Hey Kelne, I really dig the Wolfguard idea a lot, so anything else you want to make up about them, feel free to do so and I'll go along with it. I can fill in the blanks if you'd prefer, but it's your idea so I'll defer to any fleshing out you'd like to do, first.
Yeah, the Oriental themes kinda muck it up a bit. Still, there's a paladin of Shelyn that might work. Mm. I'll keep it in mind.
And yeah, it's a little crazy. Mostly I guess I just like to game. My other two hobbies are my full-time jobs, so this is basically my only actual hobby. :-)
Pretty similar here! But I find GMing a PBP quite difficult, your game and DM Barcas' and others though are helping me improve I think!
Pretty similar here! But I find GMing a PBP quite difficult, your game and DM Barcas' and others though are helping me improve I think!Yeah, the Oriental themes kinda muck it up a bit. Still, there's a paladin of Shelyn that might work. Mm. I'll keep it in mind.
And yeah, it's a little crazy. Mostly I guess I just like to game. My other two hobbies are my full-time jobs, so this is basically my only actual hobby. :-)
Yeah, Barcas is amazing. His level of organization is pretty sterling, I'm learning a lot from that and it's making my current LFP a lot easier.
What are your threads? I'd love to check 'em out!
In terms of niche preservation, we've got:
Arcane Blasty = Karthan
Sneaky = Jorzan and Karthan (and Agon)
Melee Butt Kicking = Kelne and Justahl
Secondary Melee = Jorzan and Tenel
Ranged = Karthan, Agon
Without Agon, we don't really have a ranged combatant in the mix. Agon was also another SneakyGit.
In terms of niche preservation, we've got:
Arcane Blasty = Karthan
Sneaky = Jorzan and Karthan (and Agon)
Melee Butt Kicking = Kelne and Justahl
Secondary Melee = Jorzan and Tenel
Ranged = Karthan, AgonWithout Agon, we don't really have a ranged combatant in the mix. Agon was also another SneakyGit.
I'm thinking of asking PsionicFox in my current LFP to take his sorc and turn him into an Arcane Archer to help with ranged support. Same fluff; he joins the expedition to start on his way to the Empire of Mists.
Alternately, Squeeks has a build for a damned soul seeking redemption, which might be cool; have The Inheritor tell her to aid Justahl and the rest of you in order to redeem herself. I could ask her if she'd make a cleric-type with emphasis on ranged support, getting you more healing magic in addition to ranged attacks.
I'm assuming Kelne and Justahl can also provide range if needed, though they're obviously really well-suited to melee.
What do you think?
My GM descriptions are really terse to be honest, I can wax lyrical in real life, but online I find myself overly-dramatic and am overly breif to compensate!
Both threads have had absences and so on, and aren't nearly as quick as this or other games. Trundling on though.
Hey Kelne, I really dig the Wolfguard idea a lot, so anything else you want to make up about them, feel free to do so and I'll go along with it. I can fill in the blanks if you'd prefer, but it's your idea so I'll defer to any fleshing out you'd like to do, first.
I'm actually quite enjoying seeing them take shape, so I'll leave the fleshing out to you.
Okay, I found our new sixth player. She'll be showing up in the next day or two, playing a hellbred cleric of Iomedae seeking redemption. Combat focus is on ranged; has rapid shot and rapid reload, uses a light crossbow. This also brings some more healing power to you guys.
Kephniel The Damned, feel free to drop in whenever. :-)
Hey all. I am still 100% dedicated to and very much into this game but I feel it fair to let you know that at present I am living in the 'jungle' in the Riviera Maya, Mexico and so am 31km from the closest computer. This is not a huge problem in and of itself except that, at present, >i will likely only have Internet access every other day. This may change soon as I can replace my Blackberry. In the meantime though, how about we say that if it has been more than 24hrs since I last posted and it's holding up the game please DMPC Jorzan. Is that fair for everyone?
And Welcome Kephniel! Another PC with a Dark Past. Maybe her and Jorzan can Soul Search sometime ; )
Hey there everyone! *waves* I'm really looking forward to 1. getting this profile done, and 2. getting started! I've been playing D&D for 3 some-odd years, got thrown in the deep end with a high level 3.5 game to start, so I picked up quick. I DM now, and am running Curse of the Crimson Throne every other week opposite my hubby who is running Council of Thieves. :) Anyway, enough about me. If any of you are coming to PaizoCon this year, I'll see you there!!
