I have a high-level (19) wizard who is an ex-necromancer who now uses his skills to fight undead.
I was thinking of creating a nasty spell that momentarily makes all the mindless undead around you suddenly become aware of who they once were and what they now are. The spell also gives them the ability to speak and feel for a short time, though this is mainly for flavour.
Game effects wise it makes all the undead in a radius around the caster fall to their knees and become shaken, prone, generally in shock. Imagine their rotten skull like faces howling in shock, surprise and agony! You would hear them crying "What am I?" "What happened?" "NoooOOOoo!" as they realise they are disgusting rotten monsters by awakening them.
After the spell has done its work I imagine the undead would either want to be dead or seek revenge against whom ever animated or created them.
I’m stuck as to what the spell should do next, any ideas?
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After the spell has done its work I imagine the undead would either want to be dead or seek revenge against whom ever animated or created them.
I’m stuck as to what the spell should do next, any ideas?
You said it yourself- have them seek revenge against their animater (automatic for lover levels, will save for higher levels)or, if the creater is already deceased, they crumble to dust (automatic for low-level undead, will save for higher levels). Kinda a Geas effect. If they slay the creater then they are released and crumble to dust, no save.
I picture a couple vampires jumping on a vampire lord with screams of "what have you made me!!" while the PC looks on and plans a devastating spell.FH
Huh? What the...? I could have sworn I posted on a thread just like this a minute or so ago. Weird. Maybe I'm seeing things.
The boards ate the first one, so I posted it again thinking it lost forever, only then the boards spewed it back up in order to mock me!
Very interesting idea you have there. I would say that one effect could be that any undead under the spell's influence are very susceptible to being turned (maybe have the attempt made as if the person were 4 levels higher). And maybe it could disrupt the connection to the negative energy plane, giving a bonus to saves against energy draining or ability draining attacks. Also, it could give the undead an AC or saving throw penalty.
After the spell wears off, I'd say that the undead affected by it would target the caster to the exclusion of all others. maybe they would even get a bonus on attacks.
You said it yourself- have them seek revenge against their animater (automatic for lover levels, will save for higher levels)or, if the creater is already deceased, they crumble to dust (automatic for low-level undead, will save for higher levels). Kinda a Geas effect. If they slay the creater then they are released and crumble to dust, no save.
I picture a couple vampires jumping on a vampire lord with screams of "what have you made me!!" while the PC looks on and plans a devastating spell.FH
I think we’re all on the same page in regard to how I want this spell to work, any ideas on level, ranges? I always have difficulty with balance and end up making things incredibly over powered. :)
...automatic for lover levels...
Lol, where can I find this class, sounds romantic! :D :P
Sounds like a variant revenant undead or "Revenancer" spell from City of the Spider Queen. I think that was the adventure it came from. Forgotten Realms
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Huh? What the...? I could have sworn I posted on a thread just like this a minute or so ago. Weird. Maybe I'm seeing things.
Whooaa!
You getting blackouts, man?
Maybe you weren't yourself for a while? Maybe your previous life is taking control; becoming aware....?
Anyone out there been practicing that spell?
Wwwooooohhhhh hhoooooooo!
(...Twilight zone music....)
Ok, so you want a spell that will:
1. Bring the soul(or at least the conscienceness) back to the undead creature.
2. Free the creature from the control of it's Creator.
and
3. Cause said undead to seek vengence.
To me, I believe this has the makings of a great epic spell. I think anything that would create all of these effects would have to have an epic spell seed. I am going to take some time playing with the idea. To help out with it, how long do you personally want the spell to be active? Do you want it to be round based? Up to how many creatures will you want affected? What kind of radius or area of effect? This could turn out to be an awesome spell if we put our mind to it guys. Lets all get our brainstorming on the table...
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I think we’re all on the same page in regard to how I want this spell to work, any ideas on level, ranges? I always have difficulty with balance and end up making things incredibly over powered. :)
I would say 9th but you may have to look at several spells for inspiration.....Mass charm for durations, saves and effects of certain actions with regards to re-saves. Either Speak with dead or raise dead to guage how a bit of the soul gets back into the creature (maybe magic jar also). Geas/Quest for the "revenge against the master" thingy. Mass charm is 6th level for a bard/8th for wizard but we are only really looking for durations and saves and not the actual effect. Geas/quest is 6th level across the board/lesser geas is 3rd-bard or 4th-wizard.Hmmmm....no Mass Geas. May need some severe limitaions to keep this out of Epic spell range. Speak with dead is 3rd level-cleric while raise dead is 5th.
I would say make the spell range close and use a 10'radius burst which affect any creatures within the burst. Duration 1 hour/level. Will negates. Full round action to cast. SR-yes.
There needs to be a limit on the how powerful a creature can be affected. Maybe a modified "turn" type check but using the casters primary casting ability modifier.
