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Dragon and Dungeon Transition Discussion

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CALL YOUR LOCAL BOOK STORES and GAME STORES !

We need to get knowledge of the boycott into the Supplier/Distributor channels.

Please take a moment to call your nearest:


  • Barnes & Nobles ( http://storelocator.barnesandnoble.com/find_a_store.do )

  • Borders Books ( http://www.bordersstores.com/locator/locator.jsp )

  • Your local GAME STORES.

Vote with your checkbook !

Thank you, and spread the word on the chat boards.


Thanks for the info, Tensor !!!

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your rallying cries of 'Boycott' will not even so much as wake the sleeping dragon that is WotC. I, for one, am not planning on carrying through with any such boycott. Even if I did, and even if EVERY PERSON WHO READS THESE BOARDS did, we make up less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population. If we call our local stores, they will not listen. Even if you tell ALL your gaming buddies to boycott and even if ALL of them decide to carry through, you're STILL looking at less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population (unless each of you has a hundred friends or so, then you might get a solid 1%).

A boycott on WotC for pulling the license is silly. Yeah, it's a damn shame to see Dungeon and Dragon go but Paizo has said that they've reached a mutual agreement and that both companies are on good terms. Chill out. Stop yelling. You're not going to convince enough people in order to make a noticeable impact, so why bother? I don't want to see these boards get filled up with anti-WotC spam and entire threads dedicated to flaming them. They're a company. They will do what they want with their licenses.

I will continue to buy the gaming products that I deem most useful and relevant to my games. Most of the time, those products are WotC products. Now, if their content in future books takes a dive, then I'll probably spend my money elsewhere. For now, though, I'm fine thanks. Let's focus on helping Paizo start a new era with Pathfinder and concern ourselves less with the poor marketing decisions of WotC.

Liberty's Edge

Fatespinner wrote:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your rallying cries of 'Boycott' will not even so much as wake the sleeping dragon that is WotC. I, for one, am not planning on carrying through with any such boycott. Even if I did, and even if EVERY PERSON WHO READS THESE BOARDS did, we make up less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population. If we call our local stores, they will not listen. Even if you tell ALL your gaming buddies to boycott and even if ALL of them decide to carry through, you're STILL looking at less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population (unless each of you has a hundred friends or so, then you might get a solid 1%).

A boycott on WotC for pulling the license is silly. Yeah, it's a damn shame to see Dungeon and Dragon go but Paizo has said that they've reached a mutual agreement and that both companies are on good terms. Chill out. Stop yelling. You're not going to convince enough people in order to make a noticeable impact, so why bother? I don't want to see these boards get filled up with anti-WotC spam and entire threads dedicated to flaming them. They're a company. They will do what they want with their licenses.

I will continue to buy the gaming products that I deem most useful and relevant to my games. Most of the time, those products are WotC products. Now, if their content in future books takes a dive, then I'll probably spend my money elsewhere. For now, though, I'm fine thanks. Let's focus on helping Paizo start a new era with Pathfinder and concern ourselves less with the poor marketing decisions of WotC.

I don't care. BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT!

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
I don't care. BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT!

*sigh*

Liberty's Edge

What Eldritch said!!

I know it won't work. I don't care. I'm tired of getting jerked around.


Actually, I bought every WotC D&D product (save minis) that's come out in the last year few years save two Eberron books that I just forgot to get.

If even a hundred people who spend on that level boycott, they will certainly feel it.

If a thousand people who spend a tenth of that boycott, they will certianly feel it.

What's more... a boycott draws attention to consumer unrest. Not great for stock value.

Liberty's Edge

Yessss!

Liberty's Edge

The Jade wrote:

Actually, I bought every WotC D&D product (save minis) that's come out in the last year few years save two Eberron books that I just forgot to get.

F#+! that! I download stuff off of LimeWire!