YES! Troubled pasts are fun for me. *grin* I will make a committment to use my Trillian more, so if anyone wants to chat you can find me on MSN at octobernights17 at hotmail dot com or AIM at stagefairyPerry.
Can't wait to meet everyone!!
Khaladon! Man! Holy crap that's incredible. Thanks so much for the heads-up and of COURSE that's fine, given your situation. Your dedication and enthusiasm are awesome!
And yeah, Kephniel, I'll have you introduced in the next day or so, like I said last night, so just keep an eye out for that in the IC thread and pick it up from there.
Khaladon! Man! Holy crap that's incredible. Thanks so much for the heads-up and of COURSE that's fine, given your situation. Your dedication and enthusiasm are awesome!
.
Cool. Thanks! : )
Howdy Kephniel! Welcome to the game; and I'll probably see you at Paizocon!
Alright, Kephniel, you've officially been introduced in the IC thread.
Okay, seriously..... ignore my Aura of Menace post comment. It's what I get for listening to others talk spells while trying to type. I don't have the ability yet. :P I'll repost.
Okay, seriously..... ignore my Aura of Menace post comment. It's what I get for listening to others talk spells while trying to type. I don't have the ability yet. :P I'll repost.
Ahahahaa, no worries! Your timing was perfect, actually, I was working on the next enemy attack while you put up your correction, so it worked out.
HP roll:
Woo! Level!
Levelled! I'm buying the bracelets for sacred bond in the morning. Already charged myself the money.
Rolled locally for hit points, got a 5. So +7.
OK, ready. Not much changed.
Word up! The IC thread is now ready for y'all. It's decision and RP time. :-)
Wow! A level already?? Super Cool! But I honestly had thought it would be a Looong time until we leveled-hence my changing of Jorzan's stats earlier. Hmmm, so this brings me actually to something i wanted to address with you DRA (and if anyone else has any comments or ideas they are welcome to add them)
I've been feeling Jorzan to be a somewhat weak build, at least martially. I know a lot of that has been because of super crappy rolls, but also it's his single +8 attack and 1d6+1 damage. Yes, he gets the 3d6 sneak, but only occasionally.
SO, I don't know if I just need to start playing him differently? For example only sniping from afar with the crossbow or something? Or if he needs a rebuild. A part of the problem was the reroll I had to do. After I made the mistake with the 6d10 roll the dice failed me on the 10d6. But that's just the roll of the die sometimes, I know. Now though, if we keep leveling as quick as we just did, by the time 8th level comes around and Jorzan cast start to cast spells, they will be based of of his now very low 12CHA. Sure a magic item could bring that to a more respectable 14 but...
What I'd kinda like to do is reroll his whole stats properly. But two things stand in the way. One, I don't know if that's fair to everyone else, and two, the way Paizo's die roller has been treating me it's a big risk! lol. Invisible Castle may be kinder.
More than that though, I'd like to rebuild him slightly. I was thinking maybe with a reach weapon to take advantage of his Combat Reflexes. But I really can't see, as a stealthy character, him carrying around a pole weapon. So the only thing that i can think of is a Scorpian Whip. But then with that the problem is that he can't use his weapon finesse, and with his high Dex and low Str that's kinda necessary. Alternatively there's the spiked chain, which allows weapon finesse, but doesn't have reach. And on top of all of that, he's a feat short to use either of those weapons anyway.
So anyway, that's the whole thing. The bottom line is that I am fine to play Jorzan as he is. If a re-roll or rebuild are possible/allowed, i might go with that, but I'm still not quite sure how best to even do that. So any ideas on that, or on how to better play Jorzan in fight situations are appreciated.
If this all comes off as my being whiney, apologies for that! ( I can't stand whiners) really I'm just laying out some of my displeasure with the way I originally built my PC. Don't get me wrong, I very much like playing Jorzan, and, as I said, I am happy to continue playing him exactly as he is. I just wish he could be a little more effective in a fight. ; )
Dat's all. Thanks. Meanwhile, here's the HP Roll (and if you're not kind Paizo roller I'm never using you again! lol)
HP 1d8:
Yup! That's it! Screw you Paizo Roller!
