Although I've only recently (about two years ago) become an actual subscriber, I've bought every issue of DRAGON since issue #42. I'm sure there are some people lurking out there who've been reading and collecting since Strategic Review...
I was too young to buy Dragon when I started playing in 1977, but I remember reading my brother's issues at the time.
First Dragon I remember buying was Best of Dragon Vol. 1, which was, according to the one on my shelf here, 1985.
Phil and Dixie aren't in the magazine any more, so check out the latest issues if you're interested. 300 was 2 years ago after all.
I was born in 1977!
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I was born in 1977!
Good for you.
That means you missed most of the 70's.
I started buying Dragon sporatically with issue 116. That issue featured an overview of an RGP game based on a TV show I had never heard of before, Doctor Who. It was love at first sight and the fact that a local PBS station was about to start broadcasting it in about six months kept me geeked for most of the summer. Thanks Dragon you introduced me to my favorite sci-fi show ever.
On the whole though I never really got into magazine because it never had any ICE Middle-Earth Roleplaying in it (my first RPG). I just picked up the ones with modules in them. Issue 100 was killer and when Dungeon came out I was in heaven. I finally did get into it because I started running games from the various "colored boxes." Right around 1987 was my high point in the magazine. In my never-humble opinion it was one of the best years of Dragon ever. Then Forgotten Realms became an 800lb. gorilla and my beloved Known World went AD&D - a system I dispise to this day. And that was the last you saw of me until 3.0. I didn't even know there was a second edition. ;) For a long time I hung out in the realms of DC Heroes (BEST SUPERS GAME - PERIOD), or in the classic World of Darkness with occasional forays into the D&D Rules Cyclopedia.
I liked the fact that multiple RPGs were included in the magazine once upon a time. I realize that won't be happening again but still it's a shame.
Great Green God
I stand corrected 100 was my first purchase. and apparently I should also include 1986 and the first half of '88 as my favorite years.
That would make Medesha 9-11 years old right about then.
Ah memories,
GGG
I started DMing in 1991. :-)
-Amber
I started reading Dragon in 1980, subscribed briefly from 82 to 83 and have purchased sporadic copies since then. I haven't purchased any since 3rd edition came out. I subscribe to Dungeon.
Looking at my Dragon CD archive, the 1980's were definitely the glory years of Dragon.
I don't have an opinion on recent editions, as I haven't read one and don't really plan to. Just running the adventures in Dungeon is going to keep my gaming group happy for years.
I wouldn't mind reading some of the old D&D magazines, but that Dragon Magazine Archive CD is pretty hard to find now.
If you're not a fan of the current Dragon, what's missing from it?
The only thing I really miss from Dragon Magazine are the interesting fonts and layouts. Everything feels too, I don't know, open in the new magazines. But like all versions of Dragon Magazine, it seems to just be a phase, and it'll pass soon.
"If you're not a fan of the current Dragon, what's missing from it?"
Stuff I miss:
Reviews.
Info on the industry as a whole.
Support for non-d20 games. Before I had the internet, I credit Dragon with expanding my horizons by introducing me to such "new" games as Tunnels & Trolls, Vampire: the Masquerade, and Amber Diceless Roleplaying.
Support for non-fantasy gaming genres. The old Dragon did articles on sci-fi roleplaying, horror roleplaying, espionage roleplaying, etc.
Fiction as a means of presenting game information, as in the old ecology articles.
Any good fiction at all, for that matter.
Good art. Dragon is getting MUCH better at this, though. The Dungeonpunk fad seems to be waning. I still wish they wouldn't let that hack who draws all his people with those hideous tiny pinched mouthes do so much work, though. I can't recall his name, but Christ is his stuff fugly.
Meatier articles. I haven't counted, but my IMPRESSION is that the average word count in a Dragon article has been declining steadily since the 80s. The "reading level" seems to be constantly adjusted downward as well, from a college/high school-level tone in the day to something that "sounds" more targeted at grade-schoolers now. More and more, I begin to sense that a given article has promise, only to find that it doesn't go "in-depth" to finish what it started, which leaves me perpetually unsatisfied.
