Seeing as the "Tips for Contributers" thread has gotten a bit ungainly, I thought it would be nice to have a sort of repository where the freelancers who periodically submit to Dungeon (and Dragon, too) could post advice on the process, etc.
Also, maybe the folks from Paizo could post advice, or what they want or have a shortage of to help out writing.
Soooo, post away!
WaterdhavianFlapjack
things I have learned while sending in proposals...
1. Apparently, 7th level is the most proposed level-making it difficult to get one of those accepted.
2. Half-??? (elemental, demon, dragon) based big bad evil guys are now passe'-they still accept those, but you have to knock them out of the park with originality.
3. If you can tie in to an upcoming WotC release, you have a better chance. (The Frozen North...or whatever it waas called that Wolfgang Baur wrote the Dungeon adventure where the PCs track some snow-based badguys across an ice floe that kidnapped a town ...can't remember the name of the book or the adventure off hand).
4. Unique locations were all the rage....and....
5. Less 'dungeon crawls'. If you have a crawl, make it unique.
That's all I can think of in the last year of rejections. Some of this info is kind of old...but Mr Walker said recently low-level and 'urban' adventures are still given preference. And epic-level adventures are really needed always. I never have made it that far in my local campaigns, I retire the characters usually around 12th level or so.
Somebody else might have some other ideas. Mr Wissel, Greer, Simcoe, Pett????
What the drunk said... plus short adventures are in demand.
When writing your proposals, what I've learned is to hit 'em with the good stuff right away. Don't build up to it. They get bored. They want to know what the adventure is about and how the PCs are going to be involved in it right away (or at least the first page).
Mind you, if you've got something really, really, really cool, there are allowances for the build up, but this could be pretty hard to accomplish these days.
Don't be discouraged by a rejection. Even if they come back and tell you not to quit your day job or console you with the fact that the world needs ditch diggers too. Writing is a craft you get better at with the doing. If you want to write, do it a lot and while you are waiting for a response to a querry do it some more.
Oh and no borg stories for a while and lots of Eberron, Eberron, Eberron.
GGG
That's all I can think of in the last year of rejections. Some of this info is kind of old...but Mr Walker said recently low-level and 'urban' adventures are still given preference. And epic-level adventures are really needed always.
I can do that. I have an Epic-level idea that I was saving for my next group.
Be very self-critical.
Think about your favourite adventure ever and what made it so. Love the next adventure you'll write as much as the one you're doing now and keep the ideas flowing. Read lots of old dungeon adventures and look at why they worked. Always assume this will be your first or last appearace in Dungeon.
Oh and please, please, please don't submit any 'roper-only' adventures as I'd quite like to do that one if it ever appears.
Or sto-ropers.
Rich
lots of Eberron, Eberron, Eberron.
And Forgotten Realms as well. Our last submissions meeting (granted it was back in June) had zero usable FR proposals. Which means we need some.
Remember the "3 Ps"
Polite, Professional, Patient
At the "How to Write for Dragon Magazine" seminar at GenCon Indy, the panel members (Erik Mona, F. Wesley Schneider, and Jason Bulmahn) mentioned receiving 10+ article queries per day...over a week or a month, that amounts to a lot of queries. In past, I've received e-mails from editors at DUNGEON and DRAGON in the evening, on weekends, and late at night...I'm not sure those guys get much sleep...
In past, I've received e-mails from editors at ... DRAGON in the evening, on weekends, and late at night...I'm not sure those guys get much sleep...
Ditto.
And Forgotten Realms as well. Our last submissions meeting (granted it was back in June) had zero usable FR proposals. Which means we need some.
lots of Eberron, Eberron, Eberron.
I'll have to get on that. :)
Keep the advice coming, guys!WaterdhavianFlapjack
And epic-level adventures are really needed always.
Is that true? My impression was that Dungeon rarely will feature epic-level material.
About once a year or so, according to info from the various seminars at GenCon. Assuming I'm remembering right, of course. ;)
Hey Zherog-
Assuming you are the same Zherog from the WotC boards (*but, who knows there could be hundreds of Zherogs running about), you mentioned over there that you went to a "Writing for Dungeon" seminar...can you give some details???