Fatespinner wrote:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your rallying cries of 'Boycott' will not even so much as wake the sleeping dragon that is WotC. I, for one, am not planning on carrying through with any such boycott. Even if I did, and even if EVERY PERSON WHO READS THESE BOARDS did, we make up less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population. If we call our local stores, they will not listen. Even if you tell ALL your gaming buddies to boycott and even if ALL of them decide to carry through, you're STILL looking at less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population (unless each of you has a hundred friends or so, then you might get a solid 1%).

A boycott on WotC for pulling the license is silly. Yeah, it's a damn shame to see Dungeon and Dragon go but Paizo has said that they've reached a mutual agreement and that both companies are on good terms. Chill out. Stop yelling. You're not going to convince enough people in order to make a noticeable impact, so why bother? I don't want to see these boards get filled up with anti-WotC spam and entire threads dedicated to flaming them. They're a company. They will do what they want with their licenses.

I will continue to buy the gaming products that I deem most useful and relevant to my games. Most of the time, those products are WotC products. Now, if their content in future books takes a dive, then I'll probably spend my money elsewhere. For now, though, I'm fine thanks. Let's focus on helping Paizo start a new era with Pathfinder and concern ourselves less with the poor marketing decisions of WotC.

Wow, Fatey. I'm surprised to hear you say those words. If everyone had that attitude, we'd have brittle bones because the same bully would have taken our milk money every day. There IS strength in numbers, as history has proven time and time again. Sadly, your percentages are probably not too far off from the truth, but I say resist anyway. Just because you sigh contentedly as the guillotine roughly caresses the back of your neck doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Still, keep buying WotC products if you will(and I may pick up a supplement here and there), but I will be looking for other places to spend the bulk my money, preferably with Paizo- and certainly not on a fourth edition with WotC at the helm.


Fatespinner wrote:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your rallying cries of 'Boycott' will not even so much as wake the sleeping dragon that is WotC. I, for one, am not planning on carrying through with any such boycott. Even if I did, and even if EVERY PERSON WHO READS THESE BOARDS did, we make up less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population. If we call our local stores, they will not listen. Even if you tell ALL your gaming buddies to boycott and even if ALL of them decide to carry through, you're STILL looking at less than 1% of the total D&D gaming population (unless each of you has a hundred friends or so, then you might get a solid 1%).

A boycott on WotC for pulling the license is silly. Yeah, it's a damn shame to see Dungeon and Dragon go but Paizo has said that they've reached a mutual agreement and that both companies are on good terms. Chill out. Stop yelling. You're not going to convince enough people in order to make a noticeable impact, so why bother? I don't want to see these boards get filled up with anti-WotC spam and entire threads dedicated to flaming them. They're a company. They will do what they want with their licenses.

I will continue to buy the gaming products that I deem most useful and relevant to my games. Most of the time, those products are WotC products. Now, if their content in future books takes a dive, then I'll probably spend my money elsewhere. For now, though, I'm fine thanks. Let's focus on helping Paizo start a new era with Pathfinder and concern ourselves less with the poor marketing decisions of WotC.

The objector and the rebel who raises his voice against what he believes to be the injustice of the present and the wrongs of the past is the one who hunches the world along.

-Clarence S. Darrow

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Fatespinner wrote:
Let's focus on helping Paizo start a new era with Pathfinder and concern ourselves less with the poor marketing decisions of WotC.

Agreed. The best we can do is make Paizo a success. Tell your friends to buy Pathfinder, tell them about item cards, tell them about the Paizo community, tell them about all the online store. Drive as much business as you can to Paizo to help them succeed. You will not succeed against WotC. Don't buy their products if it will make you feel good, but realize that the best you can do to make a change is to help Paizo, not hurt WotC.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

~bitter smile~ Fatespinner, I almost guarantee that you are right. However, even if we have a less than 1% impact, we will do it. For one reason, we are mad. ~gives a rabid look~ These are THE D & D magazines. ~shrugs~ Yes, I doubt that it will have an effect, but it is for us, not them that we are doing it. ~grins~ I do understand and respect you for your views and descions. Nothing will change that.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

The Jade wrote:


What's more... a boycott draws attention to consumer unrest. Not great for stock value.