Attractive layout. It just looks like everything else now. Dull. My imagination is stimulated just flipping trough an old Dragon, even if I don't read a word.
Dragonmirth.
Articles that toyed with core rules in meaningful ways and gave insight into the future of the game, as opposed to "Just Another Feat/Prestige Class/Whatever" articles (aka filler).
The old Dragon just had more diversity, more depth and more imagination
"If you're not a fan of the current Dragon, what's missing from it?"
Stuff I miss:
Reviews.
Info on the industry as a whole.
Support for non-d20 games. Before I had the internet, I credit Dragon with expanding my horizons by introducing me to such "new" games as Tunnels & Trolls, Vampire: the Masquerade, and Amber Diceless Roleplaying.
Support for non-fantasy gaming genres. The old Dragon did articles on sci-fi roleplaying, horror roleplaying, espionage roleplaying, etc.
Fiction as a means of presenting game information, as in the old ecology articles.
Any good fiction at all, for that matter.
Good art. Dragon is getting MUCH better at this, though. The Dungeonpunk fad seems to be waning.
Meatier articles. I haven't counted, but my IMPRESSION is that the average word count in a Dragon article has been declining steadily since the 80s. The "reading level" seems to be constantly adjusted downward as well, from a college/high school-level tone in the day to something that "sounds" more targeted at grade-schoolers now. More and more, I begin to sense that a given article has promise, only to find that it doesn't go "in-depth" to finish what it started, which leaves me perpetually unsatisfied.
Attractive layout. It just looks like everything else now. Dull. My imagination is stimulated just flipping trough an old Dragon, even if I don't read a word.
Dragonmirth.
Articles that toyed with core rules in meaningful ways and gave insight into the future of the game, as opposed to "Just Another Feat/Prestige Class/Whatever" articles (aka filler).
The old Dragon just had more diversity, more depth and more imagination
Most of my thoughts exactly. Thanks Yamo. The micro-article just doesn't do it for me (even in Dungeon). Where are those articles on real-world historical and literary paladins, or the witch class (probably on version 6.5) or how to generate and run a college of magic? Have attention spans become so short?
Maybe the whole retro thing will take root and '80's magazines will make a comeback until then I'll take my modules, critcal threats and backdrops from Dungeon and leave the rest.
GGG
I started DMing in 1991. :-)
-Amber
1984.
GGG
I agree with Yamo and GGG on this one, totally.
The old Dragon used to seem so meaty (especially pre-issue 150)-- long articles, smaller print, and less flash. It included great mini-games and modules, in-depth reviews, etc. You couldn't read an issue in one sitting if you tried.
Now the price has climbed and I flip through each issue at the stands but it seems like mostly tiny blurbs and 1-page articles. I desperately want my old Dragon back, but every month I sadly place the mag back on the rack. To coin a phrase, where's the beef? I bought my first issue (#42? it had a skeleton on the cover) on a whim in California.
FYI: At the expense of dating myself, I began DMing (although I was horrible initially!) in 1980-ish and I turn 39 today.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Scylla,
I don't think that's a very fair evaluation of Dragon as it currently stands. Sure, there's a section of 11 one-page articles, but just looking at the most recent issues, I see the following:
#332
Chromatic Dragons: Rage on Wings: 12 pages (with admittedly lots of art)
Touched by Madness: Eberron's Cults of the Dragon Below: 10 pages
Cutting up the Dragon: 8 pages
Ecology of the Kobold: 10 pages
#331
The Point of Pole Arms: A Comprehensive Guide: 7 pages
A bunch of other 6-pagers
#330
Enter the Far Realm: 17 pages (!)
The Umbragen: Shadow Elves of Xen'drik: 7 pages
Coming Home (short story): 8 pages
And the Demonomicon of Iggwilv in Dragon #333 is 15 pages long.
