Okay, So I'm going to try to design my own homebrew campaign setting. But I don't know where to start. Do I start with a creation myth, do I start with deities, with geography, nations and politics?
Whenever I try to actually sit down and come up with something good, it never works cause I can't decide where to start. Anyone have any advice on the subject?
What kind of flavor or theme do you want your world to have?
Will the adventures set in this world be of your own design or will you be using published material?
Are you looking to design an entire world, or an area suitable to fulfill the needs of a campaign?
What races will be found in this area?
If you have reference aids, like a PHB, they generally give you the info in the best order. If not, just do what feels good. I begin with landmasses. Rough sketch those. Add basic mountain chains and major rivers. Off coast, I then chart ocean currents, which gives me and idea of weather pattrens. I can then tell where desert and dense green areas are. Add forrest/jungles, deserts, swamps, etc.
In just about every civilization throughout history, the biggest cities (especially capitals) are almost all on waterways, so...anywhere along rivers, particulary two or more rivers joining, river/ocean deltas and coastal areas (particulary river deltas with large natural bays) get the big cities. Civilization follows the pattern of growing along these same waterways, so trade routes and such generally follow the river and coastal flows. Inland, particularly if there are no nearby rivers, cities that have other natural resources (lots of farm land, iron mines, etc) become cross-roads for those silly straight-line-makes-the-shortest-route merchants. Plot where the best resources are, like gold/iron mines, farm lands, cattle grazing areas, quarries for various stones like gems, marble, ad nauseum. Then sketch in the approximate caravan routes and place cities on the cross-roads, particulary if more that two meet. I figure about 5,000-10,000 population for two trade routes crossing and roll randomly 2d8 x 1,000 additional population for each additonal caravan cross-road. People spread out from these population centers in a roughly circular manner, so once you have a city expand outwards in about 5-mile rings and put in smaller towns, then villages, then pure farm/ranch land. These will also generally crop up on the trade/caravan routes. Everything outside that last super-rural ring is all wild lands, ripe for adventure.
With each city, rough out the government type (monarchy, oligarchy, theocracy, etc.). Bare-bone 3-5 of the primary power-people for each one. Do the same for the surrounding towns and villages. Keep these additional pop centers using the same government style as the home city. Having a monarchy in the capital and a village run by a mercantile (fascist) matriarchy is just wrong and really confuses the players/characters.
Again, start at the major cities and rough in your religion(s), expaning outward in the same manner as for governments. Other specials, like Paladin enclaves, thieves guildes, mage academies, and such can follow the same pattern. It's repetative and taxing, but it works and the result, if you stick with it, can really give you a well-blended feel.
While you're creating all the above, if you have ideas for conflicts between governments, churches, or other groups, note them down for further detail when the above is completed.
After that, it's just a matter of how much detail do you want to do, how much paper to you wanna buy, and how much writer's cramp you wanna deal with.
Do you plan on using this long-term, or just for a short while? The following is geared towards the thought of a long-term project.
My screen name, Saern, is actually the name of the dominant continent on the world that I have been crafting since the 7th grade. The best worlds evolve over time.
I read the Dragonlance Chronicles before I eve knew what D&D was, and they inspired me to start making my own world. When I picked up the dice for the first time, it only made sense to apply the game to what I had already made.
I started mainly with a few extremely simple concepts: knights are here, wizards there, elves over here, put the dwarves there, and make the north end of the map really cold. Then I came up with a bunch of different country names and drew lots of fun, high-detail maps. Then I would find something wrong with them and re-draw them. And again. And again.
Over that time, certain names and ideas and lore has slipped through the cracks of world-redesign and are now key elements of the world. What started as a 7th grader's pseudo-Dragonlance knockoff has now taken on a life of its own, with cultures and histories and geographies and themes totally unique to my own world.
The point of all this rambling is to not worry about it too much. I would suggest starting with either an extremely broad idea/view, probably not too far from "standard" fantasy, unless you really like alternate stuff. Get a general, extremely basic idea about the shape of the continent, but nothing too permanent or defined. Then start thinking about a campaign and detail a small area as needed for the game. Then expand out from there as the ideas move you. You may then have a concept for a land or people or place or something that you want in the game world, but doesn't need/shouldn't be too close (geographically) to what you've already done (if you're working on the "viking" cultures, don't plop an Egyptian-themed land right next to them unless you intend to explore the obvious questions this raises).
Then think about where these people came from. Get an idea in your head. A demon invasion, a fallen empire, a lich king, a rampaging dragon, a horde of orcs, the death or birth of a god, racial tensions and wars, the sky is the limit. Mundane or fantastic, just think of something cool that happened, then ask how the people of the affected region (or the entire world) reacted to it. Then just ask, what happened after that? And after that? And then? Soon, you've built up an interesting history with exotic and mundane details that tells how your world came to be the way it is.
Creation myths are overrated. Every race will claim different things, and trying to make a unified myth might feel cliche, or drive you insane trying to make it not cliche. So just forget about it for the moment. If you don't draw attention to the fact that you haven't made one, no one will notice.
Geography. I can't stress how important geography is to developing a campaign world. Yet so few people realize how big this element really is. D&D worlds typically need diversity. You want your players to be able to fight goblins in the lowlands and then go to the mountains to destroy the giant masters, so there better be some mountains in a reasonable distance! Perhaps the campaign would be suited well by some sea travel. I hope you put the ocean nearby.
The shape of the land is so important to both D&D gameplay and just the general development and concept of the world. All you can do is think about some end desire (two different and hostile peoples nearby, but you don't want constant warfare in the game, so put some mountains between them; great, now put in dragons or dwarves or giants or all three!), and just tinker, tinker, tinker, until it feels "right."
Building a world for a D&D game can be one of the longest, most-painstaking tasks that one ever sets out on for pure entertainment's sake, but when it's done and done right, the joy you recieve from having built a whole world is immense.
