Hi at all,
I don't like, for my personal opinion, the system of advancement of DMG and I use a personal system that gradually rise the xp and level of PC. Briefly, I give a standard amount of xp at the end of any session of game, plus bonus xp for good role-playing, clever idea, and similar things.
Now, for this reason, I'm in search of suggestion for the progression level between the first three adventure on AoW path to planning the advancement.
1) At the end of the first path the max level of the PC should be:
2) At the end of the second path, should be:
3) At the end of the third path, should be:
Maybe at some (a lot) of you this system look strange or stupid, but don't bother you, also I'm strange and maybe stupid! ^__^
Also, I'm italian and I have difficult to explain in detail my system because english isn't my native language and I give you only a simple version of it. Excuse me.
Giuseppe A.
Italy
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I don't like, for my personal opinion, the system of advancement of DMG and I use a personal system that gradually rise the xp and level of PC. Briefly, I give a standard amount of xp at the end of any session of game, plus bonus xp for good role-playing, clever idea, and similar things.
Now, for this reason, I'm in search of suggestion for the progression level between the first three adventure on AoW path to planning the advancement.
1) At the end of the first path the max level of the PC should be:
2) At the end of the second path, should be:
3) At the end of the third path, should be:
Hey Giuseppe!
You're not alone. Though 3.xE D&D has done wonders for simplifying XP, I think they've gone a little too far. I too have modified the XP system (some would say heavily) so that the XP goes to the players/PCs that are proactive during the game rather than each PC getting the same XP each game.
According to the Age of Worms Overload document, the PCs should be third level by the end of the Whispering Cairn, fifth level by the end of Three Faces of Evil, and seventh level by the end of Encounter at Blackwall Keep.
I suspect my PCs will be very close to the fourth by the time they start Three Faces of Evil as I had a prologue scenario to get the PCs working with each other. I will not inhibit the PCs' advancement if they get ahead a little of the planned advancement schedule. I'll just toughen up the encounters or cut a couple of extra encounters depending on story flow.
I hope that's the information you we're looking for. If you want details of my XP system, I can post something over in the D&D section of the Paizo.com boards.
Best of luck,
Rexx in California
This is my first time experimenting with the actual experience rules. In my normal home campaigns I've done a level per session (which may seem insanely fast, but it's worked well since we rarely maintain campaign longer than 10 sessions... in any case, following the guidelines provided by the DMG and the EL's of the encounters my party of 5 managed to hit 2nd level after meeting Alaster Land and killing the Grick. I lost some members (1 death midway through, and 1 no show) for the next part but they hit 3rd after immediatly after the observatory. I suspect most parties will level at about the same time, but if not these seem to be really good spots to level them anyway. We have not gone back into the Cairn yet to face the Wind Warriors.
My PCs get at least one level after most modules I run.
My current group gains two levels sometimes when they finally get XP. I wait until the current quest, mission, etc. is completed (which can take up to four or five gaming sessions) before the group can rest and reflect on what they've done. At their current PL (25th), they make lengthy treks to distant locals and planes, so they can focus on the current conflict completely and exist on their own without needing to return home to resupply.
I hope to be able to slip in Sons of Gruumsh somewhere in AoW. That'll ensure that the group is at least 9th level by the 5th installment.
Hey Giuseppe!
-cut-
I hope that's the information you we're looking for. If you want details of my XP system, I can post something over in the D&D section of the Paizo.com boards.
Best of luck,
Rexx in California
Hi Rexx,
I agree with a lot of your idea, and the rate of advancement that you give confirm what I was thinking...
It look me to much quick for my standard, but I don't want to risk that the PC are too weak and I follow this rate.
I'd like to see your xp system, please say me when you put it on D&D section of the Paizo.com boards.
Giuseppe A.
Italy
in any case, following the guidelines provided by the DMG and the EL's of the encounters my party of 5 managed to hit 2nd level after meeting Alaster Land and killing the Grick. I lost some members (1 death midway through, and 1 no show) for the next part but they hit 3rd after immediatly after the observatory. I suspect most parties will level at about the same time, but if not these seem to be really good spots to level them anyway. We have not gone back into the Cairn yet to face the Wind Warriors.
