The $60 price sounds high, but Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is only 192 pages, softcover, and $29.95, so the price isn't all that bad if it's 400 pgs+ and hardback.
Word. Here's the math.
Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (Softcover):
$29.95 / 192 = 15.6 cents per page.
Shackled City (Hardcover)
$59.95 / 416 = 14.4 cents per page.
Cheaper? For a hardcover?
Now lets talk about why this is awesome again. : )
Feeling... irresistable... urge... to... preorder now.
- rob
Now lets talk about why this is awesome again. : )
I'd agree, if it was not something that I already had.
For a DM who doesn't buy DUNGEON this is a great deal, at price pre page.
But If I had the chance to buy a $10,000,000 house for $1,000,000, I'd still have to pass because $1,000,000 is still to steep for me even though it is a great deal.
Still I'd like to hear how sales go, and I honestly hope they go very well.
ASEO out
Just a couple of side notes... we asked for it, we got it, we better buy it! :D
Seriously, I know several people who want the series, but can't get ahold of the old issues anymore, and this is preventing them from running it. Therefore, the hardback is a godsend.
And the reason World's Largest Dungeon isn't selling is that it stinks! For example, how do you solve a puzzle in it? Instead of having a clever puzzle, such as the Starry Mirror from AP1, your PCs make Int checks vs. a DC 20. BBBBBOOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNGGGG. Not to mention the poor editing, the descriptions referencing things that aren't there, such as saying there's a secret door there when none is on the map, not to mention saying the room past that door is 108, when 108 is on the other side of the map... and this is just section A!
Translation... WLD isn't worth $60, much less $100.
More later, got to run game!
Squid
Now lets talk about why this is awesome again. : )
I'd agree, if it was not something that I already had.
Oh, so you've already got the additional adventure by Chris Perkins, all of the stuff that was cut out from the the original Shackled City adventures, and an "aftermath" map of Cauldron??? Because if so, I'll happily buy those from you and take one of your barfing cats, too - they'll fit right in with my wife's.
But if you don't have all that extra stuff that is going to be included in the hardcover, then I'll pass on the cat and stick with my preorder. As someone who is a subscriber, has all of the Shackled City issues, and is almost done running the adventure path, I think that it's a great deal! Thanks Paizo.
I think I am in the minority here, but I like the fact that the adventure path is MINE! I took the time to collect all the individual issues, waited patiently for them, and now I have my own campaign which takes players from 1st to 20th level. I like the fact that my issues are "collectors issues" and are worth more because they are hard to come by.
Feel free to call me selfish, but I'm disappointed that the hardcover is coming out. I think Dungeon should keep the adventure path in the mags which will inspire more readers to subscribe and make the pages of Dungeon more coveted.
Just my two copper pieces.
Let the flames begin... Please be gentle...
I don't really see a problem with a price of $60, considering in The Land Down Under I have to pay $12 an issue for Dungeon, so the AP cost me $132 all up.
Mind you, I know that after freight and currency conversion and GST I'll be up for about $120 for the hardback, when it eventually changes hemispheres.
I think my mortgage will have a problem with that price.
What great news!! I remember having asked if they could do this for us some months ago, but I really never expected them to actually DO IT!! Now, here's what they need to do... Are you listening, guys?
Maps. We need maps... either a detachable map booklet, like in Return to Temple of Elemental Evil, so we don't have to constantly flip back n' forth to show where the PCs are. In addition to this, having some grid maps for the more elaborate rooms and cave complexes would be really wonderful. If they can't include them in the book, how about including a weblink that we can use to access a site so we can print our own? Something along the lines of the maps that show up in Dragon or Dungeon from time to time, or maybe some we can open with DunDjinni, for those who own that program.
Conversion charts. So many great campaigns out there right now, many of which are official D&D campaigns currently supported by WotC. Now I don't expect Paizo to print sidebars to convert the AP to Planescape, or Darksun, but we should definitely have some stat blocks or something for Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Eberron. In this way, the AP will be attractive to those who play in any of those campaign worlds without having to worry about converting a 400+ pg. book.
Another useful item would be D&D miniatures packs for published modules, including certain chapters of this one. Theme packs almost always sell well, and for those of us who like the right miniatures for the game we're running, something like this would be invaluable... imagine, if you will, Life's Bazaar pack: includes skulks, dark creepers, automatons, a grell, hobgoblins, a mimic, an otyugh, and a half-troll fighter! A Zenith Trajectory pack with several kuo-toa, a black dragon, a hydra, a dwarven defender, and a fiendish umber hulk! I'm pretty sure that 85-90% of those who buy the hardcover book would buy one of each of these miniatures packs, were they made available.
