How one of my players saved the campaign (possible spoilers)...


Age of Worms Adventure Path


Hello, everyone! I'm currently running the Age of Worms adventure path (although a bit slow- we're only a little ways into the Hall of Harsh Reflections at the moment), and one problem had sort of been looming over my head since the beginning of the campaign... that problem being the number of players.

In our group of friends, there's really only four of us that are reliable players- myself, and three others. Knowing that this campaign would be bound to be deadly, I started off the campaign with only three characters. In return, I beefed up the characters a bit (they've all got relatively good stats, and I've been giving them an ability score increase every level, although the treasure in the AoW has been a bit lacking), in hopes that once we got to the bad parts they'd be able to handle it.

So far, we've gotten to the Hall of Harsh Reflections- and, frankly, after the first two encounters nearly killed them all (and would have if I hadn't done quite a bit of fudging at the last moment), it got me worried. If two Doppleganger guards results in a TPK, how are they gonna fare against Zyrxog? Or the Ulgurstasta? Or Dragotha?! The fact that there's one less target in battle, one less pool of HP for the enemies to draw from, one less body in the way is really becoming an issue (not to mention the fact that there's no arcane spellcaster, or anyone who can effectively find and disarm traps), and I fear it'll only get worse as the adventures go on. True, I could easily fudge more and more to keep them alive enough to see the end of the Adventure Path, but how fulfilling would that be for the party? Or, worse yet, for me? After all, I'm the one going through all of the work to put on this show for them, and if I'm getting even less gratification from it because I have to lead them through it all due to the lack of players, what could I do?

I talked this over with the players. The thing that made it seem most urgent to me is the Champion's Belt being the next adventure- in that adventure, the players are put up against groups of characters at least their level, but with four or five members. How in the world would they survive against more foes of equal or greater strength? Upon my last reading of that adventure, I considered giving them another party member, just for that adventure, to be a member of their warband- and then, if the players wanted, that person would stay with them. Well, the way the campaign has been set up, and the way the characters are, the players really didn't feel like they would want someone to be assigned to them like that. So far, I've been playing up a sort of "chosen by fate" role of the players, and so anyone else joining them wouldn't be set along the same path. Not only that, but the characters wouldn't feel like anyone was really their friend or "part of the group" except under certain circumstances. So, it seemed, I was stuck. I envisioned the campaign ending (or at least being very unfulfilling for all involved) because of a lack of players.

Then, one of the players gave me an idea.

What if some incredibly powerful being (he suggested a Red Dragon) found out about their cause, and, taking the guise of a human, helped them out, insisting that he accompany them on their travels? He could definitely have other motives for doing so (as beings like dragons are often quite powerful and knowledgable), and those motives wouldn't necessarily be bad (after all, are ALL red dragons evil? of course not!). He could simply show up, get them out of a tight spot, and without really answering any questions, insist that he be a member of their group. He could take the fourth party slot, filling in whatever role they needed, and as long as he stayed out of the spotlight, nobody would really think anything of it. And, they all agreed, if this were the kind of mysterious set up, the players would all be okay with him joining them.

So, in my opinion, it was an amazing idea. Not only did it fix the party survivability issue, but until I introduce him/her, I would have a Dues Ex Machina at my disposal! If, at any point in the coming adventure (Hall of Harsh Reflections), they were getting pwned by a group of baddies, BAM! Somebody shows up for a split second, turning the tide of battle, then vanishing back into the shadows. It's a heck of a lot more interesting than simply docking half the bad guy's HP, and it would definitely make me feel better. So I began to think of who this NPC could be.

You see, being the person I am, I couldn't take his ide word for word. Specifically, I couldn't make it a dragon. I insist on the players never knowing exactly what they're up against- so if they suggested a dragon joining them, ther's no way I could let a dragon join them. Then, I got thinking.... what other high-level monsters could somehow take human form an join them?

Here's what I came up with.