There was certainly a time when Dragon eschewed longer features, but that time has passed.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
As anyone ever did a serious comparison of average word counts in Dragon articles over the years? Pages can be filled any number of ways, I'm more concerned with how. More art, bigger margins and larger text can account for a lot.
Also, "stat blocks" and other rules info take up a LOT more room these days than they used to. I don't consider Dragon to be giving me the same value as it used to if an article describes three new monsters in the number of pages that used to accomodate five or six.
So I'm not convinced that the folks with the persistent "Where's the beef?" feeling are totally off. That perception has to come from somewhere, right?
Erik & Yamo,
My gut reaction doing a flip-through an issue or two back was not to buy the mag, and this is coming from a fellow who purchased a great many issues and patrolled gen Con auctions for old copies (ah, those innocent pre-Ebay days), so I felt it best to express how I felt. Maybe I glanced at the wrong combination of pages, who knows? (It's obvious from your various postings Erik that you truly care about the direction of both Dragon & Dungeon, so my comments weren't meant in a hurtful way. I've worked in publishing long enough to know what a thankless job an editor can have!) It just seemed like there were too few good-sized articles and far more of the quick-glance variety from my admittedly quick look.
Yamo, you're right too in that layout is a factor. (I remember a point not long after Dragon went all-color when almost unreadable combinations of weird fonts and bright backgrounds appeared; I thought the art director had gone mad after finally having all that color at his disosal.) Font sizes & such can mean a great deal. Remember the once tiny, tiny print used for Forum? ... I do, one of my letters appeared in what may have been 8 point type. I soon grew to love that small print however.
I'll pick up the latest issue & take a good, objective look -- this is one case where I'd really love to be proven wrong. To be continued!
"I remember a point not long after Dragon went all-color when almost unreadable combinations of weird fonts and bright backgrounds appeared..."
Did you ever read the first few issues of Duelist magazine? I swear they did stuff like solid blue text on a solid blue background, with the two only being a couple shades apart! At least Dragon never got that bad.
"Remember the once tiny, tiny print used for Forum? ... I do, one of my letters appeared in what may have been 8 point type. I soon grew to love that small print however."
Oh, hell, yes. Forum was like EN World, the WotC forums and RPG.Net all rolled into one back before the internet really took off. Too bad there's no sensible reason to bring it back now (which is why I didn't include it on my list of stuff I miss, even though I do miss it).
I think we can all agree we'd like our gaming magazines to contain no adds, have 7 point font, be at LEAST 5 mu's and simply have content after content after content...
The largest problems with the above scenario revolve chiefly around the necessity to SELL the magazine, and the corresponding necessity to PAY the employees.
As the gaming industry has been thrust more and more into the lime light (particularly as a result of the exploits of a young, four-eyed wizard or perhaps an overly adventurous hobbit...not to mention the birth of companies like Paizo!), it has become necessary to "mainstream" things a bit. Step the gaming world a little more into the professional world.
"Core" would get smaller and smaller if we never changed anything, and pretty soon, the only people buying Dragon would be the folks who have been "DM'ing since 1943" or whatever. You need to evolve the product with an evolving market.
I'm not going to go into how the market has changed or what the new need are, but my point is, give Paizo a break! Paizo did not take Dragon and Dungeon and ruin them or pervert them. Paizo took Dragon and Dungeon and saved them...otherwise, they'd be laying on the WotC cutting room floor next to Duelist and Sideboard.
Things change...D&D changed, gaming changed, the industry changed, and the magazines need to change along with it. NONE of these things changed because some corporate monstrosity said "screw the gamers! this is what we're doing now!"...they changed because sales were dropping, and you need to sell a product to produce it.
I accept that things have to change, but why do have to decline in quality at the same time?
I accept that things have to change, but why do have to decline in quality at the same time?
I think room should be allowed for the fact that this may be your (and others') *opinion* rather than factual.
"I think room should be allowed for the fact that this may be your (and others') *opinion* rather than factual."