Thanks for the quick responses. I came back to check if there were any responses before I headed off to bed. and for the longer replies, I've just quickly glanced over them. I'll be back in the morning to do a more detailed read through.
my goal for this world would be for it to double as a DnD campaign setting, and as just a setting I can work on my writing in. If I have specific notes about a fantasy world, it's easier to write stories in it, rather than just write from scratch. (not that the I couldn't use both to feed off each other).
It all depends on your creative process. You can start with ancient history and work your way up to the point at which the players start or you can begin designing the world in the player's time. Don't start with a creation myth; it will just sound lame and cheesy if you try at it. If you just start building your world it will probably come to you (most likely when you are sleep deprived or after having had way to much coffee). I usually start by figuring out what the cool events in the history and mythology are, what cool people, nations and affiliations there are and what interesting geographical locations there are. The rest often falls into place after that. I agree with Saern that geography is very important. It is extremley helpful to have a map to look at so you can visualize where everything is.
My two coppers.
I say unto thee..."Go forth and seek out Zen and the Art of Dungeon Mastery," for it is good, and full of useful World Creation Tips, not to mention that-which-is-also-good, Roleplaying Tips.
Okay, So I'm going to try to design my own homebrew campaign setting. But I don't know where to start. Do I start with a creation myth, do I start with deities, with geography, nations and politics?
Any of those approaches (or others such as ethnic/social descriptions or variant rules like different classes, unique races/subraces, or spellcasting mechanics) can work. It depends on what you feel comfortable with or encapsulates the campaign's primary theme(s) or conceptual hook(s). The biggest thing to decide once you start is what am I going to use from the core books and supplements. It is very difficult to create a comprehensive setting that incorporates everything from every supplement that's been published. Often, it's best to limit your initial design to a single area (nation, region, or continent) and expand to different areas later (revising earlier material to add/change interactions between the new areas and the old).
yes, but if you like to allow your characters choice in where they start their campaign they need to know about the varied landmasses or ntions. Even if you don't it's always nice to know where the characters are going when they say "we're going South".
In my world I started with an idea for the world, drew the continents, filled in with mountains and rivers, then added cities and trade routes, then finally added massive forests.
From there I came up with ideas for several different major cultures and wrote the ideas down on notecards just in case. After that I worked on one small region and "zoomed in" on it with a different far more detailed map that showed the characters starting town and the surrounding towns, cities, and places of interest.
I then detailed their starting town and the closest other town, when the characters got to the next town, you do the same, hopping 1 step ahead of the players, even if they go to the wrong town or city you cn often use the same notes, jus change the original later if it's needed.
Oh and make shure this minimap has plenty of geological diversity; forests, mountains, rivers, and swamps are genreally excellent and allow for a somewhat realistic and interesting environment for the characters to explore.
Ater all that if you are still feeling up to it sketch the terretorial borders of the separate towns and cities, don't forget that a goblin village is stil a village and may have competing interests with other "savage species" as well as civilized folk.
hmm, seems like we have done this before.
start with one village of about 300 either mostly agrarian or fishing with some supplement from the other; with one prime culture; and maybe a few homogenous members of an older culture that has mostly been absorbed or pacified for some time. That will give your players a bit of background variation to choose from. Choose one main cultural/local diety and maybe one minor one for the other group; then decide how faithful or serious the communty as a whole is about it as it will color their outlook. The more serious the more feasts, times of worship; and more organized they will be.
come up with a problem the town faces that heroes are needed; the town council has got together a reward for anyone who can solve the problem; be it raiders killing and stealing cattle, graves being robbed on a alarming scale, people dissappearing, whatever. Make up about 9 councilers with personalities and have little cliques for them. Make the reward only partially monitary; maybe some coin, some cattle; some sheep; some rugs; whatever, remember this is a village and they probably barter and dont have a robust economy.
getting the pc's together - come up with a premise; mabye they all know each other and are friends who talk it over on night outside the inn as everyone could use a income supplement and be a hero in the community. Maybe land would sweeten the pot for the pcs to build homes; shops; whatever.
create a protagonist, background, power level and abilities and current resources; is he alone or part of a larger network; he needs a goal - like taking over the village, gathering resources; whatever; this could be a displaced orc band moving through and raiding; or a necromancer setting up and getting his thing started, some predatory monster that has moved into the area and is eating cows, people, fish... maybe is raids from some aquatic enemies that are starting a new colony; could be anything.
this is how most of my new games start or some variation; if you are just starting you probably dont have any cities which can be very complex; start with a village or town that maybe has only a few specialists like a blacksmith, healer, leatherworker, weaver, mill, inn combo general store and pub, maybe a couple other specialists like a candlemaker who also sells honey or someone who makes and sells oil for lamps and stuff and maybe a woodworker mabye who also makes boats under contract and a thatcher. Each of these probably have apprentices and most of the other people will be farmers or fishermen who spend a little time hunting and are mostly self sufficient.
set this village in a land somewhere then choose how much goverment oversight it has; mabye there is a local squire; lord or baron; maybe they are not knowingly in some political map; make up a few other villages that are between 10 and 20 miles away; mostly the names and a few of the well known personages like the mayor, miller, healer, each of these villages would probably have some specialists that would service all the towns like a tinker (guy who fixes pots and sharpens knives; does odd jobs from town to town) some delivery wagon service, grain, beer, lumber, bricks; up to you; start smallish. 3 to 5 village names are what most townspersons can name, mabye a few people like the mayor have been to 1 other or more; the villages probably have a gentlemens agreement to lend aid to each other through the town councils; mabye you get word from another town for help that was brought in by the tinkers who were hired to deliver it. Stuff like this is a good way to start the game; just develop as needed.
Basically, there are two appoaches to world-building: Top-down or bottom-up.
Top-down: You start with the big picture and add more and more detail. Pro: Consistent world. Con: Takes quite some time before game starts. Do this if you like your stories well-planned.
Bottom-up: You start with a small area ( a village) and add elements as needed (as your campaign expands). Pro: Quick-start Campaign. Con: Inconsistencies possible, needs time between sessions. Use this if you are comfortable with improvising.
