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Legendary Fighters (PFRPG) PDF

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Fight Me!

Legendary Fighters is the latest volume in our series of class-focused player supplements, this time focusing on the biggest, baddest, and best battlers in the game: the fighter! This exhaustive encyclopedia of martial matters brings you over 100 new and enhanced fighter-focused feats, archetypes, and class features, including armor mastery and weapon mastery techniques from dazzling intimidation and spell smash to armored confidence and warding shield. This book explores the core mechanics of the fighter, from weapon and armor training to bravery and more, plus adding new perseverance and prowess features to keep your unstoppable soldiers on the battlefield. It also compiles a massive collection of weapons and weapon groups from across 60 different sources. Best of all, it offers a newly reimagined fighter class, the legendary fighter, so you can use all the amazing ideas in this book to polish up your standard fighter or conquer the world with a whole new kind of martial master, with bonus archetypes from Lore Wardens to Living Weapons compatible with fighters of both types! Grab this amazing 60-page Pathfinder Roleplaying Game class supplement today and Make Your Game Legendary!

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An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5 —

This installment of the Legendary Class-redesigns/supplements clocks in at a mighty 62 pages, 1 page front cover, 1 page editorial, 2 pages of introduction, 2 pages of ToC, 4 pages of SRD, 1 page back cover, leaving us with 51 pages of content, so let’s take a look!

This review was moved up in my reviewing queue as a prioritized review at the request of my patreon supporters.

This book is, in its structure, akin to the phenomenal Legendary Rogues, in that it begins with a closer examination and expansion of the fighter class features, intended to provide means to differentiate the fighter class from other classes. As such, the book begins by taking a look at the advanced weapon training options introduced in the Weaponmaster’s Handbook – these allow for the replacement of the weapon training class feature at 9th, 13th and 17th level, and may alternatively be accessed via the Advanced Weapon Training feat, which fighters may take multiple times, but only once per 5 class levels attained. An updated version of said feat is included within, as the feat no longer requires a clause for the weapon master archetype. 19 such options have been included within this book, with the first of them allowing for weapon training bonus to be applied on combat maneuver checks with a chosen maneuver. There is also a means to enhance CMD, increase the save DC, if any, of effects caused by critical hits, quicker intimidation (with Dazzling Display synergy and means to combo it with e.g. Cornugon Smash), etc. Nice if you’re like me and enjoy, style-wise, some weapons that damage-die wise are less impressive: With focused weapon, you get a somewhat monk-ish damage progression for a weapon of your choice that you have Weapon Focus for, and scale its damage based on level, with the small table provided covering Small and Large size categories as well.

Cool one: These also include the option to expend an attacks of opportunity as an immediate action to add weapon training bonus to the saving throw, excluding ongoing magical effects; spell sundering and dispelling can also be found, and these two are not only mechanically great, they help make the fighter more viable and fun in high-magic contexts. Dexterity bonus to attack and Strength bonus to damage with thrown weapons as well as doubled weapon training bonus can be helpful as well – a helpful table sums these up, as well as their source, notes name-changes, if any, and we do get some guidance regarding implementation as well – big plus.

The next section pertains Weapon mastery feats, with Martial Focus as a specifically denoted gateway feat for non-fighters – and this feat is listed in the beginning, set apart with a shaded background. It may be a small thing, but seeing this one not hidden amidst a ton other feats made me smile from ear to ear – it’s really consumer-friendly and didactically-sensible presentation. Adaptive Counterstrike and Trade Blows, both with their own combat tricks, are included. Adaptive Counterstrike deserves special mention here: It’s the single best “analyze enemy”-type of feat I’ve seen in ages, and it doesn’t require wonky attack roll comparisons. Mechanically a boon for sore eyes. Trade Blows is similarly genius, making readied actions matter and allowing you to really harry targets. There may just be these two here, but quality trumps quantity any day of the week, and both of these are gamechangers. Speaking of making sense: If you’ve been adamant about playing by the book, you will have noticed weapon groups and associated lists being spread across different sources, including a blog post – well, fret not, for this book collects them in a sensible manner in one proper place. This is, once more, a thing that you may not immediately be stoked about, but the diligence that collected this list is something I genuinely applaud. And yes, there is a ginormous list that notes them all by source and whether or not they agree, allowing you to resolve conflicts of interpretation swiftly without having to resort to asking on the boards. This is amazing, very much the definition of going the extra mile.

