Warpriest vs Brawler

What is more advantageous in the opinion of you: Warpriest with sacred fist Archetype or Brawler with Steel-Breaker Archetype?

What do you want to accomplish with your character?

What is more advantageous in the opinion of you: Warpriest with sacred fist Archetype or Brawler with Steel-Breaker Archetype?

Well both are good unarmed characters but I'll have to champion the sacred fist because it's effectively full BAB with 6 levels of spell casting. You can also multiclass 1 level of monk of many styles for pummeling charge at level 2 for a powerful character.

I would recommend 2 levels of MoMS...

Pummelling charge and evasion.

I would recommend 2 levels of MoMS...

Pummelling charge and evasion.

One vs 2 is personal preference. I prefer getting quicken blessing at 11.

sacred fist warpriest with one level monk dip.

thiago soares wrote:

What is more advantageous in the opinion of you: Warpriest with sacred fist Archetype or Brawler with Steel-Breaker Archetype?

Well both are good unarmed characters but I'll have to champion the sacred fist because it's effectively full BAB with 6 levels of spell casting. You can also multiclass 1 level of monk of many styles for pummeling charge at level 2 for a powerful character.

Wait, how could you get Pummeling Charge at level 2 with a 1 level MoMS dip?

Prerequisite(s): Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style; base attack bonus +12, brawler level 8th, or monk level 8th.

You have the first two prereqs down, but you still have to be a Level 8 Brawler. So don't you have to take a 2 level MoMS dip?

Wait, how could you get Pummeling Charge at level 2 with a 1 level MoMS dip?

Prerequisite(s): Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style; base attack bonus +12, brawler level 8th, or monk level 8th.

You have the first two prereqs down, but you still have to be a Level 8 Brawler. So don't you have to take a 2 level MoMS dip?

Pummleing Style requireds Improved Unarmed strike and one of the three following things +6 BAB, Brawlers Flurry or Flurry of blows....

So a REGULAR monk or brawler could pick it up at first level.

a MoMS can NOT pick it up as a regular feat at first level since he does not get flurry though eh could as a bonus feat.

So the order of your classes is important.
Level 1 Sacred Fist and pick up Pummeling Style with your level 1 feat.
Level 2 MoMS and pick up Pummeling charge withyour MoMS bonus feat.
Level 3 (My prefernce) MoMS and pick up Evasion, Dragon style with your level 3 feat, and Dragon Ferocity with your MOMS feat.
Level 4 - 20 Sacred Fist.

This is assumihgn str/wis based sacred fist.... with guided enchantment other styles may be better.

EntrerisShadow wrote:

Wait, how could you get Pummeling Charge at level 2 with a 1 level MoMS dip?

Prerequisite(s): Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style; base attack bonus +12, brawler level 8th, or monk level 8th.

You have the first two prereqs down, but you still have to be a Level 8 Brawler. So don't you have to take a 2 level MoMS dip?

Pummleing Style requireds Improved Unarmed strike and one of the three following things +6 BAB, Brawlers Flurry or Flurry of blows....

So a REGULAR monk or brawler could pick it up at first level.

a MoMS can NOT pick it up as a regular feat at first level since he does not get flurry though eh could as a bonus feat.

So the order of your classes is important.
Level 1 Sacred Fist and pick up Pummeling Style with your level 1 feat.
Level 2 MoMS and pick up Pummeling charge withyour MoMS bonus feat.
Level 3 (My prefernce) MoMS and pick up Evasion, Dragon style with your level 3 feat, and Dragon Ferocity with your MOMS feat.
Level 4 - 20 Sacred Fist.

This is assumihgn str/wis based sacred fist.... with guided enchantment other styles may be better.

MoMS can specifically take any style feat and ignore prerequisites for it:

So I get how the MoMS gets it, but the Warpriest shouldn't?

