Hey there everyone ^^ Sorry if these sound silly, but I just have a few questions if anyone is willing to answer...
First, I'm trying to make sure that everyone in the party can do well, and not get stuck feeling useless. Are there too many undead (I know the spawn of Kyuss are, as well as Lashona and a few more) for a standard rogue to be effective? Would be be better off with an alternative type of skill-master? (Bard?)
And on the flip side, are there so many undead that a cleric who is specialized in turning be overpowered? Or are there so few that it would be wasted effort?
The last thing is that after reading through all the things about Diamond Lake, I have to say that I am a little overwhelmed. Does anyone have any good suggestions on how to get things moving, with a good bit of RP within the town, but not dragging the PCs all over to every far corner of the town?
At the moment, we have these PCs:
Female Human Cleric of Pelor
Male Half-Orc Barbarian
Male Human? (His character isn't fully finished) Ranger
Male Gnome Sorcerer
Male ??? Rogue (Idea was presented, character not made)
And one final one with no idea yet.
Any other suggestions for party balance?
Thanks for your time. ^_^
I think you'll find it balanced from level 1 through 20 for many classes.
That said, I have three new players who jumped in around Level 19 (we're almost finished). One of them is a spell thief, and knowing what is in store, I introduced a minor artifact called "Grey's Anatomy". Its a tomb that discusses in detail the various aspects of undead anatomy, pointing out weaknesses that only the most skilled of rogues could hope to target.
Essentially, the rogue can now sneak attack undead, and in his case more importantly steal their spells and spell-like abilities. But as many on this board might attest to, I do things a little unorthodox if the case merits it.
A rogue with an item of grave strike would come in handy often. An ideal way to introduce it, if no one can be found to craft it, is to have it be one of Manzorian's gifts in exchange for the fragment of the Rod of Seven Parts.
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Our party would likely have been thrashed in WC if we were rogueless...or at least, would have taken much heavier attrition. (Our wizard likes to charge into battle without considering the terrain, and our elf-girl tends to frolic off in random directions from time to time...) Search ends up being dreadfully useful in the labyrinth in 3FoE, though this module seems overall to be less trap-intensive. Rogues make for a fairly decent multiclass, so that could be a compromise.
The rogue makes a great choice in AoW because of three major reasons:
1. Use magic device
2. Gather information
3. Find/disarm traps and open locks
These three things will make the rogue VERY useful and enjoyable for the player.
Give the rogue a wand of burning hands (which I believe Tyrol Ebberly has in his weapons shop) and he'll be effective against undead. In fact, the rogue/invisble blade in my party recently charred a pair of ghoulish lizardfolk during our last game, on their way to the Twisted Branch lair.
Gather information can be just as good as a divination spell in urban settings, and it can set up great role-playing (or combat) scenarios.
Also, remember it's not always necessary that every PC get their licks in on every monster. That mentality tends to manifest at my table during combat. Everyone's gotta get their licks in! I find it somewhat idiotic concerning certain classes like rogues and bards. It's ok for the rogue to hang back and search for secret doors and traps while the brawlers clean up.
Play rogues.
Thanks for all the help! ^_^ So the rogue will be fine, and I had completely forgotten about UMD! (I'm not a rogue player very often myself)
My other question is still up in the air though. How would a turning-based cleric fare? Would being able to turn 8-9 times a day (Extra turning >.<) be wasted effort? Or would it make some of the encounters too easy? (Don't forget, she is also a cleric of Pelor with the sun domain, those greater turnings can be nasty...)
I noticed that a fair number of the spawn of Kyuss have turning resistance, which may make those extra uses useful, but I'm still unsure. This player is reletively new, so I want to give her a hand.
Oh, and I have one more question, if you guy's don't mind. ^^
In terms of party balance, what would you suggest for the last player? He is also new to the game, so I thought maybe he could get a few good suggestions from you guys. ^_^
I was thinking of reccomending Bard maybe, for the extra boost all around, a bit of healing here, a bit of blasting there, some backup skills in case the rogue decides to focus on physical rather than social...
How would a turning-based cleric fare?
I think you'll find a turning-based cleric will be quite powerful. Despite the turn resistance of many of the spawn of Kyuss, you'll find the ability to be well worth the effort.
In terms of party balance, what would you suggest for the last player?
I think bard is your best bet for all of the reasons you listed; plus more UMD is always a plus.
If not a bard, a paladin is incredibly useful in AoW. Immunity to fear is priceless in this campaign.Hope you have a fun game.
If he's a new player, I don't suggest bard. You need to have played the game a bit to have fun playing a bard, IMO. Paladin is a much better idea, quite useful, and an easy concept for a new player to slip into.
Thanks for all the help! ^_^ So the rogue will be fine, and I had completely forgotten about UMD! (I'm not a rogue player very often myself)
My other question is still up in the air though. How would a turning-based cleric fare? Would being able to turn 8-9 times a day (Extra turning >.<) be wasted effort? Or would it make some of the encounters too easy? (Don't forget, she is also a cleric of Pelor with the sun domain, those greater turnings can be nasty...)