D&D books are not a big income stream for Hasbro. To the extent Wizards is mentioned in Hasbro's financial statements, it is always in the context of Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, and miniatures.


Sebastian wrote:
The Jade wrote:


What's more... a boycott draws attention to consumer unrest. Not great for stock value.
D&D books are not a big income stream for Hasbro. To the extent Wizards is mentioned in Hasbro's financial statements, it is always in the context of Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, and miniatures.

I had that explained to me recently. But their divisions still have to show a profit, otherwise, why are they there? An insurance break?

Not that this is our own private Vietnam or anything, but far less than 1% of the population marched in Washington, and it did have an effect. Saying that last sentence... I am such a geek. It's official.


Sebastian wrote:
The Jade wrote:


What's more... a boycott draws attention to consumer unrest. Not great for stock value.
D&D books are not a big income stream for Hasbro. To the extent Wizards is mentioned in Hasbro's financial statements, it is always in the context of Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, and miniatures.

I totally agree...alot of peopel seem to forget that WoTC is more or less a front for Hasbro in the RPG/Fantasy Gaming market...


The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
The Jade wrote:

Actually, I bought every WotC D&D product (save minis) that's come out in the last year few years save two Eberron books that I just forgot to get.

f~#* that! I download stuff off of LimeWire!

I have a strong anti-piracy stance, Mr. Shiny. Can't steal from artists.


Kalin Agrivar wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
The Jade wrote:


What's more... a boycott draws attention to consumer unrest. Not great for stock value.
D&D books are not a big income stream for Hasbro. To the extent Wizards is mentioned in Hasbro's financial statements, it is always in the context of Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh, and miniatures.
I totally agree...alot of peopel seem to forget that WoTC is more or less a front for Hasbro in the RPG/Fantasy Gaming market...

Not me. But bad for business is bad for business and even Hasbro would feel a public backlash. Televised protest would tell the Wall Street Journal that Hasbro can't keep its customers happy.

Bad PR is worth more than division profit, I'd suspect.

It also allows us a chance to show the world that we fine gamers are legion.

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
Let's focus on helping Paizo start a new era with Pathfinder and concern ourselves less with the poor marketing decisions of WotC.
Agreed. The best we can do is make Paizo a success. Tell your friends to buy Pathfinder, tell them about item cards, tell them about the Paizo community, tell them about all the online store. Drive as much business as you can to Paizo to help them succeed. You will not succeed against WotC. Don't buy their products if it will make you feel good, but realize that the best you can do to make a change is to help Paizo, not hurt WotC.

I'll do that later.

Right now, I'm in a scrappin' mood.


The Jade wrote:


Not me. But bad for business is bad for business and even Hasbro would feel a public backlash. Televised protest would tell the Wall Street Journal that Hasbro can't keep its customers happy.

Bad PR is worth more than division profit, I'd suspect.

It also allows us a chance to show the world that we fine gamers are legion.

very true..but I think you would need someone also in the public eye to give this message...otherwise I think "the movement" wouldn't be much more than a 30 second quirky-intrest story about a few mad "RPG geeks"...the only time our hobby (or similiar hobbies) get mainstream attention is when there is death, murder or cults involved (IMHO)

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

The Jade wrote:


I had that explained to me recently. But their divisions still have to show a profit, otherwise, why are they there? An insurance break?

If I had to guess, I would bet that D&D is a low margin, low revenue segment of WotC. I know everyone thinks WotC is run by suits who hate gamers, but I believe the only reason D&D continues is because there are still sufficient gamers in the company to keep it going. I would bet that D&D is probably seen as a way to bring people into other more profitable products, such as Magic or their minatures line. D&D is probably always just a bad quarter or two away from being discontinued, or, worse yet, pared back. Here are the scenarios I see if the D&D line starts to suffer:

1. It's killed. Period. There's no sense employing people to work on a product line that doesn't make much money or makes a very low amount of money, so the line is killed and people are put on other products. The game is not licensed out because they want to hold onto it in case the market improves in the future. I find this unlikely, because if they do kill D&D, the OGL will result in some new company taking over the product line. If this were to happen, hopefully paizo would be that company, but more realisticly, every gaming company would step up and we'd have 3-5 different versions of D&D (one made by Whitewolf, one by Paizo, etc). Granted, this scenario could also occur if 4e is a flop.

