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Not entirely sure of the legality of that build, but hey, it's up to the DM.
I've always fancied having a character with Two Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword). Haven't done it with a PC but have a Lord of Dust NPC rakshasa who has this little combination. It was messy.....
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That does sound painful, if you want to add to it, have "Two Weapon Rend" to the mix for more damage.
A true master - I salute you.
And I believe the build is legal, as Weretouched Master only requires Shifter and some easy skills and "extra shifter trait" feat. And Warshaper requires a shifting ability (or shapechanger subtype that Shifters have) along with a small BAB. The leveling as a monster may be iffy, but it should be capable (you are penalizing yourself technically).
I was thinking more about the monster progression, especially using Monstrous Humanoid. I think shifters are plain old Humanoids, and the monstrous progression doesn't sound quite right for a basic 1 HD creature. But it's a comment, and rules are, of course, made to be broken. Well, bent a bit...
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As for the "Monstrous Humanoid" progression, Feral turns Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids into Monstrous Humanoids if they are not already one....
Oh, OK, never noticed that particular aspect of the template before, but as they applied to a monstrous humanoid in the example anyway it wouldn't jump out.
for the ultimate in munchkinism I shall take from the scale mail of Dragon Magazine (i forget what issue)
a fiendish half-black-dragon troll deathknight
yeys for immortality
aside from house rules the only way I can figure out to decommision it is to "imprision" it as per the spell, or a permanent forcecage
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Slightly off topic but this thread just totally jumped into my mind some things a DM friend of mine was bouncing off me to try and get my opinion for a game he is going to run. The game is going to be really high level(they are in their teens right now and are probably going into lower epic before its over) and he wanted to start introducing a arch enemy who is beyond their scope of power now but will be battled towards the end of the game. More important then it being powerful though, he wanted it to scare them.
What did he come up with? A marilith with monkey grip and oversized two weapon fighting who wields scythes. Just the thought of that made me stop in my tracks and I'm sure it will do worse for the players. She's going to have some character levels too I know, so I wouldn't put it beyond him to send her into tempest of some equivalent.
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for the ultimate in munchkinism I shall take from the scale mail of Dragon Magazine (i forget what issue)
a fiendish half-black-dragon troll deathknight
yeys for immortality
aside from house rules the only way I can figure out to decommision it is to "imprision" it as per the spell, or a permanent forcecage
Any spell that destroys undead would take care of it. Undeath to Death comes to mind. It is immune to turning, sure, but not from abilities that just straight-up DESTROY it. Plus, regeneration won't save you from those either, as it is not hit point damage.
a fiendish half-black-dragon troll deathknight...
Can we give it psionics? :P
shure =)
and while we're at it a permanent antimagic aura... nevermind how you cast permanency on antimagic
or for that matter how a creature powered *BY* magic could survive within it
those aspects of the rules never made sense realistically speaking to me, if undead and golems are powered or held together by magic how can they survive being in a dead magic area.
balance-wise though I get it and I dont change it in any of my games
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for the ultimate in munchkinism I shall take from the scale mail of Dragon Magazine (i forget what issue)
a fiendish half-black-dragon troll deathknight
yeys for immortality
aside from house rules the only way I can figure out to decommision it is to "imprision" it as per the spell, or a permanent forcecage
Since the Death Knight is undead and doesn't have a Constitution score, I believe that the regeneration goes away. So it is immune to acid, electricity and cold and a little resistant to fire. It still takes lethal damage from normal magic weapons.
hmmm... im pretty shure regen isnt tied to constitution.
After all undead flesh could theoretically be "healed" by a direct link to the negative energy plain.
Also havent you ever read the song of ice and fire series... the others and wights seem undead ( i dnt mean for that to sound condecending, they're good books for all who havent read them)
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hmmm... im pretty shure regen isnt tied to constitution.
Regeneration
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.
Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.
Creatures with regeneration can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts. Severed parts die if they are not reattached.
Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.
Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage ignore regeneration.
An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage.
A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.
Most undead that have some kind of similar ability have Fast Healing and not Regeneration.
ty for the correction, I will keep it in mind while posting for the future
I do however like the idea of undead that must be burned to be killed permanently... "what do you mean they stand back up???"
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ty for the correction...
Not a problem. I was very surprised when that rule was pointed out before. That's what these boards are for.
I too like the idea of undead putting themselves back together and getting back up to fight some more. Doesn't mean that you can't make it happen that way.
As a general rule, I feel that the rules for D&D have always been more "guidelines" than actual hard and fast rules -- but I also feel that it is important (especially on these boards) to know when you are ignoring/modifying the rules and when it is actually "RAW".
Munchkin huh? I see your troll deathknight and raise you this.
Roger the Polite
Male Troll Paragon Barbarian 12 Frenzied Berserker 10
CG Large Giant
Init +23, Darkvision 60 feet.
Languages: Common, Giant, Draconic, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon
AC 70, Touch 40, Flat footed 51
Hp 1208 (28 HD) Fast Healing 20, Regeneration 5, Damage Reduction 22/6
Resist Fire 40, Cold 10 SR 47
Saves: Fort +59 Reflex +44 (evasion) Will +33
Speed: 120 feet
Melee: +5 Fullblade of Collision Speed +72/+72/+67/+62/+57/+52 (2d8+47)
Space 10 feet, Reach 10 feet
Base Attack 22: Grapple +51
Attack options: Robilar's gambit, power attack, Rage, Frenzy, Leap Attack
Spell like abilities: Greater dispelling, haste, and see invisibility 3/day each.
Abilities: Str 60, Dex 48, Con 56, Int 25, Wis 27, Cha 21
Feats: Cleave, Destructive Rage, Intimidating Rage, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Diehard, Improved Initiative, Dire Charge (epic), Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer), Extra Rage, Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw, Robilar's Gambit (PHB2)
Possessions: Bracers of Armor +8 of Great Fire Resistance and heavy Fortification. Amulet of health +6, Belt of Giant's Strength +6, Winged Boots, Vest of Resistance +5, Gloves of Dex +6, Pale Green Ioun Stone, Ring of enlarge person, Ring of freedom of movement
Power attack for 20 = 52/52/47/42/37/32 (2d8+105)
Leap Attack for 20 = 2d8+105
Power attack Frenzy Rage= 60/60/55/50/45/40 (2d8+147)
Leap attack frenzy rage= 2d8+226
While Raging +6 to str and con, +3 on will saves, and -2 to AC, lasts 24 rounds. Hp is now 1292
Str becomes 66 (23), Con becomes 62 (21), Fort +62, Will +36, Attacks +75/+75/+70/+65/+60/+55 (2d8+51) AC 68
Frenzy: Str +10, -4 to AC, lasts for 21 rounds.Str becomes 70 (30), AC becomes 66,
Attacks become +77/+77/+72/+67/+62/+57 (2d8+62)
Raging Frenzy! Str 76 (33), Con 62 (21), Fort +62, Will +36
Attacks: +80/+80/+75/+70/+65/+60 (2d8+66) AC becomes 64
Huge Size:
AC 69, Touch 39, Flat footed 50
Reflex +43
+72/+72/+67/+62/+57/+52 (3d8+48)
Space 15, Reach 15, grapple 55
Str 62, Dex 46
Initiative +22
All damage increases by 1 point.
Roger the Polite, gestalted. Level 21.
Paragon is from epic level handbook with a level adjustment of 15. Speed triples, +12 insight bonuses to AC, +12 luck bonus to AC, +5 to Natural armor. +20 to all damage rolls in melee and thrown weapons. Fire and cold resistance 10, Damage reduction 20/6, Spell Resistance 47, Greater dispelling, haste, and see invisibility 3 times per day each. Fast healing 20. +10 on all saving throws, +10 on all skill checks. 2 bonus feats
First half: 10th level Frenzied Berserker, 12th level Barbarian.
a fiendish half-black-dragon troll deathknight...Can we give it psionics? :P
When will the Stat Blocks on this be available on Liliths web site?
