Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Could there be Pokemon's too?I'd like to see an Adventure Path based around ninjas. Lots and lots of ninjas. At least a million. And they shouldn't be adjusted due to game balance and crap like that. Make them all CR 20, because in real life, that's how powerful ninjas are.
The whole point of the campaign would be to not get your ass handed to you as you seek out Chuck Norris to defeat the plague of ninjas.
Don't be ridiculous, Erik already said that the default setting of the Adventure Paths is Greyhawk, not Eberron.
I know...sunrise, sunset...
Aw, man. That's my jam.
"Is this the little girl I carried... is this the little boy at play... I don't remember growing older... when did they?"
Perhaps it's time for a new Greyhawk Wars. That other war was a long long time ago. 3.5 Greyhawk is revitalized due to Paizo's efforts, and it deserves its own catastrophically wide scale bloodshed. Hey, wait, did I just say that?I thought Greyhawk was revitalized because of the Living Greyhawk campaign?
Not for me, personally, Sam. I was going to mention this but I didn't want to offend any LG fans. IMO, Paizo is single handedly breathing life back into this once forgotten, then morbidly bloated yet market-irresolute, and now imaginatively thriving beast of a world.
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Not for me, personally, Sam. I was going to mention this but I didn't want to offend any LG fans. IMO, Paizo is single handedly breathing life back into this once forgotten, then morbidly bloated yet market-irresolute, and now imaginatively thriving beast of a world.
Yeah, why would more than 100 adventures per year, that freely uses all Greyhawk references without having to fudge them like in Age of Worms, or adapt them beyond the point of reasonable compatibility as with SCAP and now STAP, and more than 10,000 regular players, actually have anything to do with people knowing what the name "Greyhawk" even means?
Not for me, personally, Sam. I was going to mention this but I didn't want to offend any LG fans. IMO, Paizo is single handedly breathing life back into this once forgotten, then morbidly bloated yet market-irresolute, and now imaginatively thriving beast of a world.Yeah, why would more than 100 adventures per year, that freely uses all Greyhawk references without having to fudge them like in Age of Worms, or adapt them beyond the point of reasonable compatibility as with SCAP and now STAP, and more than 10,000 regular players, actually have anything to do with people knowing what the name "Greyhawk" even means?
Vrooooommmmmm....vroooooom......motorbike, motorbike.....you're not a security guard are you?
Sorry Samuel...what I posted is not meant in any way to be offensive to you. You may not believe it, though, but it's true.
Not for me, personally, Sam. I was going to mention this but I didn't want to offend any LG fans. IMO, Paizo is single handedly breathing life back into this once forgotten, then morbidly bloated yet market-irresolute, and now imaginatively thriving beast of a world.Yeah, why would more than 100 adventures per year, that freely uses all Greyhawk references without having to fudge them like in Age of Worms, or adapt them beyond the point of reasonable compatibility as with SCAP and now STAP, and more than 10,000 regular players, actually have anything to do with people knowing what the name "Greyhawk" even means?
So ya feelin' scrappy, huh? Decided that my last two posts somehow warranted your particular brand of crass sarcasm? It is amazing to me just how little it takes to provoke some people to rudeness. Do you have a history of antisocial tendencies that I can somehow help you work through? I'm not usually a candidate for offering free therapy to strangers and I hold no degrees in waste management but I suppose I can try.
You dog me over nothing and then what do you expect to happen next? What happens after you show that kind of overreactive insensitivity? Are we still having a conversation or are we fighting? See, the way you talk to people affects whether or not they feel they are even allowed to talk back.
You single handedly have demonstrated my reasons in having decided to not bring Living Greyhawk into my earlier point. YOU asked ME about Living Greyhawk, like a true master baiter. I didn't initially volunteer an opinion because I know how it goes with passionate types. What can I say? LG just isn't for me personally. I'm sorry that breaks you up inside. I really hope you don't lose sleep over this. I've seen the LG product and I guess I prefer the taste of Paizo fudge. So sue me. Guess we can't all worship your god. You obviously despise all the nefarious rule breaking that Paizo has accomplished and come to their site to say as much. Yet despite these adventures having re-energized many of our campaigns you don't see me tripping out and losing my spit over your sour judgements. It's called a mere difference of opinion. Not an invitation to act callously.
