Wil Wheaton has written in his blog (www.wilwheaton.net) that he will no longer be writing Wil Save, apparently due to negative feedback from somewhere...Hmm....
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Hmmm.
I don't know how to feel about that. I haven't been able to sleep and I really need to. Maybe I've been subconciously waiting for this news.
I've been very vocal in bashing Wil Save. But I don't have anything against Wil Wheaton. Best of luck in everything he does. But I am glad to see that a "single page" that I abhor will be leaving Dungeon.
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Hmmm.
I don't know how to feel about that. I haven't been able to sleep and I really need to. Maybe I've been subconciously waiting for this news.
I've been very vocal in bashing Wil Save. But I don't have anything against Wil Wheaton. Best of luck in everything he does. But I am glad to see that a "single page" that I abhor will be leaving Dungeon.
Edit - I'm going to take the liberty of posting the relevant section from Wil's most recent Blog.
I have written my last column for Dungeon. When I started, I was under the impression that I could write whatever I wanted, as long as it was related to gaming. So I wrote about games I love, like Illuminati and Car Wars. I wrote about playing Magic with Nolan, convention gaming, and playing True Dungeon at SoCal GenCon last year. I really enjoyed writing the columns, but the feedback I got was largely negative (it's really time to just get the f$~& over Star Trek, nerds), so Erik Mona, my editor at Dungeon, asked me to write columns that were focused purely on D&D. I tried my best, but my life was just too full to put in the time that running or participating in a campaign requires. It was very hard to write a column about D&D when I couldn't play at least once a week, so I told Erik last week that I felt that I couldn't provide the quality and consistency that he and Dungeon readers deserve, and he graciously accepted my resignation. I loved working for Erik, who is a fantastic editor, and I will continue to read both Dungeon and Dragon, which I feel have improved tremendously under his leadership. I'm sad that I can't be part of it any longer.
I think that Wil said it quite well. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of his writing - that's a matter of personal taste. It has so much more to do with content. Nothing against Wil, but he hasn't been playing D&D, and it showed. So, I welcome the change, and I hope that everyone comes out of this happily.
Second Edit -
The part about "It's time to get the f~@# over Star Trek, nerds" seems a little inappropriate. I liked Wesley Crusher in Next Generation. However, none of my complaints had anything to do with the quality of Wil as an actor. They were about his suitability to write a column as an actor (I didn't know he had switched gears) and his ability to generage relevant content to a magazine about Dungeons & Dragons. I may be a nerd, but I'm not out to ruin his life because of one character one one show.
I guess there are people out there that are that petty, but I imagine that Wil is too eager to blame any criticisms on that one perceived flaw. I think that's a shame, but it may well be an effective defense mechanism. Anyway, I'm tired, so I'm rambling.
Guess this means I'll be changing my avatar, LOL!
While not all gems I liked Wil's stories. They're just like nay other gamer's stories filled with nostalgia and variety. I can see why Erik'd want him to focus on D&D, it's what Dungeon & Dragon do. Sure, the old days of Dragon had all sorts of other TSR gamestuff (and I think some non-TSR stuff, too.) At any rate, while I won't necessarily mourn the loss of the Wil Save articles I did enjoy them for exactly what they were: fun stories from a gamer about gaming.
- Chris Shadowens
I think it absolutely, positively SUCKS that Wil Save is gone. However, if you erad Wil's announcement in context, it's understandable.
However, let me just go on record to say that I enjoyed reading his columns, that they were a welcome break from the good geekfest that is Dungeon (and they were still relevant in a wider sense), and if the editors find a replacement who can write equally well about this hobby of ours as Wil did, I'll applaud them.
It is rediculous that because of a handful of subscribers whom truly don't understand the maturity of the article, the rest of the subscribers have to suffer. His article separated this magazine from the other adventure magazines I could have subscribed too for a lot cheaper. I hope he can write this same article for one of the other ones.
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It is rediculous that because of a handful of subscribers whom truly don't understand the maturity of the article, the rest of the subscribers have to suffer. His article separated this magazine from the other adventure magazines I could have subscribed too for a lot cheaper. I hope he can write this same article for one of the other ones.
