I have to say so far apart from the Escape Stunt, the new rogue talents have not impressed me. I'm hoping that the "skill stunt" distinction means they function differently than normal rogue talents somehow.
You can't take a Stunt talent unless you're trained in the stunt's skill. That's about it: they're rogue talents with prerequisites.
Another really cool bit is the new Ranger combat styles in this book. Rangers get a combat style correlating to each of the 20 Core Inner Sea Gods.
Really? What's the fighting style for rangers dedicated to Pharasma?
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I have to say so far apart from the Escape Stunt, the new rogue talents have not impressed me. I'm hoping that the "skill stunt" distinction means they function differently than normal rogue talents somehow.You can't take a Stunt talent unless you're trained in the stunt's skill. That's about it: they're rogue talents with prerequisites.
Thanks for clarifying skill stunts!
So it looks like combat trick is still the most popular rogue talent... That's disappointing :(
Really? What's the fighting style for rangers dedicated to Pharasma?
There is none...only 13 of the 20 got it...and 3 of the minor gods.
I don't have access to the ISC (yet), but I did find these on the PFSRD:
Climbing Stunt
Disabling Stunt
Escaping Stunt
Flying Stunt
Riding Stunt
Sleight of Hand Stunt
Stealth Stunt
Swimming StuntThe PFSRD states that "stunt talents" work slightly differently from normal talents, but it's not quite clear to me what they mean:
Perhaps it is just my pessimism but those talents seems really bad.
THe only one that was mechanically "strong" was scaping stunt, but then why to impose a limit per day restriction?
It is that after 8th level this talent because 99% useless as you can't be flanked except by a rogue 4 levels higher than you.
Good catch, and a really good point.
Good catch, and a really good point.
It is that after 8th level this talent because 99% useless as you can't be flanked except by a rogue 4 levels higher than you.
Unless you happen to be playing an Archetype that gave up Improved Uncanny Dodge...
Ok, it seems that rogue options are bad, what about fighter options? I saw the fighters archetypes in the SRD and they all seems bland at best. Particularly the duelist one will be crushed to the ground by the duelist class.
Really? What's the fighting style for rangers dedicated to Pharasma?There is none...only 13 of the 20 got it...and 3 of the minor gods.
Oops. That's what I get for glancing. Sorry. :(
I like the Oath against Chaos: it's interesting, outside the box, and flavorful. I can imagine that a lot of paladins of Abadar would take it.
The only problem I have is the feature unlocked at 4th level. You lose Channel Energy, but you gain the ability to sacrifice one use of Lay on Hands to Smite Evil? I guess it makes you more versatile, but it seems kind of phoned in and sacrifices useful class features.
I like the Oath against Chaos: it's interesting, outside the box, and flavorful. I can imagine that a lot of paladins of Abadar would take it.
The only problem I have is the feature unlocked at 4th level. You lose Channel Energy, but you gain the ability to sacrifice one use of Lay on Hands to Smite Evil? I guess it makes you more versatile, but it seems kind of phoned in and sacrifices useful class features.
Really? I think being able to trade LoH's for smite evil is waaaaay better than Channel Energy for a paladin.
Really? I think being able to trade LoH's for smite evil is waaaaay better than Channel Energy for a paladin.I like the Oath against Chaos: it's interesting, outside the box, and flavorful. I can imagine that a lot of paladins of Abadar would take it.
The only problem I have is the feature unlocked at 4th level. You lose Channel Energy, but you gain the ability to sacrifice one use of Lay on Hands to Smite Evil? I guess it makes you more versatile, but it seems kind of phoned in and sacrifices useful class features.
Except that Channel Energy just got a lot of new options with Inner Sea Gods. Almost every Deity now has a new Channel Energy dependent feat, which you can't take if you don't Channel Energy...