Either way, no matter what they do, I'm looking forward to the book... I will have already run the game up through the first three or four chapters of the AP by that time (we only play every other weekend, so it takes 2 to 3 months per chapter), so I will still have more than half of the book available to use for my campaign!! Nice!!... and if they include the miniatures packs, and the maps, I'd probably happily run it all over again for a new group! Thanks, Paizo!
The best news I got this week!
Thank you guys at Paizo, for AGAIN listening to the ideas and wishes of your readers!July and October, he?! I hate WATING allready!!!
I agree, Dryder, but whenever a compilation of older adventures have been collected into one package, WotC has always changed up the editing a bit to make it more comprehensible. Since they've already confessed to updating the entire book for 3.5, I'm certain that they will be doing some editing on this product. I don't think we have anything to worry about.
After all, they just run off the Dungeon adventures in a photocopier and send 'em to press, would they? :)
I've read this post with interest and have been considering whether I'd purchase the hardcover or not. I have all of the magazines, and my players are right now adventuring in Jzadirune. Will I purchase it? I would if it includes a few of the suggested enhancements mentioned above, for example:
1) Special areas and enhancements that were originally cut from the magazines (already promised to be included);
2) Map pullouts or, even better, online links to files with full-size grids that I can print out and use to run the adventures;
3) Sheets of counters? Someone mentioned miniatures above, but I'd love either some pullouts of counters in the hardcover or, even better, online links to files containing counter sheets (e.g. of skulks, dark creepers, Kazmojen, Tongue-eater, etc.) that I can print out and use. Using the existing artwork reduced to the appropriate size would be just fine, in my view.
These extras would definitely make it worth my investment, even though I do already have all of the modules!
Hurm.
i have been thinking about it for some time now if i will spend the money and i have desited that it depends on few things
1: how far i think the party will be threw the adventure if they are really close to the end i don't think that i will buy it
2: what kind of extras it will include
3: if i have any money to spair in july
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I certainly hope that WotC will back Paizo on this venture. What I mean is that I hope we won't see the ads only through Paizo, but WotC will begin to advertise and, fingers crossed, push the product on its D&D web site. Because a great many of us here are already subscribers, Paizo is getting the repetitive message, to some degree or another, "Already have 'em all, so $60 ... too high." I want to see Paizo succeed at this, and by doing so, I think that Paizo needs to hit the market that doesn't subscribe to Dungeon. How can it do that? By getting WotC to begin to push and advertise the product. When? NOW!
BTW, any word on slipcases? :D
Chief Technical Officer
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I don't really see a problem with a price of $60, considering in The Land Down Under I have to pay $12 an issue for Dungeon, so the AP cost me $132 all up.
Mind you, I know that after freight and currency conversion and GST I'll be up for about $120 for the hardback, when it eventually changes hemispheres.
Not so! If you buy it at paizo.com now, you get 10% off, plus it's over $50, so you automatically get the current "$5 off $50 or more" discount. Shipped price to Australia is thus under $70 USD, which is currently less than $90 AUD. (Assuming you don't get tapped for import duties.)
BTW, any word on slipcases? :D
Still working on it...
-Vic.
.
Oh, so you've already got the additional adventure by Chris Perkins, all of the stuff that was cut out from the the original Shackled City adventures, and an "aftermath" map of Cauldron???
No, I'll admit that I am probably missing about 30 pages from the 416 advertised. I also think that having the extra stuff is just the perfect thing to make this a great product. Just like Scourge of the Slave Lords, or the Silver edition D&D set that came with the previously unreleased "Dwarven Delve" adventure (Which I picked up alone off Ebay).
I'm also sure that if you take that $60 and divide it by the number of players, and the hours of play, then you are likely to realize what a great deal this is.
If you don't have the AP from DUNGEON, I'd say this is an absolute must have!
But $60 for one extra adventure, some cut scenes, and an extra map...
Still, I have to admit that this is something I'd like to have.
...and on the bright side, I was able to pick Greg V's pocket when he joined me for a game last Saturday. So I'm $32 and a Taco Bell Mild Sauce packet closer to putting this on my shelf.
