I'm currently facing a problem where my characters are saying that the campaign contains too much information to understand and that its too confusing with all the nonplaying characters, the different locations, the organizations involved, and the "biggness" of the plotline.
They are currentl in the Whispering Cairn part of the adventure, ready to raid the Observatory. However, I've been told that the information about the Battle fo Pesh, the Whispering Cairn, the green worms, and the Talisman of the SPhere is just too much for them to handle.
On top of that I am using the Eberron campaign, and they are feeling that the campaign setting is too overwhelming.
Any comments, sugeestions?
Currently I believe our D&D campaign is simply going to stop, and we're just not going to be playing anymore.
Eek! That's not a good scenario.
Because my group plays once a fortnight, it's quite likely that details will be forgotten. What I've just started up is a campaign blog. It records the main events of each session so the players (and I) can refer back to it when necessary.
I also have a list of NPCs with short descriptions that I email to the players after every few sessions (I should put it online... in fact I will.
Cheers!
In my group we use Yahoo! Groups to keep in touch and I also upload handouts with the relevant information about the setting, the NPCs and so on. I also encourage the players to write and upload session logs so that they, and any new players, can update themselves on the story so far. Without this the players would probably have gotten (more) confused pretty quick.
its too confusing with all the nonplaying characters, the different locations, the organizations involved, and the "biggness" of the plotline.
Well, I can think of two possible solutions, depending on what your group is and what the exact problem is.
1. If your group is used to a hack and slash campaign, you can simplify the plot. Each of the modules are written to run stand alone, they don't really need to know about the back story of diamond lake. The modules run fine without ever seeing the sheriff, the other adventurers, and even Smenk for that matter. Allustan I'd keep because he's actually going to help point the party to the next module.
2. The better way would work if your party likes the detail and just can't follow it. For at least the rest of Whispering Cairn (and possibly TFoE) provide a synopsis for the party (either email, handouts, or I really liked the Yahoo group idea). Have a list of things like
Whispering Cairn - You started off exploring this in hopes of treasure but have found that it once belonged to the wind dukes. Blah blah blah....
Wind Dukes - Your not sure how they are, but long ago they fought the forces of chaos. Perhaps you could find more information at a library or a knowledgable historian.
Smenk - You haven't met him yet, but everyone seems to agree that he's a jerk.
Allustan - Seems nice enough, and is willign to identify items for you for a small surcharge.
So then when they find some new information add it to their list. As a DM it's a lot easier to follow the plot and get to know the characters than it is as a player.
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Information overload is always a concern with any game. As the previous two (er, three) posters have alluded to, keep an on-going "Rogues' Gallery" document that you add to with each consecutive game. As part of the document, create information bullets that succinctly relates the relevant information they've learned. Adjust this list based on how your group is "getting it". Keep the information trimmed to relevant elements to the plotline initially to keep confusion minimized. With time the information will more easily recalled by the players. At this point, add a few of your introduced red herrings to the list to keep the players guessing. By having this document updated for each game in a printed form at the table will certainly help the players to remember and "get it". Also use the online suppliments from Paizo.com for each adventure. Just having the artwork printed so you can cut it out and hand out is a great aid.
You might be thinking "well, that's a lot of additional work"; that is to be expected anytime you tackle a campaign depicted over 12 issues of Dungeon! Or perhaps your grasp of the game/setting/plot is better than the players. In this case finish off the scenario and have the Whispering Cairn segue into something more linear. Dig up a copy of B2-Keep on the Borderlands and have the party rape and pillage the Caves of Chaos while the monsters shout out (and only shout out) "Bree-yark" as they die on the PC's weapons before transforming into neat little piles of treasure. If they still don't "get it", get yourself a new group GUTH. ::wink::
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I also struggled w/the sheer volume of information. Especially when only the Whispering Cairn was published, it looked as though the backstory of the Wind Dukes and the fight against the Queen of Chaos was going to be very important. With the pubilcation of the AoW Overload and various threads, it's clear now that the Wind Dukes are not an integral part of the campaign.
In fact, from the perspective of following the breadcrumbs through the adventure path, the most important element of the Whispering Cairn is Filge studying the green worms. There's very little inside the cairn itself that connects to the plot of the adventure path. My advice is to stay focused on those elements that are integral to the campaign - the Ebon Triad for the first few adventures, with focus shifting eventually to the Age of Worms and Kyuss - and use the other elements as window dressing where you feel comfortable. Don't emphasize the Seekers or the Wind Dukes, emphasize the subplot that leads to Filge.
Sebastian
I also struggled w/the sheer volume of information. ...With the pubilcation of the AoW Overload and various threads, it's clear now that the Wind Dukes are not an integral part of the campaign.