I don't think that a few vocal subscribers chased him away. I for one, wouldn't be pleased if that is the case. For, even though it would be the end result that I wanted, it wouldn't be the 'moral victory' that I could have had.
Wil Wheaton doesn't play D&D anymore, though he probably did. He can't write the article while focusing on D&D because he doesn't have recent experiences that will resonate with the reader. There is a lot of ground that he couldn't cover without playing.
His other option was to make things up. Sure, he might have done a good job, but his integrity wouldn't have allowed that. I think that having him write "just anything gaming related" doesn't work in a Dungeons & Dragons magazine, and I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to think that is irrelevant.
In any case, the editors of the magazine also held a high moral position, sticking by Wil throughout all of the criticisms and complaints of his column. That isn't easy to do, and I applaud them for that. But, it was his decision to stop writing for the magazine, not the editors, and I hope this can be a situation where everybody wins.
At least, I hope that Wil can be happier and focus more time on his family, which is something I know is important to him from having read his blog for the last year or so.
I will miss Wil Save because it brougth back many pleasont memories of gaming in AD&D for me with my firends when I was a teen only slightly older than Mr. Wheaton.
As for Getting of Star Trek. I have except for walking away from $10,000.00+ an episode for doing about NOTHING for anything other than improving your grades and/or health. Beats $100.00 weeks at Woolworth's I made and I work my butt off hauling trash, sweeping/mopping floors, cleaning bathrooms, baling out the basement storage area( flooded often the sump pumps were 50+ years old and the *()(%^(%( drunken manager was too cheap to have all 5 of them replaced so instend he me bucket bail basement into the sewer). God,I hated that place. I hated him(drunken *(&%(% bunghole had a hot wife but cheated on her constantly). I finally quit after my grades were too bad. so,k bad it screwed up my chances at federal student aid. Got $400.00 in Federal aid instead of the $4,000.00 I needed so that went goingto college since I needed $5k plus for the cheapest school in the Penn State system in my hometown adn could olnly borrow $2,500.00! Hehe, turned a bunch of photos and tapes(audio & video) over to his wife a little while after I quit after I quit).. He never should should have taught me how to use that video camera so he could self promote himself to upper regaional management. (evil grin) Her lawyer did to him what a HUGE ancient red dragon does to an ill-equipped level 3 party.
I DO HOPE WILL WHEATON DOES PLAY D&D WITH HIS KIDS AND THEN MAYBE THEIR FRIENDS. I LOVE DEARLY LOVE TO SEE THAT ARTICLE!
It is rediculous that because of a handful of subscribers whom truly don't understand the maturity of the article, the rest of the subscribers have to suffer.
Wil has done the right thing. He realized that D&D was not a topic he was capable of or interested in writing about. I think if he is interested about writing about general gaming, then he should aim articles at magazines that cater to general gaming. I think his articles may be better received there. And for people who just loved Wil Save, there is still Wil’s Blog. I’m sure he will continue to talk about his exploits in the arena of general gaming there.
I don't get the Star Trek comment. I know that his portrayal of Wesley Crusher never had anything to do with Wil Save. I'm not sure if Wil has realized this.
His article separated this magazine from the other adventure magazines I could have subscribed too for a lot cheaper. I hope he can write this same article for one of the other ones.
What other Adventure Magazines? As far as I know, my beloved DUNGEON is the only 100% D&D Adventure Magazine out there.
ASEO out
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Yes!!! If this is really true and the article is finally going the way of Polyhedron then soon I may be a subscriber again! ...
You don't mean this, don't you?! I can't hardly imagine someone not subscribing just because of Will Save... :0
Anyway - it's as always: Some people complain and might be a minority, but majority is sitting still, saying nothing - or too less...
I don't blame anyone for anything - we're living in a free world and everybody might say his opinions. I am just sad, because I liked the read every month.
And even if he don't plays D&D, he pretty much knows what it's about - I had some moments where I thought:"Yes, like when I had been young..."