The 100 adventures per year is what I was referring to when I suggested morbidly bloated. I do apologize if I nicked a nerve. I truly did not mean to. It's how the words appeared in my head and I typed them in, thinking them harmlessly descriptive and nothing more. There is a certain level of dross in LG that I haven't enjoyed wading through in order to find the content I wanted to use. Much of it is good, but I don't want to work that hard to cull my rewards. That's my experience. Deal and move on, because if this is what you rattles you, I'd hate to have to warn you about melting ice caps, a world of lies, the Earth's magnetic field disappearing, and all manners of things that a man might better profit to fret over.
And why bother mentioning having 10,000 players? I see 10,000 flies hovering over your last post, but that doesn't prove it was good. I could counter that more than 10,000 people read Dungeon, but if you think LG is good then it's good. Who needs statistics and who cares what I think?
I've been playing in Greyhawk since it first arrived. You have no dominion over Oerth... a non-existent planet... in a game... that is fantasy... that isn't real. Regurgitate more fuel onto this sputtering waste of time if you need to; however, we are way past talking about the finer points of gaming.
I think an interesting twist on an AP would be to have it all occur in a short time frame in a very limited geographic location--like an isolated valley or a lost ruined city. The new PCs stumble across the location and uncover something very terrible and have to act "FAST"....while the AP takes its normal time to develop in the real world, by the time the PCs are 20th level and have saved the world, only about a week or two of game time has passed...
That would be interesting to me.
I think an interesting twist on an AP would be to have it all occur in a short time frame in a very limited geographic location--like an isolated valley or a lost ruined city. The new PCs stumble across the location and uncover something very terrible and have to act "FAST"....while the AP takes its normal time to develop in the real world, by the time the PCs are 20th level and have saved the world, only about a week or two of game time has passed...
That would be interesting to me.
Actually, that would be wild. Hard to imagine developing all those new feats in two weeks time but who cares? Imagine the blistering pace?
Iuz.
I'm with ya, Heathansson, but its not likely.
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I think an interesting twist on an AP would be to have it all occur in a short time frame in a very limited geographic location--like an isolated valley or a lost ruined city. The new PCs stumble across the location and uncover something very terrible and have to act "FAST"....while the AP takes its normal time to develop in the real world, by the time the PCs are 20th level and have saved the world, only about a week or two of game time has passed...
That would be interesting to me.
Hmmmm.... You haven't been combating the machinations of the Cult of the Dragon in Myth Drannor lately, have you?
Well, yes....we just finished that adventure....but Myth Drannor wasn't all that small. That was cool, though, because our characters went from 1st to 7th level in about 3 weeks game time. Having Noddle there to sell/buy stuff from his wagon kind of ruined it for me...I would have preferred something a bit more gritty, but I wasn't the DM.
I think an interesting twist on an AP would be to have it all occur in a short time frame in a very limited geographic location--like an isolated valley or a lost ruined city. The new PCs stumble across the location and uncover something very terrible and have to act "FAST"....while the AP takes its normal time to develop in the real world, by the time the PCs are 20th level and have saved the world, only about a week or two of game time has passed...
That would be interesting to me.
I like the idea of having the AP occur in a single location throughout. One of my few disappointments with AoW and STAP is how wonderfully detailed Diamond Lake and Sesserine are, and how little of that information is actually utilized in the adventures themselves.
The big drawback to this approach is how to keep the PCs on the path. A city, an island, whathaveyou are more suited to freeform exploration than a by-the-numbers format. The levels of railroading required are strongly prohibitive, and implementing cheats to defeat spellcasting would only come across as artificial.
Still love the idea, though...
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I love the War theme. A conflict between Celene and the Pomarj would be cool, but an all out Greyhawk Wars II would be even cooler.I was always under the impression with my limited knowledge of the World of Greyhawk, that the peace treaty signed in Greyhawk city was sort of a break from war and that tensions among the various nations was still in abundance but held in check until each side could regroup, rebuild and plan out new battle plans. Obviously the intention of the pact was for lasting peace, but that couls only last for so long.Im mean even Eberron is itching for a fight, after a short break from the last war and Im sure that War a world war in the realms couldnt be hard to justify. Whatever the next AP is a terstrial threat would be warmly welcomed over demons and divine threats.
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So ya feelin' scrappy, huh? Decided that my last two posts somehow warranted your particular brand of crass sarcasm? It is amazing to me just how little it takes to provoke some people to rudeness. Do you have a history of antisocial tendencies that I can somehow help you work through? I'm not usually a candidate for offering free therapy to strangers and I hold no degrees in waste management but I suppose I can try.