... the most important element of the Whispering Cairn is Filge studying the green worms. There's very little inside the cairn itself that connects to the plot of the adventure path. My advice is to stay focused on those elements that are integral to the campaign
Don't emphasize the Seekers or the Wind Dukes, emphasize the subplot that leads to Filge.
Sebastian
Agreed. Just because there's a wealth of information and NPCs doesn't mean you have to introduce them all at once. Keep track of the main thrust of each adventure and use one, MAYBE two of the other background plots to flesh it out and keep it interesting.
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If your players still don't "get it" hand them an x box paddle and call it a day. The plot is not overly complex. Its fairly linear: WC leads pc's to dourstone mine, 3FoE leads the PC's to the southern hills and the mistmarsh, EaBK leads them to the free city...etc
if your party is used to no investigation, heck! the NPC's handle most of the brain work, if they think that the backdrop info is too much, just STOP playing AoW. the campaign is about discovering this cosmic threat, and heroicly thwarting it. if they can't or won't grasp the plot-quit and run them on Hack and Slash encounters against orcs or goblins...they probably won't grasp the nuances of tougher or more complex monsters.
Chief Technical Officer
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You can always just find clever ways - or even blatant ways - to remind your players about important things shortly before they become important. The downside is that this might quash some potential drama, but it's still better than having your players feeling that they're overloaded with data.
-Vic.
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I'd have to agree the plot is hardly complex....I play with some folks with room-temp I.Q., enough that I told them 'You might want to write these names down'. Then again, it's fairly simple to manipulate them when they have lost the path. One of the yokels decided he wanted to let his 'evil' druid's wolf fight in the feral dog pit right off the bat without much description of the local npc's. "The huge mastiff they bring to the pit, 'Old Red-Fang', is criss-crossed with countless victories over anything from pit-bulls to badgers...you're young wolf pisses itself and hides with its tail between its leg under your chair..." "Uh, maybe I wont put him in the pit..."
There is a lot of depth (so far) to AoW. Some players just need to play hack-and-slash, disconnected scenarios.
My players have quite the opposite reaction -- all the details makes it far more interesting and believable.
Just a couple of (possibly inflammatory) cents here :)
Jack
I do what Greg V did with his gaming group. The player characters WOULD remember stuff that the players don't. The characters "live" in this fantasy world and would find all the details much more important than the players do.
I'm very generous in this regard and often remind players of things their characters would know that they don't seem to remember.
Like Greg said, eventually stuff sticks. The characters don't have to spend 60 hours a week battling idiotic real estate agents like my wife does at her title company, so I sure as hell don't expect her to remember the name of the armorer whom she commissioned to make +2 chainmail for her character. Her character sure as heck would, though.
Yes, the pure role-players like to "immerse" themselves into the story and their characters, keeping copious notes and speaking in voice, with no distraction from the fine art of role-playing except an occasional dainty sip from a can of Jolt Cola. There's nothing wrong with that, but many people can't bring up that much mental energy.
There's nothing wrong with players just wanting to play a game. Hack and slash D&D is very therapeutic after a stressful work week.
The rogue's gallery and campaign blogs are excellent ideas.
Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Actually, the creation of a blog and a handout of the rouge's gallery is what put my group over the edge. Many feel it's too much for them to handle.
We're basically going to finish the Whispering Cairn (with any luck) and see what happens.
I've lost one player because he's fed up with the plotline and doesn't understand it.
My players tend to be miinature gamers more than role-players. I think the lack of hack-n-slash has frustrated them.
Basically if they can't kill it when faced with it, they're not sure how to overcome it.
Thanks to everyone for your comments.
Actually, the creation of a blog and a handout of the rouge's gallery is what put my group over the edge. Many feel it's too much for them to handle.
We're basically going to finish the Whispering Cairn (with any luck) and see what happens.
I've lost one player because he's fed up with the plotline and doesn't understand it.
My players tend to be miinature gamers more than role-players. I think the lack of hack-n-slash has frustrated them.
Basically if they can't kill it when faced with it, they're not sure how to overcome it.
Man, I feel sorry for you.
My group's pretty much the exact opposite. Without a good plot, they tend to wander around aimlessly and neither side of the screen gets much enjoyment out of it.
Eek! That's not a good scenario.
Because my group plays once a fortnight, it's quite likely that details will be forgotten. What I've just started up is a campaign blog. It records the main events of each session so the players (and I) can refer back to it when necessary.
I also have a list of NPCs with short descriptions that I email to the players after every few sessions (I should put it online... in fact I will.
Cheers!
Thanks for the idea. Consider it swiped:
Malachias Invictus' Age of Worms Campaign
Of course, mine needs some major work. I have dangled some XP carrots in front of my players in exchange for more detailed character backgrounds/stories and some other goodies.