Except that Channel Energy just got a lot of new options with Inner Sea Gods. Almost every Deity now has a new Channel Energy dependent feat, which you can't take if you don't Channel Energy...Really? I think being able to trade LoH's for smite evil is waaaaay better than Channel Energy for a paladin.I like the Oath against Chaos: it's interesting, outside the box, and flavorful. I can imagine that a lot of paladins of Abadar would take it.
The only problem I have is the feature unlocked at 4th level. You lose Channel Energy, but you gain the ability to sacrifice one use of Lay on Hands to Smite Evil? I guess it makes you more versatile, but it seems kind of phoned in and sacrifices useful class features.
Then I'd have to see if they're any good. As it is, though, I think I've only seen a paladin with access to channel energy use it once. And it was still pretty underwhelming.
Unless you happen to be playing an Archetype that gave up Improved Uncanny Dodge...Good catch, and a really good point.
It is that after 8th level this talent because 99% useless as you can't be flanked except by a rogue 4 levels higher than you.
A good point too..still that talent is bad, way inferior to improved unccany dodge.
OMG....the "learned duelist"....I think it's compatible with the lore warden. It's like they wrote it just for me. :D
OMG....the "learned duelist"....I think it's compatible with the lore warden. It's like they wrote it just for me. :D
The Ustalvian Duelist archetype is not compatible with Lore Warden. Both archetypes modify the fighter's weapon and armor proficiencies.
Really? What's the fighting style for rangers dedicated to Pharasma?There is none...only 13 of the 20 got it...and 3 of the minor gods.
3 Minor Gods? You mean Achaekek might have one?
This will have me skittering around all day. Or... whatever mantises do.
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Really? What's the fighting style for rangers dedicated to Pharasma?There is none...only 13 of the 20 got it...and 3 of the minor gods.3 Minor Gods? You mean Achaekek might have one?
This will have me skittering around all day. Or... whatever mantises do.
Here's the full list:
Major:
Calistria
Cayden Cailean
Desna
Erastil
Gorum
Gozreh
Imedae
Irori
Lamashtu
Norgorber
Sarenrae
Torag
Zon-Kuthon
Other:
Achaekek
Besmara
Kurgess
Achaekek's Combat Style:
Double Slice, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre), Two-Weapon Feint, and Two-Weapon Fighting.
At 6th Level, add Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense.
At 10th Level, add Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend.
OMG....the "learned duelist"....I think it's compatible with the lore warden. It's like they wrote it just for me. :DThe Ustalvian Duelist archetype is not compatible with Lore Warden. Both archetypes modify the fighter's weapon and armor proficiencies.
Why Alexander? Why must you crush my dreams? ;_;
Really? What's the fighting style for rangers dedicated to Pharasma?There is none...only 13 of the 20 got it...and 3 of the minor gods.3 Minor Gods? You mean Achaekek might have one?
This will have me skittering around all day. Or... whatever mantises do.
Here's the full list:
Major:
Calistria
Cayden Cailean
Desna
Erastil
Gorum
Gozreh
Imedae
Irori
Lamashtu
Norgorber
Sarenrae
Torag
Zon-KuthonOther:
Achaekek
Besmara
Kurgess
Ah....I was going to enjoy watching him skittering or whatever manties do...take all of my fun.
Why Alexander? Why must you crush my dreams? ;_;OMG....the "learned duelist"....I think it's compatible with the lore warden. It's like they wrote it just for me. :DThe Ustalvian Duelist archetype is not compatible with Lore Warden. Both archetypes modify the fighter's weapon and armor proficiencies.
Because your tears are exceptionally delicious.
Appreciate it. I've been ritualistically skittering for several hours in celebration. Even though the combat style is nearly identical to Two-Weapon Fighting, it's the thought of the Red Mantis that's enough.
Appreciate it. I've been ritualistically skittering for several hours in celebration. Even though the combat style is nearly identical to Two-Weapon Fighting, it's the thought of the Red Mantis that's enough.