Stefan
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I've found bottoms-up works good for a lot of reasons: you can flesh out a small area easily and relatively quicker than one big world, and it's easier to ditch or retcon on the fly if things don't work out or if a massive inspiration that has to be comes along while you're in the midst of the creative process, or the muse starts talking to you as the game is going down. This is how my brain works though, others might work totally differently.
lol top down bottoms up sounds more like a drinking game or something even more interesting; me, I just have to many ideas flotting around and have to write out adventures or my head my split open like Zues in the old myth and who knows what will come out. For me, I set a general plot; make a champion of that plot; add antagonists; protagonists; don't care a bit ists, the add sub plots; alternative plots; tertiary plots; graveyard plots, stuff than falls with the sound of plots...uh, I better stop now. Drat, just thought of another adventure and gotta write; laters, you tell me a premise; I could easily give you 10 plots; hehe is plot the word of the day?
and dont get me started on archtypes :) best thing going for new world building.
I have to agree with the bottom-up people here for the most part. Start where the characters are going to be. And spread outward with their adventures.
No, this doesn't mean you can't have a core idea for a city or world. But instead of focusing on a huge world and narrowing it all down, you and your players can flesh out the grttier details of the world as they progress.
It's easier to start and helps the players feel involved and the characters more part of the world.
As a semi-pro writer and veteran DM, my suggestion is to start with a central locale to begin the campaign. Make this locale a focal point for the campaign, a home base if you will. Flesh out the place in some good detail, add some secrets and hooks and plots to keep the PCs there for a while. As the game progresses from session to session, you can start building things ahead of them based on where the game goes.
Flesh out the personalities, goals and most important stats for the locals and build a central villain to occupy the players, even if the first few adventures deal with unrelated events or minions of the villain.
If you work out too much ahead of time, you risk the PCs de-railing your plans (or worse, wasting your time writing filler that's not important) so keep it open-ended and let them think they're going in the right direction.
Most of the time, if they're good players, they'll set things up for you to take advantage of by virtue of their actions.
As far as the world is concerned, don't go into too much detail about the world at large - as long as its in your head or in your personal notes, you can relay the info when asked or simply make it up on the spot. Remember, in a typical medieval setting (as was true medieval times), most people don't travel more than a day or two ride from their homes.
First post so please bare with me :)
I agree with many of the posts here about starting small and building the world like growing a tree - start with the seed and let it grow.
The first adventure should be the local town where the characters are based (or tower, or city etc as it may be).
Introduce the local healer as a worshipper of such and such a god; have an evil god worshipping guild. But in both cases you don't need to write down all the details about the god, you simply need a name.
As the story progresses the details will flesh themselves out. There is nothing worse than detailing a full cult only to have the characters go a completely differant way ('the evil guild hall is to the East' 'yeah, but the castle of death is to the West - we'll go west').
Then treat the world as a jigsaw puzzle, adding the next piece as the characters gravitate towards it.
Adding background information as you see fit ("Your friend Davi needs your help", "Davi? never heard of him", "you were neighbors and his mum used to babysit you when your parents needed to go to the next town on business." "Yeah? then I have to help my childhood buddy").
Most details can be simple at this time ("Who runs this country?", "the council of seven", "cool"). Later on this can be expanded if the characters need to know; if they ask to know who the seven are on this council then reply - how many politicians can you name? I personally know my state MP (Member of Parliament) and my federal MP - but I couldn't tell you anymore MP's (except who the leader is!)
The point is - the characters don't need to know everything, especially at the start.
The best example of this is the basic D&D books, the first book (basic - red?) concentrated on your home town and local dungeons.
The second book (expert - blue?) introduced Horses, travel and far away cities.
All the way up until the fifth book (Immortal - gold?) which introduced dietys and immortals.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the colours of the books as it was 30 years ago when my brother and I bought them and played them (and used them until they feel apart!).
James
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I generally use a technique I'll call "outside in". Much of this is the sort of bottom up design that others have discussed above. The difference is that I think it's important to also address some bigger issues.
Designing the local area tells you a lot about people who are "from around here", but you should also have an idea about what to do with people who are "not from around here". Where are they from? What do they believe? How to you get "there" from "here"? Why would you want to?
The big point, though, is to spend most of your initial design time figuring out things that directly affect the characters. What might their characters believe? What's the local climate? What are the names of the people they will meet early on? What problems will the PCs be presented with first? What's the general tone of the game?
FWIW, in addition to Roleplaying Tips (mentioned above), I'll recommend the DMG II and Robin Laws's "Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering". They say pretty much the same things you've read on this thread, but with more detail, better writing, and lots of examples.
hehe I am with Iron_Stormhammer as that is exactly how I approach the game and believe story is everything; and a story board is critical for a gm. I dont get this bottomupdowninsideoutrevereseunderbelly talk; hehe is like a whole nother language. :)
Interesting Orcus avatar; be sure to visit the avatar thread and tell us why you picked it; I would never have thought Orcus was red.
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I'd like to chime in with Valegrim. Most of your "world-building" won't even be noticed by the players. They are (OK, I generalise, but it holds true for my lot) are looking for an adventure -something to kill, basically. So spending lots of time on background that will be completely ignored could be a bit of a waste. So you only really need to detail what they will see next. By all means hold in your head some outlines of where you want things to go. Bu writing something like the FR Sourcebook BEFORE you begin will be a chore and a bore, quite possibly - you want to DM a D&D group, not write an academic tome.
Also, try to have a campaign plotline (or series of plotlines) in mind. Let the story steer the worldmaking, rather than the other way round. That way, you can focus your effort on the bits that need doing first.
Of course, if just writing this stuff up is your thing, then great - ignore all of the above. But I suspect it isn't, otherwise you wouldn't have the original problem. And as also pointed out above, most "deep" campaign worlds are the work of years of tinkering, not a single braindump one evening. So it is unrealistic to expect it to just well up over a couple of nights.
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I like to start with a wolrd map and maybe a basic outline for pantheons. Then I do some city/kingdom basics. Then I do some history, putting in some basic stuff, and adding in a few random, off-the-top-of-my-head things. After all this I go for details, usually starting with at least one city/realm and working outward as I need to.