2. They out-license. This is the best scenario you could hope for. The key here though is that Paizo would need to be in shape to pick up the license. That's why supporting Paizo is so important. If D&D does fail at WotC, Paizo needs to be in solid shape to pick up the ball.

3. Dry up the line. Basically, if demand drops for D&D products, they reduce supply. This is the most likely scenario in my mind. What happens is that instead of failing altogether, the D&D line is scaled back. This might mean that we get poorer quality supplements or just fewer supplements. Campaign worlds may be cancelled. Etc. Again, the OGL provides a safety valve because other companies can step into the void, but again, there is a strong risk of fragmentation. Again, if you want Paizo to be the company to step into that void, you need to support them now.

Anyway, that's my analysis. Don't frame this as a boycott of WotC. It is doomed to fail. Frame this as support for Paizo. This is Paizo's chance to be big enough to shoulder D&D in case WotC no longer is willing to do so. Just killing D&D without a successor is a huge mistake, and that's what a pure boycott risks.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Freehold DM wrote:
Wow, Fatey. I'm surprised to hear you say those words. If everyone had that attitude, we'd have brittle bones because the same bully would have taken our milk money every day. There IS strength in numbers, as history has proven time and time again. Sadly, your percentages are probably not too far off from the truth, but I say resist anyway. Just because you sigh contentedly as the guillotine roughly caresses the back of your neck doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Still, keep buying WotC products if you will(and I may pick up a supplement here and there), but I will be looking for other places to spend the bulk my money, preferably with Paizo- and certainly not on a fourth edition with WotC at the helm.

I will agree 100% that there is strength in numbers. It is just that numbers are something we don't really have here. I would never say that I spend 'the majority' of my money on WotC products and I NEVER buy any modules or WotC plastic minis. In fact, I think they would have to pull out some pretty impressive stuff to get me to pick up anything more than I already have. I am planning on picking up the Complete Champion when it comes out (I have the rest of the Complete stuff already) but I don't really see much else in the forecast.

If WotC releases 4th Ed. in the near future, I'll be a little bit peeved, just like I was when the New World of Darkness came out. It took me almost 5 years to get around to the New WoD stuff, but I did eventually get around to it. Such is life.

And it goes without saying that I will continue to support Paizo in whatever way I can. Hell, I'm a Pathfinder Charter Subscriber... and I don't even plan to run the adventures!


Very astute read on things, Seb. Still hoping for #2.

If it dies altogether. Let's buy it and show 'em how it's done.

Of course I'll be supporting Paizo regardless of the how it all shakes out.


The Eldritch Mr. Shiny wrote:
f%&& that! I download stuff off of LimeWire!

Then your opinion has even less than no impact.


Kalin Agrivar wrote:


very true..but I think you would need someone also in the public eye to give this message...otherwise I think "the movement" wouldn't be much more than a 30 second quirky-intrest story about a few mad "RPG geeks"...the only time our hobby (or similiar hobbies) get mainstream attention is when there is death, murder or cults involved (IMHO)

Well then I'll set myself on fire in front of their offices.

You've got the extinguishers at the ready, right?

Right?

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Sebastian wrote:
Economic wisdom.

Absolutely. You exercise your Econ degree well, sir.


A Boycott is something one does to express displeasure with a company for it's business practices, it's effect on the community, that sort of thing. For example, you might boycott a company that spends advertising dollars in a magazine that publishes articles that encourage drug use.

You don't Boycott a company for taking away something you were voluntarily paying for... No one Boycotted Pontiac for stopping production on the Trans Am...

I will miss Dungeon and Dragon. I prefer to have paper magazines I can flip though in places a laptop is inconvenient. Magazines also have no load times. And the fact is, I will miss the tradition of this long-running periodical. DnD will be "missing something" when they are gone.