You’ve probably seen it coming, so the presence of advanced armor training options probably is what you expected to see. However, what you probably did NOT expect to see, is that we begin with an analysis of the class feature, as the book highlights the issues and potentially rather limited appeal of this class feature. The ability also ranges in the power its component offers, and as such, the class feature is divided into two selectable pieces that no longer strand you with components of a class feature you simply can’t make use of. A total of 20 different armor training options may be found within this book, once more, like for the weapon training options, sporting the handy table that notes changes at one glance – for example for quick donning, or for unmoving, which now lets you select two different maneuvers. The section does, once more, come with an implementation guideline provided. Armor Focus, as an Armor Mastery feat, is included, and for your convenience, a massive table of such applicable feats, including sources, once more greatly helps navigating the breadth of options out there. At this point, the book has already a serious edge, as it acts as a brilliant reference book for fighter options.

From there on out, we move on to perseverance, which is the term employed for defensive resilience abilities; unless I’ve miscounted, there are 16 of these inside, and yes, e.g. bravery can be found here; this mean s that e.g. employing the content herein in conjunction with Michael Sayre’s Bravery Feats is very much possible. These features replace the armed bravery, and implementing them as the CRB bravery feature is an easy to grasp and super simple way of inciting players to remain in the fighter class instead of classing out of it. Additionally, the sequence in which these options are gained mirror the progression intervals of other fighter features, which generates a pleasant symmetry.
…don’t judge me, I can’t help it! I really like seeing symmetry and elegance in design, and this renders the fighter more pleasing from a rules-aesthetic point of view. Perhaps I’m weird, but in case you’re like me in that regard, I figured you’d like to know that. On the other side of things, while I never will become a huge fan of stalwart mettle (basically evasion for Fort- and Will-saves), it ultimately won’t break the game when made available to the fighter.

The next option array provided would be “Prowess” – these options represent the fighter’s meta-feats, which enhance combat feats, provide skill-based options, etc. – as the book correctly notices, there is a fine line between prowess and advanced weapon training options – but thankfully, the table does list such options with an asterisk, noting that they may be taken as either. It’s nice to see that the book doesn’t simply leave that aspect up to the GM and provides apt guidance. 21 such options are included for your convenience, and allow the fighter to gain skills and no longer be the dumb and useless brute outside of combat; there is an option for proficiency in an entire weapon group, a means for allies to share the fighter’s teamwork feats and options that render Style feat use more viable: Style Training lets you always be in one style and enter them as a free action, and Style Mastery lets you use more than one style feat simultaneously. The implementation of these options is explained analogue to the previous option categories – 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter are suggested, and detailed corner case rulings prevent confusion with e.g. Barroom Brawler. And yes, if you’ve always been irked by the fighter’s bad saves, there is an easy to implement optional rule/variant here. And while I noticed this before, you have probably guessed it at this point – this massive tome of fighter tweaks also provides the means to make the fighter less feat-starved.

Another issue that many a player has encountered, would be the requirement to invest in tertiary ability scores to meet the prerequisites of certain feats, and, you guessed it, the book does offer solutions for this, and contextualizes the fighter anno 2018 with other classes and their means to waive certain prerequisites and the like. I absolutely ADORE the concept of latent feats: Feats you’ve retrained, but which still count for the purpose of prerequisites. At 4th level, this suggested class feature is perfectly placed to avoid dipping-abuse and regarding when, during a fighter’s career, feats like Mobility or Dodge start becoming dead weight. Once more, a potential issue of the fighter can be resolved in a smooth and elegant way. (And no, they can’t be abused.)

Fighter-specific feats get their own table, with (Greater) penetrating Strike and Clustered Shots having their effects listed in a handy table – and once more, the reference table can be worth its weight in gold when planning your fighter. The book goes beyond that, retuning e.g. the gloves of dueling to work smoothly in conjunction with the massive option array presented. There are alternate rules here that render fighters still somewhat capable when employing nonproficient weapons, options that fortify weapons gripped by these martial masters, not dropping held weapons when panicked or stunned…nice. As an aside: One of my last campaign’s PCs, a super-high-powered gladiator-type, ALWAYS managed to fail saves versus dragons, losing multiple unique magic weapons this way, so yeah, these may not look like much, but they certainly do matter! The book then proceeds to present optional alternate rules for high-level fighters, like moving up to his speed before or after a full attack (making the fighter less static), not automatically missing on a natural 1, 1/round treating an attack roll as a 10 at 19th level…yeah.