Incidently, I find the random crap thrown into an historical account often helps me to develop some interesting stories. For example, on the dmtools website that Lilith runs, under the realm of Shandura - in the timeline I originally out in some random event called the Plague of Eyes. I didn't know what it was, but it sounded cool. I think someone else picked up the idea and ran with it.
Anyway, that's my 5 cents for now
I know there was a similar thread to this about a year ago, but i can't find it so i'll briefly reiterate what i posted there... I find myself (again) agreeing with Doug. What most posts thus far have hinted at is a bottom-up approach. Start with a couple of kernels of a small town setting and start stacking concepts, action, and storyline on top of that. I've come to find that the bottom-up approach lends to much more linear story plot and adds significantly to the GM's control of the game itself. If the players aren't cognizant of things like how the cosmos is structured (or thought to be structured), the complete panthion of gods, the approximate era of the campaign setting, systems of government, cultural norms, etc...if they don't have a grasp of those ideas before the first session is underway, the relitive creative input for each player is confined to how the campaign unfolds on a time gradient. This is controlled by the GM.
The top-down approach involves creating and dissiminating all (and more) of the items that i listed above for all players and the GM to use before the first game session in a campaign. Consider them creative gaming tools. For the GM, the details of how kingdoms have risen and crumbled, the mythology of the gods, creation of the universe etc....that can (and perhaps should) be kept from the players, but a general understanding of the world that the PCs live in is vital to enhance the playing and gaming experience for all arond the table. To this end, i would suggest composing a brief prelude to the campaign, outlining generally the scope of all of the player's knowledge of their world A brief example:
All of the players might agree that race, culture, and location are tied together in a campaign. In the prelude, the GM should explain how core races are grouped according to location and how, historically, this has come to be. I 'm not talking about writing a novel, but a few solid pages of world history and general knowledge is key for a solid top-down constructed world.
It will also encourage more input and role playing opportunities for all of the players instead of having the GM hold all of the plot cards.
As ever,
ACE
Alternately, just go through the core rules, everything from spell mechanics to monster descriptions, and see what you don't like and want to change. Then see if any of this gives you some idea.
It really is a process without clear formulas. Many different people can come up with wildly different ways to develop very good worlds that are quite different from one another. So, just go to it, and let your imagination guide you. One solid thing, though: never, ever, EVER "force" any part of your world. Only design and build as your inspiration moves you. Otherwise, you'll feel distanced and detached from some part of your work, and/or will hate it and later just seek to get rid of it somehow.
Also, yes, most of the details about your homebrew will be unnoticed. However, there can be some reasons for putting them in anyway. Even if your gaming group isn't a bunch of deep-immersion roleplayers, it's still nice when they say, "what's this?" or "why's that?" and you don't have anything prepared, but you can pull out some bit of lore from the rest of the world, or know it well enough to invent something on the spot. It sounds minor, but it really helps the players feel like you're in control and know what you're doing, and certainly helps the game more than "Uh, I don't know, I never really thought about it, just forget it, it's not important anyway."
Also, putting in those little details can give the inspiration for many, many plots that would be hard to come up with otherwise. The players may not be conscious of how much they appreciate it, but my guess is that they will. Even for the most self-avowed munchkin power-gamer; which would he prefer, a random and disconjoined series of "adventures," or the finely honed machine of an adventure path like AoW or Savage Tide? The second one gives everyone a clearer sense of what in the world is going on, and by addind such details to a world, you can replicate a large amount of this.
It also gives something for your players to latch on to, if they're so inclined, and "anchor" themselves in the world. This can lead to much more enjoyable experiences for the players.
And, as was said before, it's great to know where "down south" really is when the players want to go there.
Finally, though the players may totally miss the nuances, this is a game that the DM is supposed to enjoy, too, and perhaps the DM gets off on knowing all these little bits and pieces of lore, even if it doesn't matter in the long run. This sounds even more applicable in your case, since you want to do some writing based on this setting.
This is compatable with both top-down and bottom-up world building. Of course, you can skip all of this and still have a great game; this is just what works for me.
I'm going to go against the grain and say that I would go with the bottom down approach. The big benefit with the top up approach is that its small and we can get to the gaming without having to worry about much as we really don't need to know much about our world when we start gaming. OK that's fine if you don't really have much of a world building bug and just want to game. But in this case one might as well use some of the excellent campaign worlds already available such as Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or Eberron.
The problem with bottom up is that usually you end up with Forgotten Realms redux. Its just another cookie cutter fantasy world. If one wants something really interesting - something that feels different from gaming in the Dales one starts from the top and picks some kind of guiding theme for their campaign world. Something that sets it apart from the cliché of standard swords and sorcery fantasy gaming. Even if your goal is to make mostly standard sword and sorcery gaming you should be looking to take some kind of a spin on that. One wants an interesting look and feel for their campaign world and to get that one usually has to go with a top down approach. So step one – pick a look and feel for your campaign world. In fact if your not excited by the idea of some cool theme or look and feel for your world I'm not sure why your even bothering to make a home brew. There are better options out there if your not making this because your juiced about some great idea for a campaign world. I mean this sort of thing is a lot of work – use some one elses work if your not planning on exploring any new ground. I'm sure, looking over what's professionally out there would bring to light a really cool fantasy world that you would love to game in if your not doing this because your excited about developing something cool and unique of your own. I mean I love my homebrew and have been working on it for decades but I still find myself sometimes looking at Midnight or Iron Kingdoms and thinking to myself that these themes are totally cool and its too bad I'm not gaming in these worlds. There is great stuff out there that will stop your players in their tracks and open their eyes with wonder. If you don't have something similar to offer your players then why bother? Don't sell yourself short - start with the premise that what your going to design is something thats as cool and unique as what the professionals out there do for their worlds. If that kind of thing does not interest you then I'd jump on their band wagon and go play in one of their worlds.