Will I stop playing Magic the Gathering because it it? No.
Will I stop buying DnD Minis? Probably not, though time will tell. If the lack of these two magazines sufficiently dulls my overall DnD experience, I might not buy some future products.

But that is not a boycott. That will be poor planning and marketing on WotC's part. If whatever WotC does in October does not inspire me to buy their products the way Dragon and Dungeon did, it will be their loss. If they do things right, who knows, maybe both companies will be stronger. WotC publishing content on their webstire and Paizo freeing itself of the limitations of the licsensed portions of the d20 system.


The Jade wrote:

Well then I'll set myself on fire in front of their offices.

You've got the extinguishers at the ready, right?

Right?

of course...in case the wand of fire extinguishing doesn't work...

but just on the side of safety...maybe we should use burning effigies instead? (not the undead version)

Shadow Lodge

I for one will not boycott WotC/Hasboro for acting like a corporation. They have done the game a number of great services including reviving the fantasy miniature market, providing free content via the OGL (and enabling many others to do the same), supporting the creation of Paizo with their licensing, providing a much-needed and reasonably "clean" update to the rules, not to mention unearthing the skeliton of the game from TSR's graveyard and breathing new life into it. They have done a few things wrong too, including the anime-ification of the game, the bordering-on-the-bizarre power amplification via their endless line of supplemental books, the inability to produce Greyhawk content, failure to produce high quality modules and other "consumable content" and now the destruction of Dungeon and Dragon magazines, the two beloved icons in the game.

Do I boycott WotC/Hasboro for this latest action? No. I am simply going to be very careful of how my gaming dollar is spent. Paizo has my unconditional support; right now, they are my only source of gaming materials. I do not plan on buying much or any WotC/Hasboro products in the foreseeable future, but it isn't because I want to punish them for their decision to yank the licenses from Paizo, it is because they are no longer producing products or content that appeals to me. For WotC to win me over, Paizo has to fail to deliver and WotC/Hasboro has to radically improve their consumable content and hardbook quality.

If you really do harbor so much anger at WotC/Hasboro that you want to boycott, don't just not buy WotC items, put your wallet where your beliefs are and subscribe to Pathfinder, buy the GameMastery modules, submit your concepts for adventures and monsters to Paizo and tell your FLGS and everyone you game with about your respect for Paizo and the quality of their products. Long after this zealotry is over, what will keep Paizo around (and WotC/Hasboro playing catch-up) is a steady stream of operating capital (cash) and a strong fan base ready to buy their next offering.

If WotC/Hasboro manages to turn things around, then all gamers win, since we now have two sources of quality materials in Paizo and WotC/Hasboro. If WotC/Hasboro fails, then the support you have given Paizo will be all that more precious, because you will be keeping alive the one company that wants to keep doing what they are doing for love of the game (as well as some profit, I am sure).

Scarab Sages

My $0.02 for what it is worth - politicans from both of the so called 2 partys have a '1 for 10' rule - meaning: that if 1 member of the faceless public calls in to gripe about something - 10 more have not and feel the same way (and will vote that way too)- if we cry boycott of D&D AS WELL AS MAGIC, etc. with say a thousand or more people - Hasblow will at least take notice.


I think a point that might have been missed by a lot of people is that Dungeon and Dragon were expensive to produce, and didn't make anyone any money. In fact, while we as fans probably assume that the 2 magazines are the core of what Paizo do, the reality may well be that producing the 2 magazines is more of a millstone around their neck that keeps them from other, more profitable game-related production.

If WotC do itright, many of the same folks who got published in Dragon and Dungeon will still be getting published therough the WotC subscription site. Paizo won't be fighting an uphill battle to win rack space, against FLGSs that don't want to carry the mags, and a at times unreliable postal service.

Glass half full view? We will have 2 companies producing more focussed, high quality gaming goodness for us.


I'm getting the message that if we temporarily stop buying WotC products in order that they might know just how much we don't approve of their plans for our hobby, we're somehow killing said hobby.