So far, so good – a colossal grab-bag of fighter options to customize the class. Beyond that, we have the Legendary Fighter, who gets d10 HD, 4 + Intelligence modifier skills per level, proficiency with all simple and martial weapons as well as armor and shields, including tower shields, full BAB-progression and good Fort-saves. 1st level and every even levels thereafter net a bonus feat, and the fighter can choose 4 skills from a list to be added to the list of class skills, representing the skill-upgrade design paradigm mentioned before. The legendary fighter also takes the save-issue into account: He gets sharp reflexes, which nets +1 to Reflex saves, which further improves by +1 at 5th level and every 6 levels thereafter. 2nd level nets +1 to Will saves, which increases by another +1 at 10th level. The legendary fighter treats his ability scores as +1/2 class level higher for the purpose of meeting feat prerequisites starting at 2nd level, and 3rd level adds +1/3 class level to BAB for the purposes of prerequisites, capping at +5. Also at 3rd level, we have an advanced weapon training, with an additional one gained at 7th, 11th and 15th level. Also at 3rd level, the fighter may don the more problematic heavy armors sans aid and gains advanced armor training options at 5th, 9th and 13th level. Also at third level, we have a +1 bonus to atk and damage with all proficient weapons, and to combat maneuver checks executed with said weaponry and to CMD versus weapon targeting maneuvers. The bonus increases by +1 at 7th, 11th and 15th level.

4th level implements aforementioned feat-retraining options, including the genius latent feats engine, and also introduces prowess options. Proper weapon grip, aforementioned high-level skirmishing option – at this point you have noticed it, right? Yep, this class is basically the result of implementing all those modular class features in a concise manner. And here is where the book once more walks the extra mile that separates a good or very good book from an excellent one – it starts talking about archetype use in conjunction with the legendary fighter, providing concise and easy to grasp guidelines to use them in conjunction with the class, including how to deal with underpowered archetypes, with redundant abilities, etc. And guess what: Yes, we do get a HUGE table of archetypes, with sources listed and modifications noted. Want to play a pack mule legendary fighter? Just check the table. A.W.E.S.O.M.E.!

If your system mastery at this point is rather pronounced, you’ll know that e.g. armor master, lore warden, unbreakable or weapon master require some more love, right? Well, guess what: This book covers them in detail. Oh, and the pdf offers “simple” archetypes – these present the last tools you need to make this engine slot in seamlessly with pretty much anything: Exotic weapon wielders, living weapons, stamina adherents, spirit warriors – ALL ARE COVERED.

Conclusion:
Editing and formatting are top-notch on a formal and rules-language level. Layout adheres to a 2-column full-color standard, with most artworks being classics that fans of Legendary Games will be familiar with. The pdf comes fully bookmarked for your convenience.

I won’t lie, I did not really look forward to reviewing this fighter-rebuild. I have read more than my share of them, and e.g. Alexander Augunas’ Unchained Fighter sated my thirst for a Stamina-bar-based fighter rather aptly.

Here’s the thing: Matt Goodall’s Legendary Fighter does not seek to become a competition for that class, and they actually work rather smoothly in the same campaign, offering different playing experiences.

More than just a class, though, this is basically the “Teach you how to make the fighter awesome”-book. Instead of presuming to be aware of all realities of tables out there, this book takes the ultimate high-road: It presents awesome rules, and explains the consequences of their implementation, the design rationale behind them, allowing the customer to make informed decisions regarding the implementation of all modified class features herein. This is a GIGANTIC plus, and in an ideal world, would be the standard.
Let’s say you’re playing a Greyhawk-like campaign, with an emphasis of gritty low magic, and you’re actually happy with how the fighter works – for the most part. Your group doesn’t need too much tactical finesse and doesn’t feature much minmaxing, but the skill situation sucks, and so does the save stuff. Great, you can read this book, make an informed decision and just include these components! On the other side of the spectrum, veteran number-crunchers and connoisseurs of diverse options finally get a fighter class that is on par with more recent releases, that has a vast plethora of unique tools at its disposal, and that is rewarding and versatile to play. From latent feats to the small details, this oozes care and a genuine love for the fighter, one that translates into a master-class supplement.