I've found Wil Save to be uninteresting filler in Dungeon, but I didn't find it's presence objectionable -- why should I?
I have, however, found many of the vociferous attacks on the column (and especially its author) to be quite objectionable. Whether or not you like his material, common decency demands a level of respect and consideration often absent on this messageboard.
Regards all,
Jack
PS first-time poster; sorry it was to complain :/
All-in-all I love following this list's discussions.
Count me as another subscriber who found Wil's column to be interesting, and also one who found the constant attacks and complaints to be offensive and downright rude. This whole episode is sad, in my opinion.
I find the direction and quality of Dungeon Magazine to be exciting and entertaining. I am even now considering renewing my subscription to Dragon Magazine after a long, long absence. I wish that I could say the same for these messageboards.
Hurm.
The part about "It's time to get the f#~! over Star Trek, nerds" seems a little inappropriate. I liked Wesley Crusher in Next Generation. However, none of my complaints had anything to do with the quality of Wil as an actor. They were about his suitability to write a column as an actor (I didn't know he had switched gears) and his ability to generage relevant content to a magazine about Dungeons & Dragons. I may be a nerd, but I'm not out to ruin his life because of one character one one show.
I guess there are people out there that are that petty, but I imagine that Wil is too eager to blame any criticisms on that one perceived flaw. I think that's a shame, but it may well be an effective defense mechanism. Anyway, I'm tired, so I'm rambling.
Actually, I do remember a lot of the anti-Wil posts at least commenting on his time on Star Trek... QSamantha in particular seemed to have a real hate on for Wil... It wasn't a "I hate Wesley, I hate Wil!" thing, but I can easily understand how Wil would take some of the criticism that way.
Overall... I'm quite sad that Wil Save is leaving the magazine. It was always the first thing I turned to when I got the magazine, and it's one of the few things that I consistently read. I don't have time to read through all of the adventures, even the Campaign Workbook articles often just get skimmed, but Wil Save I always really enjoyed reading thoroughly. I'm going to miss it. :-( I hope they can find someone else capable of taking over writing the article... And maybe someone will hand Wil a huge gob of cash so he can retire and play D&D again and be able to pick up Wil Save again. :-D I think Wil's got good reasons, but that doesn't mean I can't be upset. ;-)
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I think that Wil said it quite well. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of his writing - that's a matter of personal taste. It has so much more to do with content. Nothing against Wil, but he hasn't been playing D&D, and it showed. So, I welcome the change, and I hope that everyone comes out of this happily.
Overall, I agree with you DeadDM... I think it was handled about as well as it possibly could be by Wil and Paizo/Dungeon/Eric. I like Wil and will continue to check out his blog, but I don't know that his absense from Dungeon will be a tremendous void.
On the other side of the issue, now Dungeon has a blank page...what are they going to do with it? On the Wil Save rant thread someone (perhaps numerous times) suggested getting other celebrities who are into D&D to do a column (or 3 or 4). I remember Robin Williams and Vin Deisel being mentioned...any other good luminaries? David X. Cohen, the producer of Futurama? For that matter, do Billy West or Joe Dimaggio currently play? Just a couple of thoughts.
I hope they can find someone else capable of taking over writing the article...
Hmmm... I think that, like I've said hundreds of times, if there is going to be something else that replaces Wil Save I would prefer it to have in game use instead of being a special interest column.
On the other hand if it results in the elimination of that page, which since it was a bonus feature (and did not surplant anything per Erik Mona) that I didn't care for I would not count it as a loss if that page just vanished.
If there is going to be a Blog like page after the passing of Wil Save, then as long as it is about D&D, I'll be less vocal.
ASEO out
I don't think that a few vocal subscribers chased him away. I for one, wouldn't be pleased if that is the case. For, even though it would be the end result that I wanted, it wouldn't be the 'moral victory' that I could have had.Wil Wheaton doesn't play D&D anymore, though he probably did. He can't write the article while focusing on D&D because he doesn't have recent experiences that will resonate with the reader. There is a lot of ground that he couldn't cover without playing.