I noticed that a fair number of the spawn of Kyuss have turning resistance, which may make those extra uses useful, but I'm still unsure. This player is reletively new, so I want to give her a hand.
Oh, and I have one more question, if you guy's don't mind. ^^
In terms of party balance, what would you suggest for the last player? He is also new to the game, so I thought maybe he could get a few good suggestions from you guys. ^_^I was thinking of reccomending Bard maybe, for the extra boost all around, a bit of healing here, a bit of blasting there, some backup skills in case the rogue decides to focus on physical rather than social...
Admittedly, the cleric in my AoW game didn't go into an anti-undead class like the Radient Servant of Pelor, but she did tend to turn quite a lot. It worked out fine for her until the party progressed pass standard spawns of kyuss. Most high level undead have a ton of HD and turn resistance on top of it. In short, let your cleric go sun happy, it's easier than remembering 20 different buffs on the fighter types.
As for the last character a Paladin would be pretty handy, charisma and a lumpy metal thing +2 are always a good combination. A druid would prove useful, if paperwork intensive. I like to use Soulknifes in situations like this. It requires little DM support to add djores and the like, they're a backup fighter type, and they have a lot of style. Monks are much the same way.
I think that a turning cleric could be very useful. I can really only speak from personal experience for the first couple of adventures though, and thus far our turning cleric hasn't been able to do much.
SPOILERS
She tried to turn Alastor Land, but couldn't without a natural 20, if even then. The skeletons in TFoE were dust at her feet though. But the allip in TFoE was completely beyond her reach. Turn resistance plus the unhallow effect of the temple makes turning the allip a red herring for the cleric. I thought that this could be a particularly dangerous waste of time for someone being wisdom drained...
I'm not sure quite how the rest of the undead in the path are going to shake out, but it seems like the cleric will get a few sops to her turning but lots of the undead are going to be pretty resistant to the concept. So no, the cleric probably isn't too powerful and it's always nice to have a medic along!
If he's a new player, I don't suggest bard. You need to have played the game a bit to have fun playing a bard, IMO. Paladin is a much better idea, quite useful, and an easy concept for a new player to slip into.
Agree with this statement 100%. Paladin doesn't overwhelm the new player with spell choices, etc. and he/she will become very popular with that resist fear aura once the spawn come out.
Probably spoilers here...
Hey there everyone, sorry for the slight thread necromacy, but I have another question. I am currently playing through the WC with my group (Which due to several people being unavailable, is now the iconic 4), and I think I must be doing something wrong.
At first, I figured I would give out exp at the end of the adventure, but looking ahead, they won't likely survive if I do that, Filch will snap them like twigs...so, using the DMG and the ELs listed for the campaign, the PCs have enough to be level 4...and they have yet to meet Alastor...
I'm thinking I'll Ad Hoc the exp down a bit from here on out, but I'm wondering if this is something that seems right to you guys...they didn't even manage to get down into the submerged area. (Which makes me wonder about fighting the Grick without that shortsword.)
The wolves were EL 3, which by the DMG is almost enough to level the PCs up to two, then the burning hands trap will push them over that edge, then another CR 3 from the beetles and the mad slasher, and you are almost level 3 right there! Am I doing something wrong?
Are you dividing the experience up between the party members? A ECL 3 fight is indeed 900 experience, divided by 4 (or number of party members), not per character.
Doh! Thanks ^^;
Additionally, you need to be awarding XP by the individual CRs of the creatures, not the EL of the encounter.
Sean Mahoney
Ah! Can't...resist...threadjack...
Threadjack
I used to teach large groups of kids in an outdoor environment for five hours at a time. I was really good at getting all of their names in a short term way. But after a couple of hours when little Joey took off his bright blue coat and orange hat, I couldn't remember his name anymore because he looked different.
I get this feeling at Paizo sometimes when people change their avatars.
Ack! Sean! What happened to your face? My god man, is it contagious?
/threadjack
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Ah! Can't...resist...threadjack...
Threadjack
I used to teach large groups of kids in an outdoor environment for five hours at a time. I was really good at getting all of their names in a short term way. But after a couple of hours when little Joey took off his bright blue coat and orange hat, I couldn't remember his name anymore because he looked different.
I get this feeling at Paizo sometimes when people change their avatars.
Ack! Sean! What happened to your face? My god man, is it contagious?
/threadjack
Me too! It's so bad that when I flip through the Dragon Compendium and see that leather S&M mask looking thing, I immediately think of Steve Greer. It takes me forever to readjust to avatar changes, but the worse is when someone posts with James Jacob's T-rex, Erik Mona's cyclops thing, or the avatar of another regular poster. The only exceptions are the Jade and Lisa Stevens, who've been using the same avatar for so long that I always know to look at the picture _and_ the name.
Have you considered the optional rule in complete divine for turning undead. The rule is d6 damage per level to all undead within 30 feet who get a will saving throw for 1/2 damage (save =10 + cleric lvl + Cha bonus.)
Blasting undead can appeal more than just turning. Search for alternate turning rules on this messageboard as this has been discussed previously.
Steve