Anytime customers express their opinions, a wise business operation listens. Opinion is "factual" and concrete in that sense that a business enterprise needs to court favorable ones or bad things happen.
I'm sure there's some good stuff in the new Dragon magazine, but I just can't get myself to pick one up.
I got a Dragon magazine on accident after bidding on an issue of Dungeon that I missed on e-bay. It just left a bad taste in my mouth---the new artwork--the colors---all the names I didn't recognize.
...and yes, that Dungeonpunk thing is just a total turn off. I realize that teenagers and 20 somethings spend money on gaming, but the new format just doesn't fly with me, and I'm spending more money on gaming now than I ever did 25 years ago. (mainly because I have a job)
I read the old Dragons from my CD archive and from my old back copies for nostalgia mostly....while listening to Saga, Rush and Triumph and wishing I had my 1976 Ford Granada back......anyone remember cars you could actually work on yourself?
I'm only half-way kidding. I subscribe to Dungeon, because I like 3.5 and the adventures are good, but the amount of "content" for 3.5 is just too overwhelming and I'm just going to stick to the 3 core books, probably for a really long time. I just didn't see enough in Dragon that would interest me, but I renewed my Dungeon subscription for 2 years.
"I realize that teenagers and 20 somethings spend money on gaming, but the new format just doesn't fly with me, and I'm spending more money on gaming now than I ever did 25 years ago. (mainly because I have a job)"
I feel that WotC and Paizo are really shafting the most important part of their market: The "lifers" who have been playing for years and years and well keep doing so long after the kiddies go back to their X-Boxes and Yu-Gi-Oh cards. We have the grown-up cash flow and the real long-term commitment.
Maybe the iconic wizard in version 4.5 will be a little British boy with glasses and a private school uniform who casts his summon spells with cards? I imagine that would work well enough until the next adolecent fad comes along.
Ah, well.
Okay, after a trip today to three major bookstores I finally got my hands on Dragon (#331), and…
Truth be told, it doesn’t look bad.
The polearm article is great. The green hag article is fine. A few of the other 6-pagers (as I believe Erik put it) aren’t bad either. I’m a big enough man to admit that, judging by this issue I hold, that there is some meat there. Maybe I saw to many 1-pagers (there are a lot) in the bookstore, maybe I was turned off by a large Eberron piece (not to start that debate here!), I don’t know. It’s not perfect, but no magazine is.
So I say to Erik and all, I stand corrected as regards article length. There’s some beef after all!
As far as criticism goes, I hear what you’re saying Robjbane, but I also disagree to a point. Things definitely must evolve, and I’ve been very patient with the changes (smiling at the “dragonpunk” type drawings that featured fighters with 8 earrings, etc.) knowing that all things change and change can often be good. There’s a point however where you risk disenfranchising your core audience and it can bite you … remember the “New Coke” flavor? Yamo is right in that the “lifers” have importance; they are probably the ones that kept the hobby alive during the era of CCGs. Let’s have a happy medium, mixing the best of the old with the new, that way we don’t lose the whipper-snappers or the old-timers.
As a fan of the magazines I simply want Dragon and Dungeon both to be the best they can be, while respecting that my personal wishes may well conflict with other readers' opinions. I certainly don’t look for a non-ad, 200-page magazine, but in a place of posted opinions I don’t mind throwing my 2 cooper bits into the fire. The message boards are a place for debate and critique, and pointing out what we, as readers, wish to see or what we feel could improve things can only help Paizo increase sales.
When I used to work in public radio I used to tell the new DJs, “Don’t play what you like, play what the listeners want to hear.” In this case, we’re the listeners, so telling Paizo what we like/dislike isn’t a bad thing, it’s more like free market research, and professional editors typically have tough skins (tough enough to bear our often repetitive and contradictory moanings anyway). As mentioned in my earlier posting, I acknowledge the efforts of Erik and his staff even while not always liking every direction the magazines take, and I don’t believe I’ve been overly harsh or disrespectful.
