I was just reading the web spell and am having a little trouble trying to figure out what happens to creatures that leave or enter the spells area after it has been cast.
Does a creature who was entangled stop being entangled once they leave the web or do they have to wait until the spell goes away?
How should this spell effect creatures who walk into the area? Are they entangled? Do they have to make the Strength or Escape Artist checks to move through it?
I already am leaning toward having it not effect you once you leave the webbed area and treating creatures who enter the web as affected by it like creatures who made their Reflex save. I just would like other people to tell me if this is wrong or a bad interpretation.
Thank you for your time,
Zynete.
You're definitely right that the web spell has no further effect on creatures that leave the area (once they've struggled out with Strength or Escape Artist checks). Creatures entering the web after it's been cast is an unusual situation, but I think your inclination is correct - they are entangled and must make Strength or Escape Artist checks to move, just as if they'd been caught in it and made their Reflex save.
You're definitely right that the web spell has no further effect on creatures that leave the area (once they've struggled out with Strength or Escape Artist checks). Creatures entering the web after it's been cast is an unusual situation, but I think your inclination is correct - they are entangled and must make Strength or Escape Artist checks to move, just as if they'd been caught in it and made their Reflex save.
I concur.
I dotheth concureth with thateth.
You have now received an *ArchLich stamp of approval* on your understanding of the web spell.
Thanks a lot everyone!
I'm going to disagree with the consensus. The spell says that those that make their save become entangled. The text says nothing about ending the entanglement by leaving the area of the web. Since this is not addressed the entanglement condition should persist until the spell ends.
Furthermore the spell specifies that those caught in the area of effect when the spell is caste suffer adverse conditions as outlined in the spell. There is nothing in the spell description that says anything about the web effecting people that subsequently move into the web except that it might provide cover - since their is no mechanic, in the spell, that describes how they are effected they simply aren't.
To sum up - you can't get out of the entanglement until the spells duration runs out and their are no ill effects for entering spaces occupied by a web after it has been cast.
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As for my two cents, of the two ideas put forth in this thread, go with the one that is more fun for your game. I personally think that it only having the effects limited to the area of the spell is more fun. Makes you want to get out and not go in, depending on your position. Anything that requires more tactical movement works for me. Plus, being entangled for the whole battle would suck.
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I'm going to disagree with the consensus. The spell says that those that make their save become entangled. The text says nothing about ending the entanglement by leaving the area of the web. Since this is not addressed the entanglement condition should persist until the spell ends.
Furthermore the spell specifies that those caught in the area of effect when the spell is caste suffer adverse conditions as outlined in the spell. There is nothing in the spell description that says anything about the web effecting people that subsequently move into the web except that it might provide cover - since their is no mechanic, in the spell, that describes how they are effected they simply aren't.
To sum up - you can't get out of the entanglement until the spells duration runs out and their are no ill effects for entering spaces occupied by a web after it has been cast.
This may be the first time I have disagreed so completely with one of your posts, Jeremy. I have to admit that you are right, the rules the rest of us seem to think apply are technically not there (and curiously *are there* for the Entangle spell) but I am one to think that the spell was meant to be the Wizardly version of entangle and should operate the same (or in a very similar way).
Just my 2cp,sp,gp or pp - whatever monetary standard is being used in your game.
I'm going to disagree with the consensus. The spell says that those that make their save become entangled. The text says nothing about ending the entanglement by leaving the area of the web. Since this is not addressed the entanglement condition should persist until the spell ends.
Furthermore the spell specifies that those caught in the area of effect when the spell is caste suffer adverse conditions as outlined in the spell. There is nothing in the spell description that says anything about the web effecting people that subsequently move into the web except that it might provide cover - since their is no mechanic, in the spell, that describes how they are effected they simply aren't.
To sum up - you can't get out of the entanglement until the spells duration runs out and their are no ill effects for entering spaces occupied by a web after it has been cast.
This may be the first time I have disagreed so completely with one of your posts, Jeremy. I have to admit that you are right, the rules the rest of us seem to think apply are technically not there (and curiously *are there* for the Entangle spell) but I am one to think that the spell was meant to be the Wizardly version of entangle and should operate the same (or in a very similar way).
Just my 2cp,sp,gp or pp - whatever monetary standard is being used in your game.
I ain't saying that this might not be improved with a house rule. I got nothing against house rules and I use some myself.
But the question was 'how does X work?'. I'm simply answering the question. By RAW web works like this. If you feel it should work some other way thats a valid opinion. If I have any kind of an issue with this thread is that these opinions are being stated as if they are RAW. I'd prefer if people basically first went with how the spell actually worked and then threw in their 2 cents on how the spell ought to work.
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I ain't saying that this might not be improved with a house rule. I got nothing against house rules and I use some myself.
But the question was 'how does X work?'. I'm simply answering the question. By RAW web works like this. If you feel it should work some other way thats a valid opinion. If I have any kind of an issue with this thread is that these opinions are being stated as if they are RAW. I'd prefer if people basically first went with how the spell actually worked and then threw in their 2 cents on how the spell ought to work.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with you. For the following discussion, I'm going to be using the description of the spell found here.
First the spell affects an area, not particular targets. While this may seem like a minor point, it shows that magic of the spell is bound to an area, not the people.
Second, it says that a creature entangled in the web "may move through the web very slowly". It is then followed by mechanics of how to determine how far you can move. By implications, once you're out of the web, you can move normally.
