Pathfinder Tales: Shy Knives

I am intrigued.

Never heard of the writer. However, just a bit of research and I find he's the son of that chick who wrote the Outlander series. So, that's a strike against him.

Seriously?

Never heard of the writer. However, just a bit of research and I find he's the son of that chick who wrote the Outlander series. So, that's a strike against him.

Because most kids have exactly the same tastes as their parents?

Diana Gabaldon is an extraordinarily popular and well-regarded writer in her field. Describing her as "that chick" is reductive and insulting to say the very least.

And Sam Sykes is a fine fantasy writer.

Never heard of the writer. However, just a bit of research and I find he's the son of that chick who wrote the Outlander series. So, that's a strike against him.

My my, how low have the mighty fallen.

His first book is awful.
I just read a sample chapter.
Amazon.de has 43 ratings - 15 of them are 1 star and the average is 2 and a half.

Sorry, but i'll pass on this one - unless i read a sample chapter from it that really flashes me.

Aberzombie wrote:

Never heard of the writer. However, just a bit of research and I find he's the son of that chick who wrote the Outlander series. So, that's a strike against him.

Because most kids have exactly the same tastes as their parents?

No. Because he must be made to pay for his mother's sin of inflicting my life with that damned book series, from which they made the TV series my wife loves to torment me with.

Yes, I know it's irrational.

I also wouldn't read his stuff because he's significantly younger than me.

Describing her as "that chick" is reductive and insulting to say the very least.

I describe lots of people as "that chick". Some of them are even female.

Aberzombie wrote:

Never heard of the writer. However, just a bit of research and I find he's the son of that chick who wrote the Outlander series. So, that's a strike against him.

My my, how low have the mighty fallen.

I'm mighty? This is news.

Diana Gabaldon is an extraordinarily popular and well-regarded writer in her field. Describing her as "that chick" is reductive and insulting to say the very least.

And Sam Sykes is a fine fantasy writer.

I don't think Aberzombie meant that as a sexist comment, even if it is a bit unfortunately chosen. To me as a guy from germany it sounds colloquiel.

And to my tastes Sam Sykes hasn't written anything fine that i know of.
That may change with this book or it may not.
If a sample chapter can pick my interest, i'll give it a shot.
The title could be better though.
It sounds very strange...

I don't think Aberzombie meant that as a sexist comment....

Actually....

I like you. I think I'll add you to the List of People to be Eaten Last during the Zombiepocalypse.

To be honest, this debate has just triggered my nepotism radar.

I worry about people who are clearly 'connected' and might not have had the same pressure to prove themselves.

Paizo have produced some very fine writers but, as a subscriber, my collection has four or five real stinkers.

So, I looked at some samples

Seems a bit wordy and pleased with itself but there is hope for the writer. That's a common flaw in a first novel.

.....there is hope for the writer. That's a common flaw in a first novel.

Plus, he's like...what?...not even 30. Shouldn't he still be leeching off his wealthy mom, instead of out there trying to make it on his own (so to speak). What they hell is he thinking, setting that kind of example for other young people?

Then again, REH had been a successful writer and tragic suicide by that age.

I don't see what either the author's age or parentage to has to do with his work.

There have been many, many writers who produced extraordinary work before they were 20, much less 30. There have been many fine writers who were the children of other writers.

Sam's work is to your taste or it isn't. He's certainly enjoyed critical and popular success here in the States with his book from Orbit.

I don't see what either the author's age or parentage to has to do with his work.

The age thing is personal preference. I find a lot of young folks these days to be annoying, and young writers seem adept at channeling what I find annoying into their work.

As for parentage, in this case it's once again personal preference (the specifics of which I mentioned up thread). Other than that, I could give two s#~$s less whether some famous writer's kid tried their hand at writing. Or any famous artist/entertainer for that matter. Talent does have a habit of running in the family on occasion. From what I understand, Stephen King's kid is a pretty decent writer.

*sees cover*

Oooooo... I like!

A halfling rogue and a centaur fighter?
Hm, odd couple.

A halfling rogue and a centaur fighter?

Hm, odd couple.

Reminds about the pair from the old AD&D comic....though that was a dwarf not a halfling..though close enough.

They don't look like a couple to me (At least not a healthy one).