Bring it punk.
If you want to be dismissive of the works of other people, expect to be called on it. This is typical of the mindless little fanboy drones. You think because you suck up to some creative people it suddenly makes you an expert on a topic. Unfortunatly, it doesn't. Worse, you seem to think that only by constantly sucking up to them and putting anything and everything else down can you somehow justify your paltry existence as a leech off of their fame. How truly pathetic. Especially because, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Erik Mona was the first head of the Living Greyhawk campaign. So if you like the taste of Paizo "fudge," then you are chowing down on the yummy recipe of LG.And no, I didn't ask YOU about Living Greyhawk. I rhetorically posed the question as to the influence of LG on interest in GH in general. YOU chose to get your panties in bunch and be dismissive, and then go off on a hissy fit when I offered a dissenting view.
Take out some of your own garbage.
Bring it punk.
If you want to be dismissive of the works of other people, expect to be called on it. This is typical of the mindless little fanboy drones. You think because you suck up to some creative people it suddenly makes you an expert on a topic. Unfortunatly, it doesn't. Worse, you seem to think that only by constantly sucking up to them and putting anything and everything else down can you somehow justify your paltry existence as a leech off of their fame. How truly pathetic. Especially because, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Erik Mona was the first head of the Living Greyhawk campaign. So if you like the taste of Paizo "fudge," then you are chowing down on the yummy recipe of LG.
And no, I didn't ask YOU about Living Greyhawk. I rhetorically posed the question as to the influence of LG on interest in GH in general. YOU chose to get your panties in bunch and be dismissive, and then go off on a hissy fit when I offered a dissenting view.
Take out some of your own garbage.
It just keeps talking. It's arguments don't get any better... but it just keeps talking. You know you've changed my mind. I now love every single element of LG and don't think that any of it is bad. You have convinced me because you, sir, are one incredible advocate.
I don't have garbage to take out. You jumped all over me and you got your face bit. As always, cause and effect. You didn't actually present a dissenting view. You only presented a dis. Even now that it's heating up... I'm still staying in the reality ballpark you're over there saying I wear panties? HOW DID YOU KNOW? I will have you arrested for going through my drawer! Those aren't even mine... they're for a friend. What's the next brilliance up your sleeve? Calling me Nancy? Are you six?
You can't really speak to the content of your own behavior so you have to name call and make a bunch of assumptions. So now I'm supposed to defend against these assumptions and let you sidetrack me with a heap o' mindless asides? It's a diversion and not one iota of it has basis. It's as if you're just throwing out a bunch of random insults and hoping something sticks. You're innaccuracy at guessing who I am displays the same delusion you must employ to stay blind to your own dysfunction.
But I do have to ask... I don't even understand how anything I've ever done has been leeching off Paizo's fame. I don't even know what that means. Is Paizo famous? I grew up around actual famous people. You don't see me name droppping. Ever. Well, except for that right there. Damn. Nevermind.
I didn't put any specific thing down until you put me in the position of having to state a preference. You have that so twisted around. Go back and read the way you baited me. I wasn't even talking about LG and you asked me and I gave you my honest opinion. You were the one who made it ugly. I envy you, winnerbignonfanboylivinggreyhawkdefendersuperman. If only the world were more like you we'd all be right all the time and no one would ever have to confront their own obsessiveness. This last post of yours only furthers my earlier points about the invalidity of bothering to talk to you.
And if fanboy is an insult... you'd have to wonder what you are that you freak out when someone says he doesn't like your favorite thing and you turn into Sammy Sarcastic. That smells like fanatacism to me. I'm not in the habit of putting down specific bodies of work, but when something isn't for me I feel fully free to speak my mind in public forum. I guess you're just going to have to somehow come to terms with that.
It seems the Greyhawk Wars have already begun. Kids, I want you to put away your GH toys and go play outside.
As for the next AP...snake-oids! We could use snake-oids! ("Tremors" anyone?)
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Iuz.I'm with ya, Heathansson, but its not likely.
Just curious. Why don't you think it's likely?
I think it's real likely, but it's just based on my own speculations, and I'm afraid if I voice them I might give something away.I remember I ruined the ending of Psycho for a bunch of people once when I was in 9th grade, and it still haunts me.
I now love every single element of LG and don't think that any of it is bad.