I'd also say that creation myths of some kind are pretty important or you, again, end up with essentially cliché swords and sorcery themes and might as well save yourself the bother by going with a standard campaign setting. Your creation theme is going to ultimately inform everything else about your world. The really big campaign themes are going to come from this source or from the history of the campaign world. In theory you can tack this stuff on after you have made your initial starting village but you've already established so much with this village that it can be really hard to get away. I'd not let this dumb village tie your hands. I'd make the look and feel of the campaign world inform the creation of the village – not the other way around. Better to have a really cool and unique village for your players to explore then start with a totally mundane village and end up with a mundane world for the players to explore.
If your really keen mainly on doing something bottom up I'd start with the big picture and develop them in some fashion before switching to back down to the village. I expect you'll immediately find that your village takes on a whole unique life of its own once the big themes of the campaign are worked out. Its not what's normal and mundane in your fantasy world that will stick out but what's unique and unusual. If your world is a jungle world that will heavily influence your village. If there is something unusual about the Gods in your campaign world your going to see that at the village level. While the village will never be the height of technology for your world it be here that the worlds technology level and economic system are introduced. It makes a difference if your world is high or low magic. If its technologically in the 7th, 11th or 15th centuries. If its economic system is advanced or primitive... etc. etc. It makes difference if the peasants are boldly pushing the frontier back and opening up the wilderness or the remnants of another, better, time barely holding on as the monstrosities of the world drive civilization before them.
At the end of the day what happens in your village will decide the look and feel of your entire campaign world and if your interested in anything beyond 'collection of every other sword and sorcery cliché ever made' your going to have to decide what's different because your players will visit the blacksmith in that first session - they will talk with the NPCs and if you don't have something else worked out your going to wing it and fall back on stereotypes. Its harder to get out of the stereotypes once you have set them as precedent then it is to establish a unique look and feel from the get go.
I think that it says something that bottom up approaches to campaign creation are virtually non existent among professionally designed campaigns in the modern era. Iron Hero's to Midnight, to Eberron on to Poltus etc. all start from the top and work their way down - I suggest you do the same.
Do a search for something called Dungeon Craft Articles in Google. If you can find them they give out some pretty good advice on starting from the top and then quickly switching back to a bottom up approach in order to get the show on the road.
Lilith's suggestion of checking out the Role playing tip articles is a good idea as well. Follow that along and you will have fleshed out many things in your campaign. However I'd use this resource as a way of fleshing things out. Essentially of covering all your bases - not the starting place for a campaign world. You want your unique campigns look and feel to help provide interesting and exciting answers to these questions.
One alternitive option I have seen mentioned but not on this thread. Don't design your homebrew at all. Make your players design it. Your job becomes one of editing and tying varous themes together into some kind of cohesive whole but this can be an awarding experience for your players.
Make sure that this sort of thing appeals to your players however. Your asking them to do a lot more then just belly up at teh table if they are supposed to design the places and themes that form the backdrrop of their characters. Make sure that most of them are into this idea before you embark on this road. It can be rewarding for the players if their into it - but, I suspect, that it can also seem really shallow if they don't want to put in the extra effort.
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I'm going to go against the grain and say that I would go with the bottom down approach. The big benefit with the top up approach is that its small and we can get to the gaming without having to worry about much as we really don't need to know much about our world when we start gaming. OK that's fine if you don't really have much of a world building bug and just want to game. But in this case one might as well use some of the excellent campaign worlds already available such as Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or Eberron.
The problem with bottom up is that usually you end up with Forgotten Realms redux. Its just another cookie cutter fantasy world. If one wants something really interesting - something that feels different from gaming in the Dales one starts from the top and picks some kind of guiding theme for their campaign world. Something that sets it apart from the cliché of standard swords and sorcery fantasy gaming. Even if your goal is to make mostly standard sword and sorcery gaming you should be looking to take some kind of a spin on that. One wants an interesting look and feel for their campaign world and to get that one usually has to go with a top down approach. So step one – pick a look and feel for your campaign world. In fact if your not excited by the idea of some cool theme or look and feel for your world I'm not sure why your even bothering to make a home brew. There are better options out there if your not making this because your juiced about some great idea for a campaign world. I mean this sort of thing is a lot of work – use some one elses work if your not planning on exploring any new ground. I'm sure, looking over what's professionally out there would bring to light a really cool fantasy world that you would love to game in if your not doing this because your excited about developing something cool and unique of your own. I mean I love my homebrew and have been working on it for decades but I still find myself sometimes looking at Midnight or Iron Kingdoms and thinking to myself that these themes are totally cool and its too bad I'm not gaming in these worlds. There is great stuff out there that will stop your players in their tracks and open their eyes with wonder. If you don't have something similar to offer your players then why bother? Don't sell yourself short - start with the premise that what your going to design is something thats as cool and unique as what the professionals out there do for their worlds. If that kind of thing does not interest you then I'd jump on their band wagon and go play in one of their worlds.
I'd also say that creation myths of some kind are pretty important or you, again, end up with essentially cliché swords and sorcery themes and might as well save yourself the bother by going with a standard campaign setting. Your creation theme is going to ultimately inform everything else about your world. The really big campaign themes are going to come from this source or from the history of the campaign world. In theory you can tack this stuff on after you have made your initial starting village but you've already established so much with this village that it can be really hard to get away. I'd not let this dumb village tie your hands. I'd make the look and feel of the campaign world inform the creation of the village – not the other way around. Better to have a really cool and unique village for your players to explore then start with a totally mundane village and end up with a mundane world for the players to explore.
If your really keen mainly on doing something bottom up I'd start with the big picture and develop them in some fashion before switching to back down to the village. I expect you'll immediately find that your village takes on a whole unique life of its own once the big themes of the campaign are worked out. Its not what's normal and mundane in your fantasy world that will stick out but what's unique and unusual. If your world is a jungle world that will heavily influence your village. If there is something unusual about the Gods in your campaign world your going to see that at the village level. While the village will never be the height of technology for your world it be here that the worlds technology level and economic system are introduced. It makes a difference if your world is high or low magic. If its technologically in the 7th, 11th or 15th centuries. If its economic system is advanced or primitive... etc. etc. It makes difference if the peasants are boldly pushing the frontier back and opening up the wilderness or the remnants of another, better, time barely holding on as the monstrosities of the world drive civilization before them.