Ok 7th lvl Changes:
1 Hero Point
+1 BAB
Improved Saves
+5 to HP (2+CON+Human)
10 skill points
Gain Darkvision (Whoo-hoo!)
Gain Improved Uncanny Dodge
**Now here's a question. It says this about Uncanny Dodge
"If a shadowdancer already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead."
Does the same apply to Evasion? Because Jorzan already has Evasion from his Rogue classes and just now gained it again as a Shadowdancer. So does it mean he gets Improved Evasion (even though it doesn't say that he does?) Or is it just a wasted addition? Or can he exchange it for some other feat?
DM?
The one thing that comes to mind for Jorzan that would increase his effectiveness is Spring Attack. Your strategy of hiding in shadows, then bouncing out and attacking and then bouncing back into the shadows is, I think, your best bet as it'll get you sneak attack damage and keep you out of harm's way. You just need a way to avoid the AoO's. Even though Spring Attack is full-round so it won't allow you to melt back in the shadows at the end of your turn, it at least gets you far enough away to force the enemy to move to find you, depriving them of iterative attacks, and then you can just hide in the shadows on your next turn, if you want.
It is indeed a bit late to re-roll and re-distribute attributes, that wouldn't be fair to everyone else, I don't think.
Another thing is that this first chunk of adventure had a lot of martial combat, but it won't always be like that. There will be more opportunities for Jorzan's sneakiness to become helpful in non-martial ways, which may help you exploit the utility and quality of his build.
As for Evasion, that does seem to be an odd oversight. If anyone else has any insight to offer, I would appreciate it. I'm not finding a feat called Improved Evasion, is there such a thing? I think my ruling would be that you could just take a different feat in its stead.
Thanks for the answer DRA, that's what I figured you'd say and for sure that seems most fair. And yes I know Jorzan is not primarily a front line fighter type. He has his own specialties which I know will come to the fore in other situations : )
Spring Attack is a good idea, I'll consider that for Jorzan's next feat.
Shadowdancer's get Improved Evasion of their own at 10th level and Rogue's can choose it as an Advanced Rogue Talent.
HP:
*sigh* It'll work. I'll have the sheet updated and I'll post later tonight, I'm hoping. This week has been... insane, to say the least. Thank God for the weekend coming up. :)
I have updated Karthan's character profile page.
+7 Init from +3
+1 to all saving throws.
+7 HP (46 total now)
Added ranks to Stealth, Perception, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device and Fly (since he has the spell now).
Feats: Improved Initiative (Init of +7) from Bloodline, Expanded Arcana.
Spells added:
1st: Grease (DC 17)
2nd: Rope Trick (AKA: "Scry Proof Camping"), Glitterdust, Scorching Ray
3rd: Haste, Fly
Equipment: Bought more of the acid filled crossbow bolts with the 1,100 GP I'd left unspent.
Magic Items from the library: Scroll of Burning Arrows, Scroll of Wall of Fire.
Thanks for the answer DRA, that's what I figured you'd say and for sure that seems most fair. And yes I know Jorzan is not primarily a front line fighter type. He has his own specialties which I know will come to the fore in other situations : )
Spring Attack is a good idea, I'll consider that for Jorzan's next feat.
Shadowdancer's get Improved Evasion of their own at 10th level and Rogue's can choose it as an Advanced Rogue Talent.
Unlike Uncanny Dodge, Evasion and Improved Evasion don't 'auto convert' to the next class like ability up.
What feat did you take at 7th?
Jorzan can be very effective - provided you've got a flanking buddy. Attack someone who Justahl or Kelne or Tenel is attacking from the opposite side, and you have the flanked, and can do a full attack with Sneak Attack damage.
All three of the combats you've been in, you've been trying to go solo, and Rogues don't do that terribly well.
If Karthan is swinging his claws, something is horribly wrong. :)
Well, I've gone for that 1st level of ranger, since I think those class bonuses to various skills will come in very handy for the trip, and Kelne's very much a great outdoors fighter. And how can I resist Favoured enemy (undead)?
HP:
I'd like to stick with the fighter save progression, if that's alright. It prevents the slightly jammy situation where I get a sudden +2 bonus to two saves.
Extra skill ranks to use magic device, survival, stealth, ride, perception and handle animal, and an extra 2 to knowledge (geography).
