The spell is, as said, Effortless Armor. Now, if you calculate the price with the formula, you get 24k gp for a continuous spell at CL 3. But if you take a elven chain mail, it cost only 5k. I know that the elven chain is non magical, but it seem to me that 24k is really high. Considering the price of elven chain, and taking into account that an effortless Armor continous spell give fewer advantages than elven chain, how much do you think it could cost?
This falls under the too good to be priced department.
24k is a BARGAIN for being able to apply something like this to any heavy armor. That blows away the comparison to elven chain mail.
The other thing I really don't like about this is that it essentially buys an important class feature of the Fighter and reduces it to a cash value that any other martial can take up.
I'm not agree. At the lower spellcasting level a medium armor with a similar spell is almost like a mithral armor, but without a raised dex bonus, a reduced spelcasting failure and with no weight reduction, as well as an armor check penalty reduced by 2 (1 for perfection)against the 3 points of a mithral armor. And the mithral armor is not even magical. As a medium mithral armor can be buyed for about 1/5 the cost of a medium armor and it provides a greater benefit (a mithral chain mail is considered light for all pourposes, a rogue can use it without losing class features), so it doesn't seems to me that I'm stealing something to a fighter. The fighter is not bound to the armor he choose, if he wish to change it, he'll do and still go at max speed and really low armor check penalty. I'm not sure what you're pointing: a Ring of Evasion cost 12,5k gp, and nobody feels like, as far as I know, reduceing to a cash value an important class feature.
I'm not neccessarily keen on the Ring of Evasion (and neither are all of the devs for that matter), Just because it's in the book doesn't mean I approve of it, I'm just not going to crusade on it.
I see. So, just in case, if you would price it, what price you would give?
(I still nobody complain about the existence of ring of evasion, though :))
I guess I'll have to tell James Jacobs that he's a "nobody".
In fact, I've never heard or read JJ complains about that... Now that I know he complained, I can say that I know somebody that complain :)
I would have one price for putting it on medium armor, and another price for heavy armor. For the medium armor mithral is a good starting point, and adjust from there.
PS:I do think it should cost more than mithral.
I agree with Wraith in that this is not a one-price enhancement - it is a minor benefit for light armor and a significant benefit for medium and especially heavy armor.
You could make it the equivalent of a +1 bonus for light armor and +2 for medium and heavy armor, I suppose. I'll put some thought into this and edit my post later.
Edit: Right, let's see what we can do.
Consider the actual benefit provided by the spell at CL 3:
- You lose all movement penalties from wearing armor.
- Your Armor Check Penalty improves by 1.
Then consider Mithral:
- Your armor counts as one category lighter, though you still require the correct proficiency. This change will alter your movement speed appropriately.
- Your Armor Check Penalty improves by 3.
- Your maximum dexterity modifier improves by 2.
- For Light Armor, 'effortless' translates into nothing more than -1 ACP.
- For Medium Armor, 'effortless' translates into -1 ACP, and you move at 30 feet instead of 20 feet (assuming you're medium size).
- For Heavy Armor, 'effortless' translates into -1 ACP, and you move at 30 speed instead of 20 feet (assuming you're medium size), and you can run at full speed instead of 3 times your normal movement speed.
- For light armor this is an effect so minor I probably wouldn't bother statting it out, instead referring the player to Darkleaf Cloth. If I had to I'd put the price at a few hundred gold, no more.
- For medium armor, the benefit is similar though less powerful than Mithral. I'd price it somewhere between 2 and 3 000 GP.
- For Heavy Armor, the benefit is only somewhat similar to mithral - mithral full plate still moves at 20 feet, though it runs at x4. The +2 max dex cap from mithral is more useful the lower the cap is, so heavy armor benefit more from Mithral. In short, I do not believe this enhancement is as valuable as Mithral heavy armor. I'd price this somewhere between 6 and 8 000 GP for heavy armor.
So in summary:
Effortless Light Armor: should not be statted as the effect is too minor.
Effortless Medium Armor: Approximately 2-3000 GP.
Effortless Heavy Armor: Approximately 6-8000 GP.
For reference I point you to the Armiger's Panoply (wrist slot, 7,200 gp) from the Knights of the Inner Sea book.