At the end of the day what happens in your village will decide the look and feel of your entire campaign world and if your interested in anything beyond 'collection of every other sword and sorcery cliché ever made' your going to have to decide what's different because your players will visit the blacksmith in that first session - they will talk with the NPCs and if you don't have something else worked out your going to wing it and fall back on stereotypes. Its harder to get out of the stereotypes once you have set them as precedent then it is to establish a unique look and feel from the get go.
I think that it says something that bottom up approaches to campaign creation are virtually non existent among professionally designed campaigns in the modern era. Iron Hero's to Midnight, to Eberron on to Poltus etc. all start from the top and work their way down - I suggest you do the same.
Do a search for something called Dungeon Craft Articles in Google. If you can find them they give out some pretty good advice on starting from the top and then quickly switching back to a bottom up approach in order to get the show on the road.
Lilith's suggestion of checking out the Role playing tip articles is a good idea as well. Follow that along and you will have fleshed out many things in your campaign. However I'd use this resource as a way of fleshing things out. Essentially of covering all your bases - not the starting place for a campaign world. You want your unique campigns look and feel to help provide interesting and exciting answers to these questions.
I think that is fair enough if you have years, or started ages ago, or are experienced in that sort of thing. But if you just want to start, going top-down is tricky. I find that it is important to have a plot in mind - i.e. what are the PCs actually going to do - and build the world from what they will interact with.
I remember the old Rolemaster books and their guidance on world-building - very top-down. You were busy designing continents and weather patterns, when actually you really need a tavern where the PCs meet. I never even got a campaign going from that at all. Top-down is great if you really know what you want to do - but again, the OP wouldn't post if that was the case.
And, as a start off, what is wrong with a bit of ripping off FR or Greyhawk? FR is, at least in part, a Tolkien rip-off (elves on a island to the west - hmm, where did that come from?) and I don't think that is a problem. Originality is not the be-all-and-end-all, it's more about playing and having fun. Stressing about being "original" could be a big block to creativity.
So I would have a campaign plot outline and work out what that would require in terms of setting to make it work at a high level (and can be done mostly in your head). Flesh out the details for the next session and maybe the one after, but don't get bogged down. The big campaign settings are intimidating rather than inspirational sometimes - keep it simple to start with.
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My opinion on this is just to start with the thing that most inspires you to create a homebrew in the first place. If you're not running one of the core worlds, there is obviously something special that you're looking for from your world that the cores don't offer. I try to have several tasks running at the same time on a project as large as world-building, just to keep me energized on the project. Work on map concepts one day, technology the next, races, religions, or whatever - all with a constant eye toward the 'feel' you're trying to achieve.
Start with a brainstorm of concepts - whether they're big concepts like geography/cosmology, or small concepts like a detail you want to bring out in a specific adventure. If you write it all down, you'll remember to work it in eventually. And the list will guide you to the right level of changes. Once you've finished the list of what you really care about, you can fill in the gaps by ripping things out of other existing worlds.
Of course, I'm pretty scatterbrained in my approach - so it may not work for someone with a more methodical mind...
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Whenever I try to actually sit down and come up with something good, it never works cause I can't decide where to start. Anyone have any advice on the subject?
To answer the question more directly - Just Start! Steven King once wrote something about how to start writing that kind of inspired me in this way. Trying to plan something like a novel-sized story in advance is just not worth it. You will end up with analysis-paralysis. Just sit down and start. By starting the piece, no matter how crappy it is at first, you will have primed the creativity engine. It's art - not science!
I echo Aubrey. You need not decide that your game is going to groundbreaking in order to want to make a homebrew. If you plan on publishing something and want an edge in the market, it's a good idea, but hardly a necessity for a personal setting. Now, you're planning on writing some books set in this world, too. That can motivate both ways. If you want to emphasize a different form of world in your stories, then yes, you need "something" to set yours apart. If you are more interested in telling a story of your own, and the world is kind of just a fun backdrop, then go ahead with the stereotypes.
If someone looked at all that I've done on my homebrew, they'd probably liken it to the Forgotten Realms. Heck, I liken it to the Forgotten Realms. I want that type of world to play in. I'm not trying to escape anything. I just have this creative urge to make my own stuff. I've tried going to a Forgotten Realms campaign, but I always feel "lost," whereas I'm quite comfortable and know "where things are" in my homebrew.
The only distinguishing features are the unique geographies, histories, and environmental/political settings, all of which are very "standard" fantasy. That and what I feel is a more synchronized and internally consistent view of the races and cultures of "standard" fantasy worlds.
I don't even have my own gods. I look to the core gods and the Complete Divine. Deity creation just hasn't been high on my list historically. Over the last few months, the history and cultures of my worlds have started taking on such a life that I've turned my attention more towards this, but it's more of an on-going back-burner project that I'm excited about, but in no hurry to get done.
Yes, it's really all about the fun you have. So, do whatever seems the most fun!
... I would never have thought Orcus was red.
He isn't, he's just embarrased that he hasn't made an appearance in an adventure path yet!
Start at the begining.
Develop a creation story for your world. then build arround that creation myth.
I think that is fair enough if you have years, or started ages ago, or are experienced in that sort of thing. But if you just want to start, going top-down is tricky. I find that it is important to have a plot in mind - i.e. what are the PCs actually going to do - and build the world from what they will interact with.I remember the old Rolemaster books and their guidance on world-building - very top-down. You were busy designing continents and weather patterns, when actually you really need a tavern where the PCs meet. I never even got a campaign going from that at all. Top-down is great if you really know what you want to do - but again, the OP wouldn't post if that was the case.
I think your exaggerating the difficulties here. The idea that every single detail must first be decided before the game can be started is flawed. Certainly the more details that are decided the more depth your world will have but it is a case of diminishing returns. However, unless the goal is Forgotten Realms Lite, some work in the top down approach will pay big dividends in creating an interesting and unique campaign world.
