Adamarchus, Kyuss, Demogorgon...
Which demon prince, evil entity, or cult lord is your favorite bad guy to work behind the scenes in your campaigns? They can be homebrewed or from any edition, but stake your BBEG's claim in history.
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Back in the day (I6) we had a lot of fun with Strahd. I Kept resurrecting him over and over(bucket of blood over his ashes, etc...) the way Dracula was constantly resurrected in 1960's B-flicks.
Nowadays, I'm liking Iggwilv. I think she has AP final badmofo potential in spades. She jacks around demon lords, for crying out loud. Girl don't play play.
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Yep, Iggwilv is a nice one.
I guess the scarlet brotherhood as an entity is REALLY great (a kind of hydra : you kill one guy from the SB, you may find yourself confronted to two) : just like mosquitos in a swamp, you'll never catch them all.
Iuz is absolutely delightful... as a MEAN guy.
Also the Acererak lich/demilich with the dyptique (don't know how to write that in english) "Tomb of horror" - "Return to...".
The whole AoW has great uber-bad guys.
While not necessarily evil I always thought that Primus (the baddest modron ever) would be an intriguing bad guy.
Law in one hand, chaos in the other... He Who Is Balance would be one helluva force to be reckoned with.
Hmm...are we talkin' from pre-established settings or your own campaign setting? If it's preestablished, and non-deific, here's my list:
Greyhawk - Rary. You know, the Traitor.
Forgotten Realms - Szass Tam. Will mess up your world eight ways from Firstday - before you're dead.
Eberron - The Lord of Blades. He's in that fun, hazy gray area of "I'm not quite sure he's bad, but he sure ain't got a halo." Plus, very cool concept. Otherwise, the Lords of Dust. The name kinda defines them, don't it?
As for my Forgotten Realms campaign, I have a couple.
Venger? Venger??? Sweet, FH.
And Lil', keep in mind that I tried to open the thread to anything homebrewed. If you don't mind sharing your personal evil genius with the rest of us...
Vecna of course!!! How can you go wrong with a guy who 1. outwits the entire Greyhawk Pantheon and the Dark Lords of Ravenloft and 2. Almost reshapes the whole Multiverse in his image.
His plans would have worked too!!! If it wasn't for those meddling adventurers and their mangy dog!!!
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Greyhawk has the best bad guys - IMO, Rary wins hands down, but Iggwilv is great too; she's never seen but always felt. The exception, of course, being that little snippet in "Return of the Eight" that probably still has players bragging about seeing Iggwilv and living to tell the tale.
I don't care all that much for Iuz (he feels too much like a Sauron rip-off to me), but his cadre is suitably nasty, with Kerwin Mindbender and Althea as the most memorable. However, despite the very minor role he plays, I kinda like Greyhawk's other resident demigod - Wastri, the Hopping Prophet and the Hammer of Demihumans. Seriously, how can you not like anyone called the Hopping Prophet?
Which demon prince, evil entity, or cult lord is your favorite bad guy to work behind the scenes in your campaigns? They can be homebrewed or from any edition, but stake your BBEG's claim in history.
Aodhinn. He was a Balor Sidhe in an online changeling campaign I ran. He was the Sephiroth of my gaming experience. *sigh*
Man, Szass Tam is the guy!
First of all, he is a lich, what is great: all that thing of coming back again and again, plus the fact that if he is messing with you, he is probably messing with your family/clan/city/tribe/whatever for generations. This last part is great, cause you maybe can track trouble back in history, making PC´s work their brains instead of their muscles for a while.
Then there is all that part of being a real bad ass in Thay. You will not have a chance to stand against him if your idea of confrontation is kicking his door and finding him in his slippers reading newspapers. He has a whole country of bad ass mages between him and the party, so he can avoid direct confrontation anytime.
And finally, if you ever confront him face to face, there is always that quickened-maximized-energy drain waiting for you...
Aodhinn. He was a Balor Sidhe in an online changeling campaign I ran. He was the Sephiroth of my gaming experience. *sigh*
Does that mean you all died...lol
Tell me if anyone has heard of him, but I like Malkazar, (I think thats right) the industructable dread wraith from Greyhawk. He left everyone with bad memories and the aspect of Nerull mini the GM had for him didnt help at all.
And Lil', keep in mind that I tried to open the thread to anything homebrewed. If you don't mind sharing your personal evil genius with the rest of us...