ASEO out
...and on the bright side, I was able to pick Greg V's pocket when he joined me for a game last Saturday. So I'm $32 and a Taco Bell Mild Sauce packet closer to putting this on my shelf.
You lucky bum.... I'm still having the unable to sell blood and no hair problem!
The price of gaming books still shocks me... I miss the days when I could buy a good module for 6 bucks at K-Mart. Dungeon is about as close as I can get to that now. $60 for a book is a hard sell... and price does matter to me - it kept me from purchasing both the commemorative 30 years of adventure book and the limited edition PHB, but I think I will still be picking this up somehow. Though I suspect that if it wasn't coming out in July they would be out of luck... because of my birthday, I'm likely to either have the extra money, or receive it as a gift.
- Ashavan
Here's another way to think about it: if you had to buy all the old back issues to get the full AP series, it would cost $80. Of course, you'd be getting all the other adventures printed in those issues, not just the AP, but for anyone that missed those issues and wants the AP, the hardcover is a no-brainer.
For people that have played the AP so much that their issues are falling apart - the hardcover is obviously a more durable alternative.
The people that will have the hardest decision to make, I think, are people who are huge AP fans, but have more or less mint condition copies of all the back issues. MOST of the cost of the new book will be for duplicated material - but having it all collected in one place, updated, new maps, etc. will still be hard to pass up.
I'm hoping for the 30% Amazon discount to ease the pain.
:-)
...and on the bright side, I was able to pick Greg's pocket when he joined me for a game last Saturday. So I'm $32 and a Taco Bell Mild Sauce packet closer to putting this on my shelf....
Nice! You and Kev from Zogonia have a lot in common. Dwarves probably hate you too. :)
As a GM who is currently running Shackled City for three(3) different groups, I think this is just what was needed. Now, I just need to get the money together. Perhaps I can convince all my players to each give me $3 for the purchase...
Seriously, though, the idea a little further up this page of the minis packs corresponding to the adventure path is a great one. If this could be worked out somehow, life would be great. Wish it had been thought of earlier so Paizo could have already been working on it.
Nice! You and Kev from Zogonia have a lot in common. Dwarves probably hate you too. :)
Speaking of Dwarves. Here is the entro made by Greg V's Dwarven Bard in our game last Saturday.
"So there I was, just a sitt'n under this big ol' oak tree. You know how us elves are about trees. Well then it starts a pour'n rain like a stone giant take'n a pi...um...well, there I was a sitt'n and this ol' bolt o' lighting comes out a the sky and WHAM! Smashes me in the knog'n. WHAM! from nowhere! The I goes a fly'n WHAM! right int'a that oak tree 'member I said it was a oak 'cause we elves be know'n that kind a stuff. Man I hit so hard there was this WHAM! and man I still got the bark print in me forehead. The I fall back to the ground WHAM right on my head. It was the kind of hit that would'a cracked me helmet had it not been blown clear off when the lightning came WHAM and smacked me in the first place. man, I landed head first on a big ol' root WHAM. Still got a mark from that too, see if you look hear nest to this burned patch o' me scalp. Well anyway, I'm a laying there with smoke a roll'n out a me ears, which you might notice had the points blown clear off o' them, and me mates come on o'r and I be know'n something's wrong, cause they're all look'n like dwarves. Well the give me one look and be decide'n to put me down, so one o them gets this fry'n pan and WHAM! cracks me o'r the head with it. But that don't do the job see so he tries again WHAM! But that doesn't do it either, so WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM til the pan bends and I got one bleadn' head ache, So I sit up ant take the pan away and they all go off a runn'n and scream'n. I stumbles over to me mule and WHAM! damn varmint kicks me in the head knocks me clear off ma feet then blasted mule sits on me. I must'a been stuck there for a day or three. Mule finely gets up and have'n had some time ta think I says I gott'a write a song bout this. So be'n than me lads all turned int'a dwarves and left me with this blasted mule I think. Go some where nice n quiet. Dat's why I'm here in the swamp. Huckabee Leafbiter, reincarnated soul of the elven bard by the same name. And Dis is me mule Huckabee. He aint got no last name on acount of him be'n a mule."
It was a fun session.
ASEO out
What I'm most curious about at the moment is how much editing/corrections will be made based off of the messegeboard?
For example there are threads about an error in Ike's tactics, Fetor not using the new metamatic feat he alone posseses, Hookface being both male and female....
So James, are you using the messageboard as a guideline for changes in the hardbound edition? Is it actually possible that things we have posted may become part of the HC?