EDIT: I get it now. Sacred Fist can take Pummeling Style first level since he has flurry of blows, then 2nd level go MoMS. OK, that works.

MOMS can't at level 1.

from your spoiler.

Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style).

His BONUS feat can get the first style feat but not the second unless he already has the first one.

Sacred Fist has Unarmed Strike and Flurry of Blows which qualifies him for Pummeling style. Pummeling style requires (Unarmed stike) and ( (+6 Bab) or (Flurry of blows) or (Brawlers Flurry)). Since the sacred fist has Flurry of blows at first level he can pick up Pummeling Style with his first level feat. Then when he takes MOMS at level 2 he already has Pummeling style so he can use his MOMS bonus feat for his Pummleing Charge.

I THINK you are reading it as pummleing style requires Unarmed strike AND +6 BAB and ((flurry of blows) or (Brawlers Flurry)).

Just for fun, I have to think about what this build would look like...

So by level 4 with a human Sacred Fist you've got:

Lv 1 SF(1): IUS, Pummeling Style, your human bonus feat (Maybe WF?) Nevermind - you don't have +1 BAB to do that.
Lv 2 MoMS(1): Pummeling Charge (bonus)
Lv 3 MoMS(2): Dragon Style (3rd level feat), Dragon Ferocity (MoMS)
Lv 4 SF(2): +0/+0 Flurry.

Problem I see with this is it sets your flurry back and you're already on a slow track. You've got +2 to hit at level 4, or +0/+0. So with a 20 STR, +5/+5 for 1d6+7/1d6+7.

At level 4, that's kind of pathetic, really. The one nice thing is if you crit on either it's a full crit, but still...

Yep it would be a slow start I tend to build looking at level 20 :)

What your not adding in is +2-+4 divine favor+fates favored. It is essential to the warpriest.

Also strength blessing.

Just for fun, I have to think about what this build would look like...

So by level 4 with a human Sacred Fist you've got:

Lv 1 SF(1): IUS, Pummeling Style, your human bonus feat (Maybe WF?) Nevermind - you don't have +1 BAB to do that.

Personally, for lack of better options that I'm not seeing you can go Extra Ki for your human bonus feat. Your Ki Pool is pushed back so far as well from being a Sacred Fist that it kind of needs the help if you don't want it to run out all the time from self-buffing. Or is that not allowed since you don't technically have that class feature yet?

Reading up on sacred fist archetype.

The sacred fist gets flurry of blows and gives up scaling customizable enchantments (bonus, aligned weapon, disruption, etc?) Or is offset by the MOMs pummeling charge dip build? Would anyone be able to share the numbers to show how effective this is?

Reading up on sacred fist archetype.

The sacred fist gets flurry of blows and gives up scaling customizable enchantments (bonus, aligned weapon, disruption, etc?) Or is offset by the MOMs pummeling charge dip build? Would anyone be able to share the numbers to show how effective this is?

Extremely. I wrote a guide on it not long ago. The sacred fist starts off better and scales better. The WP has only one weakness which was not having full BAB. The SF does not.

Undone, can I get a link to your guide?

paizo.com/threads/rzs2ri77?Warpriest-guide-Fight-for-your-god

The sacred fist is at least in my personal opinion the strongest thing you can be doing without 9 levels of spell casting (The summoner doesn't count. Anything with gate 9+ times a day has 9th level casting).

I strongly recommend against the sacred fist archer build if you're starting before 5th. The normal pummeling style build is incredible strong. Unfortunately PFS banned Pummeling charge which is core to the SF build.

The sacred fist gets flurry of blows and gives up scaling customizable enchantments (bonus, aligned weapon, disruption, etc?) Or is offset by the MOMs pummeling charge dip build? Would anyone be able to share the numbers to show how effective this is?

Flurry of Blows crossed with the ability to cast Divine Whatever + Fate's Favored is really, really potent in and of itself. At level 9 the SF effectively flurries with 9BAB +4Buff -2TWF; it's the same 'base' attack as a Raging Barbarian or Fighter, but with 4 TWF attacks + the possibility of extra attacks from Divine Power and/or Ki.

