I am curious if I am the only one who is dreading this new AP? I have LOVED the first two APs and it behooves me not to trust the guys who made those would make another excellent AP... but dinosaurs and South Pacific don't feel like D&D to me.
Ok... I could probably be pretty easily swayed into the whole pirate campaign or a south seas feel, but dinosaurs?!? Maybe it is just me but I didn't enjoy things like land of the lost or King Kong for the same reason. It ruins my suspension of disbelief.
I really hope I am proven very wrong and my fears unfounded, but at this point I don't have the excitement I did for the other two campaigns.
Sean Mahoney
Somehow my definition of what's D&D for me has been widening more and more over the last years (I guess it's a second effect of my exposure to Eberron stuff).
D&D for me used to be "Faerûn" and nothing else. I am happy that AP2 opened my mind to the wonders of Greyhawk and I trust the Dungeon team to make the next instalment interesting.
At first, when I started D&D (three years ago), I hated that Dinosaurs were in the Monster Manual. But, now, I don't know... Why not? I'll just wait and see how it turns out.
And in the worst case scenario, you'll still have 4 adventures set in the Abyss!
Bocklin
Dinosaurs seem to make their way into my campaigns more often than dragons do. So in other words, no, this doesn't fit outside my definition of D&D.
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I'm not trying to argue with anybody, or nothing, and I see and fully respect your viewpoint, but it feels like D&D to me. With tropical flavoring, if you will.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I guess it's not exactly the most 'Tolkienesque' of venues, but I hearken back to the Burroughs Pellucidar adventures, or Tarzan always finding dinosaurs in lost valleys next to his jungle, or a few of REHoward's Conan tales, the one with the pirate girlfriend and the lost city up the river comes to mind.
I also appreciate their timing--they're going with this AP soon after King Kong and Pirates ot Caribbean II come out.
And dinosaurs, in my mind, are the closest thing to an actual dragon that ever really existed.
I guess understand and respect your point, but I respectfully disagree.
Creative Director
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I also agree; setting the third Adventure Path in a non-temperate/non-European D&D location is a risk, which is why we decided to go with one of the most famous such locations in D&D history.
I have to admit... in a game that features giant spiders, magic, dragons, zombies, golems, and all sorts of other things, the notion that dinosaurs somehow ruin the suspension of disbelief is an alien concept. If it's the fact that they're called dinosaurs that bothers you, just rename them; the Eberron campaign setting provides alternate names for them in two different languages, for example.
One of the things we had to keep in mind with the Adventure Path is that we didn't want to duplicate too many themes in previous ones. In many ways, Age of Worms is the classic D&D campaign, and by going with the Isle of Dread for Savage Tide we avoid repetition.
Finally, the Isle of Dread is one of the oldest adventuring sites for D&D; it's also one of the most well-known. The original module sold in excess of a million (possibly more than 2 million) copies, so it's hardly untested waters to set a D&D campaign in a non Eurocentric location. D&D is not just about knights on horses or orcs; it needs to go to exotic locations to keep things from stagnating.
but dinosaurs and South Pacific don't feel like D&D to me.
Ever since I played the original Isle of Dread in 1982, dinosaurs and the tropics are firmly ensconsced in my D&D lore. Loved the original, loved the re-write recently in Dungeon and I'm very, very excited about the new AP.
I'm not trying to argue with anybody, or nothing, and I see and fully respect your viewpoint, but it feels like D&D to me. With tropical flavoring, if you will.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I guess it's not exactly the most 'Tolkienesque' of venues, but I hearken back to the Burroughs Pellucidar adventures, or Tarzan always finding dinosaurs in lost valleys next to his jungle, or a few of REHoward's Conan tales, the one with the pirate girlfriend and the lost city up the river comes to mind.
I also appreciate their timing--they're going with this AP soon after King Kong and Pirates ot Caribbean II come out.
And dinosaurs, in my mind, are the closest thing to an actual dragon that ever really existed.
I guess understand and respect your point, but I respectfully disagree.