Heh, heh, heh...
Well, the one my players have come to absolutely LOATHE is Durandron Illistyn, father (adopted) to one of the characters. Tebryn (said character) is sneaky, smart, cunning, likes a good plan, specializes in a double-knife attack style and loves to get the upper hand on the other guy. He learned everything he knows from Durandron. (Durandron is drow, by the way, and an assassin. He used to work for a House in Menzo', but got tired of the Matron Mother he worked for and schemed and maneuvered his way to eliminating the House and becoming a free agent.) Durandron later left for the surface and started his own "House" in Cormanthor and has been slowly winning a war of attrition against House Jaelre and the other drow who've taken over Cormanthor.
Durandron likes power, you see - but not overt power. He'd much rather be in control of the guy who can mow down an army rather that mow it down himself. Not that he's a slouch in the combat department - far from it. Rogue/Assassin/Perfect Wight with several varieties of bane daggers makes for a lethal combination. His contacts and favors stretch the face of Toril, from Waterdeep to Thay to Halruaa.
All these things are annoying to a player and their character, right? That's not the part that makes them LOATHE Durandron - it's the fact that this guy has no problem waltzing into their hometown and waltzing right back out. Durandron always has multiple plans to make a quick exit and walk out unscathed. He knows his enemies and their weaknesses, but more importantly, he knows the party, where they live, who they talk who, who they hand around with and who their families are.
The party is constantly wondering when Durandron will make an appearance again and why he's there. Durandron always has a reason, you see - it's just finding out his goals before it's too late.
Side Note: My favorite moment with this arch-villain o' mine has to be the lunch scene. One of the other players, a part-time ambassador as well as adventurer, was walking the Promenade in Suzail when he sees Durandron casually sitting down for dinner at a table made for two. Durandron has been expecting the ambassador, you see, and made sure to place himself in the path that said ambassador usually walked. I won't go into details about the lunch conversation, but the other players squirmed as the conversation went on (I disallowed any comments besides the ambassador - "you can't help him here"). They knew this guy was a threat but couldn't do a damn thing about it on a city street full of innocent people.
So that's my favorite villain from my Forgotten Realms campaign.
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In published D&D Rary, Iggwilv and Pazuzu are probably my favorite evil powers.
In homebrew, I had a Grell that I loved to use as the BBG... Boush-uth, the Connoisseur. He grew a special strain of Obliviax (Memory Moss) that he would use to pull away fragments of victem's memories and eat like dainty little canapés...normally wrapped around disected bits of the victem's body. One sliver of finger and memory at a time, he liked to consume the creature completely. He had a Derro task force who worked under him. They were...disturbed. Even for Derro.
In non-D&D, one of my favorite groups is from my Deadlands (horror western) campaign. They are called the Noose Dancers. Their leader 'Juarez' Tommy Nix was hung for war crimes in the Mexican Army (no mean feat, in and of itself), but he survived. All the members of his gang have to 'brand' themselves with a hangman's noose-burn. If you're a vile S.O.B. with enough sand to ride with the Noose Dancers, you have to tie your own noose and get hoisted. You hang there, feet kicking and throat being crushed down on by the heavy hemp rope. If 'Juarez' Nix cuts you down, you've made it into the gang. They like to hang innocent's as well. Most of my player's hate them more wholly and passionately than anything I've been able to muster in any other game. It completes me.
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Vecna of course!!! How can you go wrong with a guy who 1. outwits the entire Greyhawk Pantheon and the Dark Lords of Ravenloft and 2. Almost reshapes the whole Multiverse in his image.
If you name Vecna, we can not forget his second Kas !
What a nice villain : evil, cunning, and so self-confident he thought he could kill a very powerful lich-deity by himself... and he almost succedeed.
If Kas had not been there, we would never have had an eye and a hand of Vecna as artefacts lost somewhere in GH.
Hm . . . in established Forgotten Realms lore, I have to say Manshoon is one of my favorites, mainly because I don't think he has played half the cards that he has up his sleeve, and on top of all of that, when Fzoul went on a crusade to kill the guy off, in the end he ends up letting Manshoon play "special agent" for the Zhentarim. Long term I think that Fzoul made some big mistakes there.