I mean I can probably pull something out of my butt off the top of my head that makes a good starting place for crafting out a world. How about...My world is an Ice Age planet that's built on top of the ruins of an many unique ancient and advanced civilizations. For some reason the Gods abandoned this world eons ago and the world has been freezing ever since. The role of Gods in this world will mostly be taken over by nature spirits. Some of whom are quote powerful and can grant up to 9th level spells and such. Fey will be prominent because they are close to the nature spirits, their minor nature spirits themselves. They'll be similar to the ones we know and love except that they are generally cold adapted. Themes like survival against the elements are going to be emphasized in this world as are civilizations based on scavenged technology - much of which is being put to new and unique uses. Also some kind of a clash between concepts of progress and the desire for the Fey to maintain the status quo should come out. Note to self - design 'Winter' Druids as prestige class.
From here I can go on to create my village and a lot of what my village is like will be informed by the above. Given more time I'd work on making some Fey player character races. I want these Fey to be fairly common. Some kind of an scavenger/artificer class or prestige class would work in this world as well.
Given three days of good solid work and I can have the rule books conforming to this world well enough to play, mainly I need to decide what kind of equipment is appropriate for my world before we start and consider the various races I'm going to have in my world. I'll need another day or two for the village and a few more days for the first adventure. OK, so figure a solid week worth of work or maybe 2 and 1/2 if I'm doing this in my free time. Not really that much of an investment of time to lay the groundwork for a unique home brew.
And, as a start off, what is wrong with a bit of ripping off FR or Greyhawk? FR is, at least in part, a Tolkien rip-off (elves on a island to the west - hmm, where did that come from?) and I don't think that is a problem. Originality is not the be-all-and-end-all, it's more about playing and having fun. Stressing about being "original" could be a big block to creativity.
Nothing wrong with stealing liberally from everywhere. I take for granted that we are all pretty much doing that. I mean I can't think of any campaign worlds that don't. Arcana Evolved and Darksun come the closest. But I suspect that one gets a pretty big return on their investment if they use some creativity. At the end of the day campaign themes are going to come out - its the nature of the game - places have technological levels and the humans are organized in some manner in that village. The game will or will not include psionics and that effects things. A little thought ahead of time allows one to choose the theme instead of finding that your gritty 9th century world is infested with Psionic Monks that like to run along the walls and consider the laws of physics to be more like guidelines.
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I think your exaggerating the difficulties here. The idea that every single detail must first be decided before the game can be started is flawed. Certainly the more details that are decided the more depth your world will have but it is a case of diminishing returns. However, unless the goal is Forgotten Realms Lite, some work in the top down approach will pay big dividends in creating an interesting and unique campaign world.
I certainly don't disagree that "something" needs to be put in place first. I prefer something to hang the plot from, and I'm much less interested in rejigging game mecanics, so I'm less "setting"-centric and more plot-centric. Even my settings running about in my head are extension of the plot, rather than the other way round. But that is more my personal preference, I suspect.
I mean I can probably pull something out of my butt off the top of my head.....
And they call me malformed!
..... that makes a good starting place for crafting out a world. How about...My world is an Ice Age planet that's built on top of the ruins of an many unique ancient and advanced civilizations. For some reason the Gods abandoned this world eons ago and the world has been freezing ever since. The role of Gods in this world will mostly be taken over by nature spirits. Some of whom are quote powerful and can grant up to 9th level spells and such. Fey will be prominent because they are close to the nature spirits, their minor nature spirits themselves. They'll be similar to the ones we know and love except that they are generally cold adapted. Themes like survival against the elements are going to be emphasized in this world as are civilizations based on scavenged technology - much of which is being put to new and unique uses. Also some kind of a clash between concepts of progress and the desire for the Fey to maintain the status quo should come out. Note to self - design 'Winter' Druids as prestige class.
Hm. That's pretty good. Winter druids, eh....
From here I can go on to create my village and a lot of what my village is like will be informed by the above. Given more time I'd work on making some Fey player character races. I want these Fey to be fairly common. Some kind of an scavenger/artificer class or prestige class would work in this world as well.
Given three days of good solid work and I can have the rule books conforming to this world well enough to play, mainly I need to decide what kind of equipment is appropriate for my world before we start and consider the various races I'm going to have in my world. I'll need another day or two for the village and a few more days for the first adventure. OK, so figure a solid week worth of work or maybe 2 and 1/2 if I'm doing this in my free time. Not really that much of an investment of time to lay the groundwork for a unique home brew.
I slightly question your timings, not because I disbelieve you but because you are probably a bit practiced at this and have a disciplined approach. It might be useful for the OP (and, let's face it, me) to know in a bit more detail what you would do specifically in those days, so they could focus their effort. Please tell us more, oh bottom-headed sage.
So...we have been kicking this around for a bit; what do you have so far?
Isn't the OP saying that this world's main purpose is as the backdrop to a novel (or something) with hopes it could be tweaked at a later date for actual gaming purposes?
The question when developing this world then becomes what is the plot of your story?
I have undertaken a similar project in the past. I've spent decades developing my own D&D homebrew but when I wanted to write a novel, I actually started all over again. My original story has now expanded into a trilogy and my little backdrop world has evolved into a complex campaign world which could easily be used for role-playing tomorrow (though I've never actually done this since my original homebrew was/is so complex).
The story is going to dictate your design style and will probably end up more of a bottom-up design than top-down, though there will certainly be evidence of both styles.