Oh, a supplement that also represents a massive reference tome that helps you navigate the intricacies of PFRPG. From magic items to archetypes, this does not simply slam down great content – it provides the content, sure. But it also explains in a didactically-sensible manner why and how these design decisions have been made. This book, in a way, is a guideline for you to emancipate, in the Kantian sense, the fighter class, making it what YOU think it should be. Oh, and even if design and tinkering are not things that catch your interest, guess what – the Legendary Fighter, as the whole-deal comfort package has you covered.

This is a master-class book, even when looked at within the context of this series’ exceedingly high standards. My final verdict will clock in at 5 stars + seal of approval, and, you’ve probably seen it coming, this is a candidate for my Top Ten of 2018. Don’t wait – finally make the fighter class that fits your game!

Endzeitgeist out.

Your new Flexible Fighter - no longer just the feat guy

5/5 —

I have been looking for a new fighter class for a while. Between other people’s homebrew, the various archetypes and 3rd party. Legendary has everything I was looking for; fighter specific abilities, true choices (besides feats) almost every level, more skillful, some cool things with latent feats without stepping on the brawler’s toes and some higher level abilities that are not just more numbers.
Favorites: Rapid attack at 11th level can move and full attack. Explaining how all current archetypes work with the legendary fighter. I also really enjoyed the sections where LG explained why they made the choices they did. I also really enjoyed how they broke armor training up so you only needed to select the pieces you wanted.

All in all, I think the Legendary fighter is far more flexible and adaptable than the core “feat guy” fighter. It also does not "need" an archetype to "fix" him. I would put him on par with the other martials like paladin, barbarian and ranger.

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Does the Legendary Fighter have more utility to it than a standard fighter?
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can anyone give any hints as to how well this matches up to the 'Everyman Unchained Fighter' from Everyman/Rogue Genius? I hope they can be made to work together, as I truly love the Unchained Fighter even as I know this will also be an amazing piece of work.

Really, please, any further clues as to what the PDF contains will be vastly appreciated!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Eric Hinkle wrote:

Can anyone give any hints as to how well this matches up to the 'Everyman Unchained Fighter' from Everyman/Rogue Genius? I hope they can be made to work together, as I truly love the Unchained Fighter even as I know this will also be an amazing piece of work.

Really, please, any further clues as to what the PDF contains will be vastly appreciated!

In a nutshell, more advanced armor training options, more advanced weapon training options, two new types of fighter class feature - perseverance options and prowess options. Ways to fix the fighter chassis to make it comparable with other martial classes. Options to allow fighters to take combat feats easier and earlier by reducing prerequisites. And brought all together to make a Legendary Fighter that is reasonably compatible with existing archetypes. Conversion notes for all Paizo published fighter archetypes as well as some new archetypes.

Perseverance options are 'resilience' options that allow the fighter to keep going in spite of the adversities of combat. Some examples include Hard-bitten which reduces the damage from critical hits and effects triggered by critical hits, and Dogged Obstinacy which grants bonuses when attempting the same action repeatedly.

Prowess options are what I started out calling 'metafeat' options. They allow a fighter to do more or gain more from skills and combat feats. Some examples include, Friendly Persuasion lets a fighter use his Intimidate bonus on Diplomacy checks and Latent Recall the fighter gains an additional latent feat and can gain the benefits of a latent feat as a move action. What's a latent feat? It's what I call a tax rebate for all the feat taxes that martial classes often have to pay.

Is it compatible with EMG's Unchained Fighter? A lot of the options are, but I've gone a different path to the UF. It is a lot like Legendary Rogues, there is a whole arsenel of new options and you can pick which ones you want to use.

Milo v3 wrote:
Does the Legendary Fighter have more utility to it than a standard fighter?

I'm hoping that the legendary fighter feels and plays like a badass, and your players will consider it an equal choice to a barbarian, slayer, or ranger.

Matt Goodall wrote:
I'm hoping that the legendary fighter feels and plays like a badass, and your players will consider it an equal choice to a barbarian, slayer, or ranger.

