I just had to write and thank the fine folks at Dungeon for giving us this added bonus in the latest issue. I don't know why it never occurred to me before but it makes perfect sense to do a write-up of a city and include it in the magazine. After all isn't a city the perfect place to set an adventure?
As if this weren't enough, we also get the first of a three-part adventure arc set in the city of Istivin. Brilliant! The last adventure path series was a bit long for my taste but this mini-maxi adventure is perfect.
Thanks for thinking outside the box. I hope you continue to feature these adventure locals and expand the idea to include other settlements, territories and planes.
I agree johnnype. The Istivin material was well done.
If you liked Istivin, you should try to get a copy of 114, which had a write up and adventure set on the class "lost world" setting Isle of Dread, and 109, which detailed the port city of Hardby. Both were excellent and offer great starting points for any D&D campaign.
It's an excellent trend in lieu of a hardcover setting book. Erik Mona certainly knows what Greyhawk fans want. All I can say is "keep it up, good sir."
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Hi all -
I was reading through Istivin today before class and thought that it was well written and made sense. I've always been very critical of Greyhawk authors that do not do enough research regarding their product and felt that the things that needed research or a proper reasoning for something seemed to have been done.
But that is what I expect with something for Greyhawk in which EM is attaching his name to. With EM's past as the OJ editor, AOL message board poster and so forth, it appeared that when he was making an assumption, he gave a reason for it and what basis he gave for that assumption.
With Istivin, the things that make a leap of faith, are fleshed out enough to grant the reader the reason for that leap. I haven't yet read the module aspect of it, but I think that the way EM's been breaking the articles apart has been very good. With the first portion just info on the city (or Isle of Dread, which was also in this format) and then the adventure which relates to the city is perfect. With Hardby a few issues ago, there was just the city and it's intrigues alone, no adventure. I liked that, but prefer this setup. And this is a great way to explore and expand the Flanaess. And with the maps coming out in the next 4 issues, I figure that this will be done quite a bit in the future.
All depending on EM not getting ANOTHER promotion. Being promoted to EIC of both Dragon and Dungeon will likely lead to better things, but soon Paizo will realize how good he is and ask him to head Dragon alone, leaving Dungeon to someone else. With that, they might be an fr fan. or worse, Ebberon.
Theocrat Issak
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Issak,
Dragon and Dungeon are produced by a team. I'm the leader of that team, but we've got several other editors and artists who make each issue happen. I don't plan to leave my supervisory role on Dungeon any time soon, but just in case I get hit by a truck, the magazine will be in the able hands of Mr. James Jacobs, who is probably my favorite working game designer and a friend of Greyhawk.
So no worries.
--Erik
So I have a question regarding the adventure set within Istivin in 117, and this thread is as good a place to ask that question.
There are a couple of encounters that say (I'm paraphrasing): "If the party is good or lawful, award XP as though this were a CR X."
Well - why would I only award XP if the party were good or lawful? What is it about those encounters that makes it impossible for a chaotic neutral party to gain XP?
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Creative Director
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So I have a question regarding the adventure set within Istivin in 117, and this thread is as good a place to ask that question.
There are a couple of encounters that say (I'm paraphrasing): "If the party is good or lawful, award XP as though this were a CR X."
Well - why would I only award XP if the party were good or lawful? What is it about those encounters that makes it impossible for a chaotic neutral party to gain XP?
Those encounters are focused mostly on role-playing; sure, there's some risk involved in rescuing a guy from falling statuary or breaking up a fight between leatherworkers, but for an 11th level party, the risk is so slight that it wouldn't even register as an XP award.
One of the themes in the Istivin Campaign Arc is combating the chaos and evil in the city. Therefore, lawful acts and good acts (such as saving citizens from harm or preventing fights) help in their own small ways to combat the Malgoth's influence as much as killing his monster minions does. In addition, since these encounters are mostly role-playing encounters, you should award lawful and good PCs for roleplaying their characters well. An evil creature shouldn't gain XP for saving a commonor from a falling statue. A chaotic creature shouldn't gain XP for stopping a bar brawl.
Of course, that said... the implication is that if an evil character uses telekinesis to make sure that falling statue hits and kills a poor commoner, or if a chaotic character does something to make sure that the bar brawl grows out of hand and involves all the drunkards in the bar, that those characters should get XP awards for roleplaying as well. Basically, I didn't want characters who roleplayed out of their alignment or character personality to get an XP award for the encounter, just as I wouldn't want a character to get XP for failing to defeat a monster in combat.
So, long story short, those unsual ad-hoc XP awards were an experiment. In the future, I fully intend to put in ad-hoc award suggestions to support strong roleplaying, but I'll word them less specifically so that the evil and chaotic (or even neutral) characters don't get left out.
Hmm... hope I didn't ramble too much in this reply...
I only had a short time to peruse 117 in the Shop but from what i read, i will definitely be buying 117 (forgot my wallet doh!). A thoroughly professional job.
Frush O'Suggill, I did a little dance in the shop when i read that name. Very first Character I ever played in AD&D (He was a pre-generated PC in G1-3 Against the Giants, as I'm sure lot of you know). It's little nod's to the past like that, that make me all warm and fuzzy inside. Bring on the rest of the gang, Fonkin, Roaky, Faffle, Beek et al as well. I'd Love to see what the old crew are upto these days.
I especially love the art that goes with Greyhawk article, didn't read the artist name but I know find his art synomonous with Greyhawk, especially after his peerless work in Dragon on Greyhawk related articles (Kalman Andrasofszky?).
The article struck me as being of calibre suitable to a fully fledged accesory as opposed to a Dungeon article (not meant as a backhanded compliment by any means). 10 out of 10. The price of teh DUngeon issue is worth it for this article alone IMO. Kudos to everyone involved.
