kender rock! dragonlance rocks! why cant people realize that? losers...ALL interestd in EBERRON. and believe it or not, some people actually LIKE FORGOTEN REALMS! stupid...kender rock! so HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! LOSERS........
I like Eberron, but I LOVE Dragonlance. Can't hardly wait for the end of the Taladas Trilogy. The setting calls for a LOT of DM interpretation IMHO, so it's great for control freaks like myself. :-D
yay! at last im not the only 1 who likes it a lot!!!!!!!
Vattnisse, i disagree with u. kenders are WAY better than Fraggle!
I like Eberron, but I LOVE Dragonlance. Can't hardly wait for the end of the Taladas Trilogy.
People still read those books?! LOL! :P
P.S. KENDERS ROCK!
Kenders do rock, but...I am sorry to say that the Kender race is probably what saved Dragonlance...and Raistlin.
Seriously, you know a campaign is bad when you hear the only defense from the fan boys is "It has kenders!" and "Raistlin is uber!" because he happened to be the only Dragonlance character that went beyond 20th level.
No wonder there's so many huge wars and planet-sized dragons taking over Dragonlance every season. No adventurers strong enough to take them down. LOL
That was the only thing about Dragonlance I personally liked and the only reason I kept reading its novels was because of Tasslehoff Burrfoot.
Other than that, Dragonlance is too bland for me. Not as bland as Greyhawk, but a close 2nd. And it totally ripped off Bahamut and Tiamat with the Paladine/Takhisis theme. I'm surprised Gilean wasn't themed off of Sardior.
Kenders do rock, but...I am sorry to say that the Kender race is probably what saved Dragonlance...and Raistlin.
Seriously, you know a campaign is bad when you hear the only defense from the fan boys is "It has kenders!" and "Raistlin is uber!" because he happened to be the only Dragonlance character that went beyond 20th level.
No wonder there's so many huge wars and planet-sized dragons taking over Dragonlance every season. No adventurers strong enough to take them down. LOL
That was the only thing about Dragonlance I personally liked and the only reason I kept reading its novels was because of Tasslehoff Burrfoot.
Other than that, Dragonlance is too bland for me. Not as bland as Greyhawk, but a close 2nd. And it totally ripped off Bahamut and Tiamat with the Paladine/Takhisis theme. I'm surprised Gilean wasn't themed off of Sardior.
The Dragonlance world works ok as a series of novels but are only done best when Weis and Hickman write them IMO. It was awsome while it lasted and sucked me into the (D&D) fantasy genre totally but after 'War of the Twins' it turned into crap.
I enjoyed some of the later novels but none have recaptured the original tone or epic scale of the first two trilogies and I think now their flogging a dead horse...
Best leave it all alone now, like if you pick a scab, its fun and feels nice but it will likely go septic and smell bad over time...
hehe; rolf; I read this and thought this was gonna be a thread suggesting a comic or tv series kid show using Kender and D&D themes for a new Fraggle Rock series; hehe oh my. Now I have that darn theme song in my head and the thread is all about kender worship instead...I always like the knights of solamnia; lot of good stuff in Dragonlance.
Reading the Chronicles trilogy is what really got into D&D. (And I read it 'late' in life.) I then really got into Forgotten Realms, and that was my campaign setting of choice for a number of years. Gave Eberron a try and I'm glad I did, as I really liked a lot of what that setting had to offer. Now I recently re-read the Chronicles trilogy, and it rekindled and renewed my love and interest in DragonLance, but I still enjoy FR and Eberron. Over on the "What D&D game are you doing this weekend-thread" I posted my latest campaign idea, so Kobold Assassin you should read that, tell me what you think.
(I give you a hint, I'm beginning a new DragonLance game.) But I agree with many who posted here, the DragonLance novels are BEST in the hands of Weis and Hickman, although I liked Jean Rabe's "Fifth Age" trilogy, and I am reading the first of the Taladas trilogy right now. Good Stuff.
We're having a great deal of fun with Dragonlance at the moment over at Margaret Weis Productions and Sovereign Press. If you're a Dragonlance fan (or even if you aren't but wonder if there's been anything new to freshen it up) you should check us out!
Cheers,
Cam
I have read nearly every major trilogy in the Dragonlance series over the last six years or so and I honestly believe that Kender have really had a part in my appreciation for the series!
Kender have much more dramatic flair then Halflings IMHO, and I have enjoyed pretty much everything Weis and Hickman have written. Raistlin is Uber by the by :p
Kender have much more dramatic flair then Halflings IMHO, and I have enjoyed pretty much everything Weis and Hickman have written. Raistlin is Uber by the by :p
The problem is that they work a lot better in writing then they do in an actual campaign where they tend to rub the other players the wrong way.
Hey, I'm playing in a Dragonlance campaign. We're doing Dragons of Autumn (the original 1st ed campaign converted for 3rd ed) and only one of the players has ever read any of the books (not me).
So far, I find that Kender do rock.
In our game, Raistlin just died, and we're all really bummed. There's nobody in the entire world who can cast a 'raise dead' or anything to bring him back...
He only had 10 hit points at level 5, poor guy.
Hey, I'm playing in a Dragonlance campaign. We're doing Dragons of Autumn (the original 1st ed campaign converted for 3rd ed) and only one of the players has ever read any of the books (not me).
So far, I find that Kender do rock.
In our game, Raistlin just died, and we're all really bummed. There's nobody in the entire world who can cast a 'raise dead' or anything to bring him back...
He only had 10 hit points at level 5, poor guy.
Well if you do the entire campaign I would be interested in hearing about it. That campaign is definitly interesting and in many ways its the original Adventure Path. But they way it was done was flawed. The DM really has to step up to bat to fix the weak points in the campaign. I've known a lot of DMs who started this campaign over the years in 1st, 2nd and now 3rd edition but I have yet to hear from one who finished it.
Also...straying back to the main topic. Its not really a fair comparison to use Tasslhoff Burrfoot from the Hero's of the Lance as an example of Kenders working in the party. If your playing with the original hero's then the whole set up is such that the rest of the players start with him as one of the companions. Essentially your given a a role to play as a member of the Hero's of the Lance, much like being given a loose scrpt with a lot of space for inovation. One of the preconditions of the script however is that Tasslhoff is part of the team and your required to role play a character that likes him (in their own way and with the possible exception of Raistlin).
Outside of this script though I've never had it work - I think its possible but talk with the other players first and make sure everyone is on board with a Kender 'cause their schtick is to drive the rest of the players insane by 'borrowing' their stuff.
I don't see why I should debate with anyone who would call me a "loser."
-Amber S.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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1. Kender suck. It's not that I've never seen them played right, it's that they can't be played right because the race is inherently a source of intra-party conflict. And annoying.
2. The Dragonlance books suck. They are the original emo fantasy. Everything exciting happens off camera and the stuff that happens on camera is obnoxiously emo. The actual riding of dragons that is implicit in the setting rarely occurs and is poorly done.
3. The campaign setting sucks. Steel for money is a dumb idea even in the face of suspend-your-disbelief D&D economics. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it makes a logical currency. The neopolitan wizards are simplistic and dumb.
That is all.
U know, the scariest thing is a kender. Just go onto www.kencyclopedia.com and you'll see. Dragonlance fans(aka fellow worshipers)u should go onto www.dlnexus.com. its great. then onto 'Humor', then 'Kender Excuse List'. its funny!
Is it just me, or are there fewer posts on this thread than there were on Friday? It seems like one of the other threads started by Kobold Assassin is gone (the one about his character with the possum). What happened?
i know...i have NO idea wat happened to it! i cant seem to find it, no matter where i look!
Senior Software Developer
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Is it just me, or are there fewer posts on this thread than there were on Friday? It seems like one of the other threads started by Kobold Assassin is gone (the one about his character with the possum). What happened?
This is something we do pretty rarely (a few times a year). Kobold Assassin has been a little overenthusiastic in participating in some threads. Some posts have been suppressed to keep the conversation going smoothly. The dead possum thread belonged in the off-topic forums, if it belonged anywhere on paizo.com.
Is it just me, or are there fewer posts on this thread than there were on Friday? It seems like one of the other threads started by Kobold Assassin is gone (the one about his character with the possum). What happened?This is something we do pretty rarely (a few times a year). Kobold Assassin has been a little overenthusiastic in participating in some threads. Some posts have been suppressed to keep the conversation going smoothly. The dead possum thread belonged in the off-topic forums, if it belonged anywhere on paizo.com.
Where can i recover it? can i find it in the off-topic part?
Wow. This is a weird thread but here goes.
I've always thought the Dragonlance setting had juice in it, but that Weis and Hickman are lousy writers for the setting. There are just some authors who can't do serious dark stuff and everything comes off all cheesy and silly and cute. That's the problem here. I'm not sure what emo is...but it's probably that too. Deathgate Cycle is another of their novel series that really should be good and everyone loves it, but which is just killed under the tide of syrupy sweet corny cheesiness. It's a shame too because everyone likes it and some of the ideas actually aren't altogether unsalvagable. It's just these guys can't do serious fantasy. They just can't. They're too lighthearted and skippy about everything. Yerg.
The graphic novel of Dragonlance is actually quite readable, by the way, and has rescued the setting somewhat for me.
As for kenders themselves, I've always liked them. Back in 2nd edition I wished they would just replace halflings with 'em. With 3rd edition they changed halflings enough that I like both.
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While I think its true that Weiss and Hickman were nver the best writers, I still have to say that I enjoyed the Dragonlance books. The setting was different from anything I had previously read, which is what attracted me at first. Like many others, I think Raistlin was an excellent character, and I always enjoyed the kender. I see that someone else mentioned they work better in writing than they do in gameplay, and I have to say I'd agree. My little brother played a kender once, and did so perfectly. He was the most annoying PC I've ever seen.
Anyway, after a while, I thought the world lost something, and after Dragons of Summer Flame I stopped buying the books. I did pick up the first of the "Lost Chronicles" though.
I liked reading the dragonlance books. Especially the war of the twins stuff. I think it was the second trilogy.
You know twenty plus years ago this stuff was fresh and cool. Now when I look at dragonlance source material it is.., well, bland.
Kenders do rock. I think 3rd edition halflings are cooler than ealier editions because of the dragonlance kender. I think the near forgotten Birthright also did it's part in making the 3rd edition D&D halfling cooler
I think the near forgotten Birthright also did it's part in making the 3rd edition D&D halfling cooler
Birthright is one of those absolutely awesome settings--like Dark Sun--that the more you dig into it, the more awesome stuff you find in it. It was just a great setting, too bad it didn't ever get the love it deserved. I'm still set on forcing my gaming group into a Birthright game sometime, just so they can see it for themselves. It really was the setting that most got shafted by the whole "200 different settings so people don't buy any of them" problem TSR had. Shame too. Dang cool setting.
I think the near forgotten Birthright also did it's part in making the 3rd edition D&D halfling coolerBirthright is one of those absolutely awesome settings--like Dark Sun--that the more you dig into it, the more awesome stuff you find in it. It was just a great setting, too bad it didn't ever get the love it deserved. I'm still set on forcing my gaming group into a Birthright game sometime, just so they can see it for themselves. It really was the setting that most got shafted by the whole "200 different settings so people don't buy any of them" problem TSR had. Shame too. Dang cool setting.
So I'm not the only one who has seen Birthright.
A college roommate of mine had the box set. It was a lot of fun just to read.
