I was wondering how this thing works. The zombie masters make the zombies out of the deceased of the village. In Dungeon 104 i read that they are put to work or used as warriors. But i find that quite opposite to what i would call respectful rememberance of the dead. So what is the deal with the zombies being made? Are they set loose to wonder the island? Are they attacking olmans on sight? If yes then why would they complicate their own life with this?
I was wondering how this thing works. The zombie masters make the zombies out of the deceased of the village. In Dungeon 104 i read that they are put to work or used as warriors. But i find that quite opposite to what i would call respectful rememberance of the dead. So what is the deal with the zombies being made? Are they set loose to wonder the island? Are they attacking olmans on sight? If yes then why would they complicate their own life with this?
Since I'm not a Contributor I can't offer an explanantion, but your question did make me think of something interesting. Say the PCs are trying to form an alliance with the Olmans, hoping that some of their warriors will come to Farshore's aid against the Crimson Fleet pirates. What if, instead of offering live warriors, the Zombie Masters of several of the villages arrange for a hundred or so zombies to come to Farshore's aid? Think of the interesting moral dilemmas for any lawful good paladins or cleric PCs. <chuckles evilly>
I beleive (at least, I'm using it this way in my game) that the Olman animate their dead to defend themselves from desecration. Kind of hard to desecrate someone who can get up and kick you around his tomb if you try.
The Olman are very spiritual, and see the body merely as a vessel for the soul. Once the soul has moved on, the body has far less importance.
Unfortunately, the 3rd edition rules make this particular cultural application... hard. Because in 3rd edition animating mindless undead is evil, this creates a generally evil spin to the idea (note that a recent Dragon mag article on the church of We Jas mentions that undead can be created through modified non-evil incantations.)
I would consider the Olman zombies to be "programmed" with certain "default" orders, one of which would be: Never attack an Olman, unless he attacks you first.
I see the Olman culture as being totally beleivable and workable, as long as the DM is willing to take some of the rules-as-written and bend them a bit, or even break them. Sacrilige? Not if it helps your game. Consider that this is merely the latest in a long line of incarnations of the game, and in each incarnation, fluff and flavor has been designed around the rules (and sometimes rules around the fluff and flavor). What happens to the fluff and flavor of yesteryear when the rules get their shiny new upgrade? Some flavor/fluff updates just fine, but sometimes it was too dependent on the way the old rules were to update cleanly. The rules regarding mindless undead in 3.5 seem to do a good job of illustrating this in regards to the Olman customs.
Just some food for thought. Hope it helps!
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But i find that quite opposite to what i would call respectful rememberance of the dead.
Keep in mind that the Olman worship this guy:
Mictlantecuhtli, LE greater god of death
Mictlantecuhtli is the god of death and the power of unlife Normally shown as a tall lich-like being, he is also depicted as a skeletal canine. His worshippers get his attention by sacrificing 50 of their own members during the dark of the moons: these sacrifices then serve the god as undead. Another warlike god, he encourages his followers to send their enemies to be his slaves in the afterlife. His permission is needed before a priest can use raise dead or resurrection.
Mictlantecuhtli’s Priests: Grim and cold, the priests of the death god never show mercy to their captured foes, sacrificing them at the first opportunity. They oversee the internment of those who have died in battle and of natural causes.
We are playing in FR so i am also wondering what gods to associate with the Olmans. My first though was to use Uthgar's faith because of the beast totem the Olmans worship (ofcourse under different Olman names). But this doesnt really mix with the fact of zombism... Though they could be just a special bunch of Uthgarite worhippers whit a keen on animating ancestors. Or just have them worship other gods as well, like Savras, or dunno... The leaders worship Uthgar, the spiritualists worhip some other god who relies on undead as well... Voodoo style.
Btw, based on all your kind advices, I will use the zombie ancestors as neutral shambling corpses who dont attack and kind of live eternally in the eyes of their relatives. They would be placed ofcourse somewhere separate from the living space of the Olmans, but then again they could be brought in as help in a fight if needed. That would, as someone mentioned earleir, make a cool scene in the game.
Any advice would be appretiated wtih the god question. As would the FR conversion guide for the Isle of Dead modules :)
Any advice would be appretiated wtih the god question. As would the FR conversion guide for the Isle of Dead modules :)
Well, since the Olmans are sort of based on historical Aztecs you might want to look at the Maztica material for the Forgotten Realms. If I remember correctly, the Mazticans were also based on the Aztecs and worshipped a non-Faerunian pantheon. You might not even have to change their names. I'm sure you can find the Maztica stuff for cheap as PDFs somewhere online.
