If the magazines weren't as good as they are, this might not hurt so bad. But at least this way they go out on a high note.
Thanks a million for the last five years.
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Dungeon Magazine and Dragon Magazine have given me as a DM and a player more than simple words can fully express. If I have to sum it all in just one word, they gave me inspiration.
And that is just one aspect of the wonderful experience that these magazines have been under the Paizo management.
I will proudly support Pathfinder and the future projects. Count me in. Twice.
I am not all that pleased with the loss of Dragon and Dungeon. They're both part of an age-old tradition that predates my current gaming group of 20 years. I recently renewed subscriptions to both because the quality of both magazines has gone up and up over the past few years. Will I like Pathfinder? I don't know. The only way to find out is to actually try it out. If it's done with the same love, sweat, and tears (let alone blood) as Dragon or Dungeon, then it'll be a worthy successor. But that won't keep me from raising a candle this summer in memory of Dragon and Dungeon.
I feel sad at the loss of Dragon and Dungeon magazines. Dragon has been part of my life for 25 years – to the month – the first issue I picked up was #61 (May 1982 issue). Even when I went through periods when I didn’t purchase copies consistently, it was always a thrill to see the magazine continuing. Dungeon kept the game alive for me, even more so than Dragon during much of the 90’s. After 3E, the magazines entered a renaissance period that matched the earliest heydays. The Paizo years were fueled by an amazing amount of good ideas, great articles, and fantastic adventures. I’m grateful to all the editors and contributors who made my trips to the local game store and the mailbox a giddy event for the last three decades.
My first published freelance work appeared in Dragon and Dungeon. That changed my life. My thanks to all the editors who gave me a chance, encouraged me, and helped me to develop as a writer. I thoroughly enjoyed writing for these great magazines. I mean, how often do you get to write about D&D gaming, history, and mythology (sometimes in the same article)?
I look forward to the new (ad)ventures Paizo has in store. Like others on this board, I feel that the magazines were the communal lifeblood of the game. I have no doubt that Paizo will continue to support the game and its players with the same enthusiasm they have demonstrated over the last five years. As for Wizards, I think it may be worth waiting to see what they have to offer in online content (or other arrangements) to support the magazine fanbase. Not a few of those Wizards folks grew up with the game and several of them devoted time as editors and staff members of Dragon and Dungeon.
So long Dragon and Dungeon.
Paul Leach
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I want to thank all of you at Paizo for ensuring that both Dragon and Dungeon stayed top-notch since you guys got your hands on them. These two magazines have been part of my D&D experience since my middle school/high school days, and it's a shame that WotC thinks so little of this D&D tradition.
I will be transferring my subscription to Pathfinder--since I decided to subscribe to Dragon and then Dungeon, I've been quite pleased with Paizo's ability to craft quality magazines, customer support and ability to stay in touch with the fanbase. You guys completely rock, and I hope that Pathfinder becomes a success.
This news caught me completely off guard. While i am not a current subscriber, I have been picking up Dungeon since the start of the AoW adventure path and have a collection of Dragons dating back to issue 30 or so. I will continue to get the remaining issues.
I also plan to subscribe to Pathfinder. The team at Paizo have continually surprised me with amazing adventures and great articles for the games I run.
(Raises a glass)
Here is to Dragon and Dungeon. They survived the rough times at the end of TSR only to pass now at the hands of WOTC. And here is to Paizo and awesome tales their crew have woven for us to enjoy as both player and DM. I look forward to what is next.
First, let me say that 1-1/2 years ago, I returned to D&D after a 24 year break. I never even opened a copy of Dungeon or Dragon magazine, and until recently didn't really know what they contained. I subscribed to a 6-month subscription to each and really enjoyed Dragon. Dungeon is just as well written, but I find less use in it, although that could always change. The point is, I didn't know what I was missing; they're really great magazines.
Now I learn that my six month subscriptions will last only five months, and I feel like I missed out. Considering how large our geek community is, and considering the quality of the magazines, I doubt they aren't selling. I suspect that the financial motivation here is simply that they want to change over to the Internet, charge the same amount of money, but stick us with the printing costs.
If we're willing to do that, then it's a good business move, but I doubt the market will be big enough to compensate for the lost revenue of what I'm assuming is a well-selling magazine. It's a shame, but take it from this raginng metathesiophobic: as tough as change is, it is inevitable.
I hope that the quality is good and the cost is reasonable, but I'm not holding my breath.
Any suggestions for Dragon back issues I should order?
