I'm starting a new AoW game and I have a dilema. I only have four players, and none wants to play a cleric or a rogue. I have a fighter, a wizard, a monk and favored soul.
I have only read the first 3 modules, and have read alot of opinions about the rest on these boards, and I'm concerned about the party survival.
I HATE to tell people what to play, and the players are pretty set on their characters. So I would like to get the opinions of DM's that have run most of the campaign.
I'm considering going with Gestalt characters. What I want to know: is this gonna throw the power curve too far in favor of the charcters if I try to run the modules as written?
Creative Director
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Parts of the Age of Worms campaign is a LOT tougher if you don't have someone who can turn undead. A favored soul will be able to help a bit, since healing spells can be used against undead. They'll certainly have as much healing available to them, assumign the favored soul takes the healing spells or has some healing wands handy. The lack of a rogue will also sting in some places, but a creative and innovative group can get around these issues.
I haven't messed around with gestalt characters at all yet (despite how nifty they look); but there's a lot of others on these boards who have; perhaps they can offer some advice there?
Parts of the Age of Worms campaign is a LOT tougher if you don't have someone who can turn undead. A favored soul will be able to help a bit, since healing spells can be used against undead. They'll certainly have as much healing available to them, assumign the favored soul takes the healing spells or has some healing wands handy. The lack of a rogue will also sting in some places, but a creative and innovative group can get around these issues.
Thanks for the reply James. What you said is what I was afraid of.....
My players began with no one who could turn and no one who was a rogue higher than level 2... so I just planted a magic item in 3FoE that will allow them to rebuke undead (as if its very power and evil doesn't need a "god" to channel the divine power) but it will also cost the player holding it a bit of life (hit point leech) so it's not entirely a "gift". As for the rogue problem, I've changed many of the DCs so they are easier to accomplish for the 2nd level rogue, and then suggested strongly that that player increase his rogue levels first before the others -- and it makes sense that he does because he will get to use the "rogue" abilities more, and thus be 'trained' in them.
I run a game with 3 gestalt characters. It doesn't really make your players that powerful over standard characters. They still only have so many hit points, and their AC will be your average AC. Their saves may be a couple points higher, which may make encounters with creatures that depend on abilities with a DC save a little weaker. The only true benefit is that they have a bit more utility to them. Which in all honesty can be a lot of fun. I allowed my players to mix and match any two classes that were found in the Players Handbook and the classes found in the Complete books. I ended up with a Paladin/Cleric, Wizard/Warmage, Rogue/Swashbuckler, Barbarian/Fighter.
The first 3 levels are pretty deadly - gestalt or not. I am noticing their power a bit more now that they are level 9. I think that the mind flayer may show them that they aren't invincible when we play on Saturday. We'll see. :)
You need to understand though... if you allow gestalt characters you will need to redo nearly every single NPC and monster so that the encounters are the correct challenge for the PC's. NPC's that have at least 2 (or more) levels of a PC class should be Gestalt as well. I boosted most monsters by 1 or 2 Hit Dice, and boosted their DC saves by 1 or 2 points. Granted I did not boost any of the monsters that are CR 1 or lower. I left them as is. You probably should as well, or it could turn out to be an early TPK.
My group just started last weekend. Only two could make it, the other two make it about 75% of the time.
They just finished Shackled City and they were all casters or rogues so they wanted a change. I ran an NPC meat shield for them on that one.
The first two: paladin and half-ogre fighter
The other two: probably a ranged fighter and a weapon/shield fighter
To help them survive I'm playing an NPC cleric.
They know it'll be tough, but figure the meat-shields will be able to take it.
If traps are too rough one or more of them will die and realize a rogue would be a good idea (and maybe a wiz/sor too).
But these were the characters they wanted, so they'll try and make it with what they've got.
They know I'm not going to take it easy on them because of their choices.
My group is a swashbuckler2/wiz2, a spirit shaman4, and a warlock4, so no turning undead there. I started them at 3rd level for Whispering Cairn, and they didn't have too much trouble with it, but they all realized that they would have been TPKed had they started at 1st level. I'm a bit concerened about the lack of undead turning ability, might have to do a magic item or something.
Another option is the Leadership feat or the use of hirelings. My group had a druid (who wasn't too interested in healing), and didn't aquire a cleric until recently. The group had a party member die in both of the first two encounters of the Spire of Long Shadows; the leader's kalashtar cohort, and the party wizard. After a little persuasion from me, the next cohort was a cleric; and it's made all the difference in the world. Three more deaths have all been averted thanks to timely Revivify spells (my new favorite spell next to the Cocoon spell in the Spell Compendium), and the cleric is the party's new best friend.
Is Gestalt characters some kind of rules mush?
I don't like to reinvent everything during gameplay.