I'm going to agree with Heathanson, and toss in a few other points:
1. Dinosaurs seem to be the sticking point for the OP. Understandable, since we all love Pirates ;-) But Dinosaurs have been in D&D longer than any of the campaign settings other than Greyhawk. I don't feel like digging out my pre-AD&D stuff out of the basement, but I distinctly remember there being Dinosaurs in the old AD&D Monster Manual.
So while you may not like them (and there are certainly monsters I don't like, and don't incorporate when DM'ing), there is a precedent (several decades of precedent actually) for them as "D&D monsters".
2. I'll add in the Lost World (Arthur Conan Doyle) & the original King Kong (and later sequels) as things that I consider inspiration for my campaigns, to go along with Heathanson's other examples. To me, Dinosaurs (and Lost cities, ancient empires, dire animals, exploration, tombs full of traps, Rolling Boulder Traps, etc) are a firm part of that "pulp adventurer" style that is just as evocative to me as the traditional Swords & Sorcery, LOTR style.
3. Even if you don't like the theme (and Dinosaurs/Pirates only seem to be the early theme of the AP, with the 4 planar adventures at the end), hopefully you'll still find some adventures you can use, or at least elements to steal and make your own.
Personally, and I know I'm in the minority here, I didn't like Shackled City as a whole. Oh, I liked certain elements and some of the adventures, but the whole AP just didn't do it for me. But then again, I love AoW.
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One of the things we had to keep in mind with the Adventure Path is that we didn't want to duplicate too many themes in previous ones. In many ways, Age of Worms is the classic D&D campaign, and by going with the Isle of Dread for Savage Tide we avoid repetition.
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The Isle of Dread and dinosaures are great! I am looking forward to AP3 but I am also getting a bit leery - the world ending because of yet another demon/god is the repetitive part. Is there no other way to anchor a career-spanning campaign?
Is there no other way to anchor a career-spanning campaign?
I can see your point, but I personally think ending extra-planar plots, killing gods and saving the world are the super bowl of so many D&D campaigns, so I don't have a problem with the repeated use of that end game plot.
It's kind of like the repeated use of the theft of nuclear weapons as the main driving plotline behind James Bond movies--yes, it's overdone, but for what else are you going to roll James Bond out for? Shredder malfunctions at the British embassy in Sri Lanka?
Plus, if I had a 20th level character I'd want to fight the ultimate bad guys.
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Is there no other way to anchor a career-spanning campaign?I can see your point, but I personally think ending extra-planar plots, killing gods and saving the world are the super bowl of so many D&D campaigns, so I don't have a problem with the repeated use of that end game plot.
It's kind of like the repeated use of the theft of nuclear weapons as the main driving plotline behind James Bond movies--yes, it's overdone, but for what else are you going to roll James Bond out for? Shredder malfunctions at the British embassy in Sri Lanka?
Plus, if I had a 20th level character I'd want to fight the ultimate bad guys.
Agreed. Saving the world is noble, alignment neutral, and plot friendly (why are the monsters continually getting tougher?). I guess my expectations were just set pretty high and the idea of a demon threat seemed to miss the mark. AoW did an incredible job at mixing up the individual adventures while maintaining a wormy theme. I have no doubt that The Savage Tide will win me over, dinosaurs and all (have you seen the the line up of contributors)!
DF--sorry if the tone of my previous post was a little sarcastic sounding. I meant no offense--you made a good point.
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Creative Director
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Coming up with the main plot for an Adventure Path is no doubt tough. There really aren't that many plots when you get down to it. While Age of Worms and Savage Tide do have a similar overarching plot, they'll be quite different in tone and feel, different enough that it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Dithering Fool, the involvment of Demogorgon and a slew of other cool fiends in this adventure is going to be quite different from AoW's world-ending theme. I would like to say a lot more, but for now, you'll just have to wait and see.
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DF--sorry if the tone of my previous post was a little sarcastic sounding. I meant no offense--you made a good point.