And, as for the Epic levels...that might be old info. I seem to remember a call from Mr Jacobs asking for superhigh level adventures. It may even go back to right after they published the epic level adventure that had to do with a semisolid cloud and a cloud giants castle built in the clouds that floated all around...(can't remember...getting too old...getting sleepy)
Hey Zherog-
Assuming you are the same Zherog from the WotC boards (*but, who knows there could be hundreds of Zherogs running about), you mentioned over there that you went to a "Writing for Dungeon" seminar...can you give some details???
Dear gods - could the world handle more than one of me? :P Yeah - I'm the same Zherog as over there. I did give some details in my "GenCon Reporter" thread over there. Because I'm fairly lazy, I'll start by copy/pasting that in. I'm sure other folks who were there can fill in some of the blanks:
According to the editors, the easiest thing to get into the mag with is the Campaign Workbooks articles in the back. They print at least two a month, and as many as four. If you're going to do a Critical Threat (one of the more common ones), keep a few things in mind - the NPC you present shouldn't be an "end boss" type, just somebody you encounter along the way. Templates need to have a very good reason (this goes for anywhere in the mag, really).
If you're looking to write an adventure, here's a few things about the query process to keep in mind:
- Stay away from half-dragons, dire rats, and dopplegangers. They've been appearing a lot lately.
- Don't hide secrets from the editors. It's OK (and even liked) to present a mystery. The editors, though, shouldn't be in the dark.
- If you're just beginning, start small. Don't propose a nine part series - there's no chance an unpublished writer in the mag will get it. Propose the first part, and work from there.
- Don't go past two pages in your query; you'll lose their interest, making it harder for your adventure to get picked.
- 10,000 words is a really good number, though you can go anywhere between 5 and 15 thousand. Don't ever go above 15 without a prior arrangement.
- Right now they have a burning need for low level, low word count adventures.
- Remember that you can find a ton of cool feedback and advice on the Paizo message boards. If you haven't been there, you should check it out. I'm always amazed at the willingness of both the editorial staff and the other writers to chip in and help people out. Good stuff out there.
I'm certain there's details that I've missed. I'm sure they're stuck in my mind somewhere, they just aren't coming out. So I'll let others fill in any details I've missed.
And, as for the Epic levels...that might be old info. I seem to remember a call from Mr Jacobs asking for superhigh level adventures. It may even go back to right after they published the epic level adventure that had to do with a semisolid cloud and a cloud giants castle built in the clouds that floated all around...(can't remember...getting too old...getting sleepy)
I could certainly be wrong, but I vaguely recall Erik, James, and/or Jeremy mentioning at the seminar that the general plan is to run one Epic level adventure a year, more or less. If somebody with a better memory than me wants to correct that statement, that'd be cool. :)
Don't go past two pages in your query; you'll lose their interest, making it harder for your adventure to get picked.
That's the killer for me, I just can't seem to compress the plot synopsis to "only" 500 words :)
On the subject of adventure pitches and the like, here's one that didn't make the grade a few months ago (for what it's worth :) ). Upon reflection I think it suffers from too much story and not enough concrete details about the adventure itself (monsters, traps, treasure, etc). If anyone would care to critigue it, pointing out any flaws for the benefit of others I've got skin even thicker then my skull so feel free :) .
The Heir of Silas Blackthorn
All intelligent beings, good and evil, monster or civilized, live within a web of expectations and assumptions. When a creature challenges these beliefs, refuses to fill the role society demands, sometimes others lash out, letting rage overwhelm reason. True heroes learn to look at a person's soul, and sometimes this could throw both the forces of good and evil into turmoil…
Format
"The Heir of Silas Blackthorn" is an introductory adventure, intended for 1st level characters though scaling it up 4th level should prove fairly simple. I expect it to be about 8000 words and require three maps (one for the overall area, one for the monster lair and one for the ambush/firefight site at the end).
Plot
Recently, Silas Blackthorn, a famed retired adventurer and leading citizen died. A notorious prankster and eccentric there was a great deal of speculation as to who he might leave his considerable estate. When the will was finally read, and the lawyer announced that Blackthorn's heir was an ogre named One Ear a near riot ensued. Outraged that a filthy, murderous, monster might actually claim the mansion, the business holdings, the country estate and all the other accoutrements of one of the community's elite members numerous citizens have begun the process of annulling the will. Lead by a rising politician named Jerome Wolfstrider they seem likely to succeed, and those who actually believe in law and order (or simply honor old Silas' last wishes) know they must act quickly to get One Ear to town and press his claim. So, someone has to go out into the wilderness, find the ogre and convince him to return to town to claim his inheritance.
