I had to read through this adventure five times before I figured out that parts 4&5 take place in the middle of the game and not the end. Why Isn't it in sequence?
hehhe, such happens. No doubt after a bit playtesting and editing ;)
Afterall we have heard that several encounters were removed.
Creative Director
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I detailed the adventure in that order because it made for the best way to present the information. When you're reading through the adventure the first time, it might be a little jarring, but it's a lot easier to find things. If the entire Tamoachan section took place in the body of the overland journey, it would overwhelm the smaller encounters to either side and make them harder to find. By putting the big set-piece encounters (Tamoachan and the sargasso) in their own chapters, it's easier to navigate the adventure. In theory. Obviously, it's not as easy for everyone.
In any event, the rest of the adventures follow a more chronological approach to the way they present their information.
Actually, I've been meaning to post about this and other details from this adventure.
It was discussed elsewhere, but I'd like to add my praise for the layout of the NPC sidebars. They're great! It's too bad that potrait art isn't in the budget for every issue (because they're wonderful), but even without them I really like the sidebar layout. I think that it will make it very easy to find the NPC you're looking for when you need it in a pinch.
Now on to the topic at hand. I distinctly noticed the ordering of the adventure and I loved it. I thought that the "continue with part 4" at the appropriate moment made it very clear when I was supposed to turn to the set pieces. But having the whole flow of the adventure laid out like that is really nice. It made it clear and allows you to easily reference future events and lay the seeds for them as you go. Great stuff, James. Thanks.
I think James did brilliantly to make sense of my jumble.
It was quite a tricky one to come at from a layout perspective because I wanted so many things to be happening, one thing that worried me from the start was that plenty was going on for the players and the adventure didn't feel like a string of random enconters.
Rich
I adored this layout - this particular adventure really struck me as a sign of just how far the Adventure Paths have come - a three month voyage that advances the plot, ties in from the first adventures, leads you towards the rest, and still gives you a fresh 'we're on a different adventure!' feel.
Seriously - this really does bode to be the best A.P. yet, and it's obvious that the learning curve has been steep. I'm tempted to skip over Age of Worms and get started on Savage Tide as soon as my gaming group finishes Shackled City, just because I'm that excited about the set-up, flavour, and feel of the adventures.
Did you guys have any inkling of how successful these "Adventure Path" ideas were going to be at the time they began, way back there with Life's Bazaar?
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Creative Director
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Before Chris Thomasson came up with the audacious idea to do a multi-part adventure in Dungeon, the general knowledge was that doing something like this would kill the magazine, since each successive installment would be less useful as a stand-alone adventure. And for a while during the start of Shackled City, it was indeed helping to kill the magazine, along with the fact that some issues only had one adventure and they were splitting our audience with the Polyhedron section.
Yet once we dropped Poly and tried to do at least two adventures per issue, we noticed something; the Adventrue Path was doing great! Such that we recieved a LOT of feedback saying: I love Dungeon, but I only buy the issues with Adventure Path installments. Which is why we run them non stop over a year, now.
In any event, the popularity of the Adventure Paths turned out to be a quite pleasant surprise. yay!
To be frank a major issue was the whole sharing with polyhedron, and the just one or two adventures. All the while wasting (yes thats how i feel, confrontational or not) half the magazine on some silly beach game or whatnot.
I very much stopped biuying the magazine due to that. I mean shelling the full price for one or two that might not even fit any campaign at the moment.. gave that good old "damn ive been cheated" ripping feeling in my stomach. A feeling im sure most are familliar with, and that keeps you from going anywhere close by for a good long time!
Came back really around the second half of worms, and found the path so intresting i bought whatever i could find on it. Later did my best to hunt missing shackled magazines too.
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If you have a half price books near you, that might be helpful.
I just found 107 with the smoking eye, and about 4-5 other dungeons from that time that I have. I don't know what happened to my 107.
It seems like once every month or two somebody dumps their dungeon collection there.
What city do you live in? I live in Denver where there are many great book and game shops but I had to resort to ebay for those Dungeon Mags not in my collection. It does suck though when I do find an issue for half cover price in the shop several months after paying a fortune for it on ebay!
you know what incounter bugs me? the pirates ship. i mean these guys are such chumps that they are just waiting for a fireball to smoke them from a distance. - I will be beefing this encounter up a bit-
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What city do you live in? I live in Denver where there are many great book and game shops but I had to resort to ebay for those Dungeon Mags not in my collection. It does suck though when I do find an issue for half cover price in the shop several months after paying a fortune for it on ebay!I live in Dallas, and make my rounds at Half Price Books at least biweekly.
Oh, and I'm not originally from Texas, so that whole Texas vs. Colorado thing merely confuses me.
In any event, the popularity of the Adventure Paths turned out to be a quite pleasant surprise. yay!
I have to say that the Shackled City is what got me buying your magazine on a regular basis and I never had a group to play it. Age of Worms was great too. I was all set to play it with my group of PCs when I saw what you had planned for Savage Tide and new that would be perfect.
Hands down, the Adventure Paths are the best thing I've seen Dungeon do and I've been an off and on again reader since it was founded. You guys are doing a great job.
Coming up with an intelligent way of presenting any non-linear adventure in print is always a challenge. We juggle plot elements in our homebrews very naturally, since we've made them up ourselves--with the APs it's always good to study the adventure and figure out how the parts fit together. One of the beauties of the way this adventure is set up is that it's very easy to skip, reorder, or add encounters as suitable for your own campaign. I thought the two sections at the end were well marked out in the text--as in "when you get to C, here's what happens--details in section 4." If you're skimming through quickly you might miss it, but if you are trying to run the adventure straight through as written you should have no trouble noticing it and turning to the appropriate section. Think of an adventure more as a computer program than as a novel--flow-chart instead of linear progression.
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Creative Director
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you know what incounter bugs me? the pirates ship. i mean these guys are such chumps that they are just waiting for a fireball to smoke them from a distance. - I will be beefing this encounter up a bit-
Is that actually a problem? If the PCs do lash out at the ship upon first sighting it, using superior firepower... why not let them do it? In the grand scheme of the adventure, it's a minor encounter. It's good now and then to let the PCs completely walk over the opposition, especially since it actually makes them feel tough and as if they're growing more powerful. If every battle is a skin-of-the-teeth fight for life, it doesn't feel like you're ever getting anywhere.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yet once we dropped Poly and tried to do at least two adventures per issue, we noticed something; the Adventrue Path was doing great! Such that we recieved a LOT of feedback saying: I love Dungeon, but I only buy the issues with Adventure Path installments. Which is why we run them non stop over a year, now.In any event, the popularity of the Adventure Paths turned out to be a quite pleasant surprise. yay!
This is entirely off the original topic, but in line with your comments James. I would say that the other thing I like about the adventure paths is the way they provide a showcase for the best writers in Dungeon. My feeling about Dungeon these days is that it is worth the cover price for the adventure path alone; the fact that the other 2-3 adventures are of good to excellent quality is purely gravy. The quality of the magazine these days blows my mind.
And thanks for putting the names of the authors at the top of each page. In the past, I would note the author of an adventure only if it was someone I already knew (Chris Perkins is a good example). Now, with the author so prominantly displayed, I always find my eyes flicking to the top to figure out who is writing an adventure I am enjoying.
What city do you live in? I live in Denver where there are many great book and game shops but I had to resort to ebay for those Dungeon Mags not in my collection. It does suck though when I do find an issue for half cover price in the shop several months after paying a fortune for it on ebay!
Helsinki, in Finland.
But coming in january to san antonio to see a very good friend of mine, staying with her the whole month :)