His other option was to make things up. Sure, he might have done a good job, but his integrity wouldn't have allowed that. I think that having him write "just anything gaming related" doesn't work in a Dungeons & Dragons magazine, and I'm surprised at the number of people who seem to think that is irrelevant.
In any case, the editors of the magazine also held a high moral position, sticking by Wil throughout all of the criticisms and complaints of his column. That isn't easy to do, and I applaud them for that. But, it was his decision to stop writing for the magazine, not the editors, and I hope this can be a situation where everybody wins.
At least, I hope that Wil can be happier and focus more time on his family, which is something I know is important to him from having read his blog for the last year or so.
Once a gamer always a gamer. Please read my post on the other forum as I do not wish to rehash the same things there. The majority of naysayers failed to see the sophistication of the article. Your surface opinions of it are relevant of the incapicity to grasp the concept of the writing. I would like to see that a majority of Dungeon subscribers are not so and I bet they are not. It was about the busy life of a gamer. That was the point of it. No, it did not have any d20 stats and i woudl prefer it not to.
HOnestly, between rpgnow and free content I can find a dozen great mapped out (i'm talking battlemaps) adventures for 8 bucks. I enjoy the magazines I subscribe to be a little more sophisticated and sub wotc book part 320. I think great articles like Will's make these magazines more than that. The casual reader can pick it up and enjoy it. Dungeon will make a huge mistake if they do not get another columnist to feel that space as I know with all of the campaign arcs coming up in the magazine (that are too much for me to adapt to my campaign) that I need articles such as Wills and Montes to keep me subscribing.
QUOTE="Don DM"] Once a gamer always a gamer.
And that means what exactly? That all gamers are the same. That any game has relevance to all other games? That I should be able to relate to an ex actor who finds his previous fame negatively impacts his ability to play games I don’t care about?
Please read my post on the other forum as I do not wish to rehash the same things there. The majority of naysayers failed to see the sophistication of the article. Your surface opinions of it are relevant of the incapicity to grasp the concept of the writing. I would like to see that a majority of Dungeon subscribers are not so and I bet they are not. It was about the busy life of a gamer. That was the point of it. No, it did not have any d20 stats and i woudl prefer it not to.
Why should I want to read about the life of someone who doesn’t even share my enjoyment of D&D in what is after all a D&D magazine? Is his life more interesting than mine? Not to me.
HOnestly, between rpgnow and free content I can find a dozen great mapped out (i'm talking battlemaps) adventures for 8 bucks.
You have evidently not looked much past Wil Save if you think there is a better source for quality adventures than DUNGEON. I have yet to find the consistently high quality, full color, print adventures that I get in every issue of DUNGEON. Nowhere can you constantly find the quality of authors that appear in DUNGEON for 8 bucks.
I enjoy the magazines I subscribe to be a little more sophisticated and sub wotc book part 320. I think great articles like Will's make these magazines more than that. The casual reader can pick it up and enjoy it..
If you really want just Wil’s writing. Read his Blog. It’s FREE. If you want Adventures read DUNGEON. As far as sophistication…look no further than the Adventures in DUNGEON. Full color in a print resource…you won’t find that anywhere else. And at the cost per page of printing color of the quality at which DUNGEON is printed, you’ll not find that PDF quite as much of a value unless you are printing it on someone else’s dime Still, you end up with something that isn’t as nice looking as the well bound DUNGEON. An article about a topic other than D&D…remember this is a D&D magazine…sticks out like a sore thumb and rightfully attracted negative attention.
QUOTE="Don DM"]Dungeon will make a huge mistake if they do not get another columnist to feel that space as I know with all of the campaign arcs coming up in the magazine (that are too much for me to adapt to my campaign) that I need articles such as Wills and Montes to keep me subscribing
I agree articles by Monte Cook and the other in game useable articles in the back of DUNGEON are great. Not only do they give you something you can use, but they are fun to read.
ASEO out
The majority of naysayers failed to see the sophistication of the article.