In my experience, for instance, my original story was about a simple farmer's daughter who acquired a magical sword and rather niavely sets off to adventure. I only originally designed her hometown and (obviously) the surrounding wilderness area where she spends the storyline exploring. Religion, economics, social organization, educational & training opportunities for the "common" man, stereotypes against women, native flora/fauna, status of magic items were all developed but many other aspects of usual world-building were ignored. I had an idea that the King of Rusper (the nation where the story takes place) was a total despot and almost constantly warring with a more noble country, Tanager, situated across a sea (sort of like the Med). Since this subject never really came up in the first story, nor impacted the main character (other than that the government was busy with war and the serfs were largely unsupervised) none of it was mentioned. In the second story, the plot follows the daughter of the original character after the family has fled Rusper and now lives across the sea in Tanager - the one which is hostile to their homeland. Suddenly, I had to develop politics, geography, racial tensions, etc that were completely absent for the first story. The map greatly expanded. In the final story of the trilogy, the main character (son of the second character, grandson of the original character) is caught up in a war between the two nations that ultimately blossoms into somewhat of a "world war" involving elves, dwarves and several previously unmentioned kingdoms. Now the map is complex and the world fully developed.
I slightly question your timings, not because I disbelieve you but because you are probably a bit practiced at this and have a disciplined approach. It might be useful for the OP (and, let's face it, me) to know in a bit more detail what you would do specifically in those days, so they could focus their effort. Please tell us more, oh bottom-headed sage.
Well I'm not going to detail this concept in depth. But if I was I would start with something like the basic premise I have four or so posts above this one.
That's the starting point of my campaign book. I might add sentences to this as time went on but its from here that the basic premise for everything else is being drawn upon.
After this I would go through the core books. Starting with the Players Handbook then the DMG and finally the Monster Manual.
When going through the books I'd have a word processor open so that I could take notes. Some people might prefer to use sticky notes instead - thats fine and a more relaxed way of leafing through the books but your eventually going to have to stick this stuff into a word proccesor so you might as well go with it from the start.
At this point everything just comes down to looking at whats on the page in front of you and asking yourself a couple of questions. #1 Will this stuff work as is? If yes then move on. If no then you end up with a second question. #2 Should I modify this to work? You basically are faced with modifying the game element or tossing it out.
For the Players Handbook your pretty much fine as is for the ability scores but the races need some help. Are there not 'cold' versions of all the races at the SRD? Not sure that there are but I'd be going to check at this stage. If so thats great. Otherwise I'd look over each race and make some notes on how they live in this friged world. Some will probably just be minor rewrites - in a few cases you may be greatly inspired and do a fair bit more. Maybe Half-Orcs are both common, admired and welcome everywhere in this world. Thier sturdiness makes them an admired race. Good Looks might not be as valued as physical sturdiness or some such. Possibly Elves are totally on board with the rest of the Fey and consider the cold world pristine and wonderful. A paradise granted the fey to protect them against the mismanagement of bygone civilizations. The cold is a gift that they seek to protect. You get the idea.
Next we are on to equipment. Might have to throw in snow shoes and such on to this list and maybe yank out some items. I have to decide on technology levels here as well. I'd be careful however of unbalancing the game. Still nothing in my set up indicates that all technology has been lost. Full plate armour is probably rare but presuming enough wealth it can be made. I'd probably go with something like making getting expencive items be little side quests. Its not that you can't get X item. It's just that there are only so many people that make this stuff and getting means going to visit Ergotte two villiges away. Keep the cheap stuff that first level adventures are going to have in the original village or presume that they ordered it before the game started and its arived. You can look to the rest of this stuff after the game has begun. It will help you develop the rest of the local. Hmm...it seems that trading between villages is becoming a real sub-theme in this campaign world. Might want to expand on that.
Etc. throughout the book keeping in mind that much of the time whats there is good enough as is.
Then on to the DMG. Here I really don't expect to do much as the DMG mainly deals with d20 mechanics that are true across pretty much all systems. I do want to look at the cold rules. I might need to expand on them but probably not at this moment unless I want to have a snow storm come up as part of my first adventure. Lets drop in some book marks in this section. If my world is about cold then cold should feature prominantly in my early adventures to set the stage.
There is also some stuff on making classes, prestige classes and races. I'd reread those sections. That sort of thing will come up real soon. Mostly the magic items are fine - I figure many will be found in all these ancient ruins that are lying around. OK to help set the stage for my world lets have lots of old magic items lying about from bygone era's. Now I don't want to unbalance anything at this stage. That's what world rewrites are for - if I like this world and expand on it for my next campaign I'd do a more thorough job, full rewriet of the the equipment list changing the prices for everything, what happens in this campaign will give me a feel for what these prices should be like for next time. What I am going to do here is make coinage rarer in treasure hordes but magic items more common. Hoard value should remain the same but this is a world where its harder to make stuff but easier to find stuff.
Now on to the Monster Manual. Your here for three reasons at this point. You want to look at some of the monsters for use as player races. Especially Fey Folk. Some weak Fey that can be developed as PC races would do a lot of good for this campaign. Also you want to find some good low level cold monsters for your first adventure. Monsters can be naturally cold or you can think of ways that they might have adapted to the cold either naturally or culturally. Many mundane animals - especially dire animals might be good - and fur lines snakes could be cool. Still warm blooded monsters should predominate. This is a world full of Mammals and Fey not Reptiles as a rule of thumb.
So I want to find some monsters that will work for my first adventure and I want to look at some Fey and adapt them as PC races. I figure that's enough to start with.
OK use this sort of thing to inform my village. Make sure that if my players want to go shopping at least some of the stuff they want is not available because they only make alchemists fire three villages over and such like. Also remember to incorporate some caste off technology into the world as well as making it clear how these people live in the cold. This sort of thing can be thought about as you go along in the village building process and maybe especially in a quick review before you call it done.
Its not just a tavern - it needs to house cold weather Yakks that are popular in trade between villages. Also there probably are no real metropolis in this world. The government is village orientated. There are places where Fey interact with other races though and maybe small shrines to various nature spirits are in every room - common tavern room or no. That common tavern room probably has a roaring fire in the centre of it as well - its cold and travellers have to huddle around the fire. Nobody gets separate rooms. Probably no real nobles in this world anyway. Do this with a number of the locals the players are likely to visit early on. You can add to it later as long as you keep the theme in mind.
Now on to the adventure. Early adventures should deal with the themes - so they should have extreme temperature involved and feature cold orientated monsters. The point of the adventure should tie in with aspects of the world as well.