Sammaster is a good one too. Without throwing in anything from the Year of Rogue Dragons books, he founded the Cult of the Dragon. Anyone that has run into a dracolich in Faerun has this guy to thank for their pain and suffering.
Kymil Nimesin definately has done a ton of damage as well. The guy is essentially just a politically connected gold elf warrior, and he managed to get King Zaor assasinated, and helped in the invasion of Evermeet, something that had not been done since the founding of the island nation.
~evil laughter~ Oh, the fun times to come! Lilith and Gavgoyle, consiter your BBEG stolen! ~smiles wickedly while rubbing my hands in glee~ Oh, I must start up a game soon!
~evil laughter~ Oh, the fun times to come! Lilith and Gavgoyle, consiter your BBEG stolen! ~smiles wickedly while rubbing my hands in glee~ Oh, I must start up a game soon!
No, it's mine to steal first! Mwhahahaha, I am starting a game soon!
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In my semi-homebrew setting (GH based) a split-personality archmage, that "purged" his good personality from his soul, gave it a body, and then killed him after some years of hiding.
Just to assume that identity as a cover to continue his nefarious studies.
He was the source of a very funny and long campaign based on mistaken identities, dark secrets from the PCs backgrounds (for example, both the sorcerer's tutor and his relatives were involved with the evil wizard's original studies), and cloned apprentices that saw the PCs on a not-so-merry chase in the eastern Flanaess.
Otherwise, I'll side with Lord Orbius Vhalantru.
Lilith and Gavgoyle, consiter your BBEG stolen!Share and enjoy!
Go for it!
I've read it several times : what's a BBG or BBEG (big bad guy ? big bad evil guy ?) ?
You've got it - BBEG = Big Bad Evil Guy. Or Gal. It's not specific. :-D
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I've read it several times : what's a BBG or BBEG (big bad guy ? big bad evil guy ?) ?You've got it - BBEG = Big Bad Evil Guy. Or Gal. It's not specific. :-D
As a matter of fact (and since it was the subject of this thread), I understood what it meant while I was writing BBG and BBEG.
Just wanted to be sure, though.Thanks
Has to be the Master of the Desert Nomads from X4/X5 fame! With good role playing he can be a real rat-bastard. :)
--Ray.
I've always wondered what would happen if Manshoon and Rary started having dinner parties like Elminster and Mordekainen? Throw an epic level Mordain the Fleshweaver from Eberron in, and I wonder what sort of nasty planar conspiracy concerning their three worlds they could come up with?
I've always wondered what people think about the villains of Dungeon? Is Dragotha the greatest dragon in Dungeon history or is it Flame? Is Thesselar the nastiest lich, or is it Vlakith, the lich-queen? Is Vhalantru a more devious BBEG than Lashonna? Could Aldimarchus beat Kyuss? Better yet, could Kyuss beat Erivatus (the only other god to get his statistics put in the mag)? Who is the best bad guy in Dungeon?
Anybody remember ol' Sakatha? Granddaddy of all templated creatures? Not only was he a lizard man, not only was he a lizard king. He was a vampiric lizard king. I2- what a hack'n'slasher's wildest dream. Strap on your door-kickin' boot, tuff guy. It's splattering time.
Heck Yeah! He was my favorite (Tomb of the Lizard King) from the mid to late 80s. I ran that adventure twice nad went through it once.
I revived Sakatha for my current campaign (a few years ago really) and even found a 3.0 version of the adventure. I'm bringing him back in my next session... 2 years (IRL and campaign time) since the last meeting my players have had with him.
Some of my other home-brew favorites:
Bruth "Zel'Bathor" - half elf lich rogue/wizard. Took him a few years to realize, "I'm a lich, I can live forever!" He's a little crazy.
Ryershil - monk/rogue/shadowmaster. Right hand man of Bruth and leader of an assassin guild named "Sanctuary" (sponsored by Bruth of course).
Master Carsten - Rakshasa and Disciple of Asmodeus. Master of a cult called "The Sect of Sixty" which promoted the non-existence of gods and doing good deeds for the sake of doing good. The cult would put the poor to work and give them skills. Food, shelter and clothing were offered as well as normal pay. Also offered by the cult were vices (the usual stuff). His MO was to move into a town and take over all the lower classes and control them - ultimately serving the whims of his master Asmodeus and destroying the ruling structure and replacing it with his own. He has been doing this for a century and finally got found out by the adventurers/heroes. He escaped and also will be coming back soon.