MI
I quote Mr. Miyagi:
"No such thing bad student. Only bad teacher."
I quote Mr. Miyagi:
"No such thing bad student. Only bad teacher."
And this begs the question that I've wondered about: Am I simply a poor DM?
That's the question that I am unsure about. It sure seems like it. I guess this is a learning experience to say that I need to meet my player's needs better. However, I'm not sure how to do that without feedback. I am currently in the process of trying to find out what they'd rather see from the campaign.
Do they hate what I'm doing or just completely dislike the idea of this campaign called Age of Worms?
I'm not yet sure.
I'll just have to wait and see.
And this begs the question that I've wondered about: Am I simply a poor DM?That's the question that I am unsure about. It sure seems like it. I guess this is a learning experience to say that I need to meet my player's needs better. However, I'm not sure how to do that without feedback. I am currently in the process of trying to find out what they'd rather see from the campaign.
Do they hate what I'm doing or just completely dislike the idea of this campaign called Age of Worms?
I'm not yet sure.
I'll just have to wait and see.
Don't you sweat it, Guth! Just let the players regulate the flow of information with their own inquisitiveness or lack thereof. That way they always get exactly as much or as little as they're ready to handle.
As for the name, it's rediculous... but that's why I sucker-punched my 1st level characters with an overpowering encounter with a kyuss thingie right from the getgo. It set the worms=scary theme, taking the edge of the silliness a bit.
I would bet the player that quit did so for reasons other than the plot being too hard to follow--he just used that as an excuse.
If your players more into skirmish combat than roleplaying then you've got it made! So far the majority of RP stuff I've had in AoW is stuff I created myself. There are a lot of hooks in the Diamond Lake backdrop article, but if I were you I would ignore it.
Is there any particular stumbling blocks? What "plot elements" are impeding their tactical game?
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And this begs the question that I've wondered about: Am I simply a poor DM?
A DM/GM is only as good as their players.
I learned this a long time ago and no matter what the edition of the game (or the game system for that matter) it still holds true. There have been plenty of games I've been fried from real-world matters but the enthusiasm of the players' gets me up and makes for a great game. I've had plenty of games where I'm in the "DMing Zone" but the players' are too busy talking about _____ and picking their noses (yes, seriously, I hate cleaning the floor under this guy after every game...) that the game crashes and sucks giant donkey gonads.
There have been some great suggestions in previous posts that all of us can use. I too did the INT check "back-in-the-day". I still do it on occasion when some subtle reference is forgotten that the wizard would know. If presenting a reference sheet is too much like "homework" for you're players, your games are going to suffer unless you modify your game to meet the players' abilities. Even "room temperature IQs" can give off enough positive energy to help a DM make a memorable game if the game is built to their strengths/expectations.
GUTH, I'm sure you're a competent DM and your game would meet your expectations if you had a different mix of players. Work with what you have and you'll find that happy medium for everyone.
The story line does seem to be pretty disjointed in the first 4 episodes. Hall of Harsh Reflections (just finished reading) doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with anything AoW related, despite being an excellent adventure.
Im going to fix that though, with things like spawn of Kyuss in the sewers, and notes and journals along the way that add more evidence of the work of the Ebon Triad and the Age of Worms.
For me as a DM I have no problems tying things together, I have a problem with coming up with neato settings and cool powergroups to battle with. So far the storyline will work for me perfectly. I can be as flexible as I want, while keeping all the cool baddies and places to fight in.
If I may humbly suggest, a few ways to add more AoW to your AoW campaign:
add a "peasant tells a horror story of worm encrusted zombies" encounter in Whispering Cairn.
Add a book to filges observatory with some hint about Kyuss or the AoW in Whispering Cairn.
add some worm infected animals in both the blackwall swamps, and a dead one in a vat in the lair of the faceless.
Add a "transforming lizardman in to Kyuss spawn" encounter in the swamp. Basically he is writhing in pain and not a threat. But it can show the process.
Add Kyuss spawn beggers in the sewers or allys of the Free City.
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Creative Director
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The "disjointed feel" to the first few episodes of the Age of Worms is at least partially intentional. Figuring out who the main bad guys are is part of the theme of the adventrues. In addition, not everything that happens in Age of Worms is directly tied to the overall plot; it's good to have side quests that are only slightly related to the main story arc now and then.
And be careful with the free-range spawn of Kyuss in the sewers; there's not much keeping them from taking over a city if that happens.
These adventures are linear, as stated above, and by going over the key plot elements the players will at least understand why they went from point A (the Whispering Cairn) to point B (the Ebon Triad temple complex), even if the events of A and B don't seem to be related.