None taken but I apologize if I'm giving the wrong opinion - I want to impress the idea that the Isle of Dread and dinosaurs are not un-DnD (Check this out) and that I think they will add a very auspicious flavor. The demon angle, while I believe they will unquestionably pull it off, is not the appeal for me becuase it feels over used.
Coming up with the main plot for an Adventure Path is no doubt tough. There really aren't that many plots when you get down to it.
I bet! I've been trying to conceive archtypical plots since my first post and they all basically boil down to a few staples.
While Age of Worms and Savage Tide do have a similar overarching plot, they'll be quite different in tone and feel, different enough that it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Have no fear, I have the utmost faith in the various authors and the staff at Paizo. It'll be great!
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The Dec 2005 National Geographic has an article about prehistoric sea monsters in it. They have a story about "Lurking Dragon Hill" in China. Briefly, the locals would find small dragons there, whose spirits could travel between heaven and earth, bringing prayers for rain.
The little dragons were the fossils of Keichousaurus hui, a footlong (I guess a third of a meter) aquatic reptile that looked like "nessie" or a plesiosaur.
The whole mythology of dragons could owe its roots to fossilized dinosaurs.
But on the other hand, if I was watching ROTK and they had brachiosaurs instead of oliphants, I think it would've bugged me a little bit. So after a fashion, I do get what the Sean is saying.
Dinosaurs have been closely associated with Demogorgon from the beginning, I believe. And you can't get more classic D&D than Demogorgon. I do prefer my "mainstream" D&D dinosaur free (so I don't get too excited about halfling dinosaur riders in the core of the campaign world), but I don't mind having dinosaurs in remote locations on the campaign world, such as Isle of Dread.
As to the overplot, I don't mind this same plot for this third adventure path if done with a different twist, but it would be nice if the fourth adventure path (I hope there will be one) has a different overplot, such as finding some legendary item/heroe/sleeping king/prophet that will bring new hope into the world, instead of saving the world from destruction from a demon/god. I do agree that it is difficult to find a major overplot that is both archetypal and engaging for everyone, and yet adaptable to 12 career spanning adventures.
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Great!! Obviously my freshly edited posting was swallowed by the browser!! :(((
Another abbreviated attempt:
1. South pacific setting: yes, but only if there is a way linking it to established "medieval" settings like Greyhawk and (in my case) the Forgotten Realms. I would never purchase an adventure path linked to Eberron. I guess, I am just too traditional a D&D DM.
2. Proposals for increasing the usuefulness of adventure paths in general (purposefully expressed as questions without "perfect" answers):
a) Why do adventure paths have to reach from level 1 to 20? Why not developping shorter mini paths? (e.g. from level 1 to 10, accompanying PCs from their first steps until their firm establishment as "heroes of the area").
b) Have adventure paths have to be centred on a certain nemesis (leading to the inevitable save the world/ kill a god climax)? Which other contents could adventure paths consist of? (proposals: centering on the PC group, accompanying them during several [on first glance] independant adventures. In contrast to linking independant single adventures, these adventures would be connected,though: E.g. power group X from adventure 2 shows up again at level 6 and reminds the PCs of their debt they still ow e, certain adversaries show up again, but adventures aren't centered on fighting the ever same threat of that specific adventure path...).
c) Do adventure paths have to be linear? Ok. This strains the term "path", but why not main plot adventures, supplemented by side trecks specifically aimed at the scenario of the adventure path.
Btw. this would help to increase the usefulness of the paths for my group: my players rise slower than proposed in 3rd edition rules, and my group abhors high level play. You can imagine the usefulness of an adventure path that reaches further than my average player is willing to go... But even not considering my specific problems with adventure paths: I would look forward to some change regarding the structure of adventure paths. I am sure that adventure paths will loose their appeal soon if the main difference (before the usual save the world/ kill a god) is just the setting...
Just my two cents,
Günther
I think you could cut any AP down to whatever length you wanted. It would require some modification by the DM, but for SCAP, for example, the AP could have been easily cut down to just 1st-10th level by increasing the amount of clues gleaned from each adventure and then fighting the beholder as the final bad guy and having it all be over at that point.