What's Really Going On
Silas, despite his reputation knew far better then his fellow citizens when selecting a suitable heir. One Ear is an exceptional ogre, intelligent, learned, blessed with the heart of a born philosopher he has actually embraced a life of pacifism. His fellow monsters regard him as the most vile of traitors and would like nothing more then to see his head on a pike.
Jerome Wolfstrider on the other hand is far more then simply a demagogue. He owed Silas a considerable amount of money. Enough to cause his bankruptcy if someone attempted to collect, which would without a doubt lead to the end of his political career. Wolfstrider saw the selection of One Ear as Silas' heir as his best chance to escape from the debt and is using the prejudice of his fellow citizens for selfish means.
Adventure Outline
The PCs have only a limited time to find One Ear, and must get him back to town before those following Wolfstrider manage to change to law and disinherit him. To make things more complicated, recently one of the leaders of the local monster tribes sent some minions out to destroy One Ear. He escaped from the raiding party, but they captured his home, a tree house suspended upon several massive branches.
When the PCs arrive, the ogre they spy limping along the clearing -and likely assume to be One Ear- is actually Split Foot, the "muscle" of the group of goblins who have taken the tree house. Eventually, they must deal with these invaders, perhaps made more difficult if they approach Split Foot peacefully and suffer the consequences of an ambush. The complicating factors of the tree house, including the need at one point to use a rope swing to get to the other part of One Ear's home, also makes the lair a little bit more interesting and memorable.
Eventually, after dealing with the raiders, and discovering One Ear's place of refuge the PCs may track him down. They must then convince him to travel with them, despite the danger, and turn for home. As they near town however, they run into one final challenge, a team of mercenaries sent out by Wolfstrider to murder One Ear before he reaches the city limits. This pitched archery duel, in a place with lots of cover, concealment and other complicating factors, should provide an interesting challenge.
Since this is an introductory adventure I like to include lots of possible directions for the DM to take the campaign. Two intriguing "hub villains" make their appearance, Wolfstrider and the leader who sent the creatures to attack One Ear's home. It also presents One Ear, a potential patron, or ally for the party, especially if they set out to dispel the prejudice of the townsfolk.
And of course, there's the mystery of old Silas' death….
Hal,
Keep the following in mind as you read. I am an arrogant, opinionated dragon and not to be trifled with...
Kill the first paragraph - it's nice, but you imply it all later within the text. Starting with that lead in sounds like you are pitching a philosophy lecture. Go straight for the vitals: green eyes, auburn hair, 5'6", 112 lbs, 34C", 23", 34", before you list the likes and dislikes. The openning also assumes a great deal on the part of the player characters. "Ogres et me aunt Netty, I'd rather see 'em all dead in a ditch o' lime, but I needs the copper." Try to keep this neutral, or somewhere between Good and Neutral.
Backstory is important but you might cut to a two or three line blurb and then delve the details. PCs must retrieve an ogre who has been a named the beneficary in an eccentric gnome's will.
Ogre's are significantly tougher than the PCs are at first level. You might want to restate One Ear's pacificm so the editors don't get the idea he's going to win all the PCs battles for them.
As 1st Edition Greyhawk junkies (correct me if I'm wrong) the staff of Dungeon might have some bias themselves toward a pacifist ogre. Ogres are monsters. At first level, the DM has to set the tone for the game and springing a good ogre on a party that has never met an average member of the race might not fit in a particular DM's game plan.
How's the skin holding up? Tender yet? Perhaps you are too tough to be gobbled down.
GGG
One other thing they mentioned at the Writing for Dungeon Magazine seminar (which was pretty frickin' awesome BTW) was that they are in need of Critical Threats and Campaign Workbook articles (1250 words NO MORE!). And just to reiterate, short low-level adventures (around 5,000 words) is what they are looking for now.
Hal,
Keep the following in mind as you read. I am an arrogant, opinionated dragon and not to be trifled with...
Kill the first paragraph - it's nice, but you imply it all later within the text.
Backstory is important but you might cut to a two or three line blurb and then delve the details. PCs must retrieve an ogre who has been a named the beneficary in an eccentric gnome's will.