I echo almost every comment above. I have a copy of Dungeon #4 still on my shelf and a Dragon #117 (now missing both covers but still there!) and, as I have just posted on the Wizards site, this is the worst blow ever dealt to D&D. Dragon and Dungeon in recent years under the leadership of Eric, James and others have consistently delivered the best D&D content available anywhere (including Wizards products). All three Adventure Paths have been superb and are destined to be long remembered classics while Dragon has again reached a format that includes a perfect mix of different articles that should cater for everyone. If this is the end (and I sincerely hope Wizards might still see sense given the reaction to the announcement) then I too raise a glass to Dragon, Dungeon and to all the staff at Paizo who have made them what they are.
Although I only read the announcement an hour or so ago I have already converted the remainder of my subscription to Pathfinder volumes and will renew this when it expires. Paizo, unlike Wizards, have proved that they can consistently deliver high quality products month in and month out. For that, they will have my loyalty, and therefore my money.
Chief Technical Officer
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Anyone wonder why, if 40% of the magazines go unsold and are such a waste as a result, why Dragon and Dungeon wouldn't go strictly subscriptions. There can't be very much waste if people decide to subscribe to the magazines directly, and even if there is some waste, it couldn't be 40%, not unless it was intentional.
But without newsstand sales, the circulation is much lower, which means that advertisers are harder to attract and won't pay as much when you do attract them, which means you lose *that* revenue, which, for most magazines, is more than the printing costs on the unsold issues.
Much as we'd love to keep doing Dragon and Dungeon, we're not sad at all to be out of the magazine business.
-Vic.
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From those early days of looking for Dragon on every newstand, up until I was published in its pages, and to today, this magazine has been a great part of my gaming life. It will be greatly missed.
thanks for all the great times!
I'm stunned!!! I felt like I found out 2 good friends were going to die. I have been a subscriber to Dragon for about 15 years and I bought them here and there before that. I have been a subscriber to Dungeon less than Dragon but I love both of these magazines and will truly miss them. Wizards have truly made a miserable decision here. The biggest blow here Is that I am an artist who always had my sights set on doing a cover for Dragon or Dungeon magazine. I went to art school I sent art to both magazines got rejected took It very badly and quite for awhile. Before I could get back on that horse horrible events happened In my family and keep on happeneing. Not that I am not to blame for certain aspects of how my life has turned out, I'm lazy, and let so much time slip by and just when I get back on that horse to take control again and getting ready to send a portfolio to you guys this happens!!! I am sure there are many other talented artists and writers who have sent material In already or were thinking of sending In and you're just stunned like me. I was hoping to follow In the path of my favorite artists Larry Elmore,Keith Parkinson, Jeff Easley,Wayne Reynolds and Tony Diterlizzi(whom I've met and showed my work to and was impressed). There are many more talented artists I could mention here but the list would be too long. To other would-be artists out there just a little advice...don't waste anytime send,send,send, and If you get rejected send more!!! Don't give up, It's too late for me now to ever send Into these magazines, but not too late to send somewhere else hopefully In the future you guys and gals will see my artwork? Well enough of my whining, To everyone at Paizo great job and hope everything works out for you all. Well at least the last adventure path kicks major a$$!!!
Demogorgon Rulez!!!
DAve
As a loyal subscriber to both Dungeon and Dragon magazines, I was very dismayed when I found out that they are no longer going to be published. I love my magazines. I take them everywhere I go, I share them with my friends, and I take them with me to my D&D group every time we meet up for a session. Being a girl and being shy, it was very difficult for me at first to feel comfortable joining a predominately male hobby (at least it is where I live), but by reading the magazines I was able to have something in common to discuss with my fellow D&D players when I first started out all those years ago. Growing up on a farm and working in agriculture, one of my favorite things to do was/is to sit outside on my lunch break and read my magazines. I guess the bottom line is I have a lot of great memories with Dungeon and Dragon and I will miss them dearly.
I would like to take a moment to thank Paizo for doing such a wonderful job with the magazines. I am especially pleased with how you are dealing with the excess subscription credit. You generously offered me several informed options while WotC only offered vague hints at online content. I am sure that Pathfinder will be a very high quality adventure path book, but I feel it is a bit too expensive for me. However, after browsing your online store I have decided to choose a store credit. You have many products that I am interested in and I was very happy to see Privateer Press’ ‘HORDES’ in there. I am a very big fan of that game, which I first became interested in after I saw it advertized in Dungeon and Dragon magazines I might add!
As far as WotC is concerned, well... I am very disappointed in them. Unfortunately, it would not be the first time. I am not interested in online content. The last thing I want or need to do is to spend more time on the computer. One of the biggest reasons I got into D&D in the first place was because of the socialization aspect of it. It is something you can do face to face, not hide behind a monitor. If I wanted to go online for that kind of thing, I would play a MMO. I think they are making a mistake by ceasing publication, but I suppose only time will tell.
Anyway, thanks for all you have done, Paizo. I will continue to support you.
Zokcat, you're not the only female gamer about! Keep the faith sister!