;-)
a fiendish half-black-dragon troll deathknight...Can we give it psionics? :P
Half-balck dragon war troll (at least I think its wartroll's that are immune to fire?)
Removes the hindrance of undead, but does mean you are "alive"
How about a Half Mindflayer/Aboleth Psion?
Munchkin huh? I see your troll deathknight and raise you this.
Roger the Polite
Male Troll Paragon Barbarian 12 Frenzied Berserker 10
CG Large Giant
Init +23, Darkvision 60 feet.
Languages: Common, Giant, Draconic, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon
AC 70, Touch 40, Flat footed 51
Hp 1208 (28 HD) Fast Healing 20, Regeneration 5, Damage Reduction 22/6
Resist Fire 40, Cold 10 SR 47
Saves: Fort +59 Reflex +44 (evasion) Will +33
Speed: 120 feet
Melee: +5 Fullblade of Collision Speed +72/+72/+67/+62/+57/+52 (2d8+47)
Space 10 feet, Reach 10 feet
Base Attack 22: Grapple +51
Attack options: Robilar's gambit, power attack, Rage, Frenzy, Leap Attack
Spell like abilities: Greater dispelling, haste, and see invisibility 3/day each.
Abilities: Str 60, Dex 48, Con 56, Int 25, Wis 27, Cha 21
Feats: Cleave, Destructive Rage, Intimidating Rage, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Diehard, Improved Initiative, Dire Charge (epic), Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer), Extra Rage, Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw, Robilar's Gambit (PHB2)
Possessions: Bracers of Armor +8 of Great Fire Resistance and heavy Fortification. Amulet of health +6, Belt of Giant's Strength +6, Winged Boots, Vest of Resistance +5, Gloves of Dex +6, Pale Green Ioun Stone, Ring of enlarge person, Ring of freedom of movement
Power attack for 20 = 52/52/47/42/37/32 (2d8+105)
Leap Attack for 20 = 2d8+105
Power attack Frenzy Rage= 60/60/55/50/45/40 (2d8+147)
Leap attack frenzy rage= 2d8+226
While Raging +6 to str and con, +3 on will saves, and -2 to AC, lasts 24 rounds. Hp is now 1292
Str becomes 66 (23), Con becomes 62 (21), Fort +62, Will +36, Attacks +75/+75/+70/+65/+60/+55 (2d8+51) AC 68
Frenzy: Str +10, -4 to AC, lasts for 21 rounds.Str becomes 70 (30), AC becomes 66,
Attacks become +77/+77/+72/+67/+62/+57 (2d8+62)
Raging Frenzy! Str 76 (33), Con 62 (21), Fort +62, Will +36
Attacks: +80/+80/+75/+70/+65/+60 (2d8+66) AC becomes 64
Huge Size:
AC 69, Touch 39, Flat footed 50
Reflex +43
+72/+72/+67/+62/+57/+52 (3d8+48)
Space 15,...
Ugh Gestalt. Makes this build less impressive fi you ahev gestalt to do it! But still impressive nonetheless!
I've been expirementing with a Thri-kreen Fighter 10/Ranger 2 with the multi-weapon fighting feat (MM1) armed with three bastard swords and a +2 spined shield. He gets like 7 attacks per round and can deal somewhere around 140 points of damage in a round if he rolls well. Now if I included the monkey grip feat so I could use large bastard swords and I could probably deal out closer to 200 points of damage. One of the DMs who runs campaigns for our group is the queen of munchkinism so I could probably play this combo. Now if I added a few levels of rogue to get the sneak attack...
By the way, could someone please post the stats for the monkey grip feat. I need something like it for an upcoming campign and I don't want to buy the complete warrior just so I can get that one feat. It would be appreciated.