Track, wild empathy and favoured enemy (undead) added to class features.
Going with Vital Strike for the feat.
Gear wise, Kelne's pocketed that +1 kukri, and is taking a potion of cat's grace and a scroll of charm animal.
Minor edit to the above:
For the second spell from Expanded Arcana, I took Alarm, rather than Scorching Ray;
Nighttime routine:
1) I cast Rope Trick and we squirrel Cassandra and everyone who's sleeping up the rope. Rope Trick prevents scrying on people who are in its pocket space unless their scrying goes across dimensions. It also means we don't die of exposure...
2) I cast Alarm on the stake point for the horses, and the people on the ground are told where the alarm point is - they get a ringing tone if anything crosses the alarm zone without saying the password.
There is a magic item I'd like to purchase at some point down the road:
Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell. This makes Rope Trick and Mage Armor for myself and Cassandra into 14 hour spells. It also turns Unseen Servant into a 14 hour spell. In Karthan's ideal world, he'd get two of them. They're 3,000 GP each.
I would also recommend - in the likely case that you don't want us to be worried about supplies - that the Library or a temple somewhere, gift us with five sustaining spoons. (Two will feed the party, the other three will feed the horses...)
Karthan has seen one of those - they're highly desirable items for commando missions. No cook fires, and a spoon is MUCH easier to carry than food for several days. Indeed, he could never understand why Dad insisted we learn to eat bugs on camping trips when he had the spoon... :) (Yet another reason why Karthan never picked up a level of Ranger.)
Karthan would be using Prestidigitation to make the results taste better than "warm, wet cardboard". :)
Aha! 7th level feat! KNEW I was forgeting something! Gracias : )
There are SO many new Feats that I am unfamiliar with that if anyone knows of a better suggestion for a Rogue/ShadowDancer I'm all ears. but from what I know, this is what I'm gonna do.
AdAstra makes a good point, Jorzan is more effective when flanking...
Spring Attack is attractive from a defensive point of view, but by using it won't I be taking the flank away from my companions if I move away before they get their chance to attack?
It was suggested I pick up a longspear from Jorzan to be able to take advantage of his Combat Reflexes. Since it just fits inside I haversack, i'll do that and try it out sometimes.
I've been wracking my brain and can't seem to come up with a better option than Spring Attack as the next feat but don't feel completely happy with it. Any suggestions are most welcome.
As an aside, found an interesting thread HERE in which there's a link to James Jacobs confirming that with weapon finesse the weapon wielder can add their Dex bonus to a CMB. Whoot! : )
Also, as much as I love the thematic and RP possibilities of the Shadowdancer, mechanics & power-wise, it just doesn't seem to be that great of a build. So as of now, I'm thinking of maybe only taking it to 4th, and then maybe back to Rogue and picking up a TWF feat?
Sound right?
Or maybe even a dip into Wizard for some extra/utility Arcane Casting power for the group? Or better just load up with wands using UMD...
Bah. I've been thinking about this for too long!
Here's what I'd take:
Combat Expertise (you qualify for it) at 7th. You get to trade -2 to hit to get an additional +2 to AC. It is also a pre-requisite for Improved Disarm at 9th.
Here's how it works once you get Improved Disarm:
1) Someone moves through a square that's adjacent to you - en route to, say, Cassandra or Karthan. They don't provoke on entering. They do provoke on leaving. So, they provoke.
2) When they provoke, you do a disarm on them. Your Disarm would be: +6 from BAB, +4 from DEX (Weapon Finesse), +1 for the rapier, and +2 for Improved Disarm, for a total of +13. You're generally going to have to beat BAB+STR+DEX, which will end up (for APL+3 encounters) being around 16-17. Or, in other words, you succeed in the disarm on about a 4 or higher against most opponents. Does that sound better than missing a lot? :)
Repeat step 2 up to 4 additional times.
3) Karthan sends the Unseen Servant to go over and collect the litter.
4) On YOUR action, you attack them for damage. At level 11, get Greater Disarm, and you can throw their weapons 15' away from you (which is the primary benefit that Karthan's Unseen Servant spell does).
You need to look seriously at "I move, and then hold a Ready action" as a tactical option, and you are absolutely right - Spring Attack means that you go in, make your one attack, and then move back, denying your buddy the flank option.