Since when has lawful good been such a bad thing? I know a lot of people have problems with paladins, but c'mon. I mean we devils have no problems with whom we corrupt. Can't we all just get along?
El Skootro
Next AP should involve Gelatinous Cubes with levels of Barbarian for Flurry of Blows.
I think an interesting twist on an AP would be to have it all occur in a short time frame in a very limited geographic location--like an isolated valley or a lost ruined city. The new PCs stumble across the location and uncover something very terrible and have to act "FAST"....while the AP takes its normal time to develop in the real world, by the time the PCs are 20th level and have saved the world, only about a week or two of game time has passed...
That would be interesting to me.
Even better: 24 adventures, each adventure repesents an hour in the exciting lives of the party as they attempt to unravel the machinachions of the BBEG...ALL IN REAL TIME! Boop...beep...boop...beep...boop...beep
Seriously, I think the other concensus at ENWorld was a shorter AP, from 1st to 12th. I'd like to see that myself. The Pomarj/Celene war backdrop would be cool.
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It just keeps talking. It's arguments don't get any better... but it just keeps talking. You know you've changed my mind.
Your confusion continues.
I have no desire to change your mind, I am only correcting your foolishness. You are free to remain wallowing in your ignorance.As for the rest of your whining,
Iuz.I'm with ya, Heathansson, but its not likely.Just curious. Why don't you think it's likely?
I think it's real likely, but it's just based on my own speculations, and I'm afraid if I voice them I might give something away.
I remember I ruined the ending of Psycho for a bunch of people once when I was in 9th grade, and it still haunts me.
I'd like to hear those speculations, Heathansson, I'm curious. I don't think its likely for a couple of reasons. One: Iuz is a demigod and a tough s.o.b. demon, both of which have been done in the two previous APs. Two: I'm not sure Paizo would go with something that Greyhawk specific. Even though SCAP and AoW were both Greyhawk by default, they were still kept pretty generic and easy to adapt to FR or Eberron. Iuz has his roots pretty cemented in GH and that might make it tougher to keep it generic for all them FR and Eberron players.
Like I said, I'm with ya for a Iuz campaign, it is by far my favorite GH land and villain. Wish we'd see more adventures here. Let's hope...
Oh, and don't worry, I already know the ending to Psycho!
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I'm sorry. I'd love to; maybe when the (possibly self-imagined) cat is out of the bag, I'll reveal my thinking.
OR,...if I am proven wrong, if my epiphany proves untrue, then I'll be free to reveal it at a later time and proffer a unique and interesting twist on things.
Either way I gain by my silence; frankly I hope I'm wrong, and I've just thought it up by myself. Then I get to be the inventor of the idea.
Until then, mum simply must be the word; too many people I have taken a liking to would get mad at me.
It just keeps talking. It's arguments don't get any better... but it just keeps talking. You know you've changed my mind.Your confusion continues.
I have no desire to change your mind, I am only correcting your foolishness. You are free to remain wallowing in your ignorance.
As for the rest of your whining,
Does it really matter whether LG or the pathetic Paizo fanboys have breathed life back into Greyhawk? It's alive!! Glorious.
How come someone with a different opinion on LG is considered ignorant?
This is typical of the mindless little fanboy drones. You think because you suck up to some creative people it suddenly makes you an expert on a topic.
How does having an opinion different from yours make someone think they're an expert on a topic?
How in the world can you possibly make the mental leap that liking something makes you a mindless self-proclaimed expert? There was no quoted expertise here. "I like Dungeon magazine so I'm smarter than you." Where in the world did you come up with that?
I've learned in recent years that calling someone a fanboy is considered an insult. Maybe I'm unclear, but when did it become uncool to like something? Being as I'm very concerned about my internet image, I will make a definite attempt to be more cool and socially acceptable to the much more sexually attractive, aloof, eyebrow arching masses who show only the faintest interest, but quickly move on to other things, lest it be known that their mild observations may actually be misconstrued for the uncool spectre that is fanboyism. So, thanks for pointing out to me the mindless drone that I am. Perhaps now I can finally get laid.
Are clove cigarettes still cool? 'Cuz if they are, I gotta go get me a pack. I'm also cancelling my subscriptions to pretty much everything. I'm on a 12-step program to liking nothing. Thanks!!
Got a great idea for an adventure path!
A bunch of Paizo subscribers get sucked into the D&D world get handed a bunch of weapons by a midget-guy in a red dress. They then proceed to bash each other whilst proclaiming the supremecy of their homeworlds and millions of innocents die. I think we can stretch this to 20 levels, whaddaya thunk???