You could also make a lesser version that only effects one creature.
Intelligent undead may need some special thought.
Thats all I got for now....
FH
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My suggestion is to take a look at the Book of Exalted Deeds and consider making this an Exalted spell. It's a good way to get away with beefing up the spell's power without actually raising it to epic levels. The sacrifice for the spell could be 1d4 Con or something along those lines to reflect the caster giving some of his life energy to bestow a semblance of life on others.
True, you could make it a Sacred Spell with a Con cost, that would tone down the spell from epic porportions. But I would still have to say that it needs to be a min of 9th level. We are talking a pretty powerfull thing. Even at a 1 round/level duration, that is going to be a min of 17 rounds.. Imagine what a horde of undead can do to an individual in 17 rounds...
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True, you could make it a Sacred Spell with a Con cost, that would tone down the spell from epic porportions. But I would still have to say that it needs to be a min of 9th level. We are talking a pretty powerfull thing. Even at a 1 round/level duration, that is going to be a min of 17 rounds.. Imagine what a horde of undead can do to an individual in 17 rounds...
Oh, I absolutely agree that it should be a 9th level spell. I'm just saying that by making it a Sacred 9th level spell, you help avoid making it an 'epic' spell, which complicates things in all kinds of crazy ways.
It should probably also have some kind of pricey material component to offset it a little more, but I can't think of anything that would be particularly appropriate in this case.
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The best referencial spell I can think of is Undeath to Death. It's a 6th level spell with medium range and it destroys 1d4 HD of undead per caster level (max 20d4) within a 40' radius burst. It allows a Will save to negate and SR applies. It also has a 500gp material component associated with it.
I think this is a fine starting place for designing the spell in question. The new spell could be called Undeath to Life. As a balancing factor, let's make it a Sacred spell with 1d6 Con damage as the sacrifice. We'll also shorten it to close range (possibly even centered on the caster only), keep the 40' radius, and raise the cap of hit dice it can affect to 25d4. I would also keep the caveat from Undeath to Death that states that the spell affects the lowest HD creatures first. Any creature that fails its save is reminded of its former life. The creatures must then make ANOTHER Will save (with a static DC 12). If they fail that one, they are treated as nauseated and shaken for the spell's duration as they recoil in horror from the truth of their existance and will take no hostile actions except to defend themselves. Those who pass this second save are filled with hatred for their creator and will do whatever they can to extract revenge on the one who created them (even if all they can do is provide valuable information to the caster in hopes that he will carry out their revenge). At the end of the spell's duration (or immediately if their creator no longer exists), these undead are simply destroyed painlessly, released from the dark magics that bind their spirits to the material world. I would say that the spell's duration should be 1 min./level.
If the undead are under the effects of a command undead spell or similar effect, this spell does not destroy that effect but allows the affected creature to make another save with a +4 morale bonus to shake off its effects. After all, even a mind that is fully aware of what it is doing can still be magically controlled.
What do you all think?
But what if they think that being undead is actually kinda cool?
Fate, I think we have the makings of a great spell. Now for the costly material component. I am thinking of a couple things that might be pretty good.
1. A feather from an Angel - Astral Deva, Planetar or Solar (my favorite).
2. 10,000gp of Diamond Dust (tossed into the air) - all the resurrection spells use diamond dust, it fits I think.
3. Blood of an innocent freely given (But more or less, you are doing this one with the sacrifice of the Con and yes, 1d6 would be appropriate I think).
Those are a couple of ideas, but I really am thinking the feather from an Angel would fit the best. Give the spell a component that must be quested for, and the angels represent very powerful forces of good. The diamond is used in all resurrection spells, so I see it as a "life" giving material component. The blood of an innocent is just for fun, to kinda get the ball rolling on ideas for a material component.
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Fate, I think we have the makings of a great spell. Now for the costly material component. I am thinking of a couple things that might be pretty good.
1. A feather from an Angel - Astral Deva, Planetar or Solar (my favorite).
2. 10,000gp of Diamond Dust (tossed into the air) - all the resurrection spells use diamond dust, it fits I think.
3. Blood of an innocent freely given (But more or less, you are doing this one with the sacrifice of the Con and yes, 1d6 would be appropriate I think).
I agree with the feather idea. As for the dust, you're not actually "resurrecting" the undead, just bringing back the memories of their lives. This spell destroys them at the end of the duration so I don't find this to be particularly appropriate (but I understand where you're coming from). Finally, for the blood, I don't usually approve of the idea of Sacred spells using anyone's blood but the caster's own and, as you said, we're pretty much reflecting that in the 1d6 Con sacrifice anyway.
If I added anything else as a component, I would say the tears of a widow or a parent who grieves a lost child.
I think we should stick with the feather, it is the one that sounds the best. Think of the conversation.