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I've been expirementing with a Thri-kreen Fighter 10/Ranger 2 with the multi-weapon fighting feat (MM1) armed with three bastard swords and a +2 spined shield. He gets like 7 attacks per round and can deal somewhere around 140 points of damage in a round if he rolls well. Now if I included the monkey grip feat so I could use large bastard swords and I could probably deal out closer to 200 points of damage.
A Large bastard sword is the same as a Fullblade (Arms & Equipment Guide, I believe). It's simply an Exotic weapon that deals 2d8 damage and has a 19-20/x2 crit.
Monkey Grip only requires a +1 BAB and allows you to wield a weapon as though it were one size category smaller (or as if you were one size category LARGER). However, you take a -2 penalty on attack rolls with such an oversized weapon.
Ugh Gestalt. Makes this build less impressive fi you ahev gestalt to do it! But still impressive nonetheless!
Um, that's not a gestalt build. 6 Giant HD + 10 Barbarian HD + 12 Frenzied Berzerker HD = 28, the HD listed.
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Ugh Gestalt. Makes this build less impressive fi you ahev gestalt to do it! But still impressive nonetheless!Um, that's not a gestalt build. 6 Giant HD + 10 Barbarian HD + 12 Frenzied Berzerker HD = 28, the HD listed.
It's a Paragon creature, which I'm pretty sure ramps up the HD a bit.
It's a Paragon creature, which I'm pretty sure ramps up the HD a bit.Ugh Gestalt. Makes this build less impressive fi you ahev gestalt to do it! But still impressive nonetheless!Um, that's not a gestalt build. 6 Giant HD + 10 Barbarian HD + 12 Frenzied Berzerker HD = 28, the HD listed.
He's using the paragon template from the Epic book, which doesn't technically increase the HD, although the template bonuses should only apply to the racial HD, not the character levels (not sure if that's actually the case).
It's a Paragon creature, which I'm pretty sure ramps up the HD a bit.He's using the paragon template from the Epic book, which doesn't technically increase the HD, although the template bonuses should only apply to the racial HD, not the character levels (not sure if that's actually the case).
Yeah, Paragon doesn't increase a monster's actual HD (which means that a 1st level human paragon is still subject to sleep, if you can get over his SR and beefy Will save). As for the racial HD thing, there's not an actual ruling on that as far as I know. Even if there were (and I think there should be), it wouldn't affect the Paragon template. It would, however, affect the "half-whatevers", and especially the Feral template - putting it a bit more in-line, power-wise.
TK
Actually, it is gestalt. I was told to make an insanely powerful character for epic play. I asked if I could go paragon and he sure. Paragon plus troll plus one level in barbarian equals 21. 11 levels in barbarian plus 10 levels in frenzied beserker makes 21. 21 gestalt level.
Actually, it is gestalt. I was told to make an insanely powerful character for epic play. I asked if I could go paragon and he sure. Paragon plus troll plus one level in barbarian equals 21. 11 levels in barbarian plus 10 levels in frenzied beserker makes 21. 21 gestalt level.
Gah! That's why I don't use gestalt... technically this monster would then have 7 real HD and another 14 "phantom" HD that are only supported on one side of the gestalting. You could call it 21 HD total, but that's bending the rules too far, IMO. It, however, would not be 28 HD at all.
I thought the SRD put paragon at +15 LA, anyway...
*something very scary that I never hope to have to deal with, in-game, paperwork, or otherwise*
Holy Ash Rats! @.O!
