One of the most interesting chapters in the Player's Handbook II was the chapter on affiliations.
Could we perhaps see some affiliations included in STAP, either in the magazine or in supplemental on-line material?
Creative Director
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One of the most interesting chapters in the Player's Handbook II was the chapter on affiliations.
Could we perhaps see some affiliations included in STAP, either in the magazine or in supplemental on-line material?
Yes. Affiliations will be part of the Savage Tide adventure path. Not exactly sure where the information for them will end up yet though...
As an aside: How interested would people be in seeing some affiliations tailor made for an Adventure Path?
I don't have PHB II. Could anyone explain what affiliations are?
Allies, contacts, organisations for pc's?
Since I don't know exactly what affiliations are, just like Taurendil, I am writing down my wishes for an organization the PCs could join.
It would be great to have some AP-specific affiliations at hand, when the PCs are created. Some with ties to a demon prince (especially Dagon, Graz'zt, Orcus) would be nice. Since I am planning to run a campaign with swashbuckling dark heroes (riding the thin line of Neutrality, just one step away from evil) a duelling society as desribed in dragon #301 is what I am aiming at, so corresponding affiliations are what I need.
BTW I really liked the traits presented in the Shackled City hardcover and the prestige classes for the two previous APs, too. :)
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As an aside: How interested would people be in seeing some affiliations tailor made for an Adventure Path?
I feel kind of wanky commenting on this without a full understanding of affiliations. Ergo, my gut feeling, totally unencumbered by a full understanding of what I'm talking about, is that it would be a good thing. It's always nice to see what is being or can be done with a new rule. Also, with an adventure path, any little bit of fluff or crunch that helps flesh out a milieu is a bonus; in a situation where one makes such a massive time investment as an adventure path, supplied backstory has increasing utility.
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Creative Director
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I should have been a little more clear with my question: Basically, I wanted to know if people would like to see 8 or so affiliations for their PCs to join and be a part of for the duration of an Adventure Path. Accomplishing goals for an affiliation can make for excellent side-plots to run alongside of the campaign's main plot, and they also are a great way to add to the mythos of the Adventure Path since it's something that the PCs can take part in and nurture.
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I should have been a little more clear with my question: Basically, I wanted to know if people would like to see 8 or so affiliations for their PCs to join and be a part of for the duration of an Adventure Path. Accomplishing goals for an affiliation can make for excellent side-plots to run alongside of the campaign's main plot, and they also are a great way to add to the mythos of the Adventure Path since it's something that the PCs can take part in and nurture.
Hi there,
I just received my copy of PH II. Yes, affiliations give players a way to deeper immerse into a campaign giving their characters an additional tie to the campaing world. I would like very much to see some affiliation choices in the next adventure path, preferrably as an accompanying article e.g. in Dragon or as a download.
Optimal would be if this information could be combined with the tie in information about official WotC Campaign Settings. E.g. there are the organizations A, B, and C, applicable for fighters. In the Forgotten Realms organization A has its power centre in the city of X, organization B can be replaced by organization Y etc. pp. ...
I would like to see more articles in general about this neat concept. Feats and new PrC are fine, but what do they help e.g. starting players not having yet a grasp on the campaign world. For that reason I would like to see generic affiliation samples in the pages of either Dragon or Dungeon (e.g. in class acts).
Günther
Affiliations in the Adventure Paths? Most assuredly! Anything to help increase the depth of immersion as well as (from a marketing standpoint) increase interest in a new rulebook.
I would say YES.
As an aside: How interested would people be in seeing some affiliations tailor made for an Adventure Path?
Yes, please!
From now on, it's not 'Make Mine Marvel,' it's 'Pretty please, Paizo?'
I should have been a little more clear with my question: Basically, I wanted to know if people would like to see 8 or so affiliations for their PCs to join and be a part of for the duration of an Adventure Path. Accomplishing goals for an affiliation can make for excellent side-plots to run alongside of the campaign's main plot, and they also are a great way to add to the mythos of the Adventure Path since it's something that the PCs can take part in and nurture.
That's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of when I started this thread.
Yes! Yes! Yes!