COME ON GUYS!!! Let's get back on topic.
James/Erik - Do you think the above has got legs?
I'm sorry. I'd love to; maybe when the (possibly self-imagined) cat is out of the bag, I'll reveal my thinking.
OR,...if I am proven wrong, if my epiphany proves untrue, then I'll be free to reveal it at a later time and proffer a unique and interesting twist on things.
Either way I gain by my silence; frankly I hope I'm wrong, and I've just thought it up by myself. Then I get to be the inventor of the idea.
Until then, mum simply must be the word; too many people I have taken a liking to would get mad at me.
Fair enough. In the meantime, I'll just keep my eye on these boards.
If not an Iuz AP, I'd love to see something done with the highly ignored Great Kingdom.
If not an Iuz AP, I'd love to see something done with the highly ignored Great Kingdom.
I like this. Perhaps the "limited geographical location" I mentioned could be the city of Rauxes. BBEG at the end is Ivid.
An interesting twist would be if the City really wasn't overrun by demons or extraplanar stuff, but that what happened in Rauxes had a terrestrial (oertherial?) explanation.
It just keeps talking. It's arguments don't get any better... but it just keeps talking. You know you've changed my mind.Your confusion continues.
I have no desire to change your mind, I am only correcting your foolishness. You are free to remain wallowing in your ignorance.
As for the rest of your whining,
The Jade as Punk who brings it on, take one billion:
One tactic in arguing points is to simply refuse to ever connect wavelengeths with your opponent. If seems to me that may be your modus in this, our merry go 'round.
You've suggested a feminine aspect to my character because I refused to accept a small dishonor at your quite vehement hands. If defending myself buds my chest out a bit, then call me Sally Brown. I read back to your first approach and my well meant responses and I really can't do the math on this one. At no point in those first two posts was I thinking that what I was writing would be taken with offense. Do you get that? And then you hit me with snitty sarcasm and hey, I don't confront sarcasm from strangers with sarcasm of my own. Personal preference. I confront it with a personal read off and then move to set an immediate boundary. I did with you and I'll do it with the next person who decides my ego looks appetizing. If you think I expended too many words in doing so, well then that's your preference, but what you call whining I call taking the time to call you out on valid points. I stand up for myself, you see. Sure my last two letters were angry with you, but I kept my points related to the evidentiary content you'd presented me and nothing more. I didn't guess at your old GPA and I didn't suggest you have unclean uses for a cucumber.
It seems to me that you may have had extra voices inside your head egging you on, making you think I was someone else you actually knew and disliked. Or perhaps some of the things you barked at me yesterday were once aimed at you yourself. I can't know the truth. But I'm suggesting these only because those descriptions you offered for me just aren't appropriate for me, and yet they're all very cohesive. They do seem to form someone's description.
Like I said, were past talking about gaming points. You don't have a problem with somone else thinking something about a game. You just seem to have a problem. Perhaps we really should have Paizo create some sort of proprietary argument arena so people who detonate within someone else's thread have a place to move it to. I know I'd slow down to see that accident. Call it 'Flame Dome!'
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At no point in those first two posts was I thinking that what I was writing would be taken with offense.
Ah . . . the inevitable lie.
"I was going to mention this but I didn't want to offend any LG fans."
That's what is so reliable about your type. No matter what, you always wind up trapping yourself with your lies.
The rest is also SOP, from that disingenuous beginning, to the ad hominems, to the assertion of moral superiority because personal attacks are "better" than sarcasm, but it all winds up fulfilled when you get to the lies.
Good job!
I don't know if I like the arguement more or the discuss about the Adventure Path.
Seems to me though that your calling the kettle back by calling someone else a fanboy.
I can't make an informed decision on which is better Paizo or Living Greyhawk, because I have never been interested in even researching Living Greyhawk, and Paizo's brand of generic greyhawk allows me to adjust to my own campaign world, heck even the material for Forgotten Realms and Eberron is easily adjusted to my own world, so I can't really say who is right in this case.
EDIT: I do have to disagree with you in the end there Samuel, Jade said personally not, but wasn't going to mention that as not to offend the obvious delicate sensiblity of some Living Greyhawk fans... maybe you feel that Paizo is stealing the thunder from LG? Does that make you feel angry? sad? You must feel the need to lash out and prove that Living Greyhawk is the one true Greyhawk, and that Paizo is nothing more then a falsehood, preaching false doctrines of Greyhawk, all heretics must burn, yes?