I have absolutely nothing against Wil Wheaton. I didn't watch Star Trek TNG until it was well into reruns and never watched the original series. I didn't particularly like Wesley Crusher the character but I certainly wouldn't hold that against Wil Wheaton the actor/person. I thought Stand By Me was great.
Do I think Wil has writing chops? Yes, most definitely. But his column seemed to lack consistency. One week it would be a good solid piece that I could relate to and the next it would be a load of bunk about how unfair the world is that Wil the person has been juxtaposed with Wesley the tv teenager.
I certainly didn't hate the column, but I am not sad to see it go.
Ding dong the witch is dead!
I only wish that the worst feature to ever disgrace this fine mag had an actual, physical grave I could go out and desecrate.
Happy day!
"it's really time to just get the f!%@ over Star Trek, nerds"
Hahaha! Sweet. Just ignore all the people like myself who managed to point out the columns many weaknesses with no mention of Wesley Crusher and the fact that he's always the first to toot his own Trek horn (online and in Wil Save). Yeah, it's all Star Trek haters with a personal vendetta against you, Wil. Geez. Persecution complex, anyone?
Wil has done the right thing. He realized that D&D was not a topic he was capable of or interested in writing about.
*snippage*
ASEO out
I think this sums it up well. Wil agreed to write an article for Dungeon, and after a few installments he was asked by the editor in chief to focus more on D&D. I think Wil is a good enough writer that he could have faked it, or trotted out stories from when he played as a kid. He didn't do that, though. Instead he had the integrity to say to Erik, "Hey, I don't think I can meet your high standards on that topic."
I have a lot of respect for that.
With the notable exception of Dungeon #124, the Age of Worms Adventure Path kickoff, I found that I would read Wil Save before I read any of the actual adventures. I sometimes found it interesting (especially when his article related to D&D), and sometimes found it kind of unremarkable. But I always read it. I think I will miss the article, but know that Erik Mona will introduce something new and interesting in its place.
How about a monthly article by hardcore D&D gamer Vin Diesel?
Just kidding.
Wil wrote the column because Erik asked him to and because he loves gaming, including D&D. He left because of the vicious attacks on these boards. Erik still wanted the column. Many, probably most, of the readers still wanted the column. But frankly, we don’t deserve his column. The vicious and childish attacks he has suffered are a lasting mark of shame for us on these boards.
Writing a column for Dungeon is a labor of love and doesn’t pay very well. Now, he’s simply getting out of an abusive relationship. Good for him. Bad for us.
Hard to believe our opinions have resulted in the improvement of Dungeon. I'll wait until the page is replaced with something better before believing it.
...I personally loved Wil Save...I thought it showed that a gamers life has more to do than just D&D.
I appreciated every single column, and it will be missed if it is truely gone. Mr. Wheaton talked about the game, but he had other things to talk about, and it worked each time. Good luck to you, sir.
I wish Wil would come back.
MAKE IT SO!
LG
If someone had taken the time out of their day to bash my work (over and over) the same way Wil Wheaton has been attacked personally and professionally, I don't think I could bring myself to read Dungeon or bear to hear it mentioned in my presence afterward. It's really got to hurt. Bad. I mean this is the hobby he grew up with and loves and got to write about it (not always directly, mind you) in the holiest of D&D magazines. Everyone has a different relationship to the game. Some can play a lot, others juggle more resposibilities and can only game infrequently at best.
While I never had a strong opinion one way or another about his article, I still found myself flipping to it first when I got each issue because it was an easy and most of the time entertaining read before I sat down to really pore over the adventures.
I think it's a shame that people are so petty. It was one lousy f-ing page at the very BACK OF THE MAGAZINE!!! Shame.
Behold the power of positive thinking! And kudos to Wil for bowing out graciously. Now, if we could only work the same sort of magic on Eberron...
It was one lousy f-ing page at the very BACK OF THE MAGAZINE!!!
Yes. Yes it was.
ASEO out
Behold the power of positive thinking!
Or, perhaps, negative...at this point, maybe its too much to ask to agree to disagree. As for the Eberron content...I don't know much about it, but I feel compelled to pick up a copy ot Sharn, City of Towers...