That said, Spring Attack is a useful option as a bridge to this:
Spring Attack at 7th and Vital Strike at 9th (when you'd qualify for it). There's an ambiguity between whether or not Spring Attack allows you to use Vital Strike with it; two Paizo NPCs do so, but the rules as written do not allow it. Because you're not getting much in terms of static damage bonuses out of your rapier, unless you're attacking with Sneak Attack and can take a Full Round Attack, you're going to be better off with Spring Attack + Vital Strike + Sneak Attack in most cases. By the time you have Vital Strike, you'll also have your shadow pet.
Your character is secondary combat - you can do a HELL of a lot out of combat, but when it comes to fights, remember that you're a vulture to Kelne's and Justah's lions. Your job isn't to take the guy out yourself. Your job is to make sure that the guys facing Kelne and Justahl go down faster because of a rapier in their kidneys that they weren't expecting. (Karthan's job is to make sure that before they get to Justahl and Kelne, they're down a bunch of hit points, and preferably on fire.)
Is there a reason you have a Masterwork Crossbow instead of a Masterwork Shortbow? It won't make any difference until you get to level 8, but at level 8 you get iterative attacks with a bow, and inside of 30', that's iterative attacks with sneak attack damage as well.
Karthan uses the Crossbow of Amun-Thul in large part because his ability to hit is going to blow chunks no matter what weapon he's using, unless he's using True Strike, and because he can hand the bow to the Unseen Servant to reload while he sets up his next shot with True Strike; iterative attacks are a waste for Karthan. Though, Vital Strike is something I'm vaguely considering for level 13 (sigh).
Ok and the Poison List. Since you didn't set a limit DRA I tried not to be too greedy and set one for myself. No poison over 300gp and not more than 300gp worth of any one poison. So this turns out to be for my selection:
-Sassone leaf residue, contact DC16 1 min. 1/min. for 6 min. 2d12 hp/1 Con 1 save 300 gp (1)
Oil of taggit ingested DC15 min. — unconscious 1d3 hours 1 save 90 gp (3)
Drow poison injury 13 — 1/min. for 2 min. unconscious 1 min./2d4 hours 1 save 75 gp (4)
Medium spider venom injury 14 — 1/rd. for 4 rds. 1d2 Str 1 save 150 gp (2)
Large scorpion venom injury 17 — 1/rd. for 6 rds. 1d2 Str 1 save 200 gp (1)
Id moss ingested 14 10 min. 1/min. for 6 min. 1d3 Int 1 save 125 gp (2)
Blue whinnis injury 14 — 1/rd. for 2 rds 1 Con/unconscious 1d3 hours 1 save 120 gp (2)
Bloodroot injury 12 1 rd. 1/rd. for 4 rds. 1 Con and 1 Wis 1 save 100 gp (3)
Black adder venom injury 11 — 1/rd. for 6 rds. 1d2 Con 1 save 120 gp (2)
Shadow essence injury 17 — 1/rd. for 6 rds. 1 Str drain/1d2 Str 1 save 250 gp (2)
(This one was just so cool that he Stole the second dose! Sleight of Hand ; )
He also takes an hour to change one of the doses if Id Moss to Injury, Craft (alchemy) and also picks up a Portable Alchemists Lab. Please let me know DRA if any of these things are not OK.
Here's what I'd take:
Combat Expertise (you qualify for it) at 7th. You get to trade -2 to hit to get an additional +2 to AC. It is also a pre-requisite for Improved Disarm at 9th.
Here's how it works once you get Improved Disarm:
1) Someone moves through a square that's adjacent to you - en route to, say, Cassandra or Karthan. They don't provoke on entering. They do provoke on leaving. So, they provoke.
2) When they provoke, you do a disarm on them. Your Disarm would be: +6 from BAB, +4 from DEX (Weapon Finesse), +1 for the rapier, and +2 for Improved Disarm, for a total of +13. You're generally going to have to beat BAB+STR+DEX, which will end up (for APL+3 encounters) being around 16-17. Or, in other words, you succeed in the disarm on about a 4 or higher against most opponents. Does that sound better than missing a lot? :)
Repeat step 2 up to 4 additional times.
3) Karthan sends the Unseen Servant to go over and collect the litter.
4) On YOUR action, you attack them for damage. At level 11, get Greater Disarm, and you can throw their weapons 15' away from you (which is the primary benefit that Karthan's Unseen Servant spell does).