I can't make an informed decision on which is better Paizo or Living Greyhawk, [...] so I can't reallysay who is right in this case.
Neither is better than the other. They are different, and appeal to different tastes. Nobody is right from an objective Point of View when it comes to matters of taste.
Stefan
At no point in those first two posts was I thinking that what I was writing would be taken with offense.Ah . . . the inevitable lie.
"I was going to mention this but I didn't want to offend any LG fans."
That's what is so reliable about your type. No matter what, you always wind up trapping yourself with your lies.
The rest is also SOP, from that disingenuous beginning, to the ad hominems, to the assertion of moral superiority because personal attacks are "better" than sarcasm, but it all winds up fulfilled when you get to the lies.
Good job!
Right there is a major part of the problem. You seem very certain you know my type. Armed with pitiable hubris you've relentlessly tried to pigeonhole me into a category you believe you comprehend.
What is this lie you refer to? You didn't reveal a lie. I wasn't trying to withhold an offensive truth by not mentioning LG in my first post... I was simply trying to avoid mentioning LG so as to not single out a specific market I didn't care for. One more time. I was trying not to offend fans of specific market by saying that Greyhawk product has not impressed me until the last few years. Why would I demonstrate this sort of sensitive restraint? To cover up my seething despite of LG? No, because I don't hate LG, I just can't invest in it. I showed restraint because I've noticed that when some say they don't like LG certain others go rabid and start scaling the walls like someone insulted their mommas. So, if we're typing here...
So, since there was no lie, you've proven yet once again that your mind cannot even accept the idea that maybe you're a crabby reactionary who picked on a guy who didn't deserve it and was just on a forum to enjoy himself. Your offense to my posts shows that you're a hair trigger brat with more lexicon than sense and self awareness. I am not disingenous. I am always sincere, self exposing, knowingly full of faults, and frank. You are almost comically awful at reading people.
You just keep moving on to your next attack and don't take the time to answer for anything you've said or been asked. I, on the other hand, am going back to each and every line that was said and discussing it. I think you've got your glasses on backwards in this one, Sam. This is either manic diversion as tactic, self delusion in orders of magnitude, or you're just not reading my replies through to the end. If the latter is the truest, please go back, take a second look at the posts, and try to interpret this thing more holistically.
And I never said my avoidance of sarcasm was superior. I said it was my preference. You didn't even read that right and I couldn't have been any clearer. I was even thinking as I typed it, "I don't want anyone thinking that I'm trying to say that my way of doing things is best," yet you STILL jumped on it.
You are like the Dark Universe Don Quixote, seeing me as a dragon for vanquishing, when I'm just a guy typing in a windmill. Stop lancing my ass.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, Samuel, but I believe your disapproval of Paizo's handling of Greyhawk material (born out by your derisive comments regarding SCAP, AoW and STAP) is based on your dedication to LG and the fact that every adventure is coordinated and whatever and that you can't play certain adventures and get LG points or something.
I believe that LG is just one GH campaign and it isn't any better than mine or anyone elses. It's bigger, yes, but leviathian status doesn't mean LG has any more claim on the judgment of worthiness of GH material than my cobbled together semi-canon homebrew. There's no limit to imagination, which is what makes this game and hobby so appealing. If you don't like it change it. To form this derisive opinion of the AP's, you must have read them, so by doing so you certainly have way more than enough information to make whatever changes you need to make to make them fit your vision of GH.
Using LG's 10,000 players and its choreographed adventures as a whipping stick to try to intimidate any one player or any one publisher into doing it only the LG way is a fascist approach. I, for one, resent it and the very fact that many of the LG fanboys (not all of them, just most of them)I've encountered cloak themselves with that particular air of superiority doesn't endear LG to me at all.
EDIT: I'm sure LG is fun to play, otherwise it wouldn't have thousands of players. I think LG is worthy of respect and all players who have played LG games or campaigns have a lot to add to the tapestry of D&D. I just wish some of its ambassadors would be a bit less self-righteous.
Talk about a flame war. This one's an everlasting torch.
My renewed interest in Greyhawk has nothing to do with LG (other than buying a copy of the LGG, but that came afterwards), it has to do with the AP and the Greyhawk adventures that have appeared in Dungeon.