Also I'm not sure the woman is a halfling, her proportions are more in line with a human, the megataur Dood might just be really friggin big.

To me it looks that they are fighting each other. Which makes sense if the centaur is the Hellknight shown on the old Cheliax book and she is a halfling connected to the Bellflower Tillers. OTOH, in the background we see yurts--sooooo, maybe something set in Iobaria where centaurs are more numereous? *keeps fingers crossed*

Ruyan.

To me it looks that they are fighting each other. Which makes sense if the centaur is the Hellknight shown on the old Cheliax book and she is a halfling connected to the Bellflower Tillers. OTOH, in the background we see yurts--sooooo, maybe something set in Iobaria where centaurs are more numereous? *keeps fingers crossed*

Ruyan.

The Hellknight centaur was female I'm pretty sure.

The Centuar's armor and equipment, and the background do evoke an Iobarian feel though.

RuyanVe wrote:

To me it looks that they are fighting each other. Which makes sense if the centaur is the Hellknight shown on the old Cheliax book and she is a halfling connected to the Bellflower Tillers. OTOH, in the background we see yurts--sooooo, maybe something set in Iobaria where centaurs are more numereous? *keeps fingers crossed*

Ruyan.

The Hellknight centaur was female I'm pretty sure.

The Centuar's armor and equipment, and the background do evoke an Iobarian feel though.

I assume you're thinking of Mistress of Blades Maidrayne Vox, who is female. However, the one RuyanVe is referring to is probably the one on the cover of Cheliax: Empire of Devils, who is male.

That said, the Iobarian guess seems strong.

Rysky wrote:

RuyanVe wrote:

To me it looks that they are fighting each other. Which makes sense if the centaur is the Hellknight shown on the old Cheliax book and she is a halfling connected to the Bellflower Tillers. OTOH, in the background we see yurts--sooooo, maybe something set in Iobaria where centaurs are more numereous? *keeps fingers crossed*

Ruyan.

The Hellknight centaur was female I'm pretty sure.

The Centuar's armor and equipment, and the background do evoke an Iobarian feel though.

I assume you're thinking of Mistress of Blades Maidrayne Vox, who is female. However, the one RuyanVe is referring to is probably the one on the cover of Cheliax: Empire of Devils, who is male.

Yeah, you're right, I was getting the two mixed up. My bad!

I like pretty cover art as much as the next person, but it annoys me that there is no product description/synopsis. Are people so darn impatient that you must put up whatever you have on the schedule without even a hint of what the book will be about? Surely in development there was something you could include -- does the story even have a protagonist? Who is it? What does "shy knives" mean? If you have that info, why not put it here or link to it?
The cover is evocative, but it really doesn't give many hints of who the the story will be about, just a possible hint it will involve Iobaria and at least one centaur. Not really enough for me to want to buy the book on that basis.

RuyanVe wrote:

To me it looks that they are fighting each other. Which makes sense if the centaur is the Hellknight shown on the old Cheliax book and she is a halfling connected to the Bellflower Tillers. OTOH, in the background we see yurts--sooooo, maybe something set in Iobaria where centaurs are more numereous? *keeps fingers crossed*

Ruyan.

The Hellknight centaur was female I'm pretty sure.

The Centuar's armor and equipment, and the background do evoke an Iobarian feel though.

Over at macmillan.com I found:

"Shaia “Shy” Ratani is a clever rogue who makes her living outside of strictly legal methods. While hiding out in the frontier city of Yanmass, she accepts a job solving a nobleman’s murder, only to find herself sucked into a plot involving an invading centaur army that could see the whole city burned to the ground. Shy could stop that from happening, but doing so would involve revealing herself to the former friends who now want her dead. Add in an aristocratic partner with the literal blood of angels in her veins, and Shy quickly remembers why she swore off doing good deeds in the first place."

So, Casmaron is definitely in there...

Ruyan.

Found the link to the description: Macmillan description of "Shy Knives".
Is there a reason Paizo didn't put this information on the product info page above?

ANOTHER NOVEL featuring a rogue/scoundrel-class as the main protagonist? Ugh, come on writers of novels for Paizo Publishing. You can do better than this.

ANOTHER NOVEL featuring a rogue/scoundrel-class as the main protagonist? Ugh, come on writers of novels for Paizo Publishing. You can do better than this.