I've never seen anything like that... Paragon? Man... and I don't even know what gestalt mean... *shudder*
And I thought that the stats for Dagon where insane... (Dagon having the highest CR I've seen as of yet)
-Kurocyn
Hey man, you think that's scary? Head over to the character optimization boards at WOTC. There's stuff there that make my troll look like a 3 year old with a baby rattle
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Paragon? Man... and I don't even know what gestalt mean... *shudder*
Paragon is a template found in the Epic Level Handbook. It makes things that are already tough and makes them insanely tough. A few highlights -- max hit points and a bonus +12 hp per HD. Speed triples. +12 Luck bonus to AC, +12 insight bonus to AC. Attacks with +25 luck bonus. Etc. Makes creatures pretty much god-like.
Gestalt is found in Unearthed Arcana. The short description is that you take two classes and merge them taking the best of both classes. So if you merge Figter with Cleric, the character would get HD as a fighter, number of skill points is the same either way - but class skills of both classes are class skills, BAB as fighter, good saves as cleric, bonus feats as a fighter, turning as a cleric, and spell progression as cleric. We were thinking of doing this when we only had 3 players to give them a little "oomph".
*more scarey stuff that makes me glad I only run low-mid level games*
...
Dang...
Thank you BTW, this is the first time I've seen the paragon template, but I've seen gestalt before and wondered about it... What does the word "gestalt" mean anyway?
-Kurocyn
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Thank you BTW, this is the first time I've seen the paragon template, but I've seen gestalt before and wondered about it... What does the word "gestalt" mean anyway?
It's a German word and I believe it means 'together' or 'unity' or something in that vein. I'm sure one of the German posters that haunt these boards will be able to give a better definition than I can.
"Gestalt" literally means shape or form. From what a German friend was telling me, it can have several different meanings, such as:
You are a strange gestalt.
The gestalt of this figure is pretty awesome.
The gestaltung of this painting is modern. (The "ung" part is apparently a way in German to change the meaning of words... o.O )
Words - they're fun, take care of them. Nit fluph blarney quando floo! (Those who like George Carlin will get that last bit! :D )
Some of my character ideas:
A dvati that is born without a twin, the twin only manifests as a symbiote or spirit guide of some kind, only the dvati himself can see his twin while others catch only glimpses of 'another figure' out of the corner of their eye or notice that the dvati sometimes casts two shadows, or that his shadow is moving differently to him (ie: the dvati is sat down but his shadow is stood up leaning against the wall etc.)
A terribly burnt halfling, scarred beyond all recognition now forced to wear full leathers at all times, also mute. He must remove his leathers and rub a special herbal lotion into his ravaged body everyday perfering to do this in the safety and privacy of his own rented room. (I shall call him mini-gimp!) Speaks in sign language and plays the flute when he is in one of his very rare 'lighter' moods.
Class would be rogue, ranger or scout, uses the strongheart halfling race and has a couple of flaws to represent his damaged form. He was caught in a blast of dragonfire during the year of rogue dragons attacks on Lurien. Now his sole purpose in life is revenge upon the deadly red wyrm 'Cyndersnarl'. Arrows are but small things yet they can bring down creatures hundreds of times their size. He calls himself 'Velocity', 'Dart' or something simular (havent decided yet) Might make him all about the greatspear...not sure.
A dragonborn of Tiamat named Emezil. The first one ever created using a newly stolen and adapted ritual from the temple of Bahamut (Thanks to a traitor priest of the platinum father 'discovering the truth' and turning to the worship of her glorious chromatic majesty during the rage of dragons). However the ritual is not perfect or entirely sucessful, nor can it be replicated again...unless...
Now this dragonborn of Tiamat has a divine mission -to get to the sacred ground (where Tiamat's avatar once appeared) and sacarifice herself there. Doing so will complete and 'present' the ritual of dragonborn creation to Tiamatt herself, which then the great chromatic mother can use freely as her own, creating as many dragonborn in her own image as she desires! Emezil has recieved visions telling her she will be greatly rewarded for her devotion and service, perhaps even becoming a true dragon!