...Is Dragotha the greatest dragon in Dungeon history or is it Flame? ...
Flame. Its a close one, but Dragotha lairs in a hole in the ground, but Flame had the ultra-cool floating diamond keep over a lake of lava, garrisoned with Kamikaze Suicide Bomber Kobolds of Death! (and that Dungeon with Flame's return was one of the first I read as a kid, so that probably flavors my memory a bit)
I liked Sakatha as a BBEG too, but that was more for the way my character died and took him down at the same time. One of the best deaths I've had in any game, including CoC ;-)
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Anybody remember ol' Sakatha? Granddaddy of all templated creatures? Not only was he a lizard man, not only was he a lizard king. He was a vampiric lizard king. I2- what a hack'n'slasher's wildest dream. Strap on your door-kickin' boot, tuff guy. It's splattering time.
Ah, the undead super-lizard... I had actually forgotten about him; thanks for reminding me. Yeah, like the old Lizard King wasn't awful enough already, they had to make him a vampire as well. Didn't save him from us, though - he went down eventually, as did all his minions. Still, that "skewer with trident" special attack was one of the nastier things in... was that FF? I can actually remember the illustration, but this is sooooo long ago...
Juiblex may not be the baddest demon prince on the block but i think he gets some respect. What adventuring party doesn't cringe at the thought of dealing with slimes, puddings, jellies and oozes. All hail lord Juiblex and his army of Thralls and Ooze Masters.
You know the baddest dude on the block?
Meepo!
'Nuff said.
Lilith,
That "Lunch Conversation" is absolutely diaboloical. I'm going to try and use something similar with our AoW campaign.
I started the campaign with a little tussle between the party and some goblinoid merc's. The one that got away was a goblin rogue/ranger who ended up taking both ears of one of the pc's beloved. I wanted to bring "Little Worg" back to harass the party but the one pc whose beloved was disfigured has since left the campaign so I've had to change plans a bit.
Now I'm going to have him leave little pieces and clues at their campsites and bedrooms to keep them on their toes. I'm planning on an eventual face-off at the gladitorial arena where he is brandishing some trophies and surrounded by some of their fallen foes.
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My Choices..
From FR: Szass Tam, Halaster Blackcloak
From Ravenloft: Azalin (Strahd's got nothing on him)
From Dragonlance: Lord Soth
From Greyhawk: Acerak, Rary
From the Abyss: Demogorgon (they'd kick everyone's ass if they could just agree with each other), Orcus (he was an undead demon prince/god/thing before engineering his own resurection)
I did a homebrew world with a badguy I named Yg Ngar. He was a demon who had been imprisoned on a demiplane for all eternity. Before his capture, however, he created a book called the Ngaran Grimoire, which contain a ritual that allowed him to possess a chosen host. Sadly, I never got to use him.
Lilith,
That "Lunch Conversation" is absolutely diaboloical. I'm going to try and use something similar with our AoW campaign.
Thanks, Timault! I had my reasons for doing besides the "great scene" as well. The ambassador player hadn't been really playing his character up and was acquesing to the other players too much. I wanted to put him on the spot and see how he'd do with an antagonist that usually focused on one of the other players. All conversation, no combat, some Bluff, Sense Motive and Gather Information rolls.
It was a hell of a lot of fun, too. Fun is good. :-D
I like your idea for your AoW campaign. Seeing that little rat bastard would fire me up as a player. "Get the little *many R-rated euphemisms*!"
Aberzombie, I *totally* agree with Lord Soth as my fave in Dragonlance. But he's soooooo cool!!! Still want to paint him on my living room wall...
I've always wondered what would happen if Manshoon and Rary started having dinner parties like Elminster and Mordekainen? Throw an epic level Mordain the Fleshweaver from Eberron in, and I wonder what sort of nasty planar conspiracy concerning their three worlds they could come up with?
Well, if Manshoon, Rary, and "insert third villainous mage here" had a dinner party like Elminster's, Ed wouldn't likely loose near as much food and drink, since I can't imagine any evil mastermind worth his salt trusting any food from an outside source. They would have to have their own caterers.
Keyzer Soze.
THERE IS NO KAISER SOSE!!!
Erm, sorry, reflexive response.