I wish I could say I am surprised. I'm stunned, but not surprised. When WotC pulled e-Tools out from under Code Monkey, there was already a hint that they wanted to do a massive online thing.
I can't begin to think of how many wonderful things I found in the pages of Dragon. I started with issue 3. I remember laughing at Wormy's 'slithering hisser' or 'hissing slitherer', the first time I used a variant when I came across the witch class, turning to the back page for Martian Metals ads that were always fun to read, my first Larry Elmore cover... there are so many more. Including more recent ones like that halfling cover, great fiction from Elaine Cunningham, the Wizards Three returning, The Princess Ark's reappearance, Oots Vecna...
I've loved the adventure paths from the moment they started. That inspired me to purchase my first copy of Dungeon. Then there were so many good reasons to keep buying it so I eventually subscribed. The adventure paths are my first reason for reading it though.
I'm pleased to see you guys have a plan in mind for after the licenses expire. I'm more than happy to get the chance to take the money I'd already spent on Dragon and Dungeon to try out your new Pathfinder product. It sounds like I'll love it.
I wish, however, really wish, that I could still subscribe to Dragon. It's been a part of my D&D life for a very long time. I'm so going to miss it.
I am almost at a loss for words... The first Dragon I picked up was in my public school library during the eighties - one of the 'chess' covers - and it was what got me hooked on D&D. In highschool I got my subscription (that I've maintained to this day) and getting Dragon in the mail every month always brightened my day... even now that I'm thirty. When my letter got printed I felt like a Rockstar.
The magazine had its highs and lows, but even at its worst it was still amazing and I never once considered cancelling my subscription. I have to echo the sentiments of most everyone on these boards, that the Paizo years have been some of the best - I'm talking Roger Moore good.
I never had much use for published adventures, so I never subscribed to Dungeon (which I'm sure is great as well). Unfortunately it seems that it is Dungeon's legacy that will continue with the Pathfinder series and that Dragon, my faithful friend, will breathe it's last (I just have to hope that I can get my fix with future Dragon Compendiums).
But seeing as this is a wake of sorts I'd just like to revisit some of my favorite memories: Wormy Comics, Baba Yaga's Hut, all the fantastic art, thousands of ideas I've stolen for my games, sage advice, Clay-O-Rama, character classes, kits, and prestige classes, the Demonomicon, Core Beliefs, and especially Campaign Classics...
Really it could go on forever. Thanks for everything, you might not know how much your magazine was a part of our lives.
Let me add my thanks in as well.
When I started reading Dragon (Sorry Dungeon, I write my own adventures) Phil Foglio and Wormy reigned supreme. While I never did get the subscription (and I asked each year for my Birthday *grumbles*), I bought each month that held stuff I could use. For years it enlightend us to expand 2nd ed ideas and characters, as well as Marvel, Gammaworld and so many others.
All the wonderful content, new spells,monster ecologies, and thought provoking looks at various classes (and new classes!) just made it all so worth it. And Let's not forget the April fools issues. Who could forget spells like Find Hand (SLAP!), or Locate Fire (falls in campfire), let alone Mordelfizian's Instant Death (I'm pretty sure that's not the original name there, but the spell kills Mordelfizian wherever he may be).
Thank you. Thank you contributers, editors, customers and everyone in between. It's sad to see such a huge part of my life slip away. I think most of the anger is caused by what amounts to a childhood friend leaving us forever.
My only concern is for the thousands of gamers out there looking for a door to put their foot in in this industry we have come to love. That is the greatest service Dragon and Dungeon provided; venues for employment, places for dudes an dudettes who fancied themselves freelance writers to get published and, for the very fortunate, the opportunity for a career alongside the great minds of fantasy gaming.
It's sad to see icons fall by the wayside but I prefer to think of it as another transition in what has been, for the most part, very pleasurable for me. As long as Paizo and WotC don't neglect the little guys who would one day like to have their jobs, I don't really care what else happens.
Sigh,
What can I say? It's like a eulogy at a wake. We're all hurting, many of us have been silent loyal Dragon and Dungeon readers for many years (issue 18 Dragon onwards for me).
I don't like online magazines. I used to love Pyramid, I've never bothered looking at the online version. I loved the Duellist (admittedly it was going a bit Pokemon towards the end).
I LIKE PAPER MAGAZINES! I can read them in bed, I can read them while I have a quick cup of coffee, I can read them in the bath, I can read them in the sitting room while I'm "looking after" the kids.
It's not like a new Bond, it's like taking the Bond licence away and making it available only as action figures. Dragon's brand name is as a print magazine - if you want to set up a kickass online service the Dragon name doesn't mean that much, surely?
Anyway, I've seen a lot of magazines die, but this hurts the most.
I will certainly buy anything Paizo puts out given their level of quality. If you need quick cash sort out a decent subscription service for Pathfinder and the modules to the UK, and I'll sign up now for two years.