Years ago, a Lawful Neutral Pit Fiend by the name of Lydzin learned of an ancient prophecy involving three warriors stopping the Age of Worms. However, through careful reading of the signs, she found out that this prophecy was not guaranteed- it was one of many possible outcomes, any as likely as the next. Not being one to like the death of herself and all other living creatures, Lydzin took a risk- she decided to meddle in the affairs of mortals and ensure that they fulfill their destiny, and keep the end of the world from claiming everyone. But she couldn't simply show up and fight the hordes of undead that would soon be coming. If a powerful outsider like herself was seen meddling with a prophecy, everyone with any concern for the continuity of the multiverse would do whatever was in their power to stop her. If she were to do this, she would have to do it without a soul's knowledge. So, on a night when a group of adventurers were seiging the iron fortress in which she lived on the plane of Acheron, she faked her own death. Using her innate ability to Wish once a year, she made a powerful, yet risky Wish- she wished to take on a lesser form, one acceptable on the Material Plane, in order to blend in and be able to usher these prophets on their path. As her home was destroyed, the pit fiend known as Lydzin was no more- the tiefling, Nyzdil, lived on. Using the remnants of her power, she hitched a ride to the Material Plane, and searched out her charges to protect them.

Nyzdil, in my campaign, is going to be a Rogue/Sorcerer, in order to take up the roles needed by the group. In any other campaign, she could be a fighter, a cleric (with some evil leanings), or anything else you need her to be. I just thought I'd put this up so that if anyone else was facing a problem like this, they might have something to go off of. I picture her as showing up while the PCs are in the Sodden Hold (invisible most of the way, watching and following them), helping them out if need be. By the end of the adventure, she's going to show herself to them, telling them that she knows much more than they should know, and that it is imperitive that they simply allow her to come along. She's there to give them the glory, not the other way along. She sticks to the shadows for the most part, and at any really important events (such as meeting Manzorian, or Zeech's dinner party) she simply doesn't show up. The more attention she gets, the higher her chances of being found out. I planned on her spell selection and appearance to somewhat give a bit of a hint at her nature- she'll have Fire Shield, for example, and her features may at times grow slightly more reddish and scaly (which will hopefully trick the PCs into thinking she's really a Red Dragon). In the end, she may even take on her true form in the battle with Kyuss, although depending on how things go, Kyuss will almost definitely know who she is, and may even banish her to her home plane before the battle begins. We'll see.

So, that's how one of my players saved the campaign!

Dark Archive

I like how you've carefully developed Nyzdil to fit in with the overarching plot of the campaign and with the other party members.

However... I'd tread very, very carefully, ESPECIALLY since it seems you'd be the one choosing her actions. In my gaming experiences, there are few things as distasteful in both the short and long term than being in a group with a character that is clearly more powerful and dynamic than the others. I have horrible memories of some of the Marvel Superheroes RPG sessions of my youth, where a friend would often have incredibly buff heroes of his design wing in while we were struggling against the baddies he'd set against us, and those characters consistently stole our thunder.

The issue of smaller groups than those assumed by adventures (and, really, most game systems) does call for some sort of allowances. "DM self-insertion" characters are rarely the best answer, in my opinion.

I'm currently DMing a three-person party in "Age of Worms". I strongly suggested to them that at least one of them have summoning abilities or a hardy tag-along, such as an animal companion or paladin mount. One of them took the chance to try a Druid, filling both suggestions at once, and it's going well.

More than that, though, we've found the Gestalt Characters option to be an elegant, easy way to give the PCs of smaller parties a bit more punch and a lot more versatility. Especially if your players enjoy multiclassing, it's worth a look:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm


Golbez57 wrote:
However... I'd tread very, very carefully, ESPECIALLY since it seems you'd be the one choosing her actions. In my gaming experiences, there are few things as distasteful in both the short and long term than being in a group with a character that is clearly more powerful and dynamic than the others. I have horrible memories of some of the Marvel Superheroes RPG sessions of my youth, where a friend would often have incredibly buff heroes of his design wing in while we were struggling against the baddies he'd set against us, and those characters consistently stole our thunder.

I know, and this is definitely the thing I'm afraid of the most. Hopefully, with her motivation being that she wants to help the PCs along their destiny, and not really make herself known, they'll understand when I often have her do little or nothing at all (though I'm going to try and focus her around buffs if at all possible, to make the PCs do more of the actual footwork). I'd like for her to seem all big and bad and powerful at first, and then quickly fade into the background, possibly even ending up behind them in levels at one point.

As for Gestalt, that really wouldn't work for us- #1, we're already into the campaign and the characters are made, and #2, the main problem is the number of bodies, not the number of options. (Option-wise, they're not so far behind- after all, they'd get the same number of actions either way.) I do appreciate the suggestion, though, and it's one we considered at the beginning of the campaign. It's just not really our thing right now.