What book is it in?
My group has a problem with Revivify.
Can it save someone who drops to -30 in one shot?
Should I rule that they suffer a coma for one week per
point below -10?
The advice so far has been dead on.
Add an NPC cleric and useful magic items.
You might even consider a changeling rouge NPC even if you
are not using Ebberon.
There are more Dopplegangers around than normal.
I'd strongly recommend against going gestalt. Some of the combos a player can come up with are heinous. A wizard/warmage has a an unrivaled spell selection.
I decided to do Maure castle gestalt. What a mess. One of my PCs is a barbarian/chaos monk/champion of Gwynharwyf with a Vow of Poverty. It's a character better suited for Exalted than D&D.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It's funny that there are so many threads where gestalt characters pop up. It makes me feel like less of a munchkin for wanting to take them for a spin around the block at some point.
Anyway, gestalt characters are from Unearthed Arcana but can also be found online in the SRD. They allow you to build a character with the best abilities of two core classes (very similar to 2e multi-classing if you are familiar with the concept). Such characters are more powerful than normal. They work best in situations where you don't haev enough players to fill the major D&D roles (tank, healer, blaster, scout).
It's funny that there are so many threads where gestalt characters pop up. It makes me feel like less of a munchkin for wanting to take them for a spin around the block at some point.Anyway, gestalt characters are from Unearthed Arcana but can also be found online in the SRD. They allow you to build a character with the best abilities of two core classes (very similar to 2e multi-classing if you are familiar with the concept). Such characters are more powerful than normal. They work best in situations where you don't haev enough players to fill the major D&D roles (tank, healer, blaster, scout).
LOL...I agree with the above that certain combos are just insane. I actually like Gestalt as you can build weird character concepts that aren't possable any other way. That being said....
My major concern with letting them go Gestalt is that I'll have to re-write every encounter, as someone above suggested. The reason I am running this is because I just don't have the time to write my own stuff anymore, so having to re-write every NPC/encounter kinda defeats the purpose....I think I just may up their ability stats and hope for the best. And, as someone else suggested, a TPK or two may convince someone that a cleric might be "fun to play this time." ;)
My party started off with no Cleric, and only a very part-time rogue, and has done fine.
The Rogue isn't even much of a trap-finder, more diplomat. The lack of search, disable device etc hasn't really been an issue as far a I can remember (I run a few side-trecks here and there, and so far we're nearly ready to start Hall of Harsh Reflections after a sojourn to Hardby is resolved).
The lack of turning has actually not been an issue - the Rogue/Wizard actually changed into a Cleric recently (long story), and the one time she's tried to turn (Spawns of Kyuss), the player rolled so badly it had no effect, so she may not try it again for some time. Undead can generally be beaten up like any other critter - just sometimes not so easily (Zombies are a classic for my group - they take a lot of beating at low levels due to their DR and our Fighter-type doesn't use slashing weapons).
But the group has no trouble because it's not "standard", and I think yours will be fine too - they have healing, that should be enough (until recently, my group's only healing came from Druids), and anyway there's loads of Cure Light wands for them to get later on.
I'm starting a new AoW game and I have a dilema. I only have four players, and none wants to play a cleric or a rogue. I have a fighter, a wizard, a monk and favored soul.
I have only read the first 3 modules, and have read alot of opinions about the rest on these boards, and I'm concerned about the party survival.
I HATE to tell people what to play, and the players are pretty set on their characters. So I would like to get the opinions of DM's that have run most of the campaign.
I'm considering going with Gestalt characters. What I want to know: is this gonna throw the power curve too far in favor of the charcters if I try to run the modules as written?
You know what you should do? You should create an NPC cleric to help the pcs some way.The Npc could be someone that the pcs helped previously or a friend of the pcs. Or the players could pay for the services of a cleric npc.
The monk, fighter, wizard, favored soul group will stomp enemies in Age of Worms. I think that group has enormous potential. At higher levels, if the wizard is well-protected, the entire party can roll into encounters with stoneskin, fly, haste, protection from energy, mind blank, etc. *shudders*
Even without turning, the wizard will make up for that with fireballs and eventually sunburst. The other three don't have a whole lot to worry about either.
Turning is good for feats like divine shield and such, but more often than not, the undead that ARE affected by turning are so weak that the fighter, favored soul, and monk could just take a couple rounds and mop up while the wizard studies that strange glyph on the wall. Really threatening undead, the "boss undead," will probably be unturnable once encountered, so turning itself becomes useless.
My group is a ranger, rogue, druid, scout, so not only do I not have turning in my party, there's no knowledge arcane or religion either. Lots of knowledge nature, and the rogue has use magic device. The ranger's favored enemy is undead, so there's that. Should be interesting.