You need to look seriously at "I move, and then hold a Ready action" as a tactical option, and you are absolutely right - Spring Attack means that you go in, make your one attack, and then move back, denying your buddy the flank option.
That said, Spring Attack is a useful option as a bridge to this:
Spring Attack at 7th and Vital Strike at 9th (when you'd qualify for it). There's an ambiguity between whether or not Spring Attack allows you to use Vital Strike with it; two Paizo NPCs do so, but the rules as written do not allow it. Because you're not getting much in terms of static damage bonuses out of your rapier, unless you're attacking with Sneak Attack and can take a Full Round Attack, you're going to be better off with Spring Attack + Vital Strike + Sneak Attack in most cases. By the time you have Vital Strike, you'll also have your...
WOW, THANKS AdAstra!
Those are Both great options and sets of info you've given me. And now I can see Both being entertaining. With the Shadowpet and Spring Attadk, it can still give flanking options even if Jorzan is bopping back and forth. But with the Improved Disarm, disarming a group of foes in one shot would be FUN. And with the longspear, that would be anyone within 10+ (although no Dex bonus then...)
And of course you're also right in that I have to remember Jorzan's role.
Hmmm, I think i'm gonna have to sleep on this one. Will decide manaña. :)
Ah, and oh yes! Definitely Shortbow instead of Crossbow. Assuming it will be no trouble at the Library/Armory to trade in one for the other DRA?
Ah, and oh yes! Definitely Shortbow instead of Crossbow. Assuming it will be no trouble at the Library/Armory to trade in one for the other DRA?
Yup, no problem.
Forgot the extra skill rank for humans. I'll put it into Knowledge (nature).
In general: Unless you're a beat-stick, costing someone a move or standard action in a fight is more useful than doing damage to them.
Once you get past opponents of 6 HD, putting conditions on someone (what your poison does) is more useful than doing damage to them.
Every time you act and your opponent does not, you win.
Jorzan, with a STR of 10, is not a beat stick. :)
I think you're better off doing disarms with the rapier than with the longspear.
Oh, and if your shadowpet is being your flanking buddy, add another +2 to that CMB of yours.
The first rule of D&D Gridded Combat: Try and set up a flanking attack.
The second rule of D&D Gridded Combat: Why the hell aren't you flanking yet?
The third rule of D&D Gridded Combat: Screw it. If you're not gonna flank, I'm throwing a fireball. :)
Nothing dishes damage like a melee beat-stick. (And now that Karthan has Haste, the melee beat-sticks are trying to find manly ways to give him roses, chocolates and hot dates with supermodels.)
Seriously - I cast one spell, and 7 of my buddies get:
+1 to hit
+1 to AC
+30' of movement
+1 additional attack per round at full BAB on a Full Attack action.
for the next 7 rounds. Each round of haste that you guys use probably does about 3-4 dice of extra damage.
Most ridiculously under-leveled spell in the game. :)
OK, thanks to some expert Paizo help, I know what I want to do.
Well, that is if DRA will allow a Small rebuild and no one else thinks it unfair. I'd like to replace the Rogue Talent Resiliency with Combat Trick. I only took Resiliency because I didn't know what else to take. Jorzan has never used it and is unlikely to use it very often, if ever.
With that combat trick I will take Exotic Weapon Feat (Spear, Chain-Flying Talon)
Then as 7th lvl Feat I will take Skill Focus(Stealth). This leads to me being able to take Hellcat Stealth at 9th level, (which will allow me to use Hide In Plain Sight (or at least normal Stealth) even in the light!)
8th level I will take Combat Trick again and use it to take Combat Patrol. This will add another 5' to the 10' reach of the Flying Talon and allow movement up to full speed. (At least I think this is what I will do...don't have to decide just yet ; )
So, with the Flying Talon, which is a Reach, Disarm & Trip weapon, I will at present be able to disarm or trip at this: +4 from BAB, +4 from DEX (Weapon Finesse), +1 for the magic weapon, and +2 for a Disarm Weapon, for a total of +11..with a 10' reach!
Plus I really like the image of the Talon, seems to suit Jorzan much more than a Rapier, in my mind at least.
Improved Disarm would of course be great to prevent return AOO's but Jorzan has Acrobactics and Mobilty to help with those.