Plus, playing a 3 adventure campaign arc is a mini-AP in itself. If you flesh those adventures out a little bit, there's no reason that 3 adventures can't take you from 1st-10th level. I know that most campaign arcs don't start at 1st level, but if you tack another Dungeon adventure on to the front or back of an existing campaign arc, sew the story lines together a little bit, you have a mini-AP right there.
Adjusting and modifying existing adventures for my own campaign is something I've always done and is something I find a lot of fun to do between gaming sessions. Having everything handed to me in a nice, pre-packaged path is actually kind of boring. My current GH campaign is nothing but a huge AP of Dungeon adventures strung together to fit my overriding campaign theme. Yes, I often use the plot devices given in the adventure, but I cut stuff out and add stuff in all the time. The formal adventure paths published are nice and sure make that job a lot easier, but even if they weren't formally strung together, I'd still find a way to create my own. Dungeon does 80% of the work for me, I'm still responsible for the other 20%, the way I see it.
I'm not criticizing those who want all the work done for them-that's your imperative, but limiting an AP for everyone just because you don't want to go past 10th level isn't the way to go, in my opinion.
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I'm not criticizing those who want all the work done for them-that's your imperative, but limiting an AP for everyone just because you don't want to go past 10th level isn't the way to go, in my opinion.
You do so, but don't mind. ;-)
I have a very limited amount of time for D&D. (Btw. that explains my infrequent visits to these message boards.) So I rely on a bit more than 80% preparation done for me. So far my campaign also consisted of single adventures strung together. What I missed there, was a main plot linking them. Adjusting them in order to solve this problem afforded more time - more time than I had recently. APs solve this problem pretty well - yet there is the problem of slowing progression without getting completely out of track with the main plot. And the problem of cutting an adventure path without having the feeling of omitting the most important part.I accept your opinion, but the solutions proposed by you, don't persuade me. Some of them were tried by me and have severe disadvantages. Others like stripping APs aren't what a full fledged AP is in my opinion supposed to be for.
Most important to me and not related in any way to high level play and slower level progression:
Why do adventure paths have to be strictly linear?
Do adventure paths always consist of one plot theme leading to the usual kill a god climax? Why not several intervened plots (I know that is more complicated and more difficult to "sell" as *one* adventure path)?
I like the idea of slowing level progression, and I've been looking into it somewhat. What mechanick do you use, and do you also slow the amount of magickal treasure garnered?
What do you like/dislike about it?
I guess my "mechanic" isn't that clever and might only fit to my special group: I started with a group of total D&D newbies, so I manually made them advance (as a full group), whenever I got the impression that they had enough of a grip on rules for being ready for playing more powerful PCs (some of my players have even more serious time issues, so meeting once a month for playing is all the D&D experience they have, besides they didn't pay that much attention to levelling up by then. Of course this changed in the mean time ;-) ).
Lately I settled for a different method: I halve the XP amount I would have to give them according to DMG. I go for a slightly less magic rich FR setting (-> my players' wish is my command), so we didn't have many issues about magic so far.
Whenever I got the impression that the group was overpowered (by possession of certain magic equipment), I evened the odds as soon as possible. Either by using opponents less susceptible to this equipment or (the harsher way) if necessary by taking that equipment out of play: magic equipment can be damaged/ destroyed by certain opponents, the number of charges of e.g. a staff can be limited etc.
The last alternative is a dangerous one, though. You wouldn't want your players to feel cheated out of their more powerful equipment.
Btw. adjusting adventures to the power level of my group (including magic stuff they can find) and finding a way to make them fit to whichever campaign plot I use, is what takes up most of my preparation time.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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LOL... Dungeon you always seem to be a month or three behind me!!!!
My FR campaign wants to explore the Dungeon of Ruins, and 2 months later you give me Prison of the Flamebringer! Now I run a seafaring campaign with lost islands and dinosaurs... and in comes the savage tide!
Great minds think alike.