Now I have to find an excuse to get an International Sub for Dungeon now, as well as Dragon.
Nope, you didn't ramble too much James. :)
I suppose I took issue with the implication that a Chaotic Neutral (as an example), couldn't have a clear motivation to save the commoner from the falling statue, or that he couldn't have a desire to prevent two people from murdering one another.
I'm all for granting XP for good roleplaying. I give out plenty of it in my games. I suppose the reasons you gave above make sense to me - I'm just not sure I completely agree with them.
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Creative Director
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Yup. If a Chaotic Neutral character's personality and roleplaying justify his actions in saving a commoner or stopping a bar fight, I'd certainly give him as much XP as a paladin who does the same.
It's probably better to just list an Ad-hoc XP award for completing a roleplaying encounter without singling out alignments, in any case. You probalby won't see something like that happen again in Dungeon, is what I'm saying.
And just so it's clear -- I really enjoyed both aricles on Istivin so far! It was just that one thing that struck me as... odd (which, I suppose, is rather fitting for the city :) ).
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i know this was a greyhawk adventure but still i will modify it for my forgotten realms campaign all the same by making the malgoth an ascept of Shar in her attempts to create a shadow weave mythal within the city of silverymoon's own mythal,corrupting it slightly and affecting its citizens. For the voice of malgoth, i will use Alustriel's consort,Larlake(from the realmslore downloads at the WOTC website). The frost giant cleric who has the artifact the players will look for is gerti thorvaldottir(?).
Frush O'Suggill, I did a little dance in the shop when i read that name. Very first Character I ever played in AD&D (He was a pre-generated PC in G1-3 Against the Giants, as I'm sure lot of you know). It's little nod's to the past like that, that make me all warm and fuzzy inside. Bring on the rest of the gang, Fonkin, Roaky, Faffle, Beek et al as well. I'd Love to see what the old crew are upto these days.
When you say Beek are you refering to Beek Gwenders of Croodle (I think that was his name), the Half-Elf Ranger pregen from against the giants? That was my first character and a large part of why I love rangers so much. Does he show up anywhere? What ever happened to him?
When you say Beek are you refering to Beek Gwenders of Croodle (I think that was his name), the Half-Elf Ranger pregen from against the giants? That was my first character and a large part of why I love rangers so much. Does he show up anywhere? What ever happened to him?
I sure am. Alas he does not appear anywhere the Istivin article. heh pulled out Against the Giants from the attic. Laughed to see that Frush is still lugging around the same gear from that module!
I noticed not all the locations on the map are mentioned in the article. Were they cropped for space reason or never written up?
If they were written up, any chance of them bein avaliable somehow? Like a web enhancement or something?
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Creative Director
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Not all of the locations on the Istivin city map or the Istivin Hinterlands map were written up. Some of the locations are detailed in the second and third installments of the Istivin: City of Shadows Campaign Arc, but many are undetailed and are left to the DM to develop as he sees fit.
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Hi all-
As is so often done, can Greg V. post (either here or on CanonFire!.com) any Istivin City information that was cut from the article? This would be helpful for the City itself, as always having a fleshed out city is nice to have and likely things that Greg V intended to have touched upon might have been cut. Any additional flavor notes or portions that were cut or even that were not submited but are on your drafts that may make nice message board enhancements.
Thanks-
Theocrat Issak
Greg -- thanks for the info on the missing Dwarven Court. My group was looking at the maps this weekend (we sliced 'em out of the PDF, and one of the players blew 'em up to 8.5x11 and laminated them), and noticed #23 was missing.
Two related questions:
-Where's #8 (the Gryphon's Arms, an expensive inn) on the map? It also appears to be MIA.
-What exactly _is_ the Dwarven Court? :)
Great article, BTW. One party of PCs I GM for are headquartered near Istivin, so I'm loving the article & the adventures.
Thanks,
That's great, Greg.
(The reason I asked is that my PCs are based nearby Sterich, and it has been established that there is a dwarven temple in Sterich. The Dwarven Court will do fine as a stand-in; the dwarven war-priests have just converted part of the Court . . .)
I just started DMing this campaign arc on Sundays and so far it's been amazingly fun. Kudos!
But...tigers? As random encounters? I'm from Canada and was picturing a northern Alberta farmland/plains/praries sort of climate...the tigers took me by surprise. Which is bad, cause then they can pounce. Ow!
-Amber S.
I just started DMing this campaign arc on Sundays and so far it's been amazingly fun. Kudos!
But...tigers? As random encounters? I'm from Canada and was picturing a northern Alberta farmland/plains/praries sort of climate...the tigers took me by surprise. Which is bad, cause then they can pounce. Ow!
-Amber S.
Think SIBERIAN tigers... <grin>
I ran the GDQ 1-7 in FR 'back-in-the-day' and it's going to be great having some old names resurface when we play the entire trilogy. One of the PC's who survived the trip into the Abyss is actually going to provide the hook for the current group.
Running into Algorthas should be fun. I think I'm going to replace Verbane with Lashton, so a whole new group of PC's can hate this guy. Basically he's still stuck as a bureaucrat in a backwater, being close to power, but not holding it directly.
Another bit I think will add some color will be having the name 'Johann' engraved in Surfrira's axe...that she obviously recovered at some point. Be an in-game way of showing the connection. I think I'll have the PC's pass through a mashed town, the one where Johann died, and later Surfrira razed in a rage.
I ran the GDQ 1-7 in FR 'back-in-the-day' and it's going to be great having some old names resurface when we play the entire trilogy. One of the PC's who survived the trip into the Abyss is actually going to provide the hook for the current group.
Totally agree with Berkal, its a great bit of writing and a superb tribute to the old giant and descent series, having the action return back to the city surface at the end for the gripping finale is something I cant wait to run.