Dark Archive

Our AoW group has 5 pc's, but we usually only have 2-4 bodies a session. It has been fun for the players to run a couple characters at once, and it's great to watch the personalities of these characters be developed by the whole group. It seems like there are horror stories all over these boards about having a DM-run NPC that pops up now and then to save the day, so I haven't even tried that approach yet.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I've done this before but I would not recommend it.

Putting Fizban in the party to save everyone's bacon gets a little old - pretty fast. This is especially so as your own players now suspect (if not outright *know*) that this will be the case.

My advice? *Don't do it*. Foist the burden of survival squarely where it belongs: solely upon the shoulders of your players. (Who, it appears, have made some sub-optimal choices in character generation.)

In the alternative, reduce the CR of their foes. That's the best way to equal something that is uneven - not by fudging or by giving extraordinary resources to the PCs but by simply reducing the resources of the foes a tad till things are more in balance.

By doing so, they will live or die by their own decisions. In the medium to long term, your campaign will be *much* the better for it.


If one of your characters takes the Leadership feat, things will balance out without having to toss in some uber-powerful NPC to steal the heroes' thunder. Even if their cohort is two levels beneath the characters, it's still another set of hit points, skills, etc. to draw from, especially if the PCs actually care enough to treat their cohort as a person rather than a walking meat-shield. And they would be good to have for magic items no one else can use or wants. No one in the party wants that +1 returning trident? I'm sure their intern would appreciate a nice magical weapon. Something to consider, at least.


The Uber-powerful patron thing can really throw things out of wack, and let's face it, diminish Tenser/Manzorian's role. I suggest going the opposite route. Give the group a cannon-fodder NPC. Having 4 targets instead of 3 will increase everyone's survivability. I've gotten plenty of mileage out of torch-bearers and squires and other meat-shields over the years.


I'm not putting in an "uber-powerful patron" at all. At first, I plan on the NPC being slightly more powerful than the PCs, but only at first. If anything, she'll be just as powerful as them, not more so. Her entire purpose is to be another body to take hits, and someone to provide some arcane support. The PCs will still be the main members of the group.


There was a lizardperson druid in one of the modules.
You could recruit one of the miners, maybe even a dwarf,
from Diamond Lake.
You could have the Elves from Champion's belt join them.
Two half parties forming one full one.


James Keegan wrote:
If one of your characters takes the Leadership feat, things will balance out without having to toss in some uber-powerful NPC to steal the heroes' thunder. Even if their cohort is two levels beneath the characters, it's still another set of hit points, skills, etc. to draw from, especially if the PCs actually care enough to treat their cohort as a person rather than a walking meat-shield. And they would be good to have for magic items no one else can use or wants. No one in the party wants that +1 returning trident? I'm sure their intern would appreciate a nice magical weapon. Something to consider, at least.

I'd second this suggestion.

It solves the problem without you having to stat out and run another NPC.

And it makes good sense from an in-character viewpoint as well. If you are at the Champion's Belt, your PCs are getting to be powerful and famout... and if the fighter is tired of getting blasted and poisoned b/c there isn't a rogue to check for traps, or the casters are tired of being smacked around due to a lack of meatshield... then it makes sense for them to recruit to balance out their weaknesses.

I'd actually reccomend having two, or even all three, of the PC take the leadership feat. Since the cohort is at least 2 levels behind the leader, then having two of them helps to make up the slack due to being weaker. And if you go with three cohorts, than everyone gets one. If every PC takes a cohort to counter their own weakness, than the party should be balanced out again.


Honestly, I've never had much faith in animal companions, summoned cannon fodder or even cohorts...they just can't pack the same punch that a PC can. If you and your players are happy with their tiefling/pit fiend 'cohort', that's great. You certainly have made a great storyline and practical reason for her existance, one not likely to steal the PC's thunder. That said, I'd like to put my 2 gp in the pot. My current gaming group started with only 3 players and one DM; we're not playing AoW but our DM likes to throw nasty things our way which is why she gave us the option of each running 2 PCs. I and one other chose to do so, much to our pleasure and survivability. I love this situation because, like many players I'm sure, I am always thinking up character ideas and this gives me the opportunity to double my character RP and advancement options. As AoW is a tough AP, I'm sure that having 6 PCs would only increase the fun all around!

TS


Keep in mind that you don't have to run the adventures exactly as printed. Just as you would add more enemies or increase the power of individual foes if you had a party of 5 or 6 players, you should subtract enemies or decrease the power of individual foes for a party of 3 players.