Expeditious Armor costs 4000gp. The OP ability is better in that it is always on, instead of 3/day, since unlike say, a coombat bonus, an increased speed can be good all day not just in combat. However EA also is an enhancement bonus, so I can increase my max speed with it.
A good item to look at are the Boots of Striding and Springing (BSS). BSS are similar in that they increase your speed by 10, but are enhancement bonuses so they don't stack with Fast Movement or Haste, so OP is better in that respect, but not that much better since it can't increase you max speed. Additionally, you are taking an ability from it's traditional slot (feet) and putting it on a non-traditional slot (armor). This is a red flag according to UCamp.
I would say that it should cost about 10k or a +2 enhancement bonus on armor, and should be limited to medium or heavy armor only.
Additionally, you are taking an ability from it's traditional slot (feet) and putting it on a non-traditional slot (armor). This is a red flag according to UCamp.
Uh? Wait, Effortless Armor is a spell made for armor, so I can't see your point. I mean, Effortless Armor has an effect no armor, so I don't understand why it would be a non-traditional slot. With effortless armor, I remove the movemente encumbrance to armor, I don't increase my speed.
I edited my previous post with a cost breakdown. My opinion only, of course :).
Karg, is this the weightless enhancement you had in mind?
I don't recall it being that rediculous, but it's been years. And I don't think it was 3rd party
Gotcha. I really wish 3.5 had developed their SRD the way Pathfinder did, I'm having a hard time finding the armor quality.
- For Light Armor, 'effortless' translates into nothing more than -1 ACP.
- For Medium Armor, 'effortless' translates into -1 ACP, and you move at 30 feet instead of 20 feet (assuming you're medium size).
- For Heavy Armor, 'effortless' translates into -1 ACP, and you move at 30 speed instead of 20 feet (assuming you're medium size), and you can run at full speed instead of 3 times your normal movement speed.
- For light armor this is an effect so minor I probably wouldn't bother statting it out, instead referring the player to Darkleaf Cloth. If I had to I'd put the price at a few hundred gold, no more.
- For medium armor, the benefit is similar though less powerful than Mithral. I'd price it somewhere between 2 and 3 000 GP.
- For Heavy Armor, the benefit is only somewhat similar to mithral - mithral full plate still moves at 20 feet, though it runs at x4. The +2 max dex cap from mithral is more useful the lower the cap is, so heavy armor benefit more from Mithral. In short, I do not believe this enhancement is as valuable as Mithral heavy armor. I'd price this somewhere between 6 and 8 000 GP for heavy armor.
Hmmm. I thought making it at 5th CL, to decrease ACP by 2. In this case, how would you rate it?
Hmmm. I thought making it at 5th CL, to decrease ACP by 2. In this case, how would you rate it?
- For Light Armor, 'effortless' translates into nothing more than -1 ACP.
- For Medium Armor, 'effortless' translates into -1 ACP, and you move at 30 feet instead of 20 feet (assuming you're medium size).
- For Heavy Armor, 'effortless' translates into -1 ACP, and you move at 30 speed instead of 20 feet (assuming you're medium size), and you can run at full speed instead of 3 times your normal movement speed.
- For light armor this is an effect so minor I probably wouldn't bother statting it out, instead referring the player to Darkleaf Cloth. If I had to I'd put the price at a few hundred gold, no more.
- For medium armor, the benefit is similar though less powerful than Mithral. I'd price it somewhere between 2 and 3 000 GP.
- For Heavy Armor, the benefit is only somewhat similar to mithral - mithral full plate still moves at 20 feet, though it runs at x4. The +2 max dex cap from mithral is more useful the lower the cap is, so heavy armor benefit more from Mithral. In short, I do not believe this enhancement is as valuable as Mithral heavy armor. I'd price this somewhere between 6 and 8 000 GP for heavy armor.
Hm...
I'd probably still not use a Light Armor version of the enhancement, since Darkleaf Cloth still does the same thing but better.For medium armor and heavy armor I might add on 500 GP or so to the previous cost estimates. The ACP bonus is fairly minor overall, to me the real attraction of this enhancement is avoiding the speed penalties of medium and heavy armor. That said I would probably implement some kind of additive formula for the ACP bonus - an "Effortless" Full Plate with no ACP should be fairly expensive.