Side note: Your comment about Duelist made me laugh out loud Yamo; I still have the first 5 or 6 issues packed away somewhere.
Now if you’ll excuse me gentlemen, I must switch threads to see how the raging battle over the level of Eberron content in Dungeon is going…
Erik
You want to talk about decline in quality take a look at First Watch its a huge waste of space. In Dragon 331 its starts on page 16 and the next article doesn't start till page 22. First Watch is little more than ads and most of the stuff has little to do with D&D. Take a look at First Watch in 331 and tell what age range these things are aimed at and do they have anything to do with D&D
Twisted Fairytales Models "scare your friends with Miss Muffet's spider" do you really think toy spiders are going to scare adults?
I don't think anyone there actually believed any adults (apart from a few hardcore arachnaphobes, like myself) would truly be scared of the spider, don't be daft. They mentioned these because alot of their readers are more than likely collecters of anything related to fairy tales, nursery rhymes, fables, myths, and their ilk. If you aren't ignore that one little bit in the article.
Midnight Magic Music CD
"Listeners leave the dungeon behind and enter Haverghast family mansion" sounds by singer Lazy Lane?Did you have a beef with the music choice? Some people appreciate being introduced to new music they may use in their game to help set mood.
What does the Dragon Say, kid's books about the paranormal. Do I really need to say anything?
Kids books can be a great source of ideas for campaigns and adventures, don't knock'em, try being a little more open to new ideas.
Pop goes Manga
First these are comic books second you don't even talk about the comics you just plug TokyoPop.com. This is an ad!While I already was aware of TokyoPop, there may be nascent fans of manga who have yet to hear of this. Sometimes ads can be a good thing, if they advertise in Dragon I am more than willing to go and check out their site. You never know what you find. And as for you referring to these as comic books, you obvious haven't really taken a good look at the genre, manga is definitely different and offers some great artwork and good storylines. Instead of knocking things you don't understand, try getting more info on them.
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy the movie. Now was this movie even out when the article was written, if not how could Dale have seen it? If he has not seen the movie how could he recommend?
He may not have seen the movie, but anyone who is a fan would recommend this movie without having seen it. I would postulate that their is a large number of players, including myself, who are fans of Douglas Adams' work.
I can understand RPG stuff being reviewed or even novels but, SciFi movies, toys and kids books? Come on this is a waste of space.
Bah, learn to think outside the box. Anything can be used across all the genres, regardless of original source. You just have to be creative.
My responses are mixed into the quote, sorry.
Incidentally, I started Gaming when I was 8 (1984ish), and DMing the next year. Fond memories of carting my books over to friends houses to play.
To an extent, I like the short one page articles. They are easy to integrate into a campaign and easy to photo copy for reference.
That being said, I do have to admit a preference for the meaty articles. I learned a long time ago that you can only get something out of an article if you're willing to be creative. Very rarely have I been able to take an article and just plop its contents directly into a campaign of mine.
"Decline in quality since when?"
In fits and starts after issue 100 or so, but more or less steadily since 200. The current run is the best so far to co-exist with WotC D&D, but I just don't think Dragon delivers the same overall quality or quantity of material as in the 80s and early 90s (the specifics on why I outlined above).
"Let's ratchet this down."
I understand that you put a lot of yourself into your work and you seem like a great guy online, so please don't take my criticisms too personally. I'm simply commenting on the mag as honestly and directly as I can.
"This is an ad!"
Don't even get me started on A Novel Approach, which is hand-down the most abominable thing to ever soil Dragon. I feel like I need a hot shower after I sample this "column."
It's interesting that the reason most people agree that Dragon's old Forum column is extinct is that there's no need for now in this day and age when every self-respecting geek is getting his gaming discussion quicker and more efficiently from the internet.
Why, then, do we need product previews in First Watch? Shouldn't we also assume that these same geeks can get quicker, more timely updates on upcoming products that interest them through the same internet that makes Forum obsolete?
