Much like the subject line implies, I'm looking for further info about the White Kingdom (a la Wolfgang Baur). The only reference I've seen is the AoW's mention of True Ghouls and Mordiggian.
Weren't there other adventures and / or resources for this nasty kingdom beneath the Hellfurnaces?
Any useful responses are appreciated --
Creative Director
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Dungeon #70 had "Kingdom of the Ghouls," which was the adventure where the PCs travel to the White Kingdom. Dragon #252 has the "Ecology of the Ghoul," which talks a bit about the White Kingdom as well.
Mordiggian is the creation of writer Clark Ashton Smith, a contemperary of H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard; he's featured in the Smith story, "The Charnel God," and mentioned many places elsewhere. If you're looking for d20 Stats for Mordiggian, look no further than the d20 Call of Cthulhu rules that WotC published a few years ago.
Mordiggian is the creation of writer Clark Ashton Smith, a contemperary of H.P. Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard; he's featured in the Smith story, "The Charnel God," and mentioned many places elsewhere. If you're looking for d20 Stats for Mordiggian, look no further than the d20 Call of Cthulhu rules that WotC published a few years ago.
yeah - i'm an HPL/REH fan from waaay back. i recognized the name of the God of Ghouls, and really thought the lantern the one in the AoW was carrying did justice to the original story... nice touch!
i'm kinda torn about the God of True Ghouls. i'm a serious Greyhawk fan, and it just seems (to me) Orcus or Nerull might serve better for under the Hellfurnaces. is there an opinion around the office up there about Mordiggian/Nerull on this? why was Mordiggian placed in the AP instead of Nerull (who's in the core rulebooks)?
thanks for the details on the back issues - i'll see what i can do to find them.
try and keep the bail low --
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Creative Director
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i'm kinda torn about the God of True Ghouls. i'm a serious Greyhawk fan, and it just seems (to me) Orcus or Nerull might serve better for under the Hellfurnaces. is there an opinion around the office up there about Mordiggian/Nerull on this? why was Mordiggian placed in the AP instead of Nerull (who's in the core rulebooks)?
That's a good question. Especially when Libris Mortis sets up Doresain as an excellent canditate for the role of God of the Ghouls.
What it basically comes down to is personal choice. Both Wolf and I are huge fans of Clark Ashton Smith, and when I asked him what he thought about changing Nerull to Mordiggian as the god of the true ghouls, he liked it so I made the change.
Additionally... by having the true ghouls NOT worship one of the core deities, that helps to set them up as their own society. Mordiggian's a much more exotic entity than Nerull, and using him makes the true ghoul more exotic.
i'm kinda torn about the God of True Ghouls. i'm a serious Greyhawk fan, and it just seems (to me) Orcus or Nerull might serve better for under the Hellfurnaces. is there an opinion around the office up there about Mordiggian/Nerull on this? why was Mordiggian placed in the AP instead of Nerull (who's in the core rulebooks)?What it basically comes down to is personal choice. Both Wolf and I are huge fans of Clark Ashton Smith.
And what right-thinking person isn't?
Now taking applications for servitor races,
The Great Green God
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That's a good question. Especially when Libris Mortis sets up Doresain as an excellent canditate for the role of God of the Ghouls.
I'm pretty sure in Dungeon 70, Doresain was the literal King of the Ghouls and actually sat on the throne of the White Kingdom. I suppose this could be an Aspect or Avatar of him, or he could have just vacated the throne when he became a god and headed for the Abyss. There are some great possibilities here! I love Ghouls! It be cool to see Dungeon revisit the White Kingdom.
What it basically comes down to is personal choice. Both Wolf and I are huge fans of Clark Ashton Smith.And what right-thinking person isn't?
I really like Lovecraft, but I've never read CAS. Which of his books/stories/anthologies would you recommend I buy by way of an introduction?
I really like Lovecraft, but I've never read CAS. Which of his books/stories/anthologies would you recommend I buy by way of an introduction?What it basically comes down to is personal choice. Both Wolf and I are huge fans of Clark Ashton Smith.And what right-thinking person isn't?