You could arguably state that point A is actually part of the finite plane WXYZ (the war between Law and Chaos) and that point B, while linear from A, is part of a separate finite plane, STUV (creating the Overgod). Over the course of the adventure path, though these two planes will never join into a larger, continuous plane, eventually, point G (the discovery of a part of the Rod of Seven Parts) will appear on WXYZ and will linearly connect to point H (requirement of an Age of Worms prophecy) that will appear on OPQR (Age of Worms), forming a new plane ABGH (fulfillment of the Age of Worms prophecies). And though point C (the discovery of kyuss worms in the Mistmarsh) doesn't exist on lines AB or GH, it does exist on plane ABGH. Now, point D (the attack on the heroes in Hall of Harsh Reflections) isn't part of any of these planes, simply the end of a perpendicular line originating on plane STUV. Next, point E (the rise of the ulgurstasa in the Champion's Belt) will create plane BCDE (the Ebon Triad's involvement to start the Age of Worms, yet separate from WXYZ) to connect planes STUV and OPQR. Point F (Ilthane, the black dragon) will connect with points C and K (Drogotha, part of OPQR), but will not be part of BDCE, having nothing to do with the Ebon Triad. The discovery of ABGH will turn the party to explore the Spire of Long Shadows, where they will discover the history and horrors of OPQR, through point I (Balakarde’s research into Kyuss). The desire for more information will create a linear link to point J (Lashonna) who has become part of yet another plane, XVPR (the politics in the Redhand) in order to become a more powerful point in OPQR. When she meets the party, she gives them the information about OPQR that she has, including information on point K.
That should clear things up! :)
These adventures are linear, as stated above, and by going over the key plot elements the players will at least understand why they went from point A (the Whispering Cairn) to point B (the Ebon Triad temple complex), even if the events of A and B don't seem to be related.
You could arguably state that point A is actually part of the finite plane WXYZ (the war between Law and Chaos) and that point B, while linear from A, is part of a separate finite plane, STUV (creating the Overgod). Over the course of the adventure path, though these two planes will never join into a larger, continuous plane, eventually, point G (the discovery of a part of the Rod of Seven Parts) will appear on WXYZ and will linearly connect to point H (requirement of an Age of Worms prophecy) that will appear on OPQR (Age of Worms), forming a new plane ABGH (fulfillment of the Age of Worms prophecies). And though point C (the discovery of kyuss worms in the Mistmarsh) doesn't exist on lines AB or GH, it does exist on plane ABGH. Now, point D (the attack on the heroes in Hall of Harsh Reflections) isn't part of any of these planes, simply the end of a perpendicular line originating on plane STUV. Next, point E (the rise of the ulgurstasa in the Champion's Belt) will create plane BCDE (the Ebon Triad's involvement to start the Age of Worms, yet separate from WXYZ) to connect planes STUV and OPQR. Point F (Ilthane, the black dragon) will connect with points C and K (Drogotha, part of OPQR), but will not be part of BDCE, having nothing to do with the Ebon Triad. The discovery of ABGH will turn the party to explore the Spire of Long Shadows, where they will discover the history and horrors of OPQR, through point I (Balakarde’s research into Kyuss). The desire for more information will create a linear link to point J (Lashonna) who has become part of yet another plane, XVPR (the politics in the Redhand) in order to become a more powerful point in OPQR. When she meets the party, she gives them the information about OPQR that she has,...
And THIS is why I have trouble explaining D&D to people!
So long as one or more of the characters has a journal and writing equipment written down on his character sheet, I'll remind them of just about anything they've already heard, since they could find it after a few minutes just skimming notes.
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Another point to consider is that in WC was the fact that the party was raised in the squalor of Diamond Lake and adventuring was a means to escape the town and find fame and fortune. By the time we had gone though The 3 Faces of Evil,most of the group were wondering why do they keep coming back to Diamond Lake. The events of Blackwell? Keep did'nt help any and now they plan to ditch Alustan and go to Calimport.(wait til i unleash the hall of harsh reflections on them, though i'll be using tne night parade instead of dopplegangers or mind flayers).
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There DOES seem to be a great deal of magic and treasure for a 1st-level adventure. I assumed it was prep so the party could survive the Ebon Triad, which is pretty powerful. A few adjustments to both the treasure and the opposition will likely keep my players from doing the same thing (at least, I HOPE so).
I fiured early on that "making money to escape from Diamond lake" would lead to problems as a driving force, so only one of my characters is in that boat. One just wants adventure, one has had premonitions of the Age of Worms and one is specifically looking into the green worms.
I'm lucky in that one of the players in my group is an old-schooler and picked up the few obscure references to the Wind Dukes and the Rod of Seven Parts before I laid them out for them and they do also keep notes of all of the NPC names and stuff that they find along. I have been meaning to start up a blog, but it's currently in my (fairly large) "to-do" pile.