Adventurer:
"Mighty Solar I need to ask a small favor."
Solar:
"If it is for the greater good, I will gladly help you."
Adventurer:
"Well, there is this evil necromancer who is terrorizing the people."
Solar:
"Point me in the direction and I shall smite him."
Adventurer:
"Actually, can I just have a feather."
:) I can actually see that happening for some reason.. LOL
The tear is a good idea, but I think the feather would be more than sufficient. I am going to work on writing up the spell now...
Redeeming the Dead or Undeath to Life
Level: Sacred 9
Components: V, S, M, Sacrifice
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Personal
Effect: 40’ Radius Burst Centered on Caster
Duration: 1 round/level (Permanent)
Saving Throw: Will
Spell Resistance: Yes
(Body Text)
Sacrifice: 1d6 Con
Material Component: A feather from an Angel (Astral Deva, Planetar, or Solar)
Fate, want to do the body text?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Redeeming the Dead or Undeath to Life
Level: Sacred 9
Components: V, S, M, Sacrifice
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Personal
Effect: 40’ Radius Burst Centered on Caster
Duration: 1 min./level (Permanent)
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell briefly returns the mortal soul of any undead creature within its area of effect to its body and allows the undead to see themselves as they truly are without the taint of negative energy to cloud their judgement.
This spell affects up to 1d4 HD of undead per caster level (max 25d4) and affects creatures with the lowest HD in the area of effect first. Undead who are caught in the area of effect who fail the Will save have their humanity restored, but only in mind and spirit, not in body. Creatures so affected must make another Will save (DC 12) or be treated as nauseated and shaken due to the horrifying realization of what they have become. These creatures cannot act except to defend themselves from attack for the duration of the spell. Creatures who succeed at this save are filled with a powerful thirst for revenge upon their creator and will do everything in their power to destroy him (even if all they can do is provide the caster with valuable information to carry out their revenge for them because the creator is far away, for example). If an undead is its own creator (a lich, for example) or was created willingly, it is simply destroyed as its own dark energies turn in on itself. If the creatures' creator no longer exists, these undead die painlessly, their bodies crumbling away as their spirit is released peacefully into the afterlife.
If an undead who is affected by this spell is under the effects of a command undead spell or similar effect, it does not automatically break the control but does allow the undead to make a new save against the effect with a +4 morale bonus. (Note: The spell creates a thirst for vengeance upon the undead's CREATOR, not its controller, if these people are different.)
Undead who succeed at the initial save are stunned for 1 round/caster level and suffer no other effects from this spell.
Sacrifice: 1d6 Con
Material Component: A feather from an Angel (Astral Deva, Planetar, or Solar)
Thank you much Fate...
R-Type, your request has been completed. Submit this beauty to your DM and see what he has to say. I can see this coming into play in one of my future games. Good luck and good gaming.
Thank you much Fate...
R-Type, your request has been completed. Submit this beauty to your DM and see what he has to say. I can see this coming into play in one of my future games. Good luck and good gaming.
Well, well, well, you go to visit your relatives for the weekend, having a thoroughly depressing time talking about illness, religion and the futility of existence over dinner and then leave for a horrible, cold, dark long and boring eight-hour drive home.
Nevertheless, not all’s that bad! I get home and there is a fabulous spell waiting for me on these very boards! You are quite simply some of the most talented, friendly and helpful folks on the web. Thank you for all you have done! Feels like I’m getting an early seasonal gift. Cannot wait to hand it into the GM next Sunday.
:) Brilliant!
Just a couple of suggestions... I like the title 'Redeeming the Dead' better than 'Undeath to Life.' The second one is bit misleading, as it brings to mind resurrection-like connotations. Additionally, I'm a bit confused about the duration. The information block reads "1 min/level (Permanent)." After reading the flavor text, I believe that it should read "Instantaneous/1 round per level" or "1 round/level (Instantaneous)" if you prefer. Either way, the undead destruction is an instantaneous effect. Undead that succeed on the saving throw are stunned for 1 round/level. Undead that fail, but aren't instantly destroyed you want to turn against their creator to the tune of 1 minute/level (if I'm reading this right). That's all well and good, but now you have one spell creating three different effects of varying duration. That makes the spell's 'stat block' hard to read. Maybe the 'turn-against-your-maker' effect could have an unlimited duration, but be countered by a cleric's rebuke undead ability? Just my thoughts...
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Just a couple of suggestions... I like the title 'Redeeming the Dead' better than 'Undeath to Life.'... ...Maybe the 'turn-against-your-maker' effect could have an unlimited duration, but be countered by a cleric's rebuke undead ability? Just my thoughts...
You're right, Amal. I like the first title better myself. Also, I don't believe it would be too much to say that the undead are permanently turned against their creator but yes, as you said, there is nothing that prevents the undead from being controlled all over again.