I had the same idea. Will check this thanks!
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Well, since the Olmans are sort of based on historical Aztecs you might want to look at the Maztica material for the Forgotten Realms. If I remember correctly, the Mazticans were also based on the Aztecs and worshipped a non-Faerunian pantheon. You might not even have to change their names. I'm sure you can find the Maztica stuff for cheap as PDFs somewhere online.
Or even for free:
WotC Previous Edition Downloads
The closest Maztican deity to Mictlantecuhtli is probably Zaltec, but he's really not that good a match. I'd suggest using Mictlantecuhtli directly.
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The closest Maztican deity to Mictlantecuhtli is probably Zaltec, but he's really not that good a match. I'd suggest using Mictlantecuhtli directly.
A little more info on a possible Maztican connection: The Mazticans don't really have a deity of death. Zaltec is a god of war, and certainly of killing, but AFAIK the Maztican source material doesn't mention a deity responsible for delivering souls to the afterlife or anything like that, and certainly not one devoted to undeath. In fact, Maztican priests don't even have access to necromantic or summoning spells.
IMC, I plan to include the Olmans as a long-dead precursor civilization to that of modern Maztica, as described in the 2e sources. Their deities, use of necromancy, and pretty much anything else can then be used without change. This is especially true on the Isle of Dread; as an offshoot of the main Olman civilization, they could've developed their own traditions.
What about making them Deathless like creatures (see ECS) animated with positive instead of negative energy. These are good instead of evil. It would make it simpler, unless you want to go down the clash of ethics path.
Just a thought.
What about making them Deathless like creatures (see ECS) animated with positive instead of negative energy. These are good instead of evil. It would make it simpler, unless you want to go down the clash of ethics path.
Just a thought.
I have to admit that I don´t get the reference. But I would not make it too easy for the PCs. This zombie theme is a very disturbing one and can lead to interesting in-character discussions, I think. A Paladin could spell trouble here, as he probably won´t associate with Zombie creators, no matter what. Characters with a more, say, open-minded world view will still find it disturbing, but as it is a integral part of the Olman culture on the Isle, they might be able to accept it. Anyway, it is a nice chance to portray a completely different culture with radically different moral values and world views.
It leads to the ages-old question how far do you go in the name of a greater good, to which is no universal answer, but needs to be re-evaluated every time the question comes up.Stefan
EDIT: Sry wrong thread. :)
What about making them Deathless like creatures (see ECS) animated with positive instead of negative energy. These are good instead of evil. It would make it simpler, unless you want to go down the clash of ethics path.
Just a thought.
I have to admit that I don´t get the reference. But I would not make it too easy for the PCs. This zombie theme is a very disturbing one and can lead to interesting in-character discussions, I think. A Paladin could spell trouble here, as he probably won´t associate with Zombie creators, no matter what. Characters with a more, say, open-minded world view will still find it disturbing, but as it is a integral part of the Olman culture on the Isle, they might be able to accept it. Anyway, it is a nice chance to portray a completely different culture with radically different moral values and world views.
It leads to the ages-old question how far do you go in the name of a greater good, to which is no universal answer, but needs to be re-evaluated every time the question comes up.Stefan
Eberron Campaign Setting, At the back with the stat blocks for the new monsters.
Deathless are creatures created by the Elves of Aerenal from elves that have lived good lives. They are re-animated dead, animated with Positive energy (And so are called Deathless rather than Undead). They serve as the major focus of the Aerenal Elf religion in Eberron. They have a very strong form of ancestor worship.
Warmage 101
Late reply but:
The Esh Alakar from Anchorome (northern Maztica) had a death cult. They are now extinct but their necropoli remain. There's even a sample necropolis w undead inhabitants in one of the (free) modules if I'm not mistaken. The module also contains a bit more background for this culture.
Yes, and it is also sort of a mystery cult. That would imply the Olman do not know whether they are evil or not.
I solved this in my campaign by making the ancester zombies defenders of the villages in case of an emergency. After all this is logical, since the Olman still have the sacred task of guarding the wall, so the zombies fit in nicely with that aspect.