LG
I think it is too bad that Will Save is over. I did enjoy reading about games from the perspective of how it affects real life (and I personally don't care that Will did not play much D&D, gamers are gamers IMO). I hope his column will be replaced by something similar in flavor. I think we get all the strict game content that we can ever hope for every month, and that Dungeon should contain some other types of articles too, such as Will Save.
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I think we can all agree that the inclusion of Wil Save in Dungeon was a divisive issue. Regardless of which side of the fence you fell on (for or against the article) there are a number of people who were passionate about it.
Now, whether you supported it, or sought it's removal, it is gone. I don't think now is a good time to make personal attacks against one group or another. Some people are saying the "anti-Wil Save group" has won a victory. I don't think so. I think there were a number of legitimate criticisms raised about the article - and Wil really didn't think he could address them adequately.
If someone had taken the time out of their day to bash my work (over and over) the same way Wil Wheaton has been attacked personally and professionally, I don't think I could bring myself to read Dungeon or bear to hear it mentioned in my presence afterward. It's really got to hurt. Bad. I mean this is the hobby he grew up with and loves and got to write about it (not always directly, mind you) in the holiest of D&D magazines. Everyone has a different relationship to the game. Some can play a lot, others juggle more resposibilities and can only game infrequently at best.
Wil might be afraid of confronting his critics. I honestly believe that he believes most of them can't distinguish Wil Wheaton from Wesley Crusher. Still, I think he could have won his critics over. Assuming that those of us who disliked Wil Save are just really thick, he could have explained his intentions in really small words. Still, his columns were generally not about D&D. And my personal opinion is his article about encountering Steve Jackson written from the perspective of a character was the worst thing I've ever seen in any D&D magazine. Anyway, he could have attempted to defend those works, and seeing things from his perspective may have brought us around. However, it isn't the criticism he has received that has led him to withdraw from writing for the Magazine.
Wil is being mature about this. The Paizo staff have been professional the entire time. I'm actually very proud that they remained solidly behind Wil when speaking to the audience. Still, their job is to try to produce a magazine that comes as close to pleasing everybody all the time as they reasonably can. Certainly its an impossible mission, but they've been doing a good job. 75-80% of the criticism of Wil Save would have stopped if the articles were more clearly focused on D&D. The editors weren't wrong to request that Wil Save steer his column in that direction. And Wil wasn't wrong to decide he couldn't do that, particularly for the small amout of money he was apparently receiving.
So, my request is that we avoid attacking each other, and keep the conversation civil. Nobody won, and nobody lost. Sometimes, things just change. At this moment we can't know if they changed for the better or for the worse. I hope those of you who enjoyed Wil Save will try to be open-minded about what replaces it. I know I'll do my best to do the same thing. I gave Wil 1d4+2 issues to impress me, and from that point on I became a vocal critic. I don't know what's coming next. I have suggestions, but I don't know how possible they are. Still, let's look to the future together, and not bandy insults.
Please?
1 What was meant by the statement was that you are always a gamer. There is no such thing as a former gamer. I"m not sure where you got that convuluted reasoning from.
2. Proof that if it didn't have a d20 statistic you didn't read it carefully. HE said countless times in the article he had a serious love for D and D>
3. I'm sorry go to www.rpgnow.com and search their adventures. YOu'll find dozens. Then go to wotcs website where they produce some good ones from the past. Then mozy on over to www.drivethru .com where even their free ones are better than most of the ones from recent years. By the way this is just 1 of dozens of websites that have graet adventures. I'm sorry, I got past "oooh its colorful" after passing Mrs. Jeffries Second grade class. Do your research before commenting and you'll see what i'm talking about. The adventure's are ok at best. Some are great, don't get me wrong, but even the old stuff that aeg produced was better than a good portion of the stuff in the Dungeon magazine.
4. Yes I could read his blog but I love the leisure of reading it in my study or relaxing in the bath. His column was just worth paying for.
