arts. It's a bit overdone for me. Honestly, I was kind of hoping for a male deity in this category for once, but with a large clergy of women devoted to him. I also had hoped for a more active role from the god of love...with romanticism tied to his every action. Something like the strong male lead in an action movie that attracts adoration for being wise, loving, and strong. And, if love is viewed as the greatest power in all the world (e.g., launching a thousand ships, redeeming even the most vile, etc.), then I was looking for a tie-in there to explain the favored weapon: glaive...adventuring in terms of romanticism...but always with all things stemming from love of one's people, the world, those close to you, those dependent upon you, etc. Maybe Shelyn can still embody some of those concepts, of course. I'm reserving final judgement until I get the final product in my hands and read through the entire backstory...and I may not make any adjustments at all once I see what you guys have in store for her.
Desna - A chaotic good goddess of dreams, stars, travel, and luck. Nice combination. It's kind of like having Celestian and Fharlanghn rolled into one. The dream aspect should be interesting as well. This one's a winner. And I look forward to seeing how she gets showcased in RotRL.
Cayden Cailean - A chaotic good god of freedom, bravery, and wine? I want to party with this guy! Access to the Charm, Strength, and Travel domains just makes things better. It's like the heroic, wandering, musclebound ladie's man-about-town. Very cool. A much better take on a Kord-like deity. You wouldn't have this guy star-crossed with Shelyn up there, would you? There's something almost Greek-like in that idea...
Abadar - A lawful neutral god of trade with access to the Travel domain. Supporter of cities, merchants, the accumulation of wealth, and the law. I am SO looking forward to using this guy. And with Greed being the "sin" that's in focus for RotRL, I'm assuming there may be a connection here, too, somewhere in that AP.
Irori - A lawful neutral god of knowledge and self-perfection. Ideal for monks, and a great break from traditional magic/knowledge combinations. I like the direction you went with this one. I'm also interested in what the Rune domain brings to his portfolio.
Gozreh - A neutral god of nature, weather, and the sea. Wow. That was a bit of curve ball. I didn't expect the nature/sea combo, but I can adapt (pardon the pun). Not too crazy about the name Gozreh, though.
Pharasma - A neutral goddess of fate, death, prophecy, and birth. I'm loving the combination of the Healing and Death domains. It's something I frequently tried out for my own games even though there was no core deity that provided it. So this is a great addition, in my opinion. I kind of have mixed feelings placing "fate" with the "death" god, but I understand the association. And I think it will work out just fine.
Nethys - A neutral god of magic. First of all, cool name. Secondly, good choice for alignment. Magic can be both good or evil...and chaotic or lawful. I know most interpretations automatically assume a lawful slant for a god of magic, because of the "organized" nature of wizards. But the inclusion of sorcerers gives chaos a chance as well in this bailiwick...and I've always wanted some primal elements contained within a magic god. Making him neutral is a nice blend. Giving his clergy access to the Destruction and Protection domains is also a nice touch.
Gorum - A chaotic neutral god of strength, battle, and weapons. Don't really care for the name that much...as it conjured up Gollum for a moment. Love everything else, though.
Calistria - A chaotic neutral goddess of trickery, lust, and revenge. Cool. Sexy cool. And a favored weapon: whip? It's like Sune and Loviatar all rolled into one. I also like the name choice here. It's like a whisper and whip-crack all at the same time.
Asmodeus - A lawful evil god of deceit, tyranny, slavery, and pride. This one immediately caught my eye because of the obvious fiend connections. I like that you're elevating a lower plane devil to godhood, basically, instead of inventing a new god to "champion" evil. This one should be perfect for inclusion somewhere in the greed-based AP for RotRL as well, I think.
Zon-Kuthon - A lawful evil god of envy, pain, darkness, and loss. Sounds a lot like Shar from the Forgotten Realms, but with a bit of a twist, perhaps? And with a favored weapon: spiked chain and domain access of Darkness, Death, Destruction, and Evil...this one just sparkles with potential. I almost have visions of Hellraiser's pin-head villain and lots of chain-rattling in the dark followed by pain- and woe-filled screams. ::shudder::
Urgathoa - A neutral evil goddess of gluttony, disease, and undeath. Interesting. It's good to see the god of death separated from undeath. Or at least, that there's two gods, one shepherding the dead and the other distorting them through undeath. Gluttony is an interesting angle here, too. Disease makes obvious sense, because there's a lot of undead that spread diseases (e.g., ghouls, mummies, etc.), but the gluttony thing seems a bit odd. I'll be interested in reading the background to understand more. On another note, the Urgathoa name doesn't excite me that much yet. Maybe it'll grow on me...like a disease! ;-)
Norgorber - A neutral evil god of greed, secrets, poison, and murder. Aside from the name again (too many r's in there), I like this one, too. Nice portfolio. Nice domain access. Definitely the god for assassins, thieves, and information-brokers. I'm guessing we see this guy referenced somewhere in RotRL as well.