My theory: They take up a lot of page space and are a lot easier to write that a gaming article requiring some measure of creativity. I don't know if Paizo actually gets money or perks from the companies that make the products they plug, but if so I imagine that's the icing on the cake.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Why, then, do we need product previews in First Watch? Shouldn't we also assume that these same geeks can get quicker, more timely updates on upcoming products that interest them through the same internet that makes Forum obsolete?
By this logic, no magazines should run reviews or product previews ever. A curious standard to apply to only Dragon, and not to every other magazine in the universe.
Since there are plenty of D&D-compatible articles online right now, for free, why publish gaming articles in the magazine at all?
First Watch is meant to highlight items of potential interest to gamers. The game is _not_ just about rolling dice and collecting XP. It's also about Monty Python quotes and cool obscure movies and all sorts of other stuff that gamers have in common. First Watch is the section for that kind of chatter, and is meant to be an easy entry point into the magazine.
I admit a personal preference for the material in that section that directly relates to gaming (the Midnight Syndicate article in 331 qualifies, but the "twisted fairytales" action figures probably don't). The Mini of the Month highlights something useful to gamers, as does the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay preview (also in 331). Not all of our readers turn to the Internet daily for their news, and the magazine helps to inform these folks about new game stuff that's coming their way (and sometimes just about stuff the staff thinks is cool).
My theory: They take up a lot of page space and are a lot easier to write that a gaming article requiring some measure of creativity. I don't know if Paizo actually gets money or perks from the companies that make the products they plug, but if so I imagine that's the icing on the cake.
They _don't_ take up a lot of space. Four pages, in fact, which does not seem egregious. We don't get any money or perks from the companies we feature, aside from perhaps a sample of the product in general (which we often send to the author for analysis, anyway).
In any event, the First Watch section in 332 is more "gamer-focused," and is a better representation of the "ideal" form of the column.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
"What did you think of 'Giants in the Earth'?"
I liked it. The mag was adapting classic literary and mythological characters to D&D terms, not pushing the latest book that the D&D parent company itself had published. GitE could in no way be percieved as stealth advertising (at least the installments I remember...). Big difference, so far as that ephemeral quality known as "class" goes.
Similarly, I loved it recently when we were seeing game conversions of stuff from Dune. Eddy Greenwood's Better-off-Forgotten Realms are a far cry from Arrakis. :)
I was referring mainly to the current version of the column, which is just blatent shilling for WotC's latest fiction venture, IMHO.
"In any event, the First Watch section in 332 is more 'gamer-focused,' and is a better representation of the 'ideal' form of the column."
Cool!
By this logic, no magazines should run reviews or product previews ever. A curious standard to apply to only Dragon, and not to every other magazine in the universe.
Erik, all good points, all quite true.
Yamo, its apparent you and I do not see eye to eye, but to be clear, I don't think you're talking out of your arse on this. This is the way you feel, and the way I'm guessing most of your friends/peers and even a few other folks on this forum feel.
I think what's being missed is the conception that *any* audience group represents the majority...much less the "old-timer" or "hardcore" audience.
Erik, I don't think you're poisoning the magazine or sitting about twitching your mustache thinking "how can I screw my 40 year old loyals next"...well, maybe you are, but I'll bet you don't mean it. ;)
I do concede the point, though, that the overall hardcore content of the magazine has gone down. Not in quality, but in quantity. But that's because Dragon & Dungeon used to be marketing tools used to drive product sales of the same company, before they were focused on media wide-audience media.
To those against Dragon's current format...I hope you'll allow for the space that while you may indeed represent a portion of the audience of the magazine, you do NOT represent the majority of the magazine, and you do NOT represent ALL of the readers. In order for the magazine to continue to sell well so we all have something to complain about, it needs to appeal to as many people as possible while still trying to be economically feasible at the same time. Concessions have to be made. They are not concessions of quality, but are concessions of "you can't make everyone happy all the time"
In today's market, it is admirable to even keep a non-WotC, non-Upper Deck gaming industry company off the ground, let alone have it survive from year to year. The people involved are not simply motivated by lining their pockets, nor are they bumbling fools who have no idea what makes their readers happy.
