I've got a sorcerer thats looking for a feat. I have a heavy dependance on illusion spells and I want a way to mask my spells from enemy casters. It's not going to be very effective if they know I'm casting an illusion before the image even manifests. I have a high bluff skill and I assume I could make a skill roll in conjunction with the feat but I don't know how it should work. Any ideas?
I've got a sorcerer thats looking for a feat. I have a heavy dependance on illusion spells and I want a way to mask my spells from enemy casters. It's not going to be very effective if they know I'm casting an illusion before the image even manifests. I have a high bluff skill and I assume I could make a skill roll in conjunction with the feat but I don't know how it should work. Any ideas?
I don't know if you can use the bluff skill to make it harder to mask your spells from enemy casters or those with high spellcraft skills, but I would think probably not. IMHO, if you are trained in the Art of casting a fireball spell, then you make gestures and mutter arcane phrases to make the magic manifest, and it's the same gesters and phrases and bat guano that everyone else has to use.
There are a lot of metamagic feats that I would allow to increase the DC of the opposing spellcraft check, even if the description doesn't specifically say so. Spell Thematics, still spell, eschew materials, and primitave caster all come to mind.
That might not be what you're looking for specifically, but I know that if a mage is speaking and gesturing with bat poop that I might need to move away from the cluster and maybe shout out a warning. If I just see the guy without armor speaking - well, that's what a targeted dispel magic is for.
Of course, you can always cast an illusion while invisible. Even the ones that amke the enemy seem to be falling into a pit aren't real so how is that an 'attack' that wold turn you visible? :)
Just a thought...
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I've got a sorcerer thats looking for a feat. I have a heavy dependance on illusion spells and I want a way to mask my spells from enemy casters. Any ideas?
I am not sure if the Bluff skill will work. I vaguely remember some rules on how to hide the fact that you were casting a spell, but I can't remember how it went (and if my memory is right, the rule wasn't very good -- maybe 2nd edition?).
You might want to invest/look into some metamagic feats -- specifically spells like silent spell and/or sudden silent spell from Complete Arcane as well as still spell and/or sudden still spell.
How would the spellcraft check on a Stilled, Silenced spell work? Can you combine those? I don't have my PHB right now.
Sexi, you may just have to bite the bullet here. Illusions are very powerful when used as tacical distractions, since by the time someone has interacted with them to get a save, the illusions has typically done it's job of diverting their attention. However, nothing works in all scenarios, so if you're up against a foe with Spellcraft, there's a good chance the illusion just wouldn't work. Sorry.
I do remember a WotC web enchancement that had a rogue (or something like that) using magic items and Bluff checks to make it look like he was really casting the spells; it was for Complete Arcane, the guy was trying to sneak in as a student to a wargmage acadamy, or something. But, that's not the same thing, I know.
Here's another question- if you cast Phantasmal Killer at a mage who makes the Spellcraft check, does he get a bonus on his save? If not, should he?
Here's another question- if you cast Phantasmal Killer at a mage who makes the Spellcraft check, does he get a bonus on his save? If not, should he?
I'm thinking that the answer to "does he" is no. Whether he should... I could see maybe a +2 on the will save to disbelieve. It would make sense that he would have an easier time disbelieving something if he's aware that the other mage is going around making illusions. Even if he knows it's an illusion, though, if a raging barbarian clad in cackling codpiece comes charging at him, it's going to be pretty tough to ignore it.
maybe you could use sleight of hand versus a spot check to determine if the opposing spellcaster recognises that you are casting fireball...
There is the Disguise Spell feat but it requires bardic music and 9 ranks of Perform as prerequisites.
Make sure your enemy has no reason to watch you. Blend into your surroundings. Make sure you aren't in a robe with an owl on your shoulder. Have a sword strapped to your side (even if you can't use it). The Illusionist is a master of deception with and without spells. Control the enemy's expectations, for those are the parameters you will have to operate in.
We were just talking about something like this in my gaming group. We were only joking around, but it might work for you. The idea was to take a mage who had the eschew material components feat, still spell, or something similar. When he casts his spell, he pulls out components and makes gestures that have nothing to do with the spell he casts. “Oh, don’t worry it’s just a detect any object spell”....WHOMPH. Lol, lots of fun. This should work the other way around, cast illusion spells, but use components/gestures for fireball, scorching ray, meteors, whatever. Hope this helps.
Sexi Golem 01,
I agree with what Ichabod Drule said about controlling your enemy’s expectations. Whenever I have played Illusionists, I made sure to mix up some regular spells in with the illusions. By starting off with actual summoned monsters for example, the enemy should have no reason to suspect that the next batch of summoned monsters isn’t real or that the fireball blazing towards them can’t cook them alive.
Also, try and get hold of scrolls, wands, or other items that create actual effects. Anything that gives you the tools to enhance the image that you are any other arcane spell caster besides an Illusionist gives you an advantage. After all, there shouldn’t always be an immediate save if the target has no reason to suspect that what he or she is interacting with isn’t real.