Sometimes all you need is something a little bit exotic to make a good option. ;-)
Plus I don't think that TWF Style normally gets Two Weapon Feint.
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Sad to see nothing for the falcata duelests of Taldor. Oh they got a magic falcata that is questionable due to inner sea gods.
Curious as to how the Purging Falcata is questionable due to ISG. Should just be a falcata that is particularly good at 'putting the pointy end' in religious folks.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Sad to see nothing for the falcata duelests of Taldor. Oh they got a magic falcata that is questionable due to inner sea gods.Curious as to how the Purging Falcata is questionable due to ISG. Should just be a falcata that is particularly good at 'putting the pointy end' in religious folks.
First constructed for use during Taldor’s great purge of the Sarenite Cult of the Dawnflower, this +2 falcataAPG is inscribed with various religious slurs. While purging falcatas are typically attuned against followers of the Dawnflower, variants of this blade have been keyed to all variety of deities.
The church is strongest in Absalom, Katapesh, Osirion, Qadira, Taldor, and Thuvia, in which great gold-adorned open-air temples rise tall and white into the skies, though the church’s emphasis on kindness, healing, joy, and redemption makes it popular across the continents, and
shrines to the Dawnf lower dot countrysides in most nations.
"Hey look, here's a sword specifically designed to attack one of our biggest faiths!"
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there is also the fact that in the starting town of RoW, it is said that while the faith of Sarenae isn't allowed in capitol, the further away from the capitol you go the more acceptable it becomes. so the faith doesn't necessarily exist in the capitol but it does strongly in the countryside. Periodically the government will go thru the countryside looking for worshipers, but they don't usually do that much.
The other main reason to point out is that, the faith is attacked only because the government can't start another war with Qadria, so the king attacks the only thing he can, Qadria's major faith.
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Most likely though, it's probably not referring to the individual sect, which is primarily in Qadira, and is probably referring to all faithful of Sarenrae as a cult, which (up until a recent retcon anyway), has universally been unwelcome in Taldor. Taldor literally burned all temples of Sarenrae, murdered her priests, and made it illegal, punishable by death. I don't have the book, but it seems that there has been a major retcon in ISG that changed the Sarenrae persecution like it never happened.
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The Dagger of Truth is a recent Pathfinder Tales novel that also has Sarenrae's banishment from Taldor as a subplot.
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From what I've read, (which is just hearsay at this point), is that it's been totally retconned out, and basically way back in the day, Taldor burned a few churches, but it's been a long while and is currently viewed as a minor mistake, a tad embarrassing. That happened in 4528, so almost 200 years ago.
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I was so excited for this book because they'd finally give rogues some decent rogue talents for combat. I was disappointed. All the rogue talents are horrible in my opinion. This is coming from a rogue fan boy. Horrible. They shouldn't have even included rogues in this book they did so poorly with the thieves guilds and rogue talents. It was a waste.
Many of the rogue talents will never be usable more than 4 times a day. The acrobatic stunt is useless as previously described, improved uncanny dodge negating it. The climbing stunt is useless since there is a rogue talent both rogues and ninjas can get to obtain a climb speed. Disable Device stunt is hyper situational and simply using a golem bane scarab or adamatine is better. Escaping stunt could be situational useful if your saves and CMD are lower than your escape artist. However, since the first ability of this talent is in place of a reflex save, you can't use it when it might be most useful. Flying stunt is useless to me, though some might like it, because I already add Dexterity to damage and single stat can't stack. Rogue riding... sure, I guess they'll come up in specific games at specific times. Then you might find a way to force this to be a good talent. Slight of hand... so, it's based on a corner stone left to GM discretion and even then you'll have to be adjacent to a ranged character... and they have to threaten for this talent to be useful. It's in place of an attack of opportunity. And the stealth stunt is another forgo an attack of opportunity to make a situational blase call. Finally the swimming stunt. Useful when you and your opponent are swimming. And they breath air. And you can attack them. I hