Most of the people I've played with are various shades of Christian, from a practicing Roman Catholic, to the rest of us that were raised to go to church, were confirmed and given the choice of whether or not to go and then decided that sleeping in on Sunday was much more important to us.
Atheist radicalized by the Bush administration.
Athiesm for me, too, I'm afraid.
--Erik
Be afraid, very afraid you godless publisher.
Atheist radicalized by the Bush administration.
Repent and return to the word of God. Bush shall soon be Ceasar and the godless shall weep.
Vegepygmy wrote:
Or, as www.dictionary.com puts it: "An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine."
Atheists (from what I know of them, pleae correct me if I am wrong) are an organized group that hold a specific set of beleifs (the lack of gods or divine power) and try to convince others of the validity of their doctrine. I guess that makes them borderline religous or mabye a borderline political group. When you get down to it everything is a political group. Mabye I'll found a religion, the Politicalists.
I'm afraid I did at least provide a major contribution to the religious discussions/arguments on the rants thread when I posted something that wasn't worded as well as it could have been and someone took offense. I admit I was thinking of a somewhat stereotypical and I thank everyone who contributed to that discussion for helping me to see the error in that stereotype. In future I will refrain myself from posting on possible inflamatory subjects until my mind is clear.
I assume you plan the same evidentiary standard to the other areas of your life? E.g., you can't prove the invisible magical mice cause objects to fall, therefore you don't really believe in gravity. You can't prove you are really a person and not a brain in a jar in the Matrix, so therefore you don't really believe you exist.Edit: I always liked this quote from Richard Dawkins:
Well, technically, you cannot be any more than an agnostic. But I am as agnostic about God as I am about fairies and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You cannot actually disprove the existence of God. Therefore, to be a positive atheist is not technically possible. But you can be as atheist about God as you can be atheist about Thor or Apollo. Everybody nowadays is an atheist about Thor and Apollo. Some of us just go one god further.
Nice quote - I was about to get into an argument with you on this point but I don't think I want to get on the other side of this little doozy.
Anyway I'm an Athiest. My players are two I don't know about. A nonpracticing Catholic, two Agnostics and another Athiest.
Atheists (from what I know of them, pleae correct me if I am wrong) are an organized group that hold a specific set of beleifs (the lack of gods or divine power) and try to convince others of the validity of their doctrine. I guess that makes them borderline religous or mabye a borderline political group. When you get down to it everything is a political group. Mabye I'll found a religion, the Politicalists.
Organized implies some kind of broader structure. There are Athiests around that belong to some broader Athiestic organizations I suppose but there sure are not that many and I can't think of any such organization off the top of my head. Furthermore some might well try and convince you of their belief system but there is nothing inherent in Athiesm that requires them to do this and you can just as easily find one that does not believe in talking about religion. They key component is you discount the existance of a higher power after that no common belief or value is shared by all Athiests.
Well, my last group was made up of two Catholics and one Pagan.
Organized implies some kind of broader structure. There are Athiests around that belong to some broader Athiestic organizations I suppose but there sure are not that many and I can't think of any such organization off the top of my head. Furthermore some might well try and convince you of their belief system but there is nothing inherent in Athiesm that requires them to do this and you can just as easily find one that does not believe in talking about religion. They key component is you discount the existance of a higher power after that no common belief or value is shared by all Athiests.
Atheists (from what I know of them, pleae correct me if I am wrong) are an organized group that hold a specific set of beleifs (the lack of gods or divine power) and try to convince others of the validity of their doctrine. I guess that makes them borderline religous or mabye a borderline political group. When you get down to it everything is a political group. Mabye I'll found a religion, the Politicalists.
yeah, I used to frequent a philosophy forum when I was studying. I found there was a common misconception among what I suppose we could call conservative Christians (by the earlier definition), that atheists were organized like a religion and had meetings and stuff where they talked about... well none of them were entirely sure really but they were all certain that it involved plotting to bring down Jesus.
It always baffled me, this pervasive idea among certain kinds of Christians that atheists are some sort of organized anti-church. It made me wonder what other unfounded things these ministers are preaching to their flocks.
Sorry about the off-topic. Personally I'm not even an atheist. I'm a non-theist, like the Buddha. I think God may very well be real (or not), but wondering about it is just a distraction so I'm going to live my life assuming that He isn't.
The best and most effectively reductive take on morality was stated by Salvatore Catalano, one of my teachers, an old Italian guy that goes on huge tangents.
Just look in the mirror and ask yourself one question: Do I hurt people? If the answer is no, then you're not so bad. If you think that question of other people, i.e. "Do THEY hurt people?" and you can say no, then they're not so bad either. Nobody says you have to like them, though.
This is a cool thread. I was reminded of an editor of one of my Mountain bike magazines on his tour through the south and seeing all of the "Jesus Saves" signs and what not.
" Faithand religion are like underwear, It is good to know you've got some, but I don't really want to hear about it."
For my group I've got an ex-submariner (who doen't know what he believes but had too many close calls not to believe), a recovering Mormon (his words not mine), a wiccan, an athiest and me a recent convert: Christian.
I guess I'd have to describe myself as a Methodist, a decision I made when I was about 12, and went back to when I was in my late 20s. I have been a bit less enthusiastic than I used to be about regular church attendance and whatnot due to moving annually and not being able to settle into a congregation I like.
I wouldn't describe myself as being particularly orthodox in my beliefs--I see faith as an individual quest or struggle, not a laundry list of things we have to do or think to be "saved." I wouldn't say that I'm convinced that there aren't other routes to being one with the Creator than the one I've chosen, anyhow, so I tend to be pretty tolerant of others' beliefs, and well aware of my own inability to serve as a particularly good advertisement for my own beliefs. And I think it is fair to say that my outlook on life has been strongly influenced by other philosophies and religions as well, especially Confucianism and Buddhism.
Atheist radicalized by the Bush administration.Repent and return to the word of God. Bush shall soon be Ceasar and the godless shall weep.
It's funny because it's true.
Well, I guess that as long as everyone else is Christian, I can come out saying I'm Satanist without it being stereotypical. I hate that idea.
The rest of my group is agnostics and atheists, though a few are more toward nondenominational Christianity.
Atheists (from what I know of them, pleae correct me if I am wrong) are an organized group that hold a specific set of beleifs (the lack of gods or divine power) and try to convince others of the validity of their doctrine.
Arc, I've been an atheist from the moment I was old enough to ask, "Is there a God?" and in all that time I've never been in, approached by, or even known of an organized group of the type you've described. It just doesn't exist. And if it did, I'd have no interest in joining it. Nor, I suspect, would most atheists. If we were organized, the growing influence of the Christian right in American politics, daily life, and personal affairs might have been more aggressively countered.
As I said, an atheist radicalized by the Bush administration.
It's funny because it's true.Atheist radicalized by the Bush administration.Repent and return to the word of God. Bush shall soon be Ceasar and the godless shall weep.
Oh God I hope not.
My laughter is a nervous laughter.
Tell you what I'll pray, you do what ever it is that athiests do.
What do athiests have faith in? How do you define faith?
I am so clueless about athiests.
I assume you plan the same evidentiary standard to the other areas of your life? E.g., you can't prove the invisible magical mice cause objects to fall, therefore you don't really believe in gravity.
Correct. I can see that objects fall, and I accept the theory of "gravity" as a reasonable explanation for the phenomenon, but I don't believe in it.
You can't prove you are really a person and not a brain in a jar in the Matrix, so therefore you don't really believe you exist.
If I were a brain in a jar, I would exist...just not in the form I had assumed. "I think, therefore I am" is enough proof for me of my existence. That I'm really just a brain in a jar in the Matrix, however, is a possibility I don't reject.
I always liked this quote from Richard Dawkins:
I like that quote, too. But what he calls a "positive atheist" is what I call simply an "atheist." You can call me an "agnostic" or a "Dawkinsian atheist." Makes no difference to me. :)
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No. I mean socialism as a religion.
I know, but I don't have an opinion on the topic, so I made a joke instead. I wouldn't classify socialism as a religion and have difficulty seeing how it could be classified as a religion, but I've never seen the issue raised before so I don't have much of a rationale for my answer.
Well, Camus called it a religion. My point is this: in order to have a "religion" all you require is a believer and a focus of adulation. Atheism could for some be this focus, just as I'm sure there's atheists down there to the atheist meeting just trying to show off and pick up chicks. ;)
Socialism may not be a "religion", but it can be defined as a "metaphysical" belief. To rehash Karl Popper, any belief which cannot be falsified through experiment ("Does gravity exist? I'll jump of a building in an attempt to prove it either way.") is metaphysical, and anything which can be falsified is scientific.
Revolutionary socialism (not exactly trendy these days, but a big deal in Popper's time) says that the proletariat will overthrow the bourgeoise (sp?) eventually. If it doesn't happen, the ardent sociaiist can say that the time isn't right, but don't worry, it will happen in the end. In other words, the notion can't be falsified because there is always a get-out for the believer to explain why the expected phenomena haven't materialised. Thus, it is a metaphyical, unprovable hypothesis. (Popper, you may detect, wasn't a socialist. He - or at least his ardent admirers - also dismissed anything considered to be metaphysics as being beyond rational discussion, which was probably going a bit far.)
Socialism isn't a religion, in my view, in that it doesn't posit any supernatural elements. However, religion is metaphysics - unprovable and unfalsifiable (God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform). That isn't to say that it doesn't have a similar effect as socialism - providing a world view and a code for social organsisation and cohesion. Belief in a metaphysical system, irrespective of its nature, can be defined as "faith" - a willingness to hold on to that belief irrespective of whether it is capable of verification, falsification or whatever.
However, just because it is unprovable doesn't make it uninteresting. These things are interesting from a historical perspective (the impact of belief systems upon history, be they religious or political), as social phenomena and their psychological impact. From the previous sentence, you may guess that I simply don't "get" religion - don't understand the need for people to believe in it, but I'm quite facinated that people do.
And arguably, atheism is metaphysics too - I can't prove God (or whatever) doesn't exist, so I simply have faith that he doesn't. Which is also why I don't have a lot of time for agnosticism. I don't know that God exists, I don't know that he doesn't - no one does, we only have faith in what we believe. So don't say "I don't know" because that is the situation for everyone - what do you believe? Most agnostics are atheists who haven't given it much thought, in my view.
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It's sort of funny to be having this sort of thread. Religion seems to be a much bigger deal in the US than it is in the UK (even with an ardently Christian Prime Minister). I have no idea what the religious denominations of my fellow gamers are, it never crossed my mind to ask, but I have a sneaking suspicion: we always game on a Sunday, and none of us cries off because we have to go to church.
Hardly anyone cares about religion either way in the UK. Church attendances are very low. Overt faith is considered a bit weird and odd (yes, a bit rich from a guy who plays D&D, but there you go). Certainly, most people wouldn't give a damn about your religion either way. There are obvious exceptions in certain communities which have strong cultural ties to particular religions, but with a few high-profile exceptions that is probably fading over time. That's also a tad ironic as, in the US, there is a consitutional demarkation between Church and State, where in the UK the Church of England is a semi-detached organ of the state, with the Archbishop of Canterbury chosen by the Prime Minister.
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I am so clueless about athiests.
I remember a girl at university who became religious while she was there. She seemed to want there to be something out there, some sort of active agency, bigger than herself, that explained "things".
There is some evidence that religious belief stems from a certain part of the brain. Interestingly, when the part of the brain that MAY be responsible for religious feeling is stimulated, you feel a sort of "presence". (They did this on TV to Richard Dawkins - he didn't suddenly become a religious nut, but he did feel a sort of "otherness out there".) I suspect that in atheists, that part of the brain isn't highly developed, whereas it is in those who are inclined to religion.
Now, I don't think this says much about religion, on the face of it. Religious belief may simply be a matter of brain anatomy and chemistry. Or the organ may be a God-detector. Who knows?
But my personal feelings, as an atheist, are that I don't feel the need to proselytise about my "faith", because I'm not actively "non-believing" (probably some lapsed religious types with axes to grind may feel more militiant, but I come from a family of atheists). I feel quite liberated by my non-belief - I don't like the idea of some guy judging my deeds and determining if I'll go to heaven or hell. So, for me, atheism in practice is probably best defined by what is not there - any interest in religion or any passing thought about an external supernatural deity/agency, benevolent or otherwise, in day-to-day life.
I'm actually quite as baffled about those who have faith as those are, presumably, who are baffled by atheism. I respect people's beliefs (philosophy has taught me that, strictly speaking, my atheism is no more valid a belief system than any religion) but I just don't get it at all.
I am a relapsed Wizardcoastian, now Paizonian.
One agnostic here...not sure about the others in my group because: a) It's never come up, and b) Like many Canadians/UKers, religion is something that isn't that big of a deal to me in terms of its place in politics/society (there are many true believers in Canuckistan, just not a lot of those who want to wave it around in the faces of others) and even though I'm currently in the States, I try to bring that philosophy with me...I belive Carlin referred to it as the 11th Commandment: Thou shalt keep thy religon to thy expletive deleted self ;-) ;-)
Cheers,
Colin
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Atheists (from what I know of them, pleae correct me if I am wrong) are an organized group that hold a specific set of beleifs (the lack of gods or divine power) and try to convince others of the validity of their doctrine. I guess that makes them borderline religous or mabye a borderline political group. When you get down to it everything is a political group. Mabye I'll found a religion, the Politicalists.
I'm not sure where you get the idea atheists are organized. It's not as if we have large buildings in every city with big steeples where we meet weekly to profess our beliefs. We mostly just don't give a damn about what other people believe so long as they aren't trying to cram it into the educational system, suppress scientific research, start wars, or otherwise interfere with our lives. Conversion is pretty low on our list, though there is a stronger branch of activist atheism being aroused by the various decisions being made based on religion that are being imposed on our lives (stem cell research, evolution, etc.) We don't dress in white shirts and ties and go door to door trying to get people to convert.
So no, we're not a religion, and no, we aren't organized, and no, we don't give a damn whether you think the same way as us or not. Statements to the contrary are likely to piss us off.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Most agnostics are atheists who haven't given it much thought, in my view.
Or athetists that don't want to stir the waters with religious people who find atheism offensive. I used to fall in that camp, and still don't go out of my way to flaunt my atheism, but I'm getting more comfortable just saying I'm an atheist and letting the chips fall where they may on people's reactions. It's partly a reaction to what's going on in America now, where religious beliefs are gaining strength as a justification for political action. I remember how wonderful it was when I was in London, seeing your political proceedings unfold without constant lip service to God or rabid fundamentalism. (Though to be fair, Europeans and Brits seem pretty crazy with regards to their views on genetically modified crops. So I suppose there are other non-religious ways to impose on rationale thought.)
The greatest irony is that the persons I have the most in common with and get along best with at work are the mormons. We all got married early, we all have children, we don't drink, and we're very centered around our families. I always joke that I'm an honorary mormon.
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Atheists (from what I know of them, pleae correct me if I am wrong) are an organized group that hold a specific set of beleifs (the lack of gods or divine power) and try to convince others of the validity of their doctrine. I guess that makes them borderline religous or mabye a borderline political group. When you get down to it everything is a political group. Mabye I'll found a religion, the Politicalists.I'm not sure where you get the idea atheists are organized. It's not as if we have large buildings in every city with big steeples where we meet weekly to profess our beliefs. We mostly just don't give a damn about what other people believe so long as they aren't trying to cram it into the educational system, suppress scientific research, start wars, or otherwise interfere with our lives. Conversion is pretty low on our list, though there is a stronger branch of activist atheism being aroused by the various decisions being made based on religion that are being imposed on our lives (stem cell research, evolution, etc.) We don't dress in white shirts and ties and go door to door trying to get people to convert.
So no, we're not a religion, and no, we aren't organized, and no, we don't give a damn whether you think the same way as us or not. Statements to the contrary are likely to piss us off.
Go to meetup.com and type in "atheist."
There's meetings.|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Go to meetup.com and type in "atheist."
There's meetings.
Oh, then that totally changes my analysis. If there are meetings, it must be a religion. The gig is up I guess. Here's the truth:
We atheists were all recruited by a high level organization known as the Brotherhood of Evil God-Haters. We follow our Supreme Ultimate Leader and read from our ancient Book of Truth (which we know is true because it says so in the book, and the Supereme Ultimate Leader told us so.) We had hoped to keep our meetings a secret because they involve blood oathes and sacred ceremonies in which we swear to pledge ourselves to the absolute absence of dieties. We also have little tokens, or "non-holy symbols" we carry around to gain favor from our great non-entity. I personally go door to door every Saturday trying to induct new members into the Brotherhood.
Yeah, some atheists attend meetings, but I've never met one. There's just not much dogma to it, it's not like you need indoctrination into the mysteries of non-belief. Saying that there is an organization to which most athesists belong is incorrect.
But, if you want to play the terminology game because somehow atheism is a religion because it involves a positive statement of belief, fine, I'm an agnostic.* I can't possibly prove that god doesn't exist, but I believe the bible is as much a description of a real entity as the Eberron Campaign Setting is a description of a real place.
*Unless agnostics have meetings and therefore are a religion too.
My mother has given me misinformation
If your definition of religion involves supernatural elements, then, no, I don't have a religion.
If your definition of religion involves world view, morality, society, and tradition, then I have several.
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Go to meetup.com and type in "atheist."
There's meetings.Oh, then that totally changes my analysis. If there are meetings, it must be a religion. The gig is up I guess. Here's the truth:
We atheists were all recruited by a high level organization known as the Brotherhood of Evil God-Haters. We follow our Supreme Ultimate Leader and read from our ancient Book of Truth (which we know is true because it says so in the book, and the Supereme Ultimate Leader told us so.) We had hoped to keep our meetings a secret because they involve blood oathes and sacred ceremonies in which we swear to pledge ourselves to the absolute absence of dieties. We also have little tokens, or "non-holy symbols" we carry around to gain favor from our great non-entity. I personally go door to door every Saturday trying to induct new members into the Brotherhood.
Yeah, some atheists attend meetings, but I've never met one. There's just not much dogma to it, it's not like you need indoctrination into the mysteries of non-belief. Saying that there is an organization to which most athesists belong is incorrect.
But, if you want to play the terminology game because somehow atheism is a religion because it involves a positive statement of belief, fine, I'm an agnostic.* I can't possibly prove that god doesn't exist, but I believe the bible is as much a description of a real entity as the Eberron Campaign Setting is a description of a real place.
*Unless agnostics have meetings and therefore are a religion too.
I never said Atheism WAS a religion in and of itsself. I just said that it CAN be. If you replace god with "the movement" and the devil with "those superstitious muckety-mucks who want to teach our kids that the spaghetti Meatball Man created the world out of Sacred Spaghetti Sauce in three days instead of evolution" and promise everybody a logical, scientific utopia of superhuman actualized rational renaissance men (i.e. heaven) that can only be brought about by the victory of reason over the superstitious Spaghettiites, then you're talking religion.
I never said that most atheists attend meetings, or that there was this bleak cabal of Illuminati out to infuse the U.S.A. and then the world with Godlessness for their own designs.Well, there kinda is--or at least was--during the time of the Bolsheviks, but that's history.
I don't care what anybody believes frankly. I believe, however, that when people start marginalizing others' belief systems or opinions whilst speaking of their own "ism's" in grandiose and sweeping generalities, then somebody has to call them on it.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I believe, however, that when people start marginalizing others' belief systems or opinions whilst speaking of their own "ism's" in grandiose and sweeping generalities, then somebody has to call them on it.
Thanks for riding in on your white horse marshal. Out of curiousity, where was your outrage when the original grandiose and sweeping generalities were being made about atheism (e.g., atheism is a religion, atheists go to meetings, etc.) to which my post was a response. Sure would've been nice for you to "call them on it" then and offer the pearls of wisdom about when, where, and why atheism is (not) a religion. We sure could've used your style of frontier justice then.
Here is a favorite quote of mine by the esteemed Thomas Jefferson to Mrs. H. Harrison Smith, 1816:
"I never told my own religion nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I am satisfied that yours must be an excellent religion to have produced a life of such exemplary virture and correctness. For it is in our lives, not from our words, that our religion must be judged."
I am so clueless about athiests.I remember a girl at university who became religious while she was there. She seemed to want there to be something out there, some sort of active agency, bigger than herself, that explained "things".
There is some evidence that religious belief stems from a certain part of the brain. Interestingly, when the part of the brain that MAY be responsible for religious feeling is stimulated, you feel a sort of "presence". (They did this on TV to Richard Dawkins - he didn't suddenly become a religious nut, but he did feel a sort of "otherness out there".) I suspect that in atheists, that part of the brain isn't highly developed, whereas it is in those who are inclined to religion.
Now, I don't think this says much about religion, on the face of it. Religious belief may simply be a matter of brain anatomy and chemistry. Or the organ may be a God-detector. Who knows?
But my personal feelings, as an atheist, are that I don't feel the need to proselytise about my "faith", because I'm not actively "non-believing" (probably some lapsed religious types with axes to grind may feel more militiant, but I come from a family of atheists). I feel quite liberated by my non-belief - I don't like the idea of some guy judging my deeds and determining if I'll go to heaven or hell. So, for me, atheism in practice is probably best defined by what is not there - any interest in religion or any passing thought about an external supernatural deity/agency, benevolent or otherwise, in day-to-day life.
I'm actually quite as baffled about those who have faith as those are, presumably, who are baffled by atheism. I respect people's beliefs (philosophy has taught me that, strictly speaking, my atheism is no more valid a belief system than any religion) but I just don't get it at all.
Thank you for the info. I feel enlightened. I must be someone who has a well developed God detector because I see God everywhere. WHat about faith? Do you as an athiest have any faith? How do you as an athiest define the word faith? As an athiest with out a believe in a god or gods or divinity, are you still spiritual? Or is our lives just some random chemical, physical reaction started by something like the big bang?
I know this off the main subject. BUt what are these message boards for but sharing ideas. I am just so curious.
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The greatest irony is that the persons I have the most in common with and get along best with at work are the mormons. We all got married early, we all have children, we don't drink, and we're very centered around our families. I always joke that I'm an honorary mormon.
I know a couple who after getting married, became Mormon converts. To them the strong family values esposed by Mormons was the draw. I must say I find a lot in common with Mormons.
I just like to drink alcohol from time to time, so I would not make a good Mormon. I am sure thier are other things I have done that Mormons would find questionable.
Thank you for the info. I feel enlightened. I must be someone who has a well developed God detector because I see God everywhere. WHat about faith? Do you as an athiest have any faith? How do you as an athiest define the word faith? As an athiest with out a believe in a god or gods or divinity, are you still spiritual? Or is our lives just some random chemical, physical reaction started by something like the big bang?
I believe in something greater than myself; I just don't have faith in it - I have empirical evidence.
Personally, I hate the word 'atheist'; A philospohpy is not defined by what it doesn't believe.
I am a Loguist. I belive in my own unquestionable divinity. Fear not, I also believe in benevolent dictatorship...now bow before me man-things! ;-)
In all seriousness, I am much more of a philosophical soul than a religious one (a different kind of spirituality based more on us all getting along with each other and this world we live in). I dig on Confucianism's ethics mixed with a little Daoist introspecton on the nature of nothingness/everythingness, and I Buddhisms' idea of desire as the root of all suffering is particularly useful to me day to day. I sprinkle all of this with yin-yang theory, which is so much more interesting than Nietche's ripped off watered down version of it ("nature of opposites").
When I have to accomplish something, I go to zen with a dash of Bushido (the hagakure and the Unfettered Mind are great texts for martial artists/performers, or really just anyone who wants to get s!$! done.).
Religions I am not so big on...though I find a lot of the concepts in Islam (not fundamentalist Islam) to be extremely interesting.
My atheism isn't a philosophy and I belong to no greater school of thought on the subject. I do not like when people try to convert me and I don't try to convert anyone to my particular set of observations.
People do use the word agnostic because they're afraid to annoy believers with the word atheist. I've seen it happen many times. Athesist is a charged word and despite being comfortable in my lack of belief in divinity, I don't toss it around as a self description because I am not ever trying to sound proud and certainly not superior.
It isn't a philosophy for me. No more so than looking at the sun or biting into a peach is a philosphy.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Thank you for the info. I feel enlightened. I must be someone who has a well developed God detector because I see God everywhere. WHat about faith? Do you as an athiest have any faith? How do you as an athiest define the word faith? As an athiest with out a believe in a god or gods or divinity, are you still spiritual? Or is our lives just some random chemical, physical reaction started by something like the big bang?
Can you still enjoy a movie even though you know its not real?
I'm a human, I'm subject to all the emotions as any other human, including faith, hope, love. I experience deja vu. I assemble coincidences and find patterns in life and am comforted by them.
It's just that at the end of the day, fidelity to reason denies me the ability to ascribe any of it to a diety, and in particular, to a diety described in a book. The very thought that a being of infinite love and wisdom would limit access to itself by vesting its truth in a thing of wood and ink, something limited by language and geography, is offensive.
Spirituality is a meaningless buzz word. I hesitate to say all, but damn near all, people that use the word spiritual do so in an apologetic way for not following the tenants of their (or any) religion in a stricter way. I don't go to church, but it's okay, because I'm "spiritual" or I pick and choose the elements I like from various traditions because I'm "spiritual." It's usually carried around in some compartive way, like being smarter or stronger than someone, and is used to justify feeling better about oneself. So no, I'm not particularly "spiritual."
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Thanks for riding in on your white horse marshal. Out of curiousity, where was your outrage when the original grandiose and sweeping generalities were being made about atheism (e.g., atheism is a religion, atheists go to meetings, etc.) to which my post was a response. Sure would've been nice for you to "call them on it" then and offer the pearls of wisdom about when, where, and why atheism is (not) a religion. We sure could've used your style of frontier justice then.
You're right. I'll just go eat some spaghetti and take communion to atone for the sins of hypocrisy and hubris; I really should have helped you out against the backpedalling apologist who had you on the ropes there.