If you're worried about the lack of "action", I agree with Mr. Mona: 3FoE has plenty and the party should be able to get their fill at Blackwall Keep, as well.
I think a fairly simple solution can solve your problem, GUTH. You just have to tweak your style a bit. Simplify the campaign and don't worry about the details so much. Entice the party with the prospect of dungeon-crawling through the cairn, beating up bad guys, and collecting treasure. There is a fair bit of that in WC so all you have to do is focus less on the details or merely summarize them.
It doesn't mean you are a bad DM. It seems like your players just like traditional Hack N Slash style. It's not the "wrong way" to play the game, just a different way.
A few discussions later, my players have explained that they want lots of action, combat, and hack-n-slash.
They also feel that they are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation with the Age of Worms. They feel the adventure path is too bleak and hopeless.
They also feel cheated that the "Talisman of the Sphere" did not turn out to be a part of the Rod of Seven Parts.
But they are willing to keep trying. We are planning to play through the part where they raid Filge's hideout.
Basically, they want very low information and backstory, low amounts of role-playing, and lots of hack-n-slash.
I can see doing this with some parts, however others may become difficult. For example, the parts in Overload mentioning Lashana doesn't appear to me to be filled with combat and danger.
The part they hated the most was when I introduced Diamond Lake, and allowed them the freedom to do whatever they wanted in town. They felt that they had too many choices, and no set goals. They tell me they had too much freedom to explore the town, and no opportunies to use their combat based abilities.
Complaints were also made that they don't know who to trust in-character and they feel like they are wandering around just waiting for something bad to happen to them. They feel powerless and helpless.
So, that's what I'm working with. I'm going to try hard to meet their needs. I may stop by and create threads from time to time asking for advice. I really really appreciate the positive voices in this message board. Thanks a lot!
Well, first of all, a part of the RoSP will fall into the adventurer's hands sometime in the campaign. (Read the Overload, it's mentioned in there.)
Regarding their feelings of lack of trust... have Allustan bend over backwards to help them and prove himself trustworthy. Make your good guys wear white hats and your bad guys wear black ones. Smenk is thoroughly evil; Allustan is good. Put everything in the perspective of black and white.
Feel free to remind the players of things their characters should know, but their players have forgotten. Remember, you could be picking up your new session two weeks after the last time you played, but for the characters it's been two minutes.
Let the party hire an NPC that will take care of most of their chores... selling items, researching, etc. This will let them focus on hack 'n' slash, and less on roleplaying.
On the powerless and helpless feeling.... send some thugs at them who are grossly overmatched by the party. Even better, send a group roughly equal in power to the party and fudge the rolls in the party's favor, aiming for a dramatic but victorious for the party fight. Don't let on to the players that you're fudging rolls in their favor. If you do this correctly, they'll feel like they have more power and are better than they thought.
It sounds like you have a relatively new to gaming group. Most new players thrive on the combat aspects of the game... play these up, and downplay other aspects.
Remember, there is no winner or loser in gaming. If your group concludes that they had a good time, then that's all the victory you need.
Squid
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The part they hated the most was when I introduced Diamond Lake, and allowed them the freedom to do whatever they wanted in town. They felt that they had too many choices, and no set goals. They tell me they had too much freedom to explore the town, and no opportunies to use their combat based abilities.I pity you...these are exactly the things my players love about age of worms....and one of the reasons I'm greatly enjoying running the campaign....tell them they will have LOTS of hack n' slash in 3FOE, the next part.....and since they love combat, don't make qualms about KILLING a few of them, since that's a good possibility once the grimlocks start attacking....
I see others have already mentioned blogs or e-mail reminders. I have one other suggestion that has worked well for me. I award players a 100x.p. bonus per session if they write up the session in-character and send it out to the whole list. I usually get 2 or 3 from each session, which serves as a good reminder for everyone, and has also increased (even if only slightly - sigh) the role play at the table.
Drew Garrett
Too Hard to Follow....
I've found since the Istivin 3 issue mini-campaign that some of my more savvy players not only show interest in the plot line, but help ME (the DM) keep track of the story and explain it to the rest of the players. These OTHER players could care less about the story plot; they prefer to be led by the nose from one fight to the next.
This dynamic will hold true as long as the players remain the same.
A few discussions later, my players have explained that they want lots of action, combat, and hack-n-slash.
Then I think that overall your players will be very happy with AoW. Add extra encounters in and around the swamp, use a good tournament style for the gladiator fights, etc.
They also feel that they are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation with the Age of Worms. They feel the adventure path is too bleak and hopeless.