As for masking the actual casting of a spell, the already mentioned metamagic feats can help. Also, I liked ignimbrite78’s suggestion of using sleight of hand vs. a spot check. See if your GM would allow it.
Good luck with whatever route you go and good gaming.
Mark
From the SRD
Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear the spell’s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry.
By my reading if there are no verbal or somatic components then its not possible to see or hear them. Hence Still Spell and Silent Spell should accomplish what your looking for. Throw in Eschew Materials and get rid of the pointy hat and you can pretend your not a wizard or sorcerer at all. Get a shovel and claim to be a high level commoner.
Spell Thematics. From Magic of Faerun. Make your stuff harder to identify and you can change it to something interesting, like make a fireball look like a screaming skull. Or a teddy bear. Teddy bears that do 10d6 damage.
Spell Thematics. From Magic of Faerun. Make your stuff harder to identify and you can change it to something interesting, like make a fireball look like a screaming skull. Or a teddy bear. Teddy bears that do 10d6 damage.
Such a wasted feat, IMHO...Cool nonetheless.
"I want a large, flaming teddy bear of DOOOOOOOOOM! Or a kitty. A kitty would work too. Hello Kitty would be better."
Spell Thematics. From Magic of Faerun. Make your stuff harder to identify and you can change it to something interesting, like make a fireball look like a screaming skull. Or a teddy bear. Teddy bears that do 10d6 damage.Such a wasted feat, IMHO...Cool nonetheless.
"I want a large, flaming teddy bear of DOOOOOOOOOM! Or a kitty. A kitty would work too. Hello Kitty would be better."
That kills me :-)
I also want to say that while Spell Thematics from Magic of Faerun looks like it would be cool, it does seem to be a waste of a feat. I much rather like the article from one of the old Dragon Annuals that I believe was entitled The Color of Magic. Basically, it allowed customization of each wizard’s FX when it came to their spells. Want to be an ice mage? Simply have your spells all have cold and ice special effects. So magic missiles are shards of ice, the web spell forms chains of ice, fire balls are a single ice shard that explodes into a wave of blistering snow and ice, etc.
The idea of the article was that by giving the spells individual special effects based on their users; it restored some of the wonder to spells. It also gave suggestions that you could play around with how the spells worked in regards to their spell effects. In effect, by using FX you greatly increased the variety and hence number of spells available in your world. The only complication came when deciding how certain special effects interacted. Spell Thematics gets around this by saying that the spell only change is in its visible component and that’s another reason I think it comes off seeming weak as a feat choice.
Finally, if you are interested in changing spell special effects and other aspects on customizing facets of one’s campaign, I recommend checking out the Behind the Screen articles by Jason Nelson-Brown in the Dungeon and Dragons home page archives. He did a series of articles that dealt with creating customized facets for a campaign story arc that has some good ideas.
Good Gaming,
Mark
Something I've also done in lieu of the Spell Thematics feat is to have the caster in question make a Spellcraft check, DC equal to about 5 + the spell level. Nothing fancy, as it's changing a visual component of said spell. Plus any modifiers, of course. Can't make it too easy. ;-)
Something I've also done in lieu of the Spell Thematics feat is to have the caster in question make a Spellcraft check, DC equal to about 5 + the spell level. Nothing fancy, as it's changing a visual component of said spell. Plus any modifiers, of course. Can't make it too easy. ;-)
Lilith,
I would recommend that you just allow the visual change to be an automatic effect if the caster so chooses once his or her ranks (or the effective skill) in Spellcraft becomes 5, 10, 15 or 20 per your preference. My reasoning is that per the rules concerning Spell Thematics, all that is being changed is that spell’s visual component. If spell caster is mastering Spellcraft, it stands to reason that they could intuitively change their spells visual signature without too much difficulty. From there you just incorporate the rules as outlined under the Spell Thematics feat description. This eliminates an extra skill roll that ultimately adds very little since failing to change the visual FX has negligible impact on the spell’s ultimate effect.
Anyway, just some thoughts that may be useful.
Good Gaming,
Mark
Lilith,I would recommend that you just allow the visual change to be an automatic effect if the caster so chooses once his or her ranks (or the effective skill) in Spellcraft becomes 5, 10, 15 or 20 per your preference. My reasoning is that per the rules concerning Spell Thematics, all that is being changed is that spell’s visual component. If spell caster is mastering Spellcraft, it stands to reason that they could intuitively change their spells visual signature without too much difficulty. From there you just incorporate the rules as outlined under the Spell Thematics feat description. This eliminates an extra skill roll that ultimately adds very little since failing to change the visual FX has negligible impact on the spell’s ultimate effect.
Anyway, just some thoughts that may be useful.
Good Gaming,
Mark
*scratches her other half's beard, since I don't have one*
That's a good idea...I'll have to see what my party's spellcaster thinks about it. I like it...