Director of Game Development
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I had not read this thread yet so I got in all in one gorgeous dose. Beautiful job guys! That was pure magic seeing that spell created so well. I like the Redeeming the Dead title, but it is a bit off because its actually undead that are being redeemed. Redeem has a connotation of buying back, or relcaiming a possession through payment, which does fit. I submit the title Purify Undead. I think it fits with the tone of an ex-necromancer.
Also, I was wondering how much easier it would be to restore the undead victim to full life having a semblance of its soul reconnected to its body?
But what if they think that being undead is actually kinda cool?
Excellent point. And 'cause I LOVE shades of grey, a possibility I would include in the shaping of the spell were I to use it. If the creature in life was such that it would be horrified by what it's become, (and I'm talking personality here, not species)then I would have it progress as written.
IF, however, that's not the case, then I would have it giving a boost to the undead due to the sudden adrenalin rush (figurativly speaking as there's no working adrenal glands anymore) of the power of immortality, undead type, etc. And no griping about "the eons of life before me devoid of hope..." etc., etc.,.... no whiney Ann Rice vampires allowed in my world. The older ones happy with what they are killed them off.
Of course, the likelihood of this would also vary by type. I can't imagine anyone short of Nicole Richie being thrilled at being a skeleton, but something with a little more pizzaz?.... sure, it's believable.
Creates a great dilema for the cleric... do I cast and take out this group of undead.... or cast and risk making them stronger? OR... an undead newly awakened by this spell returns later as a central villian.... the PCs created him... now they gotta DEAL with the ramifications of what they've done.
I love it.
And I would have it have no effect on Liches and others who willingly became undead and retained free will.
Another idea -
A spell that changes the nature of undead hunger - amplifying it - but twisting it so they want to feed ON OTHER undead, which the spell temporarily gives the the ability to do - when the spell wears off those levels have a sort of "toxic" effect on the undead that did the dining.
Seems like the kind of thing you wanted the "Undead Fighter" to do.
OR
A spell that eliminates so that energy absorbed affected undead creatures damages rather than feeds the creature - 1d8 per negative level conferred or ability score drained.
OR
A balancing spell - the presence of an undead - and the negative energy in them - opens a "balancing" channel of energy to the positive material plane - the strength of this channel is based on the HD (or CR) of the undead present and bolsters the living in the area - energy resistance, fast healing, "Bless/Prayer" type effect, etc. Could have different flavors of spells for different effects - it doesn't need to be all that epic as it is pretty situation specific.
OR
A "Fury" (as in the Furies from greek mythology) type effect - invokes hellish spirits that torment the undead creatures for not behaving as the dead should. Sort of death elementals gathering their own back to the after life.
OR
Maybe I should just write a query letter
Someone mentioned the duration. The duration of 1/round per level is for the undead that are not destroyed. As for the Permanent aspect, that is for the undead that are destoryed.
It was also mentioned that the spell should not affect those who wanted to be undead. Well, the title, Redeeming the Dead, would go to say "Hey, you are wrong in your doings, you must make the sacrifice and leave this world behind." Thus the "redeeming" of the the dead. If you look up the spell Undeath to Death, it automatically destroys all undead up to I beleive 1d4 HD/level to max of 25d4, and I could be wrong here but it is either a 7th or 8th level spell (don't have my books with me). Even if it is a 9th level spell, we are not increase the power of the spell, just adding an additional effect for undead other than free willed.
It was also mentioned that the spell should not affect those who wanted to be undead. Well, the title, Redeeming the Dead, would go to say "Hey, you are wrong in your doings, you must make the sacrifice and leave this world behind." Thus the "redeeming" of the the dead.
From the original post: "I was thinking of creating a nasty spell that momentarily makes all the mindless undead around you suddenly become aware of who they once were and what they now are. The spell also gives them the ability to speak and feel for a short time, though this is mainly for flavour."
THAT awareness is the heart of the spell. Having it only work one way on ALL undead relies on the assumption that ALL creatures, no matter what their personality or goals in life, would react this way if not for some external taint that's clouded their thinking and is removed via the spell. I'm just saying it would be interesting to remove that base assumption and THEN see what the affects would be.
And that's why I LOVE D&D. 'Cause you get to do that. :)
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But what if they think that being undead is actually kinda cool?
In response to the people who were saying things along these lines, if you'll read the full spell description in detail, you'll find the following line:
If an undead is its own creator (a lich, for example) or was created willingly, it is simply destroyed as its own dark energies turn in on itself.
As for undead who were created unwillingly but now enjoy their existance, that is why this spell is a Sacred spell. The Book of Exalted Deeds is full of similar spells which cause creatures to feel remorse or regret even if they are truly depraved. This is no different. It FORCES morality on them.