I also agree; setting the third Adventure Path in a non-temperate/non-European D&D location is a risk, which is why we decided to go with one of the most famous such locations in D&D history.
Ah! You hit on the point I forgot to make. The Isle of Dread is a classic. People loved it. They have fond memories of it. And for those people, this will hold a LOT of draw... more than enough to overcome the non-tolkinesque feel (as another poster called it... probably quite accurately).
However, for those of us who were not priveledged enough to be part of the original D&D crowd or play those classic adventures (my DM back then had a horrible monotone reading voice so we all threatened to walk if he ran a pre-made adventure as they drove us insane due to how he ran them) we just don't get the draw from that.
In fact, now going back over some of those original adventures I am turned off by the lack of role-playing that written into them (sure you could make it up yourself, but they didn't give you much to work with, it was all you). So, for me, I don't find them inviting to go back and play again.
...the notion that dinosaurs somehow ruin the suspension of disbelief is an alien concept. If it's the fact that they're called dinosaurs that bothers you, just rename them...
A very fair point... on both counts. It is silly that real world creatures would break the suspension of disbelief... I can't argue that. And yet, there it is. I guess it is because I have studied them quite a bit and so it would be like bringing in too much biology or physics to say why the magic creatures wouldn't work... sometime bringing in too much reality ruins the flavor of a magic setting (at least for me).
Your point of renaming them is well taken though. I would probably also want to change their appearance, but the stats would work just fine (and it keeps balance that way). I would just need to take the salient points of the encounter (does it need to be big and hunt things... alright, I can do that). It is actually what I did in my SCAP game for the dinosaurs there as well (such as those behind the Lucky Monkey in the third episode).
One of the things we had to keep in mind with the Adventure Path is that we didn't want to duplicate too many themes in previous ones. In many ways, Age of Worms is the classic D&D campaign, and by going with the Isle of Dread for Savage Tide we avoid repetition.
An extremely good goal. I applaud it. However, wouldn't this actually make it 2 out of 3 APs that were based in Jungle environs? Even to the point of the starting location for this one having played a minor role in the first?
Before I come down too hard on that decision though (I personally prefer the temperate region and adapted the SCAP to the North in Forgotten Realms), it does allow for a bit of cross-over which adds a LOT to a campaign in my opinion... so I have to heartily applaud that portion of it.
Finally, the Isle of Dread is one of the oldest adventuring sites for D&D; it's also one of the most well-known. The original module sold in excess of a million (possibly more than 2 million) copies, so it's hardly untested waters to set a D&D campaign in a non Eurocentric location. D&D is not just about knights on horses or orcs; it needs to go to exotic locations to keep things from stagnating.
You're absolutely right. But as it stands this will be 2 APs set in a jungle environment, so it isn't necessarily a new feel on that hand. That being the case doing a temperate environment would be just as original as doing another jungle environment. Additionally you could have chosen plenty of other environments besides one you had already touched upon... arctic, desert, frozen north, orient, or even other planes of existence.
All that said, you guys have MORE than earned my trust. I am positive that this will be an excellent adventure path that I will be horrendously pleased with. Please don't think differently. I guess for me, it just means I won't be as excited about it ahead of time.
(and for the record the travel and sea-going part will give a different feel... could be pretty fun).
I would also like to thank everyone who has posted in this thread for taking this seriously and respectfully and not just writting me off as a nay-sayer (I was a little afraid of that and almost didn't post). You guys rock!
Sean Mahoney
Ok... I could probably be pretty easily swayed into the whole pirate campaign or a south seas feel, but dinosaurs?!?
My first character ever was eaten by a tyrannosaurus rex. After he tore my arm off. It twasn't pretty. I also ended my first campaign ever with a fight against a reptilian gargantua (2nd edition monster - think godzilla) atop a zenthyri (think a turtle the size of an island). So dinosaurs are a-okay in my book ('cept for that darn t-rex, of course!)
So dinosaurs are a-okay in my book ('cept for that darn t-rex, of course!)
