Aldori Swordlords and the name Aldori - when do you change your name?

At what point does a character qualify for the title of Swordlord and at what point does a character change their family name to 'Aldori'.

To my mind a character counts as a fully trained when the character obtains Aldori Dueling Mastery as a feat but I am not sure if thats the point that the character is now considered a Swordlord?

Incidently there used to be a feat that you could get around 12th level that gave you a D4 damage and iirc an extra attack but I can't find that anywhere now. Anyone recall the feat?

The Aldori Swordlord fighter archetype's first ability replacement is at level 3, so maybe around then?

I also make a distinction between the Aldori in Brevoy and the Aldori in Mivon as well.

Those in Mivon identify themselves as one of nine houses, and none of those listed in the Guide to the River Kingdoms list their family name as 'Aldori'.

Yeah, you are either a student at the Aldori fighting acadamae or one of the Aldori family of swordlords of Brevoy.

The Aldori sword acadamae is found in Rostland a region in Brevoy. The school it'self was founded by Sirian Aldori.

Oh and you don't change your family name to Aldori. Not unless the family it'self adopts your character.

Oh and you don't change your family name to Aldori. Not unless the family it'self adopts your character.

I got this from the Pathfinder Wikia

Answering to the name Sirian Aldori, the "Sword Baron" challenged to bandit lord to a rematch and defeated him handily in seconds. He followed this with a standing offer of 100,000gp as a reward for any who could best him in a battle of blades. None could defeat him, whether through legitimate means or trickery and magic. At first, Aldori refused to teach any his techniques, but he eventually capitulated and began to train a select group of swordsmen under the condition that they each swore to change their name to Aldori and never teach their techniques to any outside the swordpact. These swordsmen became known as the Aldori swordlords. They ruled Rostland for generations, each as prickly and impulsive as the order's founder.

One of the notable swordsmen mentioned by name, Brinian Aldori, appears to have changed his name as he was originally a second son of a minor noble of Rostland

Not saying you are wrong, I have very little information to go off.

Part of the issue is that the information is contradictory. In Rostland/Brevoy, the rule seems to be that you change your name and become a Swordlord, except that there is at least once example (in Kingmaker) of a 'low-ranking' Sword Lord that does not have an Aldori name (IMC, he gave up the Aldori name when he went on the expedition, since he knew that he wouldn't be able to pass his gains onto his heirs).

In Mivon, none of the Swordlords seem to have the Aldori name.

Personally, I would say that you *could* be an Aldori as soon as you get the Aldori Dueling Mastery, but that others wait until they feel more comfortable with their skills.

The short answer is that you should do what feels right for your campaign...

In my kingmaker campaign I ruled that the swordlords strive towards the Duelist PrC. Once the character achieves the first level of duelist they change their name to Aldori.

Again this is only in my campaign.

In my kingmaker campaign I ruled that the swordlords strive towards the Duelist PrC. Once the character achieves the first level of duelist they change their name to Aldori.

Again this is only in my campaign.

Interesting PoV. Worth thinking about at any rate. I consider duelist to be a slightly substandard class let alone a PrC but there are some great defensive and stylistic features that lend themselves well to the Aldori, to say nothing of the fact that Aldori Dueling mastery (or is it the archetype?) specifically calls out entry to the PrC.

Where can you find the Aldori archetype? (I used the freehand fighter or one handed fighter can't remember the actual name.)

Where can you find the Aldori archetype? (I used the freehand fighter or one handed fighter can't remember the actual name.)

The Inner Sea Primer

We started Kingmaker with 3 future Aldori. The future king was an Arcane Duelist Bard. His master of assasins a rogue (from Mivon) who went freehand fighter then duelist. His Champion aa Weapon Master Monk who swapped all of his weapon prof for a fluriable Aldori Dueling Sword.

The Monk started with the name Aldori, he was trained at the burned out monastery where the Swordlords made their last stand against the Great Red Dragon.