So that's a no then.... ?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010

If you are asking for Legendary Fighters to solve the caster martial disparity, then no that isn't the aim of this product. My aim was to make the fighter a class that is competitive with other martial classes.
Shadow Lodge

How does the Intimidate/Diplomacy option compare to the use of Intimidate that does Diplomacy already?
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

So nice to see this book out in the wild at long last. It brings a lot more fun and versatility to the fighter class. I think people will definitely enjoy it.

It also offers plenty of material that is well-suited to a standard core rules fighter, even if you don't go all in with the new variant Legendary Fighter alt class.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
Dragonborn3 wrote:
How does the Intimidate/Diplomacy option compare to the use of Intimidate that does Diplomacy already?

The influence opponent's attitude option of the Intimidate skill only lasts for 1d6x10 minutes, the target only provides limited assistance, and after it expires the target treats you as unfriendly and may report you to local authorities.

However, with this prowess option it is like a normal Diplomacy check and none of the above limits apply.
Shadow Lodge

A class feature that makes one skill two. I like it.
Matt Goodall wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:

Can anyone give any hints as to how well this matches up to the 'Everyman Unchained Fighter' from Everyman/Rogue Genius? I hope they can be made to work together, as I truly love the Unchained Fighter even as I know this will also be an amazing piece of work.

Really, please, any further clues as to what the PDF contains will be vastly appreciated!

In a nutshell, more advanced armor training options, more advanced weapon training options, two new types of fighter class feature - perseverance options and prowess options. Ways to fix the fighter chassis to make it comparable with other martial classes. Options to allow fighters to take combat feats easier and earlier by reducing prerequisites. And brought all together to make a Legendary Fighter that is reasonably compatible with existing archetypes. Conversion notes for all Paizo published fighter archetypes as well as some new archetypes.

Perseverance options are 'resilience' options that allow the fighter to keep going in spite of the adversities of combat. Some examples include Hard-bitten which reduces the damage from critical hits and effects triggered by critical hits, and Dogged Obstinacy which grants bonuses when attempting the same action repeatedly.

Prowess options are what I started out calling 'metafeat' options. They allow a fighter to do more or gain more from skills and combat feats. Some examples include, Friendly Persuasion lets a fighter use his Intimidate bonus on Diplomacy checks and Latent Recall the fighter gains an additional latent feat and can gain the benefits of a latent feat as a move action. What's a latent feat? It's what I call a tax rebate for all the feat taxes that martial classes often have to pay.

Is it compatible with EMG's Unchained Fighter? A lot of the options are, but I've gone a different path to the UF. It is a lot like Legendary Rogues, there is a whole arsenel of new options and you can pick which ones you want to use.

"Milo... [/QUOTE wrote:

Thank you Mr. Goodall for that lengthy and very helpful response.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Still working my way through this, but loving it so far. I might even have to figure out how to build it in Hero Lab to replace the core fighter.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
2 people marked this as a favorite.

The first of my big 'must haves' for this were to have pretty much every fighter archetype retain weapon training and armor training, that way every fighter can access advanced weapon training options and advanced armor training options. The second was to make the legendary fighter reasonably compatible with existing archetypes, some of the more non-standard archetypes required either a few notes or a redesign of the archetype, but the conversion notes in Legendary Fighters should allow any future archetypes to be converted with minimum fuss.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010

I hope that people are enjoying this one. Let me know if there's anything you want clarified, or have comments or questions about why I went a specific way with certain options.
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

The response to this book has been very nice - I'd love to see Chemlak's (or anyone else's) thoughts in a review now that you've had some time to digest it!
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Before I do my review, I need to recreate a certain character of mine as a Legendary Fighter, and see how he plays compared to the core fighter and slayer versions of him (expectation - he’ll be closer to the vision of him I’ve had since 1987 than core fighter, but slayer might give the LF a run for its money).

I will tease my review a bit, though: I see what you did, there, and that’s niiiiice.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks Chemlak, my goal wasn't to outdo the slayer or barbarian etc., but to make the fighter a legitimate choice that stands alongside other modern martials and still has his own design space. Certain character concepts may work better as a slayer and that's ok; each class should have its selling points.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I absolutely understand, Matt. I have some specific build choices that I’ve gone for, and the aim for me is to see if I can be relatively effective without too many moving parts (core fighter is simple: hit with big stick; slayer is harder: try to flank, study target(s), remember your talents, hit with big stick).