All of these companies are doing what they can to keep producing the products they have to supply the industry they love.
If your artciles are only 12 pages instead of 28 pages because of it...adapt.
Flame away...
-Rob
*shrug* Generally speaking, I enjoy reading First Watch. There's always some interesting products there. Sometimes the color schemes chosen aren't the easiest to read - but I have really poor vision (including slight color-blindness on the blue/grey scale), so it might just be me.
Don't even get me started on A Novel Approach, which is hand-down the most abominable thing to ever soil Dragon. I feel like I need a hot shower after I sample this "column."
I'm sorry, you're putting A Novel Approach ahead of Silicon Sorcery in terms of being bad? While I will freely attest to the overall lack of useful content in both columns, Silicon Sorcery always struck me as being more hideous, more "stealth ad" than anything I saw in A Novel Approach, and few things outline this point better in my mind than the Chocobo conversion. Ugh. Almost canned my sub based on that whole issue...
Thing is, I've been wishing Silicon Sorcery would go the way of the dodo for years now. But it's apparently not going anywhere. I know they need to advertise, but I wish it weren't so blatant. (I realize that this post might not sound very sensible or sane, and it probably isn't. I'm still a subscriber, so I clearly didn't let it get to me, but damned if Sorcery dosen't tick me off sometimes...)
Honestly, I think I've developed some kind of psychosomatic sensory block. I don't even SEE Silicon Sorcery anymore as I flip around the mag. Ha!
I dunno. Quality of The Dragon has always been like sunspots to me. Highs and lows. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what is useful - I know that I've never had much use for a lot of the articles having to do with Forgotten Realms NPCs and all that malarkey.
I guess my favorite has always been the "Ecology Of ..." articles - when they're good. Sometimes they're just a steaming pile, but sometimes they are well thought out and have some meat to them.
Personally, I do miss the old "kitchen sink" approach, with all sorts of reviews and game articles, but the problem is, that worked fine when an RPG consisted of a 32-page booklet in a box set a la Gangbusters, Top Secret et al. Nowadays that's less practical, as the investment you have to make in any given game precludes the wide variety of gaming there used to be - I don't play 8 or 10 RPGs any more, not when each one requires the purchase of multiple rulebooks at $20-$30 a pop.
No, I think that the current D&D-only format is the right idea, and what I find personally useful is "generalized" articles - ones not tied to a specific universe or specific setting. Ecology of (insert monster here) - useful. Another article on some Forgotten Realms character's home and surroundings - not useful. And frankly, the articles that I've read trying to tie wacky books to D&D have been lacking in usefulness for me. Then again, I tend to be involved in long-running campaigns, and am unlikely to pull in themes from American Gods or Hitchhiker's Guide.
P.S. Started in '79, so I started with whatever issues of The Dragon were being published about then, borrowing friends' copies mostly. I think the earliest one I personally bought was around #40, give or take a few.
Calidore_Chase
First Watch is about Previews and News yet yourself seem to agree its ads.
"Sometimes ads can be a good thing, if they advertise in Dragon I am more than willing to go and check out their site"
So, tell me is what you read in First Watch a Preview or News or as I said its an ad?
As for "Nursery Rhymes" and kids books I don't know many adults who buy or read books which have the listed age of 9-12? Even if you do like nursery rhymes should this really be in an area for Previews and News?
Well, Previews and News is a form of advertising, regardless of what format it comes in. So I would have to say it's all of the above, and I still see nothing wrong with it. There have been quite a few occasions where they have previewed something that I later bought because of the preview.
You must not have any adult friends who have children. As for whether or not nuresery rhymes and their ilk belong in the magazine, well, I presonally don't care for them. But, I do recognize that their are other readers out there who may appreciate the fact that Dragon has taken a little bit of space to bring them information that they can use to introduce their children into the wonderful world of imagination.