My all time favorite uber bad guy, at least where D&D is concerned, is actually a gal, or rather a demoness.
She tends to be overlooked these days because of over-exposure, but my vote goes to Lolth. Q1 was the first module where you could actually fight a god, or at least an avatar of her, if you prefer. She and the drow became iconic for a reason.
My all time favorite uber bad guy, at least where D&D is concerned, is actually a gal, or rather a demoness.
She tends to be overlooked these days because of over-exposure, but my vote goes to Lolth. Q1 was the first module where you could actually fight a god, or at least an avatar of her, if you prefer. She and the drow became iconic for a reason.
Count me in.
My vote goes to the Spider Queen as well.
My favorite homebrewed BBEG I ran was the Artisan, who for almost two years real time made things difficult for my Eberron PCs in a Sharn-based detective game. This is a bit involved, so it may take some time for telling.
The Artisan was a yagnoloth (the minor nobility of the yugoloths, generally despised by their own but canny manipulators and combat machines) exiled from Mabar to Shavarath, the Plane of Battles. And from there he watched the Last War for 102 years. And, when it stopped, he wanted to start it again, just for the sake of the artistry of death spread across Khorvaire.
The Sharn Freelance Police (aka the PCs) only caught his schemes tangentially. They first encountered him deep in the goblin ruins beneath Sharn, chasing him down for cursing a warforged sergeant of Argonth with a burning hatred for all worshippers of the Blood of Vol. There he made grandiose claims of manipulating world events to restart the Last War, but the Freelance Police didn't believe him... until one of the towers fell, and the Order of the Emerald Claw was held under immediate suspicion. Breland began imposing sanctions on Karrnath in the hopes of forcing the Karrns to crack down on the Emerald Claw, and rumors of war were rampant.
So the Freelance Police went to Karrnath, hoping in their idealism to strike a crippling blow on the Emerald Claw before open hostilities ensued. They fled Karrnath after several of their members were slain in combat with Mr. Dory, a sinister merchant whose alchemical wares were being supplied to the Claw. The Artisan taunted them about how their actions would make the Emerald Claw more desperate and violent, but teleported away before anything could be done.
Back in Sharn, the Freelance Police put the Artisan out of their minds. All bluff, all show. After all, what had he done? Corrupted a single warforged. Funded a single supply line. The civil war erupting in Karrnath between the King and the Claw was unfortunate, but way out of their league, and caused by human stupidity. Besides which, the supply of undead warforged running to the Emerald Claw and the vampires that had infiltrated the watch were far more important, especially after it became apparent that dragonmarked heir (and a PC's father) Slogar d'Cannith was responsible for the creation of the undead warforged.
And then they found out that the Artisan's whispers were responsible for Slogar's projects. Worse, the fiend had even influenced Merrix d'Cannith enough for him to turn a blind eye to the project! Catching one of the Artisan's mortal conspirators, they traveled to the Frostfell, making use of the ethereal Crimson Ship for a fast transit. And there on the ice, they struck down the Artisan, ending his plots once and for all.
Except, of course, for the note they found on his dead body. It was too late. Thanks to the aid the Artisan had provided in the form of the deathforged and information, King Kaius' armies were routed, and the king was revealed as an impostor. The Emerald Claw won the war.
And Vol was now the Lich-Queen of Karrnath.
Of all the evil gods of Forgotten Realms, Loviatar is fast becoming a favorite of mine.
well. there's a lot of material here.
my faves: greyhawk: Acererak, iggwilv, and Wastri.
Forgotten Realms: None, really, but i did make an evil lich lord bad guy once called Kossar Fariq who did manage to create a hassle for a group i ran about 6 years ago.
Since i have never played eberron, i can't really say i've got a favorite there. Most of my bad guys have been in my home brew camapigns. And i've had several over the years. here's my list:
The aforementioned Kosar Fariq,
Hakut al Faquiri Zak, High Priest of the Cult of War, Priest King of the Lands of the Kundu Empire, Avatar of Voultarr, the god of war and slaughter.
Vlax a'Garyx, a Duthka'gith Cleric of Garyx the dragon lord, who is actually the second hand man of the next person on the list.
Korgax'goth the Arcane, A Mature Adult Red Dragon half fiend, with the bound soul of a balor in his heart. his lair is a floating island in the astral plane, one of the remnants of the red dragon caves on the city of tunarath after the destruction of said city during the githyanki wars and the death of the lich queen.