I noticed this just by reading through the synopsis. AoW has a very dark undertone throughout, similar to the Lord of the Rings. The heroes never felt like they were winning, even when they came off a hugh victory. I'm actually going through books to try to play up this feeling. Currently I'm trying to use Darkness & Dread (by Fantasy Flight Games), and I'm anxious to see Heroes of Horror next month.
They also feel cheated that the "Talisman of the Sphere" did not turn out to be a part of the Rod of Seven Parts.
Then they should be pretty excited when it pops up in the future. I think that the whole Rod of Seven Parts was a nice decoy, and I can see how some of the players could end up a little cheated.
Good luck! Have fun!
--And I realize I may have over-done the mathmatical formula for AoW... I was just trying to be silly, but got carried away.
A few discussions later, my players have explained that they want lots of action, combat, and hack-n-slash.
They also feel that they are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation with the Age of Worms. They feel the adventure path is too bleak and hopeless.
They also feel cheated that the "Talisman of the Sphere" did not turn out to be a part of the Rod of Seven Parts.
But they are willing to keep trying. We are planning to play through the part where they raid Filge's hideout.
Basically, they want very low information and backstory, low amounts of role-playing, and lots of hack-n-slash.
I can see doing this with some parts, however others may become difficult. For example, the parts in Overload mentioning Lashana doesn't appear to me to be filled with combat and danger.
The part they hated the most was when I introduced Diamond Lake, and allowed them the freedom to do whatever they wanted in town. They felt that they had too many choices, and no set goals. They tell me they had too much freedom to explore the town, and no opportunies to use their combat based abilities.
Complaints were also made that they don't know who to trust in-character and they feel like they are wandering around just waiting for something bad to happen to them. They feel powerless and helpless.
So, that's what I'm working with. I'm going to try hard to meet their needs. I may stop by and create threads from time to time asking for advice. I really really appreciate the positive voices in this message board. Thanks a lot!
Guth,
I have a group that is like yours. In fact, I prefer a game that is at least 75% rolling initiative. That's awesome that your group has given you what they want. I have some suggestions.
-Have encounters prepared beforehand on scratch paper, with monster hp, ac, saves, full attack, DR, SR, any miss chance, any spells currently active, and key special attacks. I also include some very shorthand tactical notes, such as a feat/class skill/spell-like ability combos. This speeds things along.
-Use a board of some kind. A dry erase board or a chalkboard. Draw as many maps as you can, and plot out things, where enemies are, etc.
-If you don't have the books memorized, just come up with ad-hoc rules on the fly, and keep things moving. If you're not sure if it's +2 or +4, use +3, say screw it, and move forward. I find that rifling through a mountain of books in the middle of a boss battle just plain stinks.
-Don't be afraid to totally change encounters. Toss in a rabble of orcs if things get boring. Have a pesky wizard pop in with a gang of ghouls or something. Keep the PCs on their toes. Toss in a side module to let them know that it's not just one campaign they're involved in.
-Give your players a mentor. You can make this game so easy for them by just making Allustan the know-it-all sage who is constantly scrying and teleporting and using sendings and legend lores, etc. to just point the PCs in the direction of the next campaign hook. "Greetings, adventurers. You must now investigate the Whispering Cairn. Oh! And be mindful of Smenk..." That's what I do. Give the group a mentor of sorts, someone who seems to know everyone and everything, and who is content to nudge the younger, intrepid adventurers off onto the road to adventure (much like Gandalf does in LotR). Sure, let the ranger do some tracking, have the group roll knowledge and survival checks, and give them the feeling that they're operating with independant thought ;-), and you'll have happy gamers.
-Let the PCs kick butt more often then you kick theirs. Give them meat to hack down, and do some fun verbal choreography. Develop styles for your fighters, thematic magical effects for the spellcasters, and acrobatic moves for the rogues. Make it visual.
-Create reoccuring villains, perhaps NPCs with class levels that you create to specifically act in opposition to one or all of your party members. Your PCs need arch enemies. The Dungeon issues can't anticipate your party's dispositon, so don't expect to find that perfect villain in a pre-made module. Create those yourself.
-Don't be afraid to change the module itself. You need to bend and mold those modules to fit your party's disposition. Change, add, and remove NPCs to suit your party's behavior and attitude. If there's a ranger in the group who has giants as his favored enemy, there better be giantkin for him to hunt down and kill... or perhaps be forced to ally with against a greater foe, which can be all you need to stimulate even the smallest level of role-playing.
-You might just go ahead and start making role-playing decisions for the players themselves. See if they like that. If they do, so be it. Run with it, but don't kill a PC in that manner. If the player doesn't like that, then you might awaken a role-player, and that's contagous.
-Give them magical items. Players like that. Nothing too over the top. Just make sure they're outfitted as if they're hard-core adventurers who don't play at warfare.