This from the guy who wanted to play a Deinonychus Swarm if we ever got around to getting the World's Largest Dungeon. And die gruesomely at the end of every session...
Dinosaurs are fine in my book, too. Though I've got a bit of a prejudice against dinosaurs carrying halfling scouts with javelins. (Those things don't tickle!)
Since the start of the first Adventure Path, every time I have been at all uneasy about what Dungeon has been doing, and every time I have been even slightly negative, they have proven me wrong. At this stage, I'm going to trust them.
Dinosaurs, south pacific, pirates and the isle of Dread?
I like it ALOT! :)
Håvard
This AP will fit nicely into my Conan campaign :) I can't wait!
A tropical adventure path might finally provide enough good material to supply a lifetime of adventuring for some of the offbeat prestige classes that are altogether unappreciated in dungeons. I think such an AP, though diverging from the typical, will give us all a chance to develop skills and strategies we've never a chance to ply in a medieval European setting. Rangers might become a more attractive choice than fighters. Imagine that.
Such diversion might cause the game to come alive once again and allow for the wealth of rarely used options to flex their muscle, showing just how versatile D&D can be.
As for dinosaurs... I agree. Incorporating dinosaurs weirded me out as a 14 year old and things haven't changed much. It's like adding cowboy gunslingers to your cohorts list.
That said, I can still have fun with D&D and dinosaurs, even if it does feel gut level to be a wonky fusion.
Don't worry about me, folks. I'll just relax my expectations for archtypes and come along for the ride (atop an apatosaurus' howdah).
Considering one of the very first modules I purchased as a pimple-faced 11 year old was Isle of Dread, I am LOVING the idea of Savage Tides.
Come on folks! Didn't any of you ever run battles between your plastic toy knights (or cowboys and indians, or army-men) and your toy dinosaurs when you were about 8 or 10? Where's your imagination?
(Right, and the fortifications were built from legos or lincoln logs?)
Come on folks! Didn't any of you ever run battles between your plastic toy knights (or cowboys and indians, or army-men) and your toy dinosaurs when you were about 8 or 10? Where's your imagination?
(Right, and the fortifications were built from legos or lincoln logs?)
But the important question is... what side did the Transformers fight on? :-)
Peruhain, does leading an assault on Castle Greyskull by My Little Ponies count? The My Little Pony castle lowered its drawbridges and the forces charged forth to Greyskull! Skeletor had no chance! Mwah-hah-hah!
(Greyskull was also a featured site for many Transformer assaults, too. My brother graciously allowed me to control the Dinobots - Grimlock was my favorite. I released my inner kaiju...:-D )
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Come on folks! Didn't any of you ever run battles between your plastic toy knights (or cowboys and indians, or army-men) and your toy dinosaurs when you were about 8 or 10? Where's your imagination?
(Right, and the fortifications were built from legos or lincoln logs?)
They were built from Lego. I only had a very limited amount of metal knight miniatures, but my younger siblings had a ton of..... Smurfs! The Small Blue Ones were great all-purpose enemies. Die, Smurfs, die!!
Come on folks! Didn't any of you ever run battles between your plastic toy knights (or cowboys and indians, or army-men) and your toy dinosaurs when you were about 8 or 10? Where's your imagination?
(Right, and the fortifications were built from legos or lincoln logs?)
This is actually how we decide what each adventure path will be - we just take all the toys from Jacobs' cube down to the sandbox and let them fight, and whoever wins gets included in the next AP. (You'll notice that dinosaurs show up frequently - his Godzilla collection gives them an unfair advantage.) The AP2 meeting happened right after it rained, and when we got to the sandbox, there were earthworms everywhere....
-James S.
This is actually how we decide what each adventure path will be - we just take all the toys from Jacobs' cube down to the sandbox and let them fight, and whoever wins gets included in the next AP. (You'll notice that dinosaurs show up frequently - his Godzilla collection gives them an unfair advantage.) The AP2 meeting happened right after it rained, and when we got to the sandbox, there were earthworms everywhere....
-James S.