Kasivus Vaille, a rakshaza necromancer with the suel lich template who is actually in charge of a city in my campaign, and rules with a draconian iron fist. He is currently building an immense ziggurat under the city to open a conduit to the negative energy plane and create an undead army of whights, spectres, and level draining creatures.
Lord Baron Vengor Toth, Lord of the Knights of the Black Cross, a group of holy templars on a mission to destroy the wizards of the world. He sends high level knights out into the world to defeat and slay arcane casters, no matter the alignment. He also has several minions who watch out for casters in their towns, sleeper agents if you will. When these sleeper agents get wind of a wizard or sorcerer type in the town, they send for aid from the Knights.
The kabal of the black fist, run by Radmuk the Insane. He is a high level wizard who is trying to stop the knights. but he relies on terrorism and violence to take out knights preemtively. He has order entire villages destroyed because there was a knight or a group of knights in the area.
i could go on, but that's some of the main ones i have used.
#1-Vecna (all in all, superior to all ever created)
#2-Venger (t.v. cartoon)
#3-Eclavdra (in a way the best, because you can actually fight her.
#4-Scarlet Brotherhood/Suel Imperium (as organizations/entities)
#5-Iuz (neglected in my opinion)
As a GM, I have the luxury of having a player in my group who draws for comic books (a sample of his work is at www.cloudeagle.com) who has been kind enough to fully illustrate many of my home-brewed villains, and I in turn laminate them. When one of my illustrated villains kills a player character, I put a small sticker on the back of the laminated illustrated villain. Hence the players get to remember how many of their characters certain villains have 86'd. The most 'decorated' and beloved villain as stated by all of my characters is a 10th level Fighter based loosely after the character of the Green Knight in the movie 'Sword of the Valiant', starring Sean Connery. The players have dubbed him 'Sir Connery' and now refer to him as such in lieu of his original name. He's killed at least ten PC's to his credit.
So, just to humor myself, I'm adding Sir Connery to the list above of other vaunted villains of the established game.
Eclavdra would be my close second choice after Lolth.
Vlaakith is a current favorite. Seeing her on the front cover of Dungeon 100 is what hooked me. Her Palace of Whispers was one of the highlights of our recently-retired epic campaign. The Tunarath web enhancement and Dragon Incursion companion were also awesome. *two thumbs way up*
Another favorite from the homebrew is The Elder, a male half-fiend half-human evolved vampire sorcerer 16/blood magus 10/master vampire 3. He was the final end boss of that epic campaign. I used the necrotic cyst feat from Libris Mortis to buff him up. Some of those accompanying spells are hideously powerful. Coupled with Tenser's transformation, he was frightening. I had the PCs fight through legions of vampires and devils to get to his final sanctum, which was actually the Quicksilver Hourglass (with VERY convenient epic vampires already included) heavily modified .
I owe a lot to Paizo. Thanks again!
My favorite bad guy is Lucifer !!
I guess I gotta vote old school. Warduke for first and Eclavdra a very close second. Warduke just kicks butt and he aint Sauron and Eclavdra and her clones are like the energizer bunny. They just keep going and going...
As for the home game there were these two hafling rogue women in skintight black leather BDSM outfits with a feat tree set up for dealing Str Damage instead of sneak attack damage. They are the most menorable from my players.
Eclavdra is a pretty cool villain. First she makes a splash on the surface world, reminding everyone that the dark elves did not become extinct after all, but only once a group of player characters can fight their way through three giant armies to learn who is behind it all.
Then it turns out that she was the leader of a rebel faction among the drow who actually dared to split away from worship of Lolth! And it looks like she may have possibly been worshipping Tharizdun or the Elder Elemental Eye in her basement.
Then she shows up in Iuz's court as a priestess and ambassador for Iuz's father, Graz'zt, with human priests of Graz'zt and succubi at her side to protect her from Iuz's temperamental mood swings. And that was when Graz'zt was at his most powerful, temporarily conquering a big empire in the Abyss spanning many layers of that plane.
Her "good" clone gets involved with bringing about the end of the universe.
Then she shows up as a high priestess of Lolth right back in the capital of the drow.
She has more lives and schemes than the typical villain. And it seems that wherever she turns up, you can pretty much count on the fact that she is on the side that is currently on top.