-Try to create a persona for your players. If there's a powerful fighter in the group, have upstarts challange him. Have assassins hunt him down for killing the arrogant cousin of some noble in Waterdeep. Always have him square off with the clan chieftan, the orc captain, etc. Find a way to heap renown on your players for the deeds they accomplish. They should hear their own names spoken by bards they've never met.
-Don't force them to stay in-character at all times.
-Concerning role-playing, if your players don't want to "act the part" so to say (mine don't), and they don't want to have to act out approaching countless NPCs to gather information and all of that, just give them brief narrations informing them of what their characters are doing on a general level. Update the group as often as you can on the situation at hand. Show them maps, use the pictures in the overloads, and remind them of the people they've met and the foes they've slain. Have PCs roll knowledge and gather information checks under the assumption that they've done some ground pounding and are now ready to embark. You might bring Allustan into the mix. Have him sit with the group while they're suiting up so he can brief them on what they need to do. Have Allustan suggest the necessary equipment, and make sure the PCs buy that stuff. Have Allustan pass off a potion or two, perhaps a scroll, before each trek. When the group gets stronger, it might be time for Allustan to take up a staff and join the PCs in the field.
-Try substituting role-playing with e-mails to your players updating them on their accomplishments. Write it like a scribe chronicalling the exploits of a new and brash group of adventurers who are feared by many, hated by some, and loved by more.
I think I'm tapped out. I think you'll find that the more you play with your group, the more you'll be able to act in tune with your players. You'll know what they want, and it's ok to give it to them. It's not the DM vs. the players. Everyone is contributing to the story. In fact, I'm always reluctant to kill a PC, since I want to do so much with each one!
I also struggled w/the sheer volume of . . . . My advice is to stay focused on those elements that are integral to the campaign - the Ebon Triad for the first few adventures, with focus shifting eventually to the Age of Worms and Kyuss - and use the other elements as window dressing where you feel comfortable. Don't emphasize the Seekers or the Wind Dukes, emphasize the subplot that leads to Filge.
Sebastian
Great advice, Sebastian. I am reminded of the documentary of the LOTR movies on how Peter Jackson,et al. trimmed down the plot of the books into focusing on Frodo's journey; you got it right here in this case, too. Thanks for giving the right focus.
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Your PC's should love 3 Faces of Evil. Lots of good fights, and at the end, you get something that begins to tie things together. The first mention of Kyuss. Blackwall Keep was a good combat centered scenario, and my PC's wiped out the Lizardfolk until coming to the shaman. he begged them to check on the eggs, since the Lizard King would not allow him too, and they did. They found the Dragon Egg, and were trying to remove it, when the Hexblade failed (fumble actually, nat 1) and had the choice to trip and fall on the Lizard Folk eggs, or the Dragon one. He chose the Dragon one, and all the worms started coming out.
There will be alot of background that the PC's will need to keep in mind, and I would have them start hating Kyuss and his minions now. Perhaps the AoW is not for your group. May I suggest the greatest dungeon of all time, Rappan Athuk, by Necromancer Games. Or perhaps try Dungeon Crawl Classics, by Goodman games.
There can be as little or as much RP involved, but there is definatley a story to follow. If your players are not into that, I would not try to force it on them.
Just my opinion,
Patrick
After having a read of the problem, I realised that my party is essentially the same, but we've sorted out what we're all looking for in a game and with only a little work ther's no problems. I provide the group with a brief write up of their previous session at the beginning of the next, including the broad outline of what happened, any important NPCs, any big clues they missed and anything else I just feel they should know. The games have every opportunity for a bit of hack and slash exploited and we keep to their threshold of complex plotness. Interestingly enough, their complexity threshold has increased as we've been playing to the point where they don't mind if we have the occassional session where there is no combat at all.
The big thing was finding out what we were all looking for and then aiming for a nice compromise.
Reggie
I agree. This is a major problem with dungeon adventures for me. I don't understand how I can have a masters degree, but I am utterly confused after reading a few AoW adventures. I basically am going to take a marker to anything that says Wind Dukes and black it out. What is the purpose of story if it is so complicated the players just give up trying to understand it (as I suspect is the case for over 50% of these modules).
I just read shackled city, and on the first page it talks about Adimarchus falling in love with Athux and tearing celestia into Occipitus.... first of all use some names that I can pronounce sometimes. Second of all if it doesn't matter to the campaign, don't tell me about it!...
Anyways, my group is NOT hack and slash players, we LOVE story line in campaigns... I just find that these story lines are so complicated, so difficult to solve, and have so much irrelevant information that the players just give up trying to understand.
Why would I pay attention to the storyline after listening to a story about the freaking wind dukes only to find out 3 adventures later that that info was completely irrelevant.