The King took the name Aldori after he slaughterd the Bandit known as the Stag Lord, about level 5.

The Rogue took the name at about the point he became a Duelist. clvl 9

They were all lvl 5 before we got our hands on the Innersea Primer or the Campaign Book.

I like the Aldori Dueling Mastery Feat as the definitive place to take the name.

BornofHate wrote:

Where can you find the Aldori archetype? (I used the freehand fighter or one handed fighter can't remember the actual name.)

The Inner Sea Primer

It's also listed in the d20pfsrd, if you go look for it.

Some nice abiilties that dovetail strongly with Crane and Jaguar styles.

==Aelryinth

BornofHate wrote:

In my kingmaker campaign I ruled that the swordlords strive towards the Duelist PrC. Once the character achieves the first level of duelist they change their name to Aldori.

Again this is only in my campaign.

Interesting PoV. Worth thinking about at any rate. I consider duelist to be a slightly substandard class let alone a PrC but there are some great defensive and stylistic features that lend themselves well to the Aldori, to say nothing of the fact that Aldori Dueling mastery (or is it the archetype?) specifically calls out entry to the PrC.

I actually found the Duelist to be pretty tough when added to a Free Hand Fighter/Rogue build. Now that I've seen Crane Style I can't help but hink tht would make for an awesome combo.

Crane Wing + Combat Exprtise + INT to AC from Duelist + DEX = crazy AC.

Also (completely house ruled) Monk flurry with the Duelist Damage is Kinda silly with an Agile Weapon.

Helaman wrote:

BornofHate wrote:

In my kingmaker campaign I ruled that the swordlords strive towards the Duelist PrC. Once the character achieves the first level of duelist they change their name to Aldori.

Again this is only in my campaign.

Interesting PoV. Worth thinking about at any rate. I consider duelist to be a slightly substandard class let alone a PrC but there are some great defensive and stylistic features that lend themselves well to the Aldori, to say nothing of the fact that Aldori Dueling mastery (or is it the archetype?) specifically calls out entry to the PrC.

I actually found the Duelist to be pretty tough when added to a Free Hand Fighter/Rogue build. Now that I've seen Crane Style I can't help but hink tht would make for an awesome combo.

Crane Wing + Combat Exprtise + INT to AC from Duelist + DEX = crazy AC.

Also (completely house ruled) Monk flurry with the Duelist Damage is Kinda silly with an Agile Weapon.

Try the Aldori Archetype thing at 7th level - can fight defensively and get +2 to hit (so takes the -4 to hit to -2) and +2 to AC (making it +4 AC), then add in the crane benefit of +1 AC when fighting defensively (+5 AC now) and +2 to negate the penalty for fighting defensively = +0 to hit (base numbers) and +5 to AC... assuming you also have 3 ranks of acrobatics (non class skill) by 7th level you get another +1 AC for fighting defensively... all for no impact to your BAB.

Edit

Combat Expertise (Combat)

You can increase your defense at the expense of your accuracy.

Prerequisite: Int 13.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the dodge bonus increases by +1. You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or a full-attack action with a melee weapon. The effects of this feat last until your next turn.

Wonder if combat expertise works with defensive fighting as I know you can use defensive fighting and attack and full attack options. That would be insane AC if it does and I think it might...

So level 8, fight defensively attack action using combat expertise generates +8 AC with a mere -2 to hit.

Ain't the "style" feats supposed to be for unarmed combat? How could you be using unarmed techniques while fighting with a sword?

I'm a bit confused on this one...

Ain't the "style" feats supposed to be for unarmed combat? How could you be using unarmed techniques while fighting with a sword?

I'm a bit confused on this one...

Nope - unlike a lot of the style feats (which go to some trouble to) neither the crane or panther style specify unarmed combat.

Yes you can use Combat Expertise while fighting defensively.

Yes you can use Combat Expertise while fighting defensively.