~grumble, grumble, grumble~ Great! Just great! Now you all are making me wona to go out and buy the PHB II. As if I need a new D & D book. ~grumbles~ Perhaps I should get another hole in my head too? ~grins~
On the other hand, that sound like it would be a very fun addition to the game. Hell, I may just add some affiliations to SCAP when I run it.
I just received the PHB2 and that was the standout section of the book, and probably what I will go read first. I think, although I haven't fully read it yet yet, that tailor made affiliations would be ideal in a AP setting. It would add some more interesting possiblities to the AP. I was looking the other day at SCAP, and the gnome merchant who offers the Adventurers Discount (can't recall her name). Is that sort of along the lines of what you were thinking of?
Basically, I wanted to know if people would like to see 8 or so affiliations for their PCs to join and be a part of for the duration of an Adventure Path.
Only if they are adapted (or WORTH adapting) to Eberron or the Forgotten Realms.
Please keep in mind that just because something is bland enough to put in any stew doesn't mean it should go in a recipe. If the material fits into a setting then go ahead and make it a part of the setting, otherwise it's generally less interesting.
I'm also in favor of affiliations being integrated into Savage Tide. However, I agree with the posters above who have said they need to be adaptable for use in Eberron and the Forgotten Realms (or extra, setting-specific optional affiliations need to be included for those settings).
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Creative Director
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Only if they are adapted (or WORTH adapting) to Eberron or the Forgotten Realms.
Please keep in mind that just because something is bland enough to put in any stew doesn't mean it should go in a recipe. If the material fits into a setting then go ahead and make it a part of the setting, otherwise it's generally less interesting.
Whether or not they'll be WORTH adapting will be up to the individual DM. I can say that I think the affiliations we've come up with are pretty cool, and that they'll add a lot to the campaign by giving it recurring themes.
That said, the affiliations first and foremost must speak to Savage Tide. If we come up with one that works great for Savage Tide but doesn't work for Eberron... it'll still go in. A Dungeon Adventure Path has to be true to itself before trying to fit in to numerous diverse campaign settings, is what I'm saying.
That said, Savage Tide will be as classic D&D as Shackled City and Age of Worms, so I have faith that none of the affiliations will have ANY problem fitting in to Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Mystara, Birthright, Spelljammer, or Baria (the name of my home campaign; please substitute in the name of your own home campaign if you're reading this post).
Whether or not they'll be WORTH adapting will be up to the individual DM.
Which is me, which is the opinion (and every other individual DM here) you asked for. (Which is weird, because you asked if we were interested when you sound like you have already work on, if not finished them.) I'm saying it should not only be possible to adapt; it should be worthwhile to the worlds, not just the bubble you've decided to build.
When you start making things like new organizations and affiliations, you're clearly going beyond the realm of somewhat linear (and more adaptable) adventures and stepping into open ended play territory. This is exactly what FR and Eberron were designed to be (as you agreed in the past), so please don't try to encourage me to reinvent the wheel here. I don't want to see affiliations that are similar to organizations in existing worlds yet distinct and intrusive enough that they need to be introduced as new factions. Can you say if this the case?
That said, the affiliations first and foremost must speak to Savage Tide. If we come up with one that works great for Savage Tide but doesn't work for Eberron...it'll still go in.
I have a question then: do any of the affiliations offered as OPTIONS (because that's what you're producing here, not CANON) fit well in Eberron or the Forgotten Realms but not in Greyhawk? Why not?
A Dungeon Adventure Path has to be true to itself before trying to fit in to numerous diverse campaign settings, is what I'm saying.
Just remember that tools and options are more useful than maintaining an epic storyline that has "to be true to (Greyhawk)". This isn't a classic Greyhawk module, despite how the Isle was significantly adapted to the world in 114. Infusing Demogorgon worship, the Olmans and putting demons all over the place is not true to the original locale. You Shackle Citied a classic by hijacking it with the demon material you know and love.
I mean really, what exactly do you mean by "true to itself"? You're developing these affiliations in parallel with the development of the AP. How exactly can you present FR, Eberron or even Greyhawk material that would intrude on the AP if the AP is truly worth adapting to all of these settings in the first place?