All companies don't have to act with a seeming despite for their consumers. That isn't 'how it's done' and I'm not all that concerned about ruffling their feathers. Let 'em lean back against the ropes and feel some body blows. There's always the outside chance that they will at least keep the magazines in print.

If D&D dies because the people who run it can't keep us happy, then it dies. That's more on them than it is on me for suggesting we get loud about this. Anyway, if it does perish, I've always wanted to take up basketweaving and the local school has an intermediate level class I think I can talk my way into. Who wants to pre-order?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Boycotts don't work. Historically, name one. Methodists vs Disney? Nope. And considering the size of the Methodist Church, that one actually had some chance at success.

I won't be boycotting WotC. I will be less likely to buy their products, however. I have a limited gaming budget; my dollars can only stretch so far. I will be buying Pathfinder, and that takes up a much larger percentage of my monthly gaming dollars than Dungeon did.

Besides, a lot of the WotC releases were written by our beloved Paizo contributors. Should we boycott Expedition to Castle Greyhawk to protest the poor treatment of Paizo? It was written by Jason Buhlman, James Jacobs, and Erik Mona! Logue, Vaughan, and Baur all also have books coming out this year with their names on them. These are the people we want to punish? Lets not cut of our noses to spite our face.

Liberty's Edge

I know it's not going to work. I don't care.
They can go jump in a lake.
It won't kill D&D.
I'm tired of getting jacked around.
I won't give them my money until they quit jacking me around.
When people jack me around, I say, "screw YOU guys, I'm going home."


The Jade wrote:
... All companies don't have to act with a seeming despite for their consumers.

.

This includes Paizo.

I just went and spoke to my local game-store-guy who says he has known Lisa for many, many years.

He said that on the Distributor’s Forum, which I guess is a message board like this one for people who own game stores, a Paizo representative announced their intention to discontinue the WotC Dragon/Dungeon license a few months ago and gave them a chance to ask questions.

Hearsay is that Paizo could not afford to keep the license or negotiate the price down, and with printing costs high and advertising is thin -- it's over.

I will buy the first issue of Pathfinder but it had better knock my clothes off.


Vigil wrote:
Boycotts don't work. Historically, name one.

Yeah... I was a little skeptical of such a sweeping statement so I typed 'successful boycotts' into Google. It yielded a listing of many successful boycotts by Ethical Consumer in the very first website Google listed. I didn't even bother reading on to find more examples of successful boycotting campaigns.

Let this stand in place of me naming more than one.

These may be for harder hitting issues like the welfare of whales vs salt extraction in the ocean, but all that means to me is that you must have passion and perserverance to correct the ethical actions of companies you patronize. Boycotts can and do work, if you believe in what you're fighting for. Our mags may not be whales or fur or fair trade, but to me they are the life-blood of our hobby, whoever marginal the nay-sayers say we are. I'm sure the fur-loving rich were equally dismissive of PETA until they got their first paint bath.

Let's not do the work of WOTC and put ourselves down, let's build each other up and positively effect an aspect of our hobby that we love.


Tensor wrote:
Hearsay is because Paizo could not afford it or negotiate the price down, and printing costs are high and advertising is thin. That's the way it is.

Well, huh. That's not my impression of how it's been represented on these boards. My impression is that WOTC pulled the liscence, not that Paizo let go because of high cost. I'm I wrong?


Tensor wrote:
The Jade wrote:
All companies don't have to act with a seeming despite for their consumers.

This includes Paizo

.

I just went and spoke to my local game-store-guy who says he has known Lisa for many, many years.

He said that on the Distributor’s Forum, which I guess is a message board like this one for people who own game stores, a Paizo representative announced their intention to discontinue the WotC Dragon/Dungeon license a few months ago and gave them a chance to ask questions. Hearsay is that Paizo could not afford to keep the license or negotiate the price down, and printing costs are high while advertising is thin. So, it's all over.

I will buy the first issue of Pathfinder but it had better knock my clothes off.

WHOA! I never wrote: this includes Paizo. My post is gone. What gives?!