Ogre's are significantly tougher than the PCs are at first level. You might want to restate One Ear's pacificm so the editors don't get the idea he's going to win all the PCs battles for them.
How's the skin holding up? Tender yet? Perhaps you are too tough to be gobbled down.
GGG
Yeah, I was thinking much along the same lines as you, which is why I thought it might be nice to show a rejected pitch. Writers -like doctors- tend to bury their failures :)
I still like the idea of a tease -the first paragraph- but that one doesn't work for its intended purpose. I really should have leapt right into the action somehow as you suggest. There's no point in doing a tease if your audience yawns while reading it... :)
You're also right in that I spend too much on backstory and exposition and avoid the meat and potatoes of the adventure itself. Truth be told, the only part of the write up I think really works is that quick mention about the rope swing and the tree house, that would make for a neat combat so I should have spent more time on that stuff instead of all the politics. I think I was trying to set the DM up with a campaign rather then just an adventure.
If I were doing it over again I'd probably cut the stuff dealing with the politician back in town, including the ambush at the end, and focus more on the wilderness side of it.
I never considered the notion of a good ogre messing things up though. That's a new one, thanks for the insight :)
Yeah, my skin's just fine :)
BTW, just in case it got lost in the message board shuffle, check out my comments in "126 well done!" (or something like that) since I mention that one of the ideas in "The Menagerie" could, in my oppinion anyway, be developed into a Campaign Workbook.
Just a couple of ideas
The Heir of Silas Blackthorn
All intelligent beings, good and evil, monster or civilized, live within a web of expectations and assumptions.
maybe just this first line...the biggest thing I noticed is that its 750 words long and single spaced. It's just formatting, but I personally like reading big chunks of text in double space...I think they even said they wanted it double (and maybe reprinting it here messes with the format, but there is still the 750 word length). I dunno where else to trim, but there has to be a way to tell most of this same story in a shorter framework. This is the most difficult thing. I have been called on in my rejections for 'too much backstory. the players will never know all of this stuff, unless the DM tells them after the game is over'. I personally have to know all the backstory to know the relationships of all the various NPCs...but boiling it down and telling in a small amount of words just the right amount of backstory is some crazy non-euclidian formula of cooking that I have not found yet.
Format
"The Heir of Silas Blackthorn" is an introductory adventure, intended for 1st level characters though scaling it up 4th level should prove fairly simple. I expect it to be about 8000 words and require three maps (one for the overall area, one for the monster lair and one for the ambush/firefight site at the end).
Plot
I think you do need that final confrontation as they come back inot town...I like that too.
Messing with PCs heads is may alltime fav thing to do. Plant a scarab of death in the pile of jewels, turn the basic ettin into a wight, give the bugbears some sorcerer levels. And make the 'monster' into good guy and the 'law abiding citizen' a pompous evil dirtbag. GREAT! Though as it was said by the almighty GGG, first level is kind of a tender time for the little PCs--dont' completely freak them out till they get about 4th level. Maybe if this was a proposal for 4th level adventure (with suitable dangers/rewards increases), it might have gone all the way to print, who knows? The editors might also have 6 other proposals with ogres and didn't want to add one more.
Interesting stuff to think about for the next couple of weeks, while we all send in one more proposal for the post-gencon slush meeting...ITS COMING! bwah-ha-ha-ha!
Writers -like doctors- tend to bury their failures :)
What failures? ;)
BTW, just in case it got lost in the message board shuffle, check out my comments in "126 well done!" (or something like that) since I mention that one of the ideas in "The Menagerie" could, in my oppinion anyway, be developed into a Campaign Workbook.
Hal, I did catch those, and thanks. As you guessed in the post it was casually dropped in. I didn't have the room to stat out the objects I wanted in the room (like the stuffed owlbear for example) so I was left with "cheating". However I think it turned out to be a very good cheat all things told. I love charts and rolling dice and I think most DMs do to, hence I love the return of the Hordlings in "Chamber of Antiquities". If only the charts were longer.... Ah well.
I doubt I will ever write an "Animated Objects" article, but if you ever were to write such a thing Hal, I'm sure I would incorporate it into all future runs of "The Menagerie".
::Hint hint wink wink nudge nudge::
The Ever-Lazy Great Green God