That said, Savage Tide will be as classic D&D as Shackled City and Age of Worms, so I have faith that none of the affiliations will have ANY problem fitting in to Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Mystara, Birthright, Spelljammer, or Baria (the name of my home campaign; please substitute in the name of your own home campaign if you're reading this post).
I don't remember Age of Worms having many, if any, player-centric affiliations. Organizations like the Seekers were boring and presented with no flavor or background (guess you need to be a Greyhead to appreciate them).
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Creative Director
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It's far too early to talk about the details of the affiliations we'll be creating to go along with Savage Tide. I was mostly curious what people thought about the concept; I think they're really neat. Neat enough to make an integral part of the campaign, if not part of the adventures themselves.
I'm not interested in turning this thread into another pointless argument about whether or not Adventure Paths or Dungeon in general should have more Eberron content or defending my vision for the magazine, though. It seems to me, based on this small sample, that people are interested enough in affiliations that our decision to include them in Shackled City was the right decision. As to what the affiliations are, you'll have to wait for issue #139 to find out. (Or perhaps #138; we intend on doing a 4 page preview of Savage Tide there.)
It's far too early to talk about the details of the affiliations we'll be creating to go along with Savage Tide. I was mostly curious what people thought about the concept; I think they're really neat. Neat enough to make an integral part of the campaign, if not part of the adventures themselves.
I'm not interested in turning this thread into another pointless argument about whether or not Adventure Paths or Dungeon in general should have more Eberron content or defending my vision for the magazine, though. It seems to me, based on this small sample, that people are interested enough in affiliations that our decision to include them in Shackled City was the right decision. As to what the affiliations are, you'll have to wait for issue #139 to find out. (Or perhaps #138; we intend on doing a 4 page preview of Savage Tide there.)
Bring it on James... I'm sure i speak for the vast majority when i say ANY additional content would be welcomed (after all it is ultimately up to the DM to decide if they wish to use it or not)
just my shiny copper piece worth
Affiliations and Organisations would definitely be awesome additions to the adventure path.
This is shaping up to be AWESOME!
I got the PHB II recently, and have been pleased with virtually all the content that I've studied thus far. I've been saving Afilliations for last, since it seems to be the most in-depth new optional mechanic, but if it works as smoothly as the rules for running a busines in the DMG II then I feel it could only enhance the STAP. If I get a good handle on affiliations and think they're worth the effort, I'll probably be tayloring a few for my ongoing SCAP campaign. So my opinion is yes, adding them will be a good thing, because more options are always appreciated.
While I like the concept of affiliations it seems that there are a few things in the rules which strike a problem with me. One of the first things I noticed is that the benefits seem completely arbitrary and are based on the person's reputation within the affiliation, rather than on the size or strength of the affiliation (except with regards to the person's reputation, since in larger affiliations its more difficult to gain greater benefits). While this is okay from one standpoint, the affiliation's size should play more of a part, as the powers for smaller affiliations are no different from the powers of larger affiliations as the rules currently stand.
The second problem rule wise is how the strength and size of an affiliation can be altered during the game by the actions of the PCs or their enemies. What happens if the PCs take half of an affiliation's membership into a battle and they all die? What are the rules for this if it happens? What if the PCs take on a kingdom-wide enemy affiliation and destroy their headquarters? How much is the affiliation weakened? This again seems to be an arbitrary decision on the part of the DM, as there doesn't seem to be any rules covering it. What if an affiliation suddenly recruits 100 new members due to the PCs actions? What happens? Am I just misguided and the rules have been under my nose all along, or is there something to my rant?
By the way, will there be any enemy affiliations for the PCs to combat in Savage Tides?
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As an aside: How interested would people be in seeing some affiliations tailor made for an Adventure Path?
I have to say that as a player currently in the shackled city campaign,the litle options that players can choose to take (like nobility which my character took)has greatly enhanced play for my fellow players and myself at the table. So to have affiliations tailored to Savage tides, which I plan to run in the future would be a warmly welcomed idea.