Third, your assertion that there is nothing about people moving into the area is incorrect. The description says "Creatures caught within a web become entangled...". Whether you were there when the spell is cast or move into it later, your still within the web.
And finally, the spell can be made permanent. If this is the case, would those initially caught in the web be permanently hindered in their movement? And would the web have no other effect than to provide cover, since anyone not in the web at the time of the casting can move through it unhindered? It seems that there would be an easier and cheaper way to provide cover.
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I'm going to disagree with the consensus. The spell says that those that make their save become entangled. The text says nothing about ending the entanglement by leaving the area of the web. Since this is not addressed the entanglement condition should persist until the spell ends.
Furthermore the spell specifies that those caught in the area of effect when the spell is caste suffer adverse conditions as outlined in the spell. There is nothing in the spell description that says anything about the web effecting people that subsequently move into the web except that it might provide cover - since their is no mechanic, in the spell, that describes how they are effected they simply aren't.
To sum up - you can't get out of the entanglement until the spells duration runs out and their are no ill effects for entering spaces occupied by a web after it has been cast.
So if I entered a Permanent Web, I would be entangled permanently?
That seems highly doubtful. If you leave the area of effect for the Entangle spell you aren't entangled any longer, so why would web be different?
So if I entered a Permanent Web, I would be entangled permanently?
That seems highly doubtful. If you leave the area of effect for the Entangle spell you aren't entangled any longer, so why would web be different?
From the first literal reading of the spell it would seem that if you were a poor fool in the middle of a permanent web being cast you were going to be entangled forever. And if the poor fool failed that first Reflex save and couldn't make the Strength check or Escape Artist check to break free he would be hanging around for a while.
The only reason this came up in my mind was that I though the persistant area spells were way more specific with the rules than this.
Pyrotechnics does seem to say specifically how new people are effected.
Prayer Is also an area of effect spell that I felt only had an effect on those who were in the area when the spell was cast.
Reverse Gravity gives me similar text problems. I can assume what it is supposed to do just I like to be able to know if someone running into the already cast spell gets a Reflex save.
But again, thank you everyone for all your help.
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Prayer Is also an area of effect spell that I felt only had an effect on those who were in the area when the spell was cast.
For this one, the target of the spell is the people, so anyone not in range of the spell when its cast isn't affected. IMO.
Reverse Gravity gives me similar text problems. I can assume what it is supposed to do just I like to be able to know if someone running into the already cast spell gets a Reflex save.
For this one, the part about "when the spell strikes" seems pretty clear, although I think anyone moving into the area unaware of the spell would also have to make a save. This save more represents the surpise and quick reflexes of being affected by the spell rather than the affects of the spell itself. Again, just my opinion, though.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with you. For the following discussion, I'm going to be using the description of the spell found here.
well we are using the same source material. I glanced at the Players Handbook but wording is essentially identical and sheds no new light on the topic. I looked at the Players Handbook and the FAQ but both are silent on the issue. I'd say that we agree that the Hypertext D20 site offers a definitive text for this debate.
First the spell affects an area, not particular targets. While this may seem like a minor point, it shows that magic of the spell is bound to an area, not the people.Second, it says that a creature entangled in the web "may move through the web very slowly". It is then followed by mechanics of how to determine how far you can move. By implications, once you're out of the web, you can move normally.
I would disagree with the idea that you are automatically allowed to move normally once you exit the web. While in the Web you suffered from the ill effects associated with the condition entangled. But the mechanics of the spell would seem to supersede the movement effects of the entangled condition and instead one followed the mechanics described for movement in the spell itself. I would submit that once one left the radius of the spell one reverted to the normal rules for being entangled until a game mechanic lifted that condition. Since the mechanics in the spell don't specify that the condition gets lifted by exiting the web it would seem that the condition persists until the spell itself ceases.
Third, your assertion that there is nothing about people moving into the area is incorrect. The description says "Creatures caught within a web become entangled...". Whether you were there when the spell is cast or move into it later, your still within the web.
This occurs in the descriptive text in the first paragraph of the spell where the general gist of whats going on is covered. We see such descriptive text in most spells. It states here that a web is going to be created and that people are going to be entangled by that web.
Ultimately, though , the descriptive text just gives the gist of whats going on. In the end we must follow the actual mechanic of the spell.
Here we find that the mechanics of the spell effects two groups of people. Those that made their reflex saves when the spell was initially cast and those that failed their reflex saves. The mechanics here are fairly clear that people being effected by this spell either initially made or failed a reflex save and the mechanic calling for a reflex save only occurs if you are in the area of effect when the spell is cast. There simply is no mechanic given for those that never had to make a reflex save in the first place and therefore they are not effected by the spell except insofar as webs seem to provide cover.
And finally, the spell can be made permanent. If this is the case, would those initially caught in the web be permanently hindered in their movement? And would the web have no other effect than to provide cover, since anyone not in the web at the time of the casting can move through it unhindered? It seems that there would be an easier and cheaper way to provide cover.
By the way the actual mechanic is described I think you have pretty much summed up the effect of permanency on web. Is this unreasonable? Yes, it probably is. I suggest you house rule it. I'd house rule the effects of permanent webs but its not unreasonable to change the mechanics of the spell itself if that suits you - in fact you might even get closer to the designers intention if not necessarily closer to what was actually written.