Flurry means you don't pay an offhand damage penalty. Going unarmed Dragon Style means getting 1.5xSTR even though you're flurrying, while going Power Attack with a two-handed weapon means getting full BAB two-handed Power Attack. Regardless of what else is going on, that's a serious beating.

Rerednaw wrote:

The sacred fist gets flurry of blows and gives up scaling customizable enchantments (bonus, aligned weapon, disruption, etc?) Or is offset by the MOMs pummeling charge dip build? Would anyone be able to share the numbers to show how effective this is?

Flurry of Blows crossed with the ability to cast Divine Whatever + Fate's Favored is really, really potent in and of itself. At level 9 the SF effectively flurries with 9BAB +4Buff -2TWF; it's the same 'base' attack as a Raging Barbarian or Fighter, but with 4 TWF attacks + the possibility of extra attacks from Divine Power and/or Ki.

Flurry means you don't pay an offhand damage penalty. Going unarmed Dragon Style means getting 1.5xSTR even though you're flurrying, while going Power Attack with a two-handed weapon means getting full BAB two-handed Power Attack. Regardless of what else is going on, that's a serious beating.

Indeed. The style is as I said in my opinion the strongest thing in the entire game you can do outside of casting 9th level spells and since you can quicken 8th level spells it's not even that far out there.

Divine power, Channel vigor, Divine favor, Righteous might, and half a dozen other spells which effectively turn on for the SF (Since he can fervor weapon only spells since UAS are weapons and you're attached to them) but don't work for a regular WP. Weapon of Awe, Holy sword as a samarsun, Crusaders edge...

The sacred fist is extremely strong.

Fyi if this is for PFS you should know Pummeling Charge is no longer legal.

Quote:

Feats: all feats on pages 136-159 are legal for play, except Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Evolved Companion, Evolved Summoning, Pummeling Charge, and Spirit's Gift.

Yup, gods forbid you build a competent martial character in PFS.

Bigguyinblack wrote:

Fyi if this is for PFS you should know Pummeling Charge is no longer legal.

Quote:

Feats: all feats on pages 136-159 are legal for play, except Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Evolved Companion, Evolved Summoning, Pummeling Charge, and Spirit's Gift.

Yup, gods forbid you build a competent martial character in PFS.

You're pretty weak without flurry. If you're not flurrying you may as well not be attacking which somewhat prevents it from being good in PFS. That said the snake fang build exists and is extremely potent.

You're pretty weak without flurry. If you're not flurrying you may as well not be attacking...

Losing the BAB bonus is compensated for by not paying the flurry penalty, and possibly having Power Attack drop a little because of BAB drop. You're still potentially either making a single 2xSTR Dragon Style punch or making a single 1.5xSTR two-handed Power Attack; you're still looking at full-martial-level attack and damage thanks to your buff spell.

The sacred fist is at least in my personal opinion the strongest thing you can be doing without 9 levels of spell casting (The summoner doesn't count. Anything with gate 9+ times a day has 9th level casting).

I love the Warpriest and Sacred Fist, but I think a melee hunter with pack flanking is going to be stronger. Sharing all teamwork feats with your companion and automatically flanking everything with your companion is incredibly strong.

Undone wrote:

The sacred fist is at least in my personal opinion the strongest thing you can be doing without 9 levels of spell casting (The summoner doesn't count. Anything with gate 9+ times a day has 9th level casting).

I love the Warpriest and Sacred Fist, but I think a melee hunter with pack flanking is going to be stronger. Sharing all teamwork feats with your companion and automatically flanking everything with your companion is incredibly strong.

I think the sacred fist beats out hunter overall stronger on grounds of will saves alone.

The hunter also doesn't have access to the 8th level summons.