I have one more point to raise about affiliations (by the way, I'm not having a go at affiliations being in the next AOW, I just want to make sure any problems are headed off at the pass before they surface). Now to my point:
1. It seems that the only way to increase an affiliation's size/power/capital is by throwing gold at it (or magic items, equipment, etc.). How does this increase the size/capital of a tribe of feral nomadic halflings, or a druid's circle? Whether or not a 10,000 gp magic item increases the circle of influence or size of such an affiliation seems completely arbitrary. How does a 5,000 gp diamond increase the size/power of a drudic circle, or a ring of protection +3 increase the size/power of a gnoll tribe? I would like there to be other methods for affiliations to increase in power/size/capital that PCs can directly contribute to without simply passing off gold.
Just another thought ;)
Yes. Affiliations will be part of the Savage Tide adventure path. Not exactly sure where the information for them will end up yet though...As an aside: How interested would people be in seeing some affiliations tailor made for an Adventure Path?
Ummm...very? I would personally love to see tailor made affiliations - to me that is about the only way to go. I see the PHB 2 affiliations as examples - each affiliation should be custom made to fit an individual campaign, imo.
That said it would be good if these affiliations were known about and detailed as quickly as possible - ideally in conjunction with or just before the first adventure from the Savage Tide AP hits Dungeon. It would give every DM a chance to include them at character generation.
I should have been a little more clear with my question: Basically, I wanted to know if people would like to see 8 or so affiliations for their PCs to join and be a part of for the duration of an Adventure Path. Accomplishing goals for an affiliation can make for excellent side-plots to run alongside of the campaign's main plot, and they also are a great way to add to the mythos of the Adventure Path since it's something that the PCs can take part in and nurture.
Reads like an excellent idea and as a subscriber to your magazine would be in favor as long as it does not require me to purchase the PHB II to implement the concept.
I like the idea have multiple affilations in an adventure. Scackled city and couple ogrizations but they didn't seem to stick around more than one or two adventures.
I would also love to see affiliations in Savage Tide.
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Yes please, I liked affiliations in the PHBII, porblem is having ones specifically useful to a campaign (and the PCs specifically) i.e. don't just appear overnight as the DM got a new sourcebook halfway through the campaign :) In this case having them embedded from the start, or early on, should aid emersion.
Out of curiosity why do these forums not have polls for this sort of thing? It would put to bed all sorts of issues and give realistic metrics as opposed to trying to deduce whether certain opinions are truly representative for a body of people, as opposed to just individuals with the largest foghorn :)
Anyway, it is clear the ayes have it (although that's basing it on the opinions of about a dozen people). Hurrah for democracy! So know we can get down to speculating what the affiliations might be, including any antagonistic/protaganist ones.
What about the Black Cult of Ahm as an affiliation in the STAP? Perhaps at mid to high level.
James, I am so glad to hear that you are strongly considering doing this.
I am a HUGE fan of the APs. I got the PHB2 and this section immediately jumped out at me. I was hoping the APs would incorporate them.
As you know, I think the Dungeon adventures (and teh APs in particular) are as much instructive as they are useful as adventures in themselves. They show how professional designers deal with design issues. The Affiliations in the PHB2 are neat models, but they arent tied to a campaign. They exist in a vaccuum. Publishing Affiliations for an AP will show, adventure by adventure, how to use and incorporate specific Affiliations.
I think it is a great idea and I cant wait to see it!!!
Clark
Frankly, I was thinking of cooking up some Affiliations for my SCAP campaign. But, as prior posters have said, having this content from day 1 of the campaign and having it available to the DM is really important. So if you do this, please do it sooner rather than later.
Clark
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I just got the PHBII, and yes, now even more I'd like some affiliations in the Savage Tide.
I wish I had a clue as to what they would be. I'd like to try to make one up against what the authors did, running off of a background blurb, just to test my mettle at makeupitudinality.
Until then, I'll while away the hours trying to figure out what the chalky cliff with "no more than one eye, and no less than 5 mouths within it" is.
sounds good.. and im sure some laidback player will see no conflict of intrest in joining say: "local pirates of the bloody skull", "cult of black scrolls", "moonstars" and "cult of the dragon".
Yes, all at the same time..
rationalising it like this: two are basically about gathering information, one demands faith in dragons ruling all and one more for local pirating. Heck, all those pirates would likely be better of serving dragons too :D