To get the magic Flying Talon would just trade the +1 Rapier for a +1 Flying Talon (The Flying Talon even costs a little bit less, so no extra gain there)
I'm only asking because until a few minutes ago I had no idea that this weapon or any of these feats existed. I'm putting it in the open because I want everyone to have a chance to voice their opinion if they think such a change would be unfair at this point. If anyone thinks it unfair I will not do it.
So amigos, I leave the rest up to you!
And truly, please feel free to state your honest opinion because I really will be fine if this is not allowed. I'm just putting it out there.
The talon sounds very much like a whip mechanically. I presume it deals lethal damage. I tend to be a bit suspicious of any exotic weapon which clearly trumps an existing exotic weapon, and the whip's clear advantages when it comes to ranged combat manoeuvres come at the cost of any damage-dealing potential.
Getting reach, disarm, trip, lethal damage and weapon finnesse just seems a bit much to me. I'm frankly curious as to where the weapon's rules come from.
Another note: I don't think weapon enhancement bonuses count for CMB. Which is fair enough, considering armour enhancements don't count towards defence.
Okay, so I know about Karthan's Rope Trick business for hiding Cassandra and anyone sleeping, but what's the watch order gonna be?
The talon sounds very much like a whip mechanically. I presume it deals lethal damage. I tend to be a bit suspicious of any exotic weapon which clearly trumps an existing exotic weapon, and the whip's clear advantages when it comes to ranged combat manoeuvres come at the cost of any damage-dealing potential.
Getting reach, disarm, trip, lethal damage and weapon finnesse just seems a bit much to me. I'm frankly curious as to where the weapon's rules come from.
Another note: I don't think weapon enhancement bonuses count for CMB. Which is fair enough, considering armour enhancements don't count towards defence.
The Spear, Chain (Flying Talon) is from Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (OGL). Can see it online here..
It does indeed do lethal damage. And there is also a whip that does lethal damage, the Scorpian Whip.
I don't know about weapon enhancement bonuses being added to CMB, on that I was just going by what AdAstra said.
If you Chris, DRA, or anyone else has objections to that weapon being used in the game, I can forgo the Reach (at least until Combat Patrol ; ) and save a Feat and just get a Spiked Chain instead.
One of the downsides of any whip, including Scorpion Whip, is that you don't threaten any squares. The chain spear is actually not that great compared to the dire flail.
One of the downsides of any whip, including Scorpion Whip, is that you don't threaten any squares. The chain spear is actually not that great compared to the dire flail.
Ya for sure the Dire Flail has advantages over the Chain Spear, but the Flying Talon (chain spear) just seems to suit Jorzan more to me.
Well, objections withdrawn here. If it's made it into an official book, I'm prepared to let it go. And it does look like there's a few disadvantages associated with it. Although the chain-spear and the flying talon seem to be two very different weapons. Not sure why the talon's labeled like that on the website.
Kelne will take middle watch, and will skip lurking in the rope trick extradimensional space. Sure he might be secure from attack, but it separates him from the wide world and makes him that much less able to respond to troube to his mind.
Well, objections withdrawn here. If it's made it into an official book, I'm prepared to let it go. And it does look like there's a few disadvantages associated with it. Although the chain-spear and the flying talon seem to be two very different weapons. Not sure why the talon's labeled like that on the website.
Kelne will take middle watch, and will skip lurking in the rope trick extradimensional space. Sure he might be secure from attack, but it separates him from the wide world and makes him that much less able to respond to troube to his mind.
Seperate weapons? I don't have the book Chris, would you mind putting the info or descriptions for the two different weapons here? If that's allowed of course.
Jorzan also will forgo sleeping in the extradinmensional space, at least for now anyway. He is, of course, completely comfortable in the dark, and is very used to sleeping in the wild.
Hey guys, I'm on a short "tour" out east with one of my bands for a few days, so posting is gonna be a bit spotty during that time. I'm still checking in and will post longer things when I have wifi, but will try to get shorter posts done while in the van. Anything to beguile the tedium of a journey across IN, OH, and PA.
Well, there's a listing for the flying talon in the campaign setting, with stats the same as those listed under 'chain-spear (flying talon)' on the site. The chain spear's from the APG, and you can find the stats by scrolling down the equipment list.