I also second the suggestion about Leadership and the like. As a GM, though, I hate the dozens of followers you get from it; I suggest instead that you limit it to granting a cohort and have the cohort be +1 level higher than the feat would otherwise grant.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I don't think my players would be happy with this solution after a single session or two. If the DM runs all the monsters AND the guy that does all the saving, whats the point of the players? They basically are just spectators in the DM's world.

There are better options that keep the players at the wheel of the game. reducing numbers works ok, but reducing levels and stats are a pain. I just prefer using lower CR monsters. A troll is replaced with a bugbear, a bugbear with a hobgoblin, etc. The CR system is designed to assist with that. In the Age of Worms most humanoid monsters have levels in something. Just remove those levels and use the base versions from the appropriate manual and you should do fine.

As for not having an Arcane caster or rogue, thats partly the players fault. Having neither greatly increases the difficulties of things no matter how big the party is.


I'd be inclined just to run a DMPC wizard and have him consult with the PCs on spell preps, so that his preparation for adventures is based on the results of their investigations/divinations of the upcoming challenges, and not on DM's knowledge that a certain spell will be just the thing to solve a certain challenge.

Otherwise, there's just too much deus ex machina. One rescue out of the blue per campaign is OK, but if it becomes a regular habit, people get annoyed (in fiction and in D&D). An ordinary DMPC is at least part of the party, is about the same level as the other party members, and the PCs can engage in teamwork with him/her.

The cohort solution is not a bad one, either.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I'm ok with the idea of Nyzdil, but I wouldn't have her stay withthe party all the way through. My personal suggestion is have her change back for the battle with Dragotha, then make the PCs face Kyuss on their own, so that the final, supreme triumph is theirs and theirs alone.


Kvantum wrote:
I'm ok with the idea of Nyzdil, but I wouldn't have her stay withthe party all the way through. My personal suggestion is have her change back for the battle with Dragotha, then make the PCs face Kyuss on their own, so that the final, supreme triumph is theirs and theirs alone.

That's pretty much what I was planning on doing.


Have an NPC of the needed class fall in love with one of the characters and refuse to be left behind. Effectively you're just coming up with an excuse to run an NPC with them, but it might be fun role-playing, too.

Or just scale down the ECLs.

The Exchange

My party had nearly the same experience as yours. It is a group of three (fighter/barbarian, cleric, and rogue/shadow dancer). From the get-go I thought they would have trouble becuse of the lack of tactical flexibility that a no-wizard party would be saddled with, so I stressed to the rogue character the need to focus on UMD. I also put in a couple of extra magic items to complement that stress.

3FOE really opened my eyes to the fact that this would still not be enough, so I altered the party dynamic in two ways already suggested above.

First, I offered Marzena to join their party to beef up their arcane power. At first I thought I would run her as an NPC, but one of the players really wanted a second PC, so I relented. In retro, I would keep her as an NPC because of the flexibility that gives to the DM for fudging plot inconsistencies and getting the PCs past clues they just can't seem to grasp.

Second, the cleric took leadership and they now have a monk cohort traveling with them as well. The addition of the extra body has definitely helped. I no longer have to tone down EVERY encounter, which is a relief. Of course, now the PC with the cohort is jealous of the 'extra' experience that Marzena gets over what the cohort gets. I'm thinking of throwing out the XP rules for cohorts and crafting some rule that lets the cohort progress at a more reasonable rate.

The other thing you could do is throw in a couple side quests to get your three PC party above the suggested level of the adventure.

Good luck! I'm starting to realize that there's lots of us running small parties through AOW.


It's nice when the players come through for you. When I ran Touch of the Abyss - spoilers ahead - I was worrying about letting the PCs find the diary he'd left, since the exposition seemed a little too convenient and I wasn't able to get the printout for the players. Luckily, the cleric spontaneously asked, "Oh hey, how does speak with dead work?" and managed to get the information that way. It turned what would have been a free handout into a satisfying challenge because they had to decide which five questions to ask.


im running AoW with just 2 players, each having 2 characters and a DM character to fill out the numbers. my group is normally this small but i do find that a DM character sometimes gets annoyin for the players as they wait for me to resolve combats between the DMPC and encounters. at least this time i didnt make the mistake of using a rogue as a DMPC( try searching for traps u know are there????) i would be careful that the NPC doesnt steal the players thunder and think it would be better to have the players run 2 characters. maybe these characters could have a late awakening and join the group or be captives of one of the bad guys that found the fated and decided to take them out of the picture before they could do any damage, of course the current PCs would rescue them before this.just my 2 GP worth.

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