So my comment would be. Please give us relevant info to the PLOT LINE in future AP's. I think DM's are more than capable of making irrelevant info if they see the need.
Thats my rant.
I noticed the two previous posts were quite a few months apart ;) Just wondering how the campaign was going, GUTH... if your players actually got interested or not. My two coppers would be echoing the advice up above, or just simplifying it.
BTW, I'm also running Eberron, and love the overload of info you get with a campaign setting. However, your players probably don't feel the same way. Luckily, you have a blatant and rather easy way of spicing up any adventure.
The Emerald Claw.
These guys are DnD's version of Indiana Jones's Nazis. They're Al Qaeda, they're the Axis of Evil, the Gauls, the Mongol Horde, etc.
In short, they're killable. Always. Without question, hesitation, or mercy.
I took five minutes to explain that to the players in 3Faces, and it worked wonders. Anytime the fighters start looking bored, a random Claw group shows up for some thinly-veiled reason with another hook to get them interested. The players whoop it up, wipe the floor with them, and feel better about the game.
Hope things have been going well since September ;)
My players have become more interested in the AP and are actively taking part. They are still very combat oriented but a few of them have discovered that D&D is actually more than a miniature game. (My players are big fans of Warhammer and Warmachine)They were at first viewing D&D as a "glorified" miniatures game. Some of them have begun to develop the personality of their characters and are having fun with it. I have also utilized a blog which they can use to access information before and after the game. Things are going much better since the primary post.
I have found that I cannot run subplots. They seem to only want to focus on one thing at a time, so they will ignore everything but one issue at a time. This caused a problem with AOW because the beginning of the AP is choppy and focused more on giving a nod to old greyhawk legend and lore rather than taking a direct route to the meat and bones of the story. They are still confused, I believe, about why their characters even did anything they did in the Whispering Cairn as none of it seems to connect with the TFOE.
Also, developing NPCs as allies is difficult because they assume that all NPCs are enemies. Thus, all my good guys have to wear white and all the bad guys need to wear black. The PCs are the only ones wearing gray and it's often a dark shade of gray. Thus, the issue of making Allustan a trusted benefacot has been a problem. At one point they were convinced that Allustan was the bad guy behind the whole plot with Filge because Allustan was being helpful to them (thus he had to be getting close to set them up!)
I am still using a campaign setting loosely based on Eberron. They don't seem to love it, but they don't complain much either. They don't seem to care one way or the other about the setting.
We currently are at the near end of the TFOE. I recently posted some information about the good role-playing and good planning they pulled off at the beginning of TFOE.
We stopped playing D&D before Christmas and I'll probably try to pick up playing again next month.
Good to hear things are progressing. I hope they stay interested in the AP... and it sounds like they're paying quite a bit of attention, if they have such a developed opinion of Allustan ;) After reading ahead I can tell you that paranoid nature might actually save their skins in the near future.
Until recently I played with a hack-and-slash group that only cared about munching their characters and infighting. They took the RP side of things a little too far... every party eventually devolved into a bragging contest with rampant backstabbing. I certainly hope you haven't seen anything of that sort.
Good luck with you Age of Worms.
Good to hear things are progressing. I hope they stay interested in the AP... and it sounds like they're paying quite a bit of attention, if they have such a developed opinion of Allustan ;) After reading ahead I can tell you that paranoid nature might actually save their skins in the near future.
Do you mean the bit where he takes them to blackwall and then teleports away? I'm not going to be running that part in that way at all. It would destroy the effort I've put into making them trust Allustan. Or are you hinting at some betrayl by the wizard in the future I've missed by reading Overload?
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Do you mean the bit where he takes them to blackwall and then teleports away? I'm not going to be running that part in that way at all. It would destroy the effort I've put into making them trust Allustan. Or are you hinting at some betrayl by the wizard in the future I've missed by reading Overload?
One of the bosses in Hall of Harsh Reflections is a doppleganger (greater?) who takes on Allustan's appearance when the PC's first enter his chamber. Quick idea for keeping him teleporting for help in your game. Before he and the pc's leave Diamond Lake (if you're having them take him at all), have him, with the pc's in tow, stop by the town garrison and have him apprise Commander Trask that he'll be out of town. Try to give them the impression that he's trusted by the local garrison. That is assuming they don't have a low opinion of the town's soldiers.
Before he and the pc's leave Diamond Lake (if you're having them take him at all), have him, with the pc's in tow, stop by the town garrison and have him apprise Commander Trask that he'll be out of town. Try to give them the impression that he's trusted by the local garrison. That is assuming they don't have a low opinion of the town's soldiers.
I like this idea... I'll have him stop over at the Garrison and basically tell them "I am heading to Blackwall Keep on personal business, do you have any news you wish for me to deliver to them?"
Thanks for the idea Tessius.