You can find most of his mythos work bundled in with Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard (also very good though different from HPL). So if you own a mythos anthology the chances are good that you already own a Smith story or poem. I do not own Smith anthology, but I am sure that they exist. On that note you might also try Robert Bloch who was at the time the scappy kid of the Lovecraft Circle.
Averoigne from the classic module "Chateau d'Amberville" and much of the ghoul fiction you find in D&D and fantasy are linked to Smith and Lovecraft's work.
GGG
PS Thanks for liking the "Menagerie." It was a lot of fun to write.
As long as we're talking favorite mythos authors, allow me to pimp Robert W. Chambers. Mostly he wrote trashy romance, but every now and again he turned his pen to horror, and we have him to thank for The King in Yellow, one of my personal favorite corners of the mythos.
Kobold Press
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I really like Lovecraft, but I've never read CAS. Which of his books/stories/anthologies would you recommend I buy by way of an introduction?
Clark Ashton Smith is often out of print, but I'd recommend any of the Arkham editions (if you can afford them), Tales of Zothique (if you can find a copy), or the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/057507373X/sr=1-2/qid=1137632462/ref =pd_bbs_2/102-1790083-9616118?%5Fencoding=UTF8">Emperor of Dreams</a>.
If you're lucky, they'll have CAS at the local library. For someone so influential, his work is hard to find.
Clark Ashton Smith is often out of print, but I'd recommend any of the Arkham editions (if you can afford them), Tales of Zothique (if you can find a copy), or the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/057507373X/sr=1-2/qid=1137632462/ref =pd_bbs_2/102-1790083-9616118?%5Fencoding=UTF8">Emperor of Dreams</a>.
If you're lucky, they'll have CAS at the local library. For someone so influential, his work is hard to find.
Great references, Mr. Baur! Any chance for a future White Kingdom adventure for Dungeon? Are you comfortable with others playing the in sandbox you created and submitting their own WK adventures?
Enquiring minds wanna know...
Regardless - thanks for sharing the WK in the first place. Lots of room for horror roleplay down there. My players don't appreciate your work, however.
- peace is for the conquered!
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Kobold Press
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Any chance for a future White Kingdom adventure for Dungeon? Are you comfortable with others playing the in sandbox you created and submitting their own WK adventures?
I pitched a sequel years ago called "The City of the Cloakers" and got the go-ahead for it, but that was before 3E, so it's really, really out of date. If I were pitching it these days, I'd lean on the WK elements that were updated into Libris Mortis, and I'd probably skew it either much lower level (5th) or much higher (14th to 15th).
I'm always happy to see other people using monsters, settings, or other bits I designed; that's a good part of the fun of shared worlds. And I've been lucky enough to do the same, such as writing adventures set in Jeff Grubb's Al-Qadim or scribbling my own take on Gygax's Underdark. D&D is a place where passing the torch is encouraged. So, I say go ahead and submit a query.
Regardless - thanks for sharing the WK in the first place. Lots of room for horror roleplay down there. My players don't appreciate your work, however.
Ah, their lack of appreciation is music to my ears. :)
One goal behind the WK was always to turn the Underdark into a sort of Ravenloft setting: that is, the players are desperate to get the hell out. Glad to hear it worked.
Wolfgang--
The White kingdom adventure was probably one of the best i ever ran. Thanks for a great setting! It is one that kept me and my players in the underdark for about 2 months of real time. they must have gone EVERYWHERE and enlisted the help of every possible creature they could. Most of our sessions were simply diplomacy and role play. i think we got into combat only when the PCs finally got the the main fortress. Kudos on a fine adventure!! Some of my players still think it is one of the top 5 i have ever DMed. I have been thinking of submitting a query for a 3.5 adventure that was spawned off of that, as i love the true ghoul, and have used it as a replacement of the standard ghoul since that time. in the adventure i ran, the queen got away. it's not too hard to think she may have made it to the surface world, to start the process anew. anyway, thanks again for a great adventure, one of the top 5 all time greats, right up there with Gary's Tomb of Horrors, and expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
JP
Terrainmonkey