I am going to be running this for my group this weekend. Right now we have 4 players, 3 of them are fighter types (swashbuckler, etc) and one is a cleric.
I imagine Gather Information checks will probably be missed quite often, and it's going to suck if there are traps to overcome later on... (and forget about using Open Lock) :P
Anyone else have a group with no rogues or arcane casters? What has your experience been?
My pals haven’t made any characters for this yet but none of them like spell casters much and prefer to be warriors so I bet we end up without any casters or rogues at all. Once we had a campaign with three fighters and a monk. I don’t see it as a problem, some encounters might be harder but they’ll have the HP, AC and ten ft pole to get through most things.
Going by what I've read here I might let them start at level two because it might be a "difficulty setting = hard" campaign anyway. :)
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I have to tell you, I think a party with 3 fighters and a cleric will not do well in this campaign. Managing in Sasserine is only the beginning. At sea you'll almost cetainly need SOMEBODY with some arcane ability, not to mention the isle of dread and dealing with demogorgon later on.
And beyond traps and locks, who in your party can make a decent spot or listen check? sense motive? a rogue is pretty key as well.
I think I'd try to talk at least one of those fighters into switching. Even if only to a bard. At least then you'd get some decent skills, tho not as much as a rogue, and some casting as well. I'd imagine bardic knowledge will be really key here too...
I did try to talk one fighter into going the rogue route... but I think I pushed him farther away from it. Oh well... I guess they will learn the hard way. I have a 5th player who will be joining but I have no idea what he'll choose to play. I'll have to laugh if he plays a fighter-type as well.
I had thought about playing a DMPC... but from what I've read here and other boards it seems that most hate them. I guess that is where a Cohort could come in handy later on...
For now I guess I'll let them sleep in the bed they've made and try to make the best of it. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I'll know tomorrow. :)
If a party is lacking a particular niche (ftr., rouge and esp. cleric) I feel it's a self correcting problem.
If the party gets laid low by traps again and again, sooner or later someone will roll up rouge. If PC's die every time they are forced into direct conflict, somebody is going to roll up a fighter type. Just run the adventure and let them deal with the problems as they arise. Don't specifically design threats to capitalize on the party’s weakness, ( too often anyway!! ;) but don’t avoid those types of challenges either.
They can also pool together to hire a NPC to adventure with them or take the leadership feat at later levels.
Also the group can modify their strategy to accommodate their strengths.... The fighter party mentioned above may do well with a "shock and awe" style, kicking in doors and rushing room to room destroying everything quickly in hopes the enemy cannot get organized, while a spell caster/sneaky type group may set up illusions to separate and divide the enemy and provide sneak attacks gorilla style--that kind of thing.
So no don't railroad anyone into playing a PC they dont want to. Your players will be happier making thier own (bad) decisions.
I don't see it as a problem. There may be some encounters that could be difficult, but if they play to their strengths and are tactical enough to minimize their weaknesses they should pull through. The key will be if they can work together as a team. Even the "perfect" group of a rogue, wizard, cleric, and fighter will die if they play dumb.
It's possible that the party can do well for a while (Swashbuckler for NPC interaction, two other combatants for damage, Cleric for buffs/heals); traps will be their biggest weakness (a ten foot pole only helps with certain types of traps). Once they reach middle levels, the lack of an arcane caster is going to start hurting them big-time, especially against spellcasters with minions.
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...while a spell caster/sneaky type group may set up illusions to separate and divide the enemy and provide sneak attacks gorilla style--that kind of thing.
Do YOU know any sneaky gorillas? I think you mean "guerilla". :)
So no don't railroad anyone into playing a PC they dont want to. Your players will be happier making thier own (bad) decisions.
I do agree with the point you're making, hopefully they'll eventually see for themselves why they need a certain type in the party, and they might be able to work around it. I've though several times before than an adventuring party made up entirely of rogues, with possibly a few multi-classing to rogue/sorc or rogue/fighter would be pretty sweet. They'd certainly be sneaky.
My four will be a paladin, monk, rogue, and cleric. I am considering adding a fifth. Anyway, it should be interesting...I can't wait to start!
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Once we had a campaign with three fighters and a monk. I don’t see it as a problem, some encounters might be harder but they’ll have the HP, AC and ten ft pole to get through most things.
Sounds Like you're describing my group - we have a Swachbuckler, Sword Sage, Scout and Monk.... so Far they just got trapped under Parrot Island, but due to good timing with rolls they have yet to have anyone knocked out (which from what I hear is better then many groups at this point) To read the (mis)adventures of my group, go to http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/campaignJournals/theS avageTideComesToWonderland
i seem to have a perfect group so far. fighter, druid, wizard, rogue, ranger. 4 of my players are newbies to DND, so it's really fun to watch them interact and make decisions. they are making foolish mistakes that new adventurers would make and its a great time every time we play. i'm loving DMing again and this AP is helping me do it.
So far of the players who have responded out of 7 players we have;
Swashbuckler Half-elf - mark of storms
Dwarf Artificier
Dwarf Fighter
Shifter Druid
still waiting on 3 off the others, but looking ok-ish for balance so far.
Well, we played this past Saturday. The fight on the Blue Nixie went ok, however the Hexblade was at -2 at one point (mainly because I got a critical hit from a crossbow). Pretty much though the group went through the entire encounter including fighting the Rhagodessa without any problems.
The Iron Cobra fight did prove troublesome for them. It seemed that the Knight was the only one who could do any damage to it. The fight lasted for about 8 rounds, with the Knight and Swashbuckler both getting poisoned.
On Parrot Island - the Ravenous Zombie Pirates proved to be a bit too much, and at one point the Hexblade and Swashbuckler were both laying on the ground in the negatives, with the cleric trying to turn undead and heal, while the Knight did his best to fight them back. So far they've managed to kill 7 of the zombies... a few remain.
It went better then I expected, but it was still a bit tough. When our fifth character joins it should go a bit easier I hope.
My group looks like this so far.
Human druid
Human warlock
Human rogue
Shifter monk
Half-elf ranger
The druid has taken the most punishment, being bashed into the negatives twice, with the ranger being knocked out once
I don't anticipate any problems as the group has been doing extremely well so far. They even pooled their cash after figuring our the vault combination and purchased a wand of CLW for the druid to use on them. Money well spent I say. Funny thing is the group is extremely defensive, but lacks a lot of offensive power. The shifter's feats are all revolving around boosting his AC and hp. The warlock is constantly staying out of melee to use his blasts, with the ranger taking the front lines most of the time. The druid is the only one that is getting into trouble usually as he just find himself in the wrong place at the wrong time in every encounter. The rogue is fairly new and just chucks daggers around, avoiding melee when possible as well. So I'm not really concerned about the lack of an arcane caster, but rather, the lack of a tough front-line melee character who can take on the meat shield role.
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The rogue is fairly new and just chucks daggers around, avoiding melee when possible as well. So I'm not really concerned about the lack of an arcane caster, but rather, the lack of a tough front-line melee character who can take on the meat shield role.
You might suggest to the rogue the advantages of flanking to use sneak attack damage, as opposed to throwing daggers. He should hold up OK as long as he takes some ranks in the tumble skill as well, to keep himself out of trouble.
"Do YOU know any sneaky gorillas? I think you mean guerilla."
thats funny. funny scary that is. ah, foreshadowing...
~D