Hi Pariah,
my party is composed of 6 PC (but without cleric, only a paladin). You think that with the suggested rate of advancement (3rd level at the end of first path) they have good chance to carry on the quest?
P.S. IMHO, I find the "one level per session" totally out of my mind and my system of play! ^__^
Giuseppe A.
Italy
I wait until the current quest, mission, etc. is completed (which can take up to four or five gaming sessions) before the group can rest and reflect on what they've done.
I hope to be able to slip in Sons of Gruumsh somewhere in AoW. That'll ensure that the group is at least 9th level by the 5th installment.
Hi Crust,
I use to wait the end of mission, quest, to give level advancement, too. But, IMHO, I see WC and the other path a sort of single missions put together in a big quest (tomb, Land, observatory, Duke Wind) and what bother me is to give the right (and accessible) challenge to PCs.
I'm interested in Sons of Gruumsh, too. And if you find a way to put in AoW, please, give me hints! ^__^
Giuseppe A.
Italy
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I give out experience when the party hits a safe place like a town, but only once a session at most. If during the session they do not return to town or other safe place, then they don't get experience that session. Another place I consider safe is inside a rope trick.
I am curious as to how other DMs handle training. I think the downtime as laid out in the DMG is too long for the path. The plot is moving way to fast for a party to wait for a rogue to train for multiply weeks.
What I have been doing is a sacrifice to whatever god they character calls their main god. The sacrifice would be equal to the trianing costs and once it that is done, the gods grant them the ability to level up. Leveling up happens immediately.
The only time that they are required to actually train is when they take a new class/prestege class for the first time. Then a trainer is required.
I've found in the past that using any training just bores the PC's and is a waist of time. I have them just rest and level up. If changing classes they should have a reason and nothing to absurd like a barbarian in a city.
I have my PCs train for the appropriate number of weeks as I believe this is both logical and fair. I admit that with the AoW I've had to adjust my usual system. First I'm using something closer to the level advancement in the current DMG for the first time (so it's HUGELY different than the 2nd ed level advancement). My players really like taking a break to train as it allows more "individual" time for characters who finish their training out of sync with the others. The only time this really breaks down is when players doing their own little side-trek business while they friends are in training then level up themselves AFTER the training weeks have already passed. If one is not careful the plot ceases to flow while the PCs leap-frog each other time after time in the local area just leveling up. This is particularly a concern with the AoW and the aforementioned newer level advancement system so I think I'll only have them train when a new feat or weapon or other significant change is indicated. My group is just preparing to go to the Land farm and already most of them are 2nd level (5 characters). I'm sure they'll be 3rd level by the time this module is over.
Anyway, my main point is that the training period has become like an adventure within an adventure for us and can be particularly useful to explain player absences (their character remains behind to train!). Those who haven't tried it as a game mechanic before should give it a shot. It's a different style of gaming than straight-forward hack-n-slash but can be lots of fun with creative role-players.
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Forcing myself to ease my old training regimen from the 1E/2E days started around the Player Options (2.5) rules came out. I too noticed a "leap frog" situation with PCs and their training as SirMarcus describes. I tried (briefly) to not allow advancement of a PC until an appropriate pause when multiple PCs would train. The PCs had continued to earn XP and often would suddenly jump two levels. So I started allowing the *ding*-effect to occur during a scenario. I crank XP after every session and if the PC earned enough for next level, *ding!*, they'd advance. I appease my training metagaming by insisting that the PCs must receive professional instruction once every three levels. Only during these training breaks can a PC learn a Feat/Skill/Language that isn't viable to explain as a "learn-as-you-go" ability. So new Knowledge skills have to be learned during this time. Craft Item Feats. New language skills outside of the party pool of languages. During this break I insist on two weeks of downtime. It's effectively "off-camera" and the details of those two weeks are handled on our Difonix.com message boards. This seems to work well enough.
So, as an example, Rogue has XP for 4th level but hasn't had professional instruction yet. The Rogue cannot take the benefits of 4th level until that time. They can continue to earn XP towards 5th level but once they're at 14,999 they stop earning XP until they've trained. They then wouldn't need training until 7th level.
