Magic Missile vs Mirror Image?

In first edition magic missile bypassed the images, it is not clear in second edition from the rules if it is the same.

It automatically hits and deals 1d4+1 force damage.

Any attack that would hit you has a random chance of hitting one of your images instead of you.

Since Magic Missile lacks the Attack Trait, I don't believe that it is affected by Mirror Image.

In PF1 I would've had zero doubts, like you.
Yet people have argued (somewhat successfully) that Concealment applies to Magic Missiles, so I have to wonder if this would fall in the same category. One trouble is sometimes "attack" is a formal term as in the "Attack Trait" and sometimes it's simply the most natural language. Yet Paizo's been pretty good about precise language for the most part and since Mirror Image doesn't explicitly mention spells (like Concealment does), I'd say it doesn't work for any spell lacking the Attack Trait.

In PF1 I would've had zero doubts, like you.

Yet people have argued (somewhat successfully) that Concealment applies to Magic Missiles, so I have to wonder if this would fall in the same category. One trouble is sometimes "attack" is a formal term as in the "Attack Trait" and sometimes it's simply the most natural language. Yet Paizo's been pretty good about precise language for the most part and since Mirror Image doesn't explicitly mention spells (like Concealment does), I'd say it doesn't work for any spell lacking the Attack Trait.

From CRB page 618:

Just in case there is some confusion why Concealment and mirror image aren't necessarily the same, instead of referring to unnamed other threads.

I think magic missile and mirror image fail to interact, much in the same way that fireball or charm person and mirror image would fail to interact.

I also think neither spell specifying whether sending 3 missiles at a mirror imaged target would be treated as all 3 hitting 1 thing (whether image or actual target) or the 3 needing to be checked independently to determine what they hit is enough reason not to try and reconcile "automatically hits" with "attack that would hit you" to cause some kind of interaction between magic missile and mirror image.

Castilliano wrote:

Just in case there is some confusion why Concealment and mirror image aren't necessarily the same, instead of referring to unnamed other threads.

And to clarify, Magic Missile ignores concealment.

HammerJack wrote:

Just in case there is some confusion why Concealment and mirror image aren't necessarily the same, instead of referring to unnamed other threads.

And to clarify, Magic Missile ignores concealment.

It doesn't say that in the spell description, so where does it say it?

The best argument I know of for that would be to say that the line "it automatically hits" in the magic missile spell description is a specific rule that overrides the general rule of the concealed condition.

The best argument I know of for that would be to say that the line "it automatically hits" in the magic missile spell description is a specific rule that overrides the general rule of the concealed condition.

That.

I disagree. If you fail your targetting, then we don't care what Magic Missile hits, it's just not the target.

HammerJack wrote:

Castilliano wrote:

Just in case there is some confusion why Concealment and mirror image aren't necessarily the same, instead of referring to unnamed other threads.

And to clarify, Magic Missile ignores concealment.

I'm confused. This is the exact opposite of what the post actually said.

Quote:

Concealed

While you are concealed from a creature, such as in a thick
fog, you are difficult for that creature to see. You can still
be observed, but you’re tougher to target. A creature that
you’re concealed from must succeed at a DC 5 flat check
when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect.
Area effects aren’t subject to this flat check. If the check
fails, the attack, spell, or effect doesn’t affect you.

So, Magic Missile is a Spell. So you make a DC 5 Flat Check when trying to target a Concealed Target. If you fail the Flat Check, the Spell fails. It doesn't miss, it fails.

Mirror Image affects Magic Missile unless you can see through the illusion.

Quote, 1st line of Magic Missile:
"You send a dart of force streaking toward a creature that you can see."

Which one is it going to hit? If you can't see which one is real, the missiles aren't going to identify the real one for you. Your best bet is to send a magic missile against each image. It will automatically hit each one you target. That way you destroy all the images.

I see where people are coming from in their arguments to the contrary, but if you read the P2 text, this is fairly clear. For Magic Missile to ignore Mirror Image it would also have to have a greater anti-illusion power baked in, and it does not. It requires sight and does not auto-target:
"You choose the target for each missile individually." You choose, not the spell.

Mirror Image affects Magic Missile unless you can see through the illusion.

Quote, 1st line of Magic Missile:
"You send a dart of force streaking toward a creature that you can see."

Which one is it going to hit? If you can't see which one is real, the missiles aren't going to identify the real one for you. Your best bet is to send a magic missile against each image. It will automatically hit each one you target. That way you destroy all the images.

I see where people are coming from in their arguments to the contrary, but if you read the P2 text, this is fairly clear. For Magic Missile to ignore Mirror Image it would also have to have a greater anti-illusion power baked in, and it does not. It requires sight and does not auto-target:
"You choose the target for each missile individually." You choose, not the spell.

That's not how Mirror Image works though. It doesn't add any new targets, it simply adds an effect to the caster. You can't individually target the images.

Magic Missile isn't an Attack. Mirror Image only affects Attacks. Sure it sucks if you get hit by Magic Missile, but it's great that Fireball doesn't destroy your images.

I see what you're saying, but referencing the Mirror Image text:
"Any attack that would hit you has a random chance of hitting one of your images instead of you."

It says "any" which is really specific language. You can argue Magic Missile isn't a formal "attack" by one of the index definitions. I have to give you that, but I think trying to argue that is picking and choosing from the two spells' text. I don't know, maybe I'm doing the same, but I would let Mirror Image defend against Magic Missile like any other attack unless I heard official clarification to the contrary.

I was reading Fireball and trying to better understand the spell "Attack" trait and happened to look at Finger of Death beside it. It doesn't have the Attack trait, but I wouldn't let Mirror Image defend against it, so why would I let Magic Missile? I guess because it seems so physical and logical. I think my mind has changed.

I disagree. If you fail your targetting, then we don't care what Magic Missile hits, it's just not the target.

You do remember how it worked in Pathfinder 1, right?

SuperBidi wrote:

I disagree. If you fail your targetting, then we don't care what Magic Missile hits, it's just not the target.

You do remember how it worked in Pathfinder 1, right?

Anything less than total concealment was unaffected by Magic Missile.

That is common knowledge.

It is also not relevant.

You do remember how it worked in Pathfinder 1, right?

Not relevant.

The best argument I know of for that would be to say that the line "it automatically hits" in the magic missile spell description is a specific rule that overrides the general rule of the concealed condition.

That's not a very compelling argument given that the concealed condition is entirely about whether or not you can be targeted, not whether or not you can be hit.

Magic missile specifies "...a creature that you can see" and concealed specifies "..you are difficult for that creature to see." (emphasis mine), and then continues to detail what that means by mentioning a check you must pass in order to target a concealed creature.

Automatically hitting your target is irrelevant if you don't have a target.