If not an Iuz AP, I'd love to see something done with the highly ignored Great Kingdom.I like this. Perhaps the "limited geographical location" I mentioned could be the city of Rauxes. BBEG at the end is Ivid.
An interesting twist would be if the City really wasn't overrun by demons or extraplanar stuff, but that what happened in Rauxes had a terrestrial (oertherial?) explanation.
That sounds cool. Even better if you throw in Xaene the two-headed lich pulling all the strings, leading the PCs to take down Ivid.
Still, something in Almor would be good too. Go up against Duke Szeffrin. By the way, what does BBEG stand for? I'm pretty sure it refers to the final villain of the campaign, right?
An interesting hypothetical — the BBEG as a thing rather than an individual.
A few possibilities come to mind off-hand:
-A group of good-aligned wizards attempt to cast a powerful, benevolent spell but something goes wrong. A powerful extra-planular effect results that slowly begins changing the reality of the Prime Material. The course of the AP follows the PCs as they combat one disturbance after another seeking the epicenter of the effect as well as a means of stopping it.
-Along similar lines, but this time its a powerful demonic artifact whose evil radiation has bent its lawful good guardians toward depravity and violence. The ultimate end of the AP is the destruction of the artifact rather than a "boss battle." (The PCs would still have to fight through the most powerful of the corrupted guardians to achieve this, and the destruction process would be just as challenging as a "boss battle.")
That's all I have at the moment...
Talk about a flame war. This one's an everlasting torch.
I see now that Samwise is LG luminary and editor so I understand that it's his baby. But in my opinion he went fishing for insult and found it where it wasn't offered.
I really enjoyed his recent Vecna article with Sean Reynolds--Dragon #348 if you want to check it out--but then talent and good manners don't always sit at the same table.
I am somewhat surprised at the suggestions to center the next AP on the Great Kingdom or Iuz or any other very Greyhawk specific material. I am not raging on Greyhawk here, it is just fine, but it seems clear that in the past APs the staff has made a concerted effort to make connections to old modules independent of world connections.
Looking at some examples, Dragotha was referenced on a map to White Plume Mountain (I think that was the name) which later was put into Greyhawk... but Dragotha was a throwback to old D&D material, not old Greyhawk material.
Same with the Isle of Dread... old D&D material, not necessarily old Greyhawk material.
Yes, I understand that much of the old D&D material was then moved into Greyhawk or was in the home brew campaign that spawned Greyhawk (and likely D&D itself). But that doesn't change what Paizo is trying to do, or at least what it has appeared that Paizo is trying to do with throw backs to old classic D&D products.
Anyway, I am, once again, not trying to say these are bad ideas, I just don't think they are in keeping with what we have seen historically from Paizo on thes APs and therefor not likely to be a choice they go with. By all means keep ideas coming though.
Sean Mahoney
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Well, the first time I dealt with the Isle of Dread, the Mystara campaign (to my knowledge) was just a few pages of suggestions and a map in the X1 module, so I see what you are saying, but I had allready made the switch from what I'll call Mystara Incognito to Greyhawk at the tender age of a pup.
And I don't mean to disparage the Mystara campaign in any way shape or form, I have one or two of those campaign gazzetteer things peppered among the tomes in my shelves. I just mean to point out that it's not much of a leap of faith for me; in my mind the Isle of Dread is there on Greyhawk.
I also had a kernel of an idea once that the Isle of Dread probably exists within a dimensional anomaly much like the imagined Bermuda Triangle, and as such is attainable from several campaign settings. What a powerful flashpoint for Demogorgon to unleash the Savage Tide on multiple prime material worlds.
It would also help possibly explain the knowledge of so many of the Aztec deities from the planet earth in the Amedio Jungle of Oerth.
I really enjoyed his recent Vecna article with Sean Reynolds--Dragon #348 if you want to check it out--but then talent and good manners don't always sit at the same table.
That was a good one. I wish the snide derogatory comments towards the APs, fanboys and the LG air of moral superiority on things GH didn't rile me up as much as it did.
Back on topic--I really wouldn't mind it at all if the next AP was not in Greyhawk. I wouldn't want it in FR or Eberron either, but in a truly generic world so that the fans of all three campaign settings could have the opportunity to truly shape it to fit their own home campaign.
That would defuse a lot of the criticism from the non-GH fans who refuse to do any customization/adaptation work and would reduce the complaints for those awaiting the conversion notes.