Lamashtu - a chaotic evil goddess of monsters, madness, and nightmares. Very cool. I especially like the potential divine explanation for many of the aberrations that exist in the fantasy world. There should be some interesting contrast between Lamashtu's "nightmare and madness" portfolio and Desna's "dream and luck" portfolio, too.
Rovagug - a chaotic evil god of wrath, destruction, and disaster. Seems very Talos-like to me. Really don't like this name, though. Rovagug? Sounds more like a goblin name. Was that intentional maybe? ;-)
Overall impressions:
You guys have done another stellar job. Nearly every one of the things I was hoping to see in a new pantheon are present here. That tells me my thoughts are in sync with yours (in which case, that's good to know, seeing as I'd like to freelance for Paizo eventually). And also tells me that you guys have some really interesting building blocks upon which to spin future adventures in Pathfinder. I think my gaming group is really going to enjoy the ride.
Looking forward to it,
--Neil
I'm especially impressed by Irori - Knowledge and Strength, delicious - and Pharasma, because neutral deities of death are excellent.
Agreed. However, they seriously need Repose rather than Death (or both?), unless creation of undead in the setting isn't supposed to be as abominable as it is by default.
That's another error that I'll be fixing; actually, she should have 5 domains, like the rest of the gods. Repose is her missing domain; she grants both Death and Repose (since she has good and evil as well as neutral worshipers).
I really should read the thread to the end before replying. :p
Which begs the question "What does she use that glaive for?Maybe it transforms into a giant paintbrush?
Now I have that scene from the calligraphy school from Hero in my head, only with a priest of Shelyn wielding a glaive.
Contributor
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First off, thanks for the analysis, Neil. We appreciate this level of support from our readers. I think you have some neat ideas in here, personally. :)
Shelyn - A neutral good goddess of love, beauty, and the arts. It's a bit overdone for me. Honestly, I was kind of hoping for a male deity in this category for once, but with a large clergy of women devoted to him. I also had hoped for a more active role from the god of love...with romanticism tied to his every action. Something like the strong male lead in an action movie that attracts adoration for being wise, loving, and strong. And, if love is viewed as the greatest power in all the world (e.g., launching a thousand ships, redeeming even the most vile, etc.), then I was looking for a tie-in there to explain the favored weapon: glaive...adventuring in terms of romanticism...but always with all things stemming from love of one's people, the world, those close to you, those dependent upon you, etc. Maybe Shelyn can still embody some of those concepts, of course. I'm reserving final judgement until I get the final product in my hands and read through the entire backstory...and I may not make any adjustments at all once I see what you guys have in store for her.
Alas, my big contribution to the pantheon is the one you like least. D'oh. :\
What she lacks in surface creativity I hope to make up for with her (already quite extensive) backstory. She has very strong ties with another deity in the pantheon. One you wouldn't expect (I hope). How strong those ties are depend on approval from the rest of Paizo's R&D staff, but what I have in mind might make you dislike her a little less. I hope. :D
Cayden Cailean - You wouldn't have this guy star-crossed with Shelyn up there, would you? There's something almost Greek-like in that idea...
Hmm... interesting. As I understand it, Cayden is the newest deity to the pantheon (or one of the newest, anyway), so there are aspects of this idea that really interest me. Thanks! :)
You guys have done another stellar job. Nearly every one of the things I was hoping to see in a new pantheon are present here. That tells me my thoughts are in sync with yours (in which case, that's good to know, seeing as I'd like to freelance for Paizo eventually). And also tells me that you guys have some really interesting building blocks upon which to spin future adventures in Pathfinder. I think my gaming group is really going to enjoy the ride.
We're glad you approve. :)
Now I have that scene from the calligraphy school from Hero in my head, only with a priest of Shelyn wielding a glaive.
Which begs the question "What does she use that glaive for?
That's a cool scene. I can totally see a cleric of Shelyn doing something wacky like that. "Battle? Meh. I have something to create! I don't have time for a battle!"
Just read the PDF ...
Can someone point to the said document... Please (said in shamefull voice for not being able to find it by myself)