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3. I'm sorry go to www.rpgnow.com and search their adventures. YOu'll find dozens. Then go to wotcs website where they produce some good ones from the past. Then mozy on over to www.drivethru .com where even their free ones are better than most of the ones from recent years. By the way this is just 1 of dozens of websites that have graet adventures. I'm sorry, I got past "oooh its colorful" after passing Mrs. Jeffries Second grade class. Do your research before commenting and you'll see what i'm talking about. The adventure's are ok at best. Some are great, don't get me wrong, but even the old stuff that aeg produced was better than a good portion of the stuff in the Dungeon magazine.
You see, comments like this confuse me. If you don't think that the adventures are worth the cover price of the magazine, why subscribe?
I think the adventures in Dungeon are generally very good. I can't use every one of them, but they are quite obviously the central aspect of the issue. If you're not enjoying the adventures, the magazine shouldn't be for you. So, the parts that you are enjoying should have been put in a magazine like Dragon, which is about D&D in general, not adventures in particular.
At least, that's the way I see it.
If someone had taken the time out of their day to bash my work (over and over)..."
A professional writer needs a thick skin, pure and simple. I don't have any sympathy here. You put your stuff out there for the world to see, you need to be ready for ANYTHING they might choose to say about it.
I have followed the discussion, even while only "lurking" until today. While there were heated exchanges, and Mr. Wheaton as author was ocassionally conflated with Mr. Wheaton as celebrity, which he himself also did in Wil Save, the comments were hardly "vicious."
Umm... Then you didn't read the entire thread. There were some *extremely* negative personal comments made about Wil Wheaton the person. We're talking serious venom here.
As for replacing Wil Save with something "better" like Maps of Mystery... I've said it before, but I subscribed to Dungeon because I was so happy with the direction that Wil Save indicated for the magazine. While Wil Save itself hasn't always lived up to expectations (the "everyone hates Wesley" article and the in-character article in particular), overall I've greatly enjoyed everything about the magazine. Replacing Wil Save with some hard-core games mechanics thing (maps, rules, new prestige classes, crap like that) would indicate a very different direction for the future of the magazine, and it's a direction I have no interest in being part of.
Unlike some of the folks on this board, I'm not so completely uninspired that I depend on new prestige classes to be able to play a good game. I can create my own crunch material any time I want. The magazines and supplements provide handy sources so I don't *have* to create my own material, but what I'm really looking for in them is inspiration on a higher level -- why these prestige classes? Why these spells? Why this monster race? What prompted the creator to come up with this, and what was the process they used to create it? Why did they make the trade-offs they did? That's the kind of stuff that lets me create my own crunch material, which will tie in to my campaigns a whole hell of a lot better than 90% of the material out there. Seriously, take a look at some of the crap that's been passed off as "new material". New h*$@##!%~ is more like it.
Wil Save filled some of that role for me. It was that kind of material that drew me into Dungeon finally. Don't get me wrong, I know Wil Save wasn't perfect, and if it expanded it would have been really bad for the magazine, but overall I was happy with it.
If Wil Save is replaced with just straight-out crunch material, like a new map (ooh, wow, a freaking map, how bloody exciting), a new set of spells (hey look, it's *another* fireball in disguise!), or a new prestige class (maybe we can expand upon the Candle Caster! Yay! Now I'm going to go claw my eyes out, how fun is that?!)... If Wil Save is replaced with that kind of stuff, I suspect the rest of the magazine is going to also get more hardcore crunchy... And that's the kind of crap that I'm not interested in. I'll wait and see, but chances are, if Wil Save is replaced with hardcore crunch, I'll be cancelling my subscription.
If someone had taken the time out of their day to bash my work (over and over) the same way Wil Wheaton has been attacked personally and professionally, I don't think I could bring myself to read Dungeon or bear to hear it mentioned in my presence afterward. It's really got to hurt. Bad.
Exactly.
While I never had a strong opinion one way or another about his article, I still found myself flipping to it first when I got each issue because it was an easy and most of the time entertaining read before I sat down to really pore over the adventures.
I think it's a shame that people are so petty.