Dragonlance is a classic world (albeit if the source book needs a little more spice to it)that will live on in the minds of all those who at least read on of the original authors novels. what grasped me was the wonderful blend of action , deep plot hooks and (quit surprizingly) the romantic touch that Hickman and Weis brought time and time again. Recently i amd hooked on the Dark Disciple story line. It has brought something that i would have never guessed would fit into the world of Krynn.....a monk!! O.K. so he might not be as smooth a Jackie Chan but hey, It's a friggin monk!!.......and it also helps that he has a certain kender sidekick that can talk to the dead.... go Weis.
p.s. if you get the chance...meet Margaret Weis in person...she is a wonderful lady!
Behold! I have chosen to bring this thread back and see what happens!
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Behold! I have chosen to bring this thread back and see what happens!
ok here goes;
Kender CAN be roleplayed well, if you prepare to play them beforehand. You need to have the Kencyclopedia (mentioned earleir in this thread) open to the kender pouches page for when you go rummaging through your things, and another window open to the same page's Kender insults page. I could never really enjoy the Hoopak's stats though, Just didn't seem right somehow.
I absolutely love Kender, especially with the afflicted and the regular kender, although I use my own homebrew rules for afflicted kender.
Looks like I missed this thread first time round.
Regarding the Dragonlance world, I wasn’t so keen on the first novel trilogy, really enjoyed the second novel trilogy, then gradually lost interest in the books as they got worse. The adventures were fun to play, too; well, most of them, although the last one in the adventure series (DL 14?) was an anticlimax.Regarding halflings, the only ones I ever liked were the Birthright ones, where they actually had a point, interesting abilities, and an interesting backstory. All other halflings suck. And the 3E background was stupid. Seriously. They’re a bunch of travellers, but in most cities, the most popular race is halflings (who are supposed to be travelling). Why get rid of gnomes, which are interesting, and keep this completely pointless race?! :-(
Regarding kender:
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
Hey, you aren't the first person to fall in love with Birthright halflings, I know one guy who loved them so much, he transplanted them into every world he ever played in. My question: What's so great about them? I'm interested, but I don't have any birthright info.
Freehold DM, here's some information for you.
From the 2E Birthright Rulebook (page 7-8):
“The Halflings aren’t a numerous people, but they are found nearly everywhere humans live. Only a handful of humans know the secret of the halflings’ origin: they once dwelled in the Shadow Realm, a realm of faerie enchantment parallel to Cerilia. That realm was poisoned by the rise of the Usurper, a gathering evil that corrupted their homeland, and they fled to the daylight world to escape his power. A small number of halflings arrived in Cerilia in time to witness the battle of Mount Deismaar. In the early years of the Anuirean Empire, the halflings left their homes one family at a time, virtually trickling into the human lands.”Generally, they fit in among human lands (like 3E halflings, but without the silly travelling thing), although in one of the expansions (Havens of the Great Bay), there is a halfling realm.
Their abilities in 2E were as follows: standard, plus (Rulebook, p. 8; paraphrasing):
“Halflings possess the ability to see into the Shadow World by concentrating for one round. This allows them to detect evil, detect undead, and detect magic (necromancy only) in the real world with a 75% chance of success. This talent functions as per the wizard spells at the fifth level of ability, and can be performed as often as the halfling wishes. By concentrating for one round, a halfling is able to perform all three detections at once.
“Halflings may also note places where the barriers between worlds are thin, and they may use their innate powers to dimension door or shadow walk (at the 10th-level of ability). Three times per week, a halfling may use any combination of these abilities (but cannot shadow walk three times and dimension door three times. The chance of success varies… Halflings will reveal these abilities only to persons they know and trust.”See? Much more interesting.
Wow, that IS interesting. I already have halflings in my homebrew who wander for a reason (because they are physically weaker by comparison and have pissed off a LOT of larger and more powerful creatures over the years, they used divine magic to create the first of the dire animals for protection/transportation), but this sounds cool too. I think there's something missing...like, what was their original world like, and who is this Ususerper chap?