Antiheroes are much more interesting than holier-than-thou LG crusaders, sorry.

Berselius wrote:

ANOTHER NOVEL featuring a rogue/scoundrel-class as the main protagonist? Ugh, come on writers of novels for Paizo Publishing. You can do better than this.

Antiheroes are much more interesting than holier-than-thou LG crusaders, sorry.

That doesn't mean it can't be done (as demonstrated by the upcoming Gears of Faith novel).

Gorbacz wrote:

Antiheroes are much more interesting than holier-than-thou LG crusaders, sorry.

That doesn't mean it can't be done (as demonstrated by the upcoming Gears of Faith novel).

Keren appreciates your faith in her, Berselius. Sadly, she doesn't have much to give you beyond a well-chewed dire apple! (Though I can say that Gears of Faith has a healer as main protagonist, and the LG crusader is not a generic do-gooder. No one who lived strictly by the book would ever be able to make it work with Zae.)

To get back on topic, I've worked with Sam Sykes for about five years, I have copyedited one of his novels and I've stood at a publisher's table selling books with him for many hours. I've shared meals and had drinks with him. And I didn't know until last weekend who his mother was. Writing-wise, he may have grown up with the publishing industry, but he does his own legwork and I think he does it well.

His first series, while wordy, is really a very thoughtful look at what an adventuring party is, and brings a fun, self-aware take to all the roles therein. The healer who says "What's the point of healing you so you can get yourself banged up again tomorrow," the rogue who's sneaky because he really doesn't want to fight, the mage who deals with physical consequences every time he casts a spell... They all analyze their roles in the great game, and deal with some interesting dilemmas about whether they accept those roles or not. It's meta in a way that I, as a life-long fan of quest fantasy, really appreciated.

It's not perfect, but I'd say give it a chance. I see what James Sutter sees in him. I haven't read the book, but I have faith that Sam's take on fantasy will be a fun addition to the Pathfinder universe.

any possible update on product description? since it's supposed to be available in a little over 2 weeks?

any possible update on product description? since it's supposed to be available in a little over 2 weeks?

Just updated! Apologies for the delay!

Yanmass is a city of 6900 people lying at the eastern edge of Taldor and home to the "Taldan Horse", heavyly armored knights on horseback and also battle elephants! I wonder if that features in the novel?

That said, i hope for a sample chapter soon.

Didn't see this thread until just now...

I hired Sam because I read his most recent novel, THE CITY STAINED RED, and thought it was not only hilarious, but perfectly captured the feel of adventure game fantasy. The titular city in that, Cier D'jaal, felt straight out of Pathfinder, and not so different in aesthetic from my own beloved Kaer Maga. So I hired him to write a book, and wow, am I ever glad I did! His protagonist is everything I wanted: a sassy rogue who actually made me laugh out loud at several points, with some really well done, interesting romantic relationships.

Is it the most Golarion-lore-heavy novel we've done? Not by a long shot—I'd say folks like Liane, or Wes, or Chris J. are probably better at digging deep into the setting lore and pulling out interesting tidbits. But in terms of the voice and the character, the tone of dark comedy, it felt like my favorite home campaigns. So I hope folks will give it a shot!

(And for what it's worth, not only did I not know who his mother was when I hired him, I think it's kind of crummy to bring lineage up when discussing an artist. It's why he and folks like Joe Hill use pseudonyms, and more power to them for trying to make a name totally divorced from their parents.)

So, I'm only a tiny way into this and the narrator just seems horrible: smug and callous in equal measure.

Apparently, I'm supposed to warm to her because the guy who she tried to rob is unpleasant. But he's been quite gentle in his punishment of her crime, and being the least worst person is not very charming...

Anyone got any reasons why I should persevere? Or should I just move on to Liar's Bargain?

It is a bit of a Suicide Squad, Bad V Evil story. Shy gets some character development throughout the story. She's neither as smug or as callous as she seems at first.

Well, I got critics remorse and tried to press on.
Next thing that happened, she gave a servant a massive hard time in a really unpleasant, bullying way.

Not seen Suicide Squad: doesn't sound like my cup of tea

Here is the sample chapter:

Sociality and Shackles

Personally i don´t like it, but maybe some of you do. ;-)