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I don't know German, but I can use dictionary.com -->
Etymology: German, literally, shape, form
: a structure, configuration, or pattern of physical, biological, or psychological phenomena so integrated as to constitute a functional unit with properties not derivable by summation of its parts
Basically, if you have two parts and merge them, there are rules for that and it makes sense. If you start with the merged product and try and separate it into its respective parts it is (nearly) impossible without knowing what it was you started with before the merge.
Yeah, Paragon doesn't increase a monster's actual HD (which means that a 1st level human paragon is still subject to sleep, if you can get over his SR and beefy Will save). As for the racial HD thing, there's not an actual ruling on that as far as I know.It's a Paragon creature, which I'm pretty sure ramps up the HD a bit.He's using the paragon template from the Epic book, which doesn't technically increase the HD, although the template bonuses should only apply to the racial HD, not the character levels (not sure if that's actually the case).
Logically, because paragon is an inherited template (MM pg. 291), the template is applied to the monster's racial HD. Advancing the monster with class levels shouldn't improve the paragon template characteristics because the racial HD are unchanged. Advancing a monster by adding HD (or templates that add HD) should improve template characteristics, since it increases the monster's racial HD.
Only when dealing with creatures without racial HD do things get flaky. The way I handle it is that special attacks and spell-like abilities are based on character level, while special qualities are treated as if the creature had 1 racial HD. For example, a celestial human fighter would increase the damage from his Smite Evil as he gained in level, but would not increase his energy resistance or gain damage reduction.
As for the racial HD thing, there's not an actual ruling on that as far as I know.Logically, because paragon is an inherited template (MM pg. 291), the template is applied to the monster's racial HD.
And yet... half-dragon is also an inherited template, yet look at the stat block for the 5th-level half-black dragon human fighter in the MM. d12 HD, etc., etc.
I'm with you as far as the logic goes. I'm just saying that the rules, at least as WotC uses them, aren't with us.
And yet... half-dragon is also an inherited template, yet look at the stat block for the 5th-level half-black dragon human fighter in the MM. d12 HD, etc., etc.As for the racial HD thing, there's not an actual ruling on that as far as I know.Logically, because paragon is an inherited template (MM pg. 291), the template is applied to the monster's racial HD.
3.5 MM pg. 146:
Hit Dice: Increase the base creature's racial HD by one dice size, to a maximum of d12. Do not increase class HD.
Most template modifications are not based on HD, thankfully. Modifying monsters is already complicated enough.
To get back on topic, how about this idea:
Half-Fiend/Lizardfolk Werecrocodile Warlock/Warshaper.
To get back on topic, how about this idea:
Half-Fiend/Lizardfolk Werecrocodile Warlock/Warshaper.
Nonviable. Half-Fiend is an inherited template, thus the creature would be an outsider from birth, rendering it incapable of being a Lycanthrope. For similar reasons, much to my annoyance, an Unholy Scion cannot become a Vampire and then use her mother to deliver her Dominating gaze attack.
That said, a Lizardfolk Werecrocodile would be pretty freaking scary to look at. He goes from being big and scaly, to being REALLY big and scaly with a mouth the size of your head, to being a crocodile (by definition, big and scaly.) With Witchwood Step (a lesser invocation), you'd be able to choose between walking on the water or swimming in it.
The nastiest lycanthrope I've ever seen was a Half-Minotaur Were-Fleshraker Dinosaur. That flying pounce attack is brutal. Charge, Full Attack, Trip Attack, and Pin all in the same round. *Shudder*
The half-fiend lycanthrope is viable, as long as one parent is a natural lycanthrope.
Ish. Lycanthropy can't be applied -- whether natural or afflicted -- to anything other than a humanoid or a giant. Unless you're going to argue that the unborn child is a humanoid who later develops first into a lycanthrope and then into a half-fiend, I can't see it working; even then, it's just an ugly mess. Perhaps not so outright exploitive of the rules regarding template stacking and type changes as a Tiefling Wizard using Wish to become a Half-Dragon (thus changing his type from Outsider to Dragon) so that he could become a Dracolich, but definitely strange.