Well said.
You see, comments like this confuse me. If you don't think that the adventures are worth the cover price of the magazine, why subscribe?
I think the adventures in Dungeon are generally very good. I can't use every one of them, but they are quite obviously the central aspect of the issue. If you're not enjoying the adventures, the magazine shouldn't be for you. So, the parts that you are enjoying should have been put in a magazine like Dragon, which is about D&D in general, not adventures in particular.
At least, that's the way I see it.
The adventures are ok, but it's the articles that make the magazine and separates it. Without a humane article like Wil's the value of the magazine declines to me. I already have asubscription so theres no turning around now, but if something of the same quality doesnt replace that, I would reconsider subscribing again.
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1 What was meant by the statement was that you are always a gamer. There is no such thing as a former gamer. I"m not sure where you got that convuluted reasoning from.
Just because you play games doesn't mean anything you say is relevant to a D&D player.
2. Proof that if it didn't have a d20 statistic you didn't read it carefully. HE said countless times in the article he had a serious love for D and D>
The proof is in the pudding. He can say what ever he wanted to. He was unable to write about D&D in a manner that he felt was adequate to grace the pages of DUNGEON. He knew his limits and made a tough but right call.
3. I'm sorry go to www.rpgnow.com and search their adventures. YOu'll find dozens. Then go to wotcs website where they produce some good ones from the past. Then mozy on over to www.drivethru .com where even their free ones are better than most of the ones from recent years. By the way this is just 1 of dozens of websites that have graet adventures. I'm sorry, I got past "oooh its colorful" after passing Mrs. Jeffries Second grade class. Do your research before commenting and you'll see what i'm talking about. The adventure's are ok at best. Some are great, don't get me wrong, but even the old stuff that aeg produced was better than a good portion of the stuff in the Dungeon magazine.
Trust me, I scan the web for free stuff as much as the next guy. But the quality is rarely there, and is definitely not consistent. If you have particular gems that you have found that you think are equal to DUNGEON please list them so that we can all enjoy them
4. Yes I could read his blog but I love the leisure of reading it in my study or relaxing in the bath. His column was just worth paying for.
So hit print like you do with all the PDFs. He'll still cover the topics you love. And it will cost you less.
ASEO out
It's unfortunate that Wil Save had to leave under such a negative storm of criticism. I didn't have strong feelings either way (said the man from the Neutral Planet). The writing was decent, but it's true that it veered off into territory that had little to do with Dungeon or even D&D. Some articles were interesting, a few were awful. Dungeon needs an injection of human interest stories to make D&D seem relevant and alive, but I think Erik does a better job of it with his editorial.
Whether this is a good thing will be determined by what replaces it. It should still be a human interest article about how D&D is woven into the daily lives of regular people. The heart of this hobby is stories and adventures by regular folks, not statistics.
It seems to me that "gnash[ing] one's teeth and wail[ing] piteously" accurately characterizes the reprehensible behavior of the squeaky wheels who drove a fine writer from the pages of one of my favorite magazines.
The squeaky wheels are far from "on target" with respect to this paid subscriber. I find Maps of Mystery to be of absolutely zero value to my DM projects and, in fact, would rather see a reprint of the cover sans logos and text. At least that would give me an unobscured piece of artwork to show to my players.
Erik, you're doing a marvelous job with these magazines, and I honestly have no problem if you decide to publish a Map of Mystery in its place. But consider this post as a vote to ignore those squeaky wheels in the months ahead.
Hurm.
"To suggest that Wil Save pointed in a 'direction' that should now be repeated is to court disaster, IMO.
That's putting things mildly. I'd liken it to putting the fork BACK in the electrical socket after you regain consciousness following the first shock.
"My opinion - I find your editorial judgment with respect to Wil Save deeply flawed and I find your two-faced pronouncements on the subject offensive."
Aw, cut the guy some slack. He's not "on the job" over there. Every gamer needs to be able to blow off some steam somewhere now and again.
Besides, it's true. I do whine about things I don't like. Who doesn't? Especially on the internet.