Let's say the Wizard gets training at 2nd level. That's fine (and potentially cheaper). The Wizard would need training again to earn 5th level.
Lastly, when the *ding* happens, BAB and hp maximums go up, saves are adjusted but additional spells and special abilities do not kick in until a complete rest period (8 hours) has happened.
Giuseppe: I'll post something ASAP. Work and my Tuesday game may delay me until the 12th.
If changing classes they should have a reason and nothing to absurd like a barbarian in a city.
I had a DM tell me this once, and it really bugged me. "Barbarian" is just the name of the class. If it was called "Berzerker" or "Totem Warrior", fewer people would think of it as something you are born into. It's not a race -- it's a class.
2 cents,
rob
So I started allowing the *ding*-effect to occur during a scenario. I crank XP after every session and if the PC earned enough for next level, *ding!*, they'd advance.
I use the same system.
I appease my training metagaming by insisting that the PCs must receive professional instruction once every three levels. Only during these training breaks can a PC learn a Feat/Skill/Language that isn't viable to explain as a "learn-as-you-go" ability. So new Knowledge skills have to be learned during this time. Craft Item Feats. New language skills outside of the party pool of languages. During this break I insist on two weeks of downtime. It's effectively "off-camera" and the details of those two weeks are handled on our Difonix.com message boards. This seems to work well enough.
Here I use a similar, but not the same system (no every three level).
In my personal created sheet for PCs I have added a column at the end of the ability list, and called it "USE". When the PCs use successfull an ability (check vs. DC 10 + level) they mark an incremental number (1,2,3,ecc.) on this space.When they pass level can increment ability with "USE" superior to rank without training.
PCs can also increment ability between level if they attain the necessary "use points", deducting these ability points from the "pool" of the next level.
Lastly, when the *ding* happens, BAB and hp maximums go up, saves are adjusted but additional spells and special abilities do not kick in until a complete rest period (8 hours) has happened.
Similar metod also here.
Additional spell at day *ding* (for me the continuos use of magic is the training), but no automatic new spells (unless previous learned or written in the spellbook).Special ability and feat "until a complete rest period (8 hours) has happened", but only if justified in some way before the reach of new level. If not, need training.
New ability without rank only after training.
New languages only after a long training, minimun 1 month (possible to use between level other PC as teachers, books, ecc.). Half this time for languages with the same alphabet and near regions. Double this time for languages very strange or foreign (setting Forgotten Realms).
Take a new class or advance in one class rather than other for multiclass. During the level before the choice of new class or choice what class advance (multi), the PC must "demonstrate" this change or this choice.
Prestige class: For me this's a big, big choice of life and need a lot of work.
Giuseppe: I'll post something ASAP. Work and my Tuesday game may delay me until the 12th.
I wait! ^__^
Giuseppe A.
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I sometimes (not the AOW path) use a simple 1000xp/level system. Xp is awarded at 25/50/75/100 for simple/average/hard/deadly encounters (encounters being something that was pertinent to the story or involved combat where there was really a threat to PC's, not beating down the bartender, the smith and the mayor)). 10-20xp for good role playing or maybe 50 xp for puzzle/problem solving. Thus, coup de graw'ing a snoring Hill giant for the 5th level party might bag 25xp or a 100xp if the roll failed and he woke up..the 25 representing the potential for deadly combat if they f it up. Works well and from what I've seen really slows the rapid level advancement down.
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If changing classes they should have a reason and nothing to absurd like a barbarian in a city.I had a DM tell me this once, and it really bugged me. "Barbarian" is just the name of the class. If it was called "Berzerker" or "Totem Warrior", fewer people would think of it as something you are born into. It's not a race -- it's a class.
2 cents,
rob
In this case I'd side with the other guy. The initial Barbarian level (to me)entails being in a local that generates a reason for having barbarian abilities like fast move, rage, and extra skill points. Just taking barbarian to get rage or other abilities seems like munchkinism to me. Take a look at the level advancment and reasoning for conan on this site
http://enworld.org/Inzeladun/conan.htm
True, it's reverse engineered, so to speak, but it gives a good reasoning of why a D&D character might take levels in a diffrent class when he goes up a level.