Looks like I need to bump my 12 Int to 13 :)

Nope - unlike a lot of the style feats (which go to some trouble to) neither the crane or panther style specify unarmed combat.

Based on the PRD both Crane and Panther style have "Improved Unarmed Strike" as a prerequisite. But if they weren't related to unarmed, wouldn't it defeat the essence/flavor of the Style feats to used them with weapons?

Just my two cc

I think you only get to take the name if you're one of the RULING Swordlords.

My free-hand fighter/kensai PC wanted to put distance between himself and his Machiavellian eugenics-leaning birth family, and did so by joining the Brevoy swordpact and changing his name to Aldori as soon as he could.

Helaman wrote:

Nope - unlike a lot of the style feats (which go to some trouble to) neither the crane or panther style specify unarmed combat.

Based on the PRD both Crane and Panther style have "Improved Unarmed Strike" as a prerequisite. But if they weren't related to unarmed, wouldn't it defeat the essence/flavor of the Style feats to used them with weapons?

Just my two cc

Wing Chun is built on unarmed combat but the same training then leads into butterfly swords, escrima does unarmed AND stick fighting, and as for ninjitsu?

The principles of taijutsu also provide the foundation for combat with weapons. The loose, adaptive body postures and movement readily accommodate any weapon, making it a mere extension of the base technique.

Crane style as the foundation for weapons training?

The same two-person set fighting paradigm is used for many of the weapons forms,8 beginning with White Crane's famed Seven Star Staff (Chi Sing Guen). Along with the spear (Chiang), three-sectional staff (San jie guen), halberd or General Kwan's Broadsword (Kwan Dao), cane (Gwaijian), Horse Cutter Broadsword (Jam Ma Dao), and the tiger fork (Fu Cha), there are several double weapons in traditional White Crane. These include the double iron rods (Swan jien) which are similar to Japanese sai, the double broadswords (Bai Her Dao), and the southern short swords (Nan Dao). Single weapons include: Single Broadsword (Dao), Straight sword (Dsien) and Fan (San Tse). There are over 80 empty hand forms in the Flying Crane style. Some are very short, others rather long. There are also a great many weapons forms.

Monks could use crane style armed or unarmed right? Same difference.

I am arguing RAI but by a RAW perspective its not required.

Helaman wrote:

Nope - unlike a lot of the style feats (which go to some trouble to) neither the crane or panther style specify unarmed combat.

Based on the PRD both Crane and Panther style have "Improved Unarmed Strike" as a prerequisite. But if they weren't related to unarmed, wouldn't it defeat the essence/flavor of the Style feats to used them with weapons?

Just my two cc

They require unarmed strike yes, but that's simply for the learning of the more advanced parts of how to use the empty hand to not get stabbed. Please note the only requirement to actually using crane style is having one hand empty.

...lots of interesting stuff...

Thank you, I wasn't aware of all the ramifications between unarmed and armed martial arts.

Presented this way, it's a really pertinent build for an Asian themed duelist.

Several of the specific techniques I learned for unarmed combat were specifically supposed to disarm your opponent so you could use their weapons -- in fact my understanding of northern eagle style is that it was developed for military use in the event of being disarmed, and typically includes maneuvers that pull the enemy into your fellow soldier's pikes, or steals his weapons for your own use -- it has a lot of back and forth in a limited space because it was designed with polearms in mind: Give up a step to take three forward but only with the rest of the line.

There is a prestige class for Sword lord..so that is when I would say you would take the full title imo.

I'd say around level 3, maybe 5 ish. Sure you could claim the title before that if you wanted to, but a level 3+ character, martials inparticular, usually have enough HP to tank a great-axe to the face without dying, and is equipped with around 3k (or 1.6k in case of heroic npcs) gold pieces worth of loot. Also at this point, soloing 2 or 3 orcs at once is considered an average challenge for you, so I'd say you'd be fine claiming the title of Swordlord by then.

-Nearyn