That explains so much! Rahhr! *lets out my inner kaiju - stomp stomp stomp*
Come on folks! Didn't any of you ever run battles between your plastic toy knights (or cowboys and indians, or army-men) and your toy dinosaurs when you were about 8 or 10? Where's your imagination?
(Right, and the fortifications were built from legos or lincoln logs?)
This is actually how we decide what each adventure path will be - we just take all the toys from Jacobs' cube down to the sandbox and let them fight, and whoever wins gets included in the next AP. (You'll notice that dinosaurs show up frequently - his Godzilla collection gives them an unfair advantage.) The AP2 meeting happened right after it rained, and when we got to the sandbox, there were earthworms everywhere....
-James S.
Right. So AP4 is going to be the one centered around giant transforming warforged*, who can join together into a mega-warforged?
Oh, and dinosaurs, we can always use more dinosaurs. And stormtroopers.
* You see, warforged have always been present in all settings, its just that they are living constructs in disguise.
Finally, the Isle of Dread is one of the oldest adventuring sites for D&D; it's also one of the most well-known. The original module sold in excess of a million (possibly more than 2 million) copies, so it's hardly untested waters to set a D&D campaign in a non Eurocentric location. D&D is not just about knights on horses or orcs; it needs to go to exotic locations to keep things from stagnating.
The Isle of Dread is my number one most loved 'old school' adventure module. I am absolutely stoked about the new AP and I hope people can climb out of their pigeon holes long enough to give it a try.
However, for those of us who were not priveledged enough to be part of the original D&D crowd or play those classic adventures (my DM back then had a horrible monotone reading voice so we all threatened to walk if he ran a pre-made adventure as they drove us insane due to how he ran them) we just don't get the draw from that.In fact, now going back over some of those original adventures I am turned off by the lack of role-playing that written into them (sure you could make it up yourself, but they didn't give you much to work with, it was all you). So, for me, I don't find them inviting to go back and play again.
That is a shame your previous DM didn't have the time/experience/whatever to really do up Isle of Dread properly. It is true that those old modules had very little to none RP elements in them. Back then you were expected to do that yourself and make up the personalities, background and motivations of the NPCs yourself. I was a lot of work and I for one am glad new adventures give a lot of help in those areas. I still think Isle of Dread was one of best untapped gold mines of adventure and intrigue and feel, if you can let go of the past bad experiences and rename the dinos, this could be the best AP yet.
I would also like to thank everyone who has posted in this thread for taking this seriously and respectfully and not just writting me off as a nay-sayer (I was a little afraid of that and almost didn't post). You guys rock!
Hey you wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't care. I think that goes a long way for most people (and you didn't start off with "Savge Tidez SUXX0RZ!!1!1) ;-)
I am curious if I am the only one who is dreading this new AP? I have LOVED the first two APs and it behooves me not to trust the guys who made those would make another excellent AP... but dinosaurs and South Pacific don't feel like D&D to me.
I empathize with Sean and am in total agreement in that I don't think my interest will be as great in this AP as the last two due to the dinosaur and pirate tone. That said, you can't please everyone all the time, and in this case its people like us that aren't getting exactly what we want. I'm playing rather than DMing this time, so there is upside.
That said, I'm sure it will be a great product and likewise I will stick with it. Keep up the great work you scally-wags!
Isle of Dread was the second published adventure I ever played, so, yeah...dinosaurs, pirates, south seas....it's all D&D all the time.
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Guess I'm similar, long ocean voyages to islands with jungles and dinosaurs are D&D for those that have been playing a while :) I went from B2 Keep on the Borderlands to X1 Isle of Dread, I also had another party go from B2 The Lost City to X4 The Master of the Desert Nomads and X5 Temple of Death (followed by X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield). X6 Quagmire was similar, lost ruins in mangrove swamp. X8 Drums on Fire Mountain was another volcanic jungle island. Volcanic islands or deserts seemed to be a common theme for the X series :)
As an aside I recall I have lost my X8, any reason why it is not available as a PDF.