Without going into too much detail here, your detailed analysis of the fighter, the niche it tries to fill, the balance of the existing fighter class features, and how to adjust things to both meet the existing options and expand on the class’s capabilities is extremely impressive, so I have high hopes, not in terms of damage output, but of my choices being meaningful and able to change how the character plays to meet my vision of it.

I have one question about the legendary fighter class. In the description for advanced armor training, it says the fighter gets to pick one at levels 3, 7, 11, and 15, while the description for regular armor training says the fighter gets an advanced armor training option at levels 3, 5, 9, and 13. Was one of those supposed to say something else, or does the legendary fighter actually get one at all those levels?

Never mind. I get it now. Shouldn't have done my first read through at 1:00 in the morning.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010

Yep, the legendary fighter gets 2 sets of 4 armor options. For two reasons, to break down armor training into smaller pieces which makes it easier to balance the options against each other and so that existing archetypes which trade out armor training still retain 1 set of armor options and so still count as having the armor training class feature.

I was considering listing it as one big class feature that the fighter gets 8 options from, but this way makes it a lot easier to see what gets replaced when applying archetypes.
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
5 people marked this as a favorite.

Congrats to Legendary Fighters for spending well over a month in the Top Ten Downloads here at Paizo, including two straight weeks at number one!

Reviewed first on endzeitgeist.com, then submitted to Nerdtrek and GMS magazine and posted here, on OBS, etc.

I know it has been over a year since the release of this book, but I have a question regarding the Latent Feats class ability of the Legendary Fighter. Basically, can a Legendary Fighter turn feats like Defended Movement (a Shield Mastery feat; shield mastery feats counts as combat feats for all purposes) and Dirty Fighting (a combat feat) into latent feats?

For example, in the Special section of the feat's description, Defended Movement counts as Dodge and Mobility for the purposes of feats that have Dodge and Mobility as prerequisites. If a Legendary Fighter turns Defended Movement into a latent feat, can he/she use that latent feat to qualify for Spring Attack at the next available opportunity?

Similarly, could a Legendary Fighter turn Dirty Fighting into a latent feat and then pick up, as an example, Crashing Wave Style (so long as he/she had the necessary Wisdom score and Power Attack feat)?

Thanks in advance for any clarifications.

CB

This is just my interpretation, but I think the core verbiage component here is:

"The fighter still counts as having a latent feat
for the purpose of prerequisites but cannot make use of
that feat’s benefits."

RAW, the "purpose of prerequisites" imho means just that the character is treated as though he had the latent feat for checking the "Prerequisites" -line of other feats, not any additional benefits like the Special-line tricks, which I'd consider to be benefits, even if they affect prerequisites.

That's how I'd handle it *officially.*

Now, in my home-game, for Defended Movement, considering its prerequisites, I'd allow it to be treated as Dodge and Mobility when turned latent.

For Dirty Fighting, I'd make the call that this one goes too far, and require it to stay non-latent.

Just my 2 cents! :D
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
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Endzeitgeist has it correct on how it is meant to work officially.

And like him, in a home game I'd also consider allowing those types of feats (when made latent), to let a legendary fighter jump two steps deeper into a feat chain.

Some feat chains are super long and the feats at the end are often not as good as the ones in the middle.

Some other things to consider which could help when digging into those long feat chains:
Defended Movement is a shield mastery feat which means a fighter can access it as an advanced armor training option via the armored master option.
The latent recall prowess option increases by 1 the maximum number of latent feats a legendary fighter can have.

I appreciate the feedback, and yes, this is for a home game. :)

I am doing a "tank-bodyguard" build for the cohort of one of the player's pcs. Problem is that it is extremely hard to build a npc tank-bodyguard build out of a pure fighter by 9th level. The following feats are needed at the bare minimum (in no particular order):

Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Bodyguard, Mobility, Vanguard Style, Combat Patrol, Saving Shield, Vanguard Ward, Vanguard Hustle, Outflank, Harrying Partners, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Dazzling Display, Call Out (or similarly feat to taunt the enemy), and Shatter Defences. Working in one of the improved combat manoeuvres, Stand Still, or Spring Attack would be nice. Swift Aid is also a feat I'd for the cohort but so long as he keeps the PC adjacent to him or within his threatened range once he has Combat Patrol, Swift Aid isn't strictly necessary (at least I don't think so).