What I'm most curious about at the moment is how much editing/corrections will be made based off of the messegeboard?
For example there are threads about an error in Ike's tactics, Fetor not using the new metamatic feat he alone posseses, Hookface being both male and female....
So James, are you using the messageboard as a guideline for changes in the hardbound edition? Is it actually possible that things we have posted may become part of the HC?
Don't forget the Stormblades having illegal feats... (he said, being anal).
Having missed the bulk of the early part of this adventure, I'm pretty happy I'll be able to get it all in one volume with some little bonuses.
That beign said, what level party would start this? I might be able to time this into an existing campaign if it is high enough...
I will probably buy this. I began my subscription at the very end of the adventure path.
Rooster
That beign said, what level party would start this? I might be able to time this into an existing campaign if it is high enough...
One adventure takes characters from 1st level to 20th+/-.
Great concept, a total campaign.
ASEO out
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Creative Director
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There is much attention being paid to the comments on this message board. For example:
Ike Iverson's tactics will be fixed.
Fetor will have better metamagic choices.
Hookface is male.
I've known I would be starting work on this project more or less since our messageboards went live, and have been watching these boards in particular like a kenku to keep in mind of what needs a second look.
I don't think that I'll be making any drastic changes to the adventures based on these boards, though. Gottrod's not going anywhere, for example, and Tongueater isn't gonna gain the feral template. That's not because I think that they're bad ideas... on the contrary, most of the adjustments you guys and gals have come up with for the adventure path have been excellent. I'm just keeping to the adventrues as they were originally written because, for the most part, I don't want to change things around THAT much.
I'm not done with the project yet, though... so who knows what the future weeks might bring?
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Creative Director
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Don't forget the Stormblades having illegal feats... (he said, being anal).
The Stormblades are a weird case. They ended up being pretty important in the storyline, but their stats were actually never printed in a single magazine. Rest assured, this'll be corrected in the HC book. And in that time, any illegal feats will be tended to (as in drug out behind the Paizo barn and shot, to be replaced with new, Government-approved legal feats).
"Shackled City" assumes a starting group of new 1st-level characters, and should bring them up to 20th-level.
Well then, I'll just have to start another campaign then. Oh... darn... *smirk*
I'm actually new to DMing and I'm finding it really suits me! Just subscribed to Dungen today too.
I really hope that when this new book comes out that my party wil not be to far threw the AP because it sounds like somthing i will really enjoy however i really don;t want to buy somthing that i will never use or only use less than half of... i should slow down my party a little
Tongueater isn't gonna gain the feral template.
Can't blame a guy for trying. :>)
The book sounds great so far!
I just checked out the preorder page and the promotional PDF and ...
Hey! There are spoilers for my players in the description! Of course they all want to buy the book to run the campaign themselves one day, but now I will have to tell them to stay away from it until we finish.
We just finished Foundation of Flame and after defeating Vhalantur the PC's are wondering who runs the cagewrights. Well thanks for giving it away in the description that I am sure will go on the back of the book - " driven by the dreams of an insane demon lord" I am sure it will take my party about 0.2 seconds to figure out that this is Adimarchus. I know that Paizo needs to interest buyers in the new hardcover but do you need to give away plot elements in the books description?! It is hard enough keeping my players away from these message boards, but it will be harder to tell them not to pick up and read the back of the book or read the description on the pre-order page. And we are pretty far along in the campaign. What about groups whose players haven't even heard the term cagewright yet?
I just checked out the preorder page and the promotional PDF and ...
Hey! There are spoilers for my players in the description! Of course they all want to buy the book to run the campaign themselves one day, but now I will have to tell them to stay away from it until we finish.
I have removed the spoilers from the description.
Cheers!
- rob
I have removed the spoilers from the description.
Cheers!
- rob
You guys are awesome, thanks!!
I have removed the spoilers from the description.Cheers!
- rob
Impressive
-Bulette
Hmmm, if ASEO gets the APHC, he won't be able to say anything about Wil Save and the thread might go away. . .Go for the APHC.
Actually, I'd pay the $60 dollars, though I'd probably wait to see what internet retailers have it on discount. I bought the World's Largest Dungeon for only $68 from an internet source (new). You need to shop around on the internet ASEO.
Maybe we could pass the hat arround.
Pay a dollar, buy ASEO the Hardcover and get him to shut up about will save.
sounds like a fair deal to me.