Look at my recent posts and you'll see this was my last:

I'm getting the message that if we temporarily stop buying WotC products in order that they might know just how much we don't approve of their plans for our hobby, we're somehow killing said hobby.

All companies don't have to act with a seeming despite for their consumers. That isn't 'how it's done' and I'm not all that concerned about ruffling their feathers. Let 'em lean back against the ropes and feel some body blows. There's always the outside chance that they will at least keep the magazines in print.

If D&D dies because the people who run it can't keep us happy, then it dies. That's more on them than it is on me for suggesting we get loud about this. Anyway, if it does perish, I've always wanted to take up basketweaving and the local school has an intermediate level class I think I can talk my way into. Who wants to pre-order?


Patrick Mousel wrote:
Well, huh. That's not my impression of how it's been represented on these boards. My impression is that WOTC pulled the liscence, not that Paizo let go because of high cost. I'm I wrong?

I know, I am confused too. I don't know what to think.

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Patrick Mousel wrote:
I didn't even bother reading on to find more examples of successful boycotting campaigns.

You should have. If you take a look at the bottom of that page you linked, it lists a few boycotts of major corporations. One of them reduced Nestle's profit margin by a whopping 3%. Another one got a company to stop selling softcore porn mags in all of its stores (except the ones where THEY SOLD THE MOST MAGAZINES). Yet another got Philip Morris worked up enough to donate a couple million bucks to charity (which basically says "Here's some money. Now go away.").

The last truly remarkable boycott that worked was the Boston Tea Party, and even that only served to kick off a WAR. That's not what we want here. Let's keep it civil.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

If we really want to use our Civil voice of displeasure towards the decision makers at WotC (not the designers or developers or art staff.. i.e. the Creative team) we should stage a protest at their biggest media event...

GENCON INDY and SoCAL.

Make T-shirts with the Dungeon and Dragon mastheads on them, make signs, stickers, buttons... we're all relatively creative people in this hobby. Use your imaginations and come up with creative ways to voice your opinions... but no violence or threats of harassment.

Though the "Smite Scott Rouse" T-shirts would be fun to make!!! :)


The Jade wrote:


WHOA! I never wrote: this includes Paizo. My post is gone. What gives?!

Sorry, Jade that is my sloppage !! Please excuse me.


Fatespinner wrote:


The last truly remarkable boycott that worked was the Boston Tea Party, and even that only served to kick off a WAR. That's not what we want here. Let's keep it civil.

I started a Boycott again Hyglaxxo Inc. and you can't even find them on the web anymore.


Tensor wrote:
The Jade wrote:


WHOA! I never wrote: this includes Paizo. My post is gone. What gives?!

Sorry, Jade that is my sloppage !!

Memories of April 1st coming back. <:|


The Jade had the right idea in another thread. If you're not up to a permanent boycott (I'm undecided, but I can play Eberron just fine with what's already published, and not much else that WotC is releasing lately is worthwhile), you could just do it for a few months; it will still help scare some sense into WotC (assuming enough people get involved), and you can always get any good books later, cheaper.


Again, wow. Lots of throat-showing on a thread entitled Boycott. If people want to roll over on this, that's fine, but I certainly won't. WotC will have to work extra hard to get my gaming dollars.

Liberty's Edge

WOTC stuff bought today: ZERO.


Heathansson wrote:
WOTC stuff bought today: ZERO.

^5

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Freehold DM wrote:
Again, wow. Lots of throat-showing on a thread entitled Boycott. If people want to roll over on this, that's fine, but I certainly won't. WotC will have to work extra hard to get my gaming dollars.

Yeah, that's what I'm all about, rolling over and throat-showing. Why don't you describe how exactly this boycott is going to play out in the magical world you inhabit. Something like this:

Step 1: Boycott
Step 2: WotC is sad
Step 3: Return of Dragon and Dungeon

Like I said, I can respect not wanting to purchase WotC products after this, I can respect being angry. But I'm not that angry, and self-righteous comments such as the above just piss me off in favor of WotC.

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