Problem is that there is a lot of feats to cover and it is very hard to ensure the fighter also maintains an acceptable level of offence while protecting the PC from harm (the PC has an abysmal AC but it fits the character concept as a merchant).

Still, with the Legendary Fighter, I am a lot closer to getting the build nearly right for 9th level. I just wish Pathfinder had a more reliable means of drawing aggro towards the tank/bodyguard. Maybe there is an advanced weapon training option or perhaps a prowess option that could cover that? (HINT, HINT, make a supplement product for the Legendary Fighter, ;) )

CB
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
1 person marked this as a favorite.

Number 4 in Endzeitgeist's Top 10 for 2018! :D

@Canadian Bakka: Everybody Games' take on antagonize (first featured in Psychological Combat, then in Ultimate Charisma) as a demoralize/feint-like trick has been in use for quite a while at my table for representing "drawing aggro". :D
Endzeitgeist wrote:
@Canadian Bakka: Everybody Games' take on antagonize (first featured in Psychological Combat, then in Ultimate Charisma) as a demoralize/feint-like trick has been in use for quite a while at my table for representing "drawing aggro". :D

Indeed, I had forgotten that I had the Everyman Gaming's Ultimate Charisma book from a while back. I have implemented the rules described therein for antagonizing foes into my homebrewed campaign version of Kingmaker about 2 months ago. It is handy to have but my players keep forgetting about it. Now that I am currently running a heavily modified Courts of the Shadow Fey, I will use it a fair bit during the dueling seasons to really antagonize the PCs.

Cheers!

CB
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Antagonize them. Srsly. And roleplay it. They will hate the NPC, and they WILL remember the maneuver. ;)

I am getting a lot of use out of this product since I decided to use it to replace the base Fighter class for PF1 - currently I am re-doing the duelists the PCs can fight against in the Courts of the Shadow Fey adventure module. ;)

Anyways, onto something that confuses me (again): the Armed Maneuver advanced weapon training option does not make much sense. It allows the Legendary Fighter to add their weapon training bonus to CMB rolls with a selected maneuver (bull rush, dirty trick, grapple, overrun, or steal), but the Weapon Training class feature already does that (they can add their Weapon Training bonus to *all* CMB rolls they make with weapons they are proficient in).

In addition, the Armed Maneuver advanced weapon training option says you can add your weapon's enhancement bonus to the selected combat maneuver, but you already can do that normally with a combat maneuver (since they are attack rolls, as described on page 199 of the Core Rules book), as long as the weapon can be used for that combat maneuver (or at least reasonably so), such as bull rush, right?

So basically, it seems like the biggest reason to take the Armed Maneuver advanced weapon training option is if its bonus (which equal to the weapon training bonus) is meant to be a doubling of the weapon training bonus. Otherwise, why bother taking that advanced weapon training option?

Cheers!

CB

I take back what I said about Armed Maneuver not making any sense.

I see where I misinterpreted things; primarily that if you are using a manufactured weapon, you can only attempt disarm, sunder, and trip maneuvers with that manufactured weapon normally (as clarified in a Paizo Blog), so other combat maneuvers (like bull rush, dirty trick, etc.) would not normally be allowed with that weapon so the bonus from weapon training does not apply.

The benefits of Armed Maneuver are much clearer to me now.

CB
Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Glad to see you are getting great use out of the book!

I'll also toss in that after a bit of writer's block on the part of the original authors, both Legendary Clerics and Legendary Bloodragers have some new writing partners coming on board to bring them home, so we look forward to having them ready hopefully in February!

Out of curiosity, what class features of the Legendary Fighter should be allowed to be "re-trained" if one were to use the Re-training rules from Ultimate Campaign (Page 188)?

Personally, I think class features like the advanced armour training options, advanced weapon training options, and prowess options should be able to be re-trained. Not sure about perseverance options though - most of those are thematically viewed as "mental fortitude" or "spiritual training," whereas the rest are more skill-based or physical in nature.

What would you recommend?

CB
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010
2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd be ok with any of four types of selectable class feature (advanced armour training options, advanced weapon training options, prowess options, and perseverance options) being retrained. I do agree that perseverance options should be one of the harder options to retrain. Personally I'd probably go with 20 days to retrain one of those, 10 days at the very minimum.

(Steeples my fingers together like a 90's villain.)

Exxxcellent.
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