I do not have children, don't plan on having children, and don't like other peoples children. But I'm not going to let a little bit of one small article ruin my enjoyment of a magazine that has repeatedly helped improve my enjoyment of a game that I love.
Hope I wasn't offensive. Have fun.
I started buying Dragon back around 1980. I dropped out of gaming for a while in the 90's, but got back in to it after 3rd edition came out. I decided to subscribe because of the huge discount one gets, compared to cover price. I think one of the biggest values for me, today, is the tie-in articles that relate to other WoTC products. For example, the recent Far Realms article was really great, and it complimented the Lords of Madness material very well. People who own LoM and like it probably loved that article. Other people may find it less useful. I also really like the new Eberron setting, and there have been several really good articles by Keith Baker that help add aditional detail not included in the books (lack of space, maybe?). People who don't like Eberron may not find this material useful, but those who do like it will probably think it's great.
GVDammerung,
Amazing post. I agree 100% except for the following:
"Dragon is 'the magazine of record' for the hobby."
I think it WAS, when it addressed the entire hobby, which is to say, games other than D&D on a regular basis. Dragon now is myopic with regard to the vast world of roleplaying. There is a lot more out there! This factor is to blame for a lot of the lack of true relevence that you attribute more to the internet and other d20 gamer material publishers. Why do I want a Dragon that shuts its eyes and plugs its ears and chants "La la la la I can't hear you" to avoid even admitting that the rest of this great hobby of ours even exists? If it wasn't for the occasional ad, you'd never know another system other than D&D/d20 even exists.
I think you're right on that Dragon right now is searching for meaning. Perhaps widening its focus to encompass the rest of the hobby again could help? It worked for over twenty years, after all.
"If you want to 'stay current' with the hobby, you need to read the Dragon, even if you may not be wild about a particular string of issues."
No, you don't. Dragon willfully ignores the hobby outside of D&D. And as far as D&D/d20 goes, EN World will keep you better updated in a more timely and detailed fashion than any issue of Dragon. For free.
Frankly, if Dragon wants to be all it can be, I recommend just making it a source of intelligent commentary, analysis, insight and pre-made game ideas for the hobby as a whole. That's what it was under TSR, in my opinion. TSR made many mistakes, but the basic model that took Dragon through the eighties and nineties was never one of them. That model is legendary and much-mourned within the hobby for a reason. Dragon since 3E has for me been one long, awkward and unneccessary effort to reinvent the wheel. Different editors have debuted with much fanfare their square wheels, triangular wheels, and so on, I wish one of them would realize that innovation is not a valid end unto itself and sometimes what worked works.
Whew!
...
Geez! How much virtual ink can one fanboy spill just to say: PUT IT ALL BACK LIKE IT WAS? :)
"I agree Dragon does not address the entirety of the hobby. However, I don’t think Dragon ever addressed the entire hobby, except in its reviews. Outside of those reviews, I think Dragon has always been fairly myopic."
There's always been a D&D focus, yes, but I remember plenty of articles for GURPs, Champions, Gamma World, Traveller, Boot Hill, Top Secret, Gamma World, Torg, Vampire, and many others. As well as articles that didn't address specific games at all, but rather whole genres and subgenres of gaming more generically. Hell, I remember a neat little article in the early 90s that was just about dice and the weird quirks and superstitions that gamers build-up around them. This is why I feel Dragon has narrowed its focus so much and why that's such a sad thing. Where is the magazine that embraces our whole hobby? Any one corner of it, even one as big a one as D&D, can stand alone in my opinion.
"I do not think that what once worked will work now."
Well, I'll make you a deal, then: Get Paizo to give it a try, and I'll buy you a Coke if it turns out I'm wrong. :)
Nah. I just kill time during lulls at work here. Paizo's is one of the few gaming related sites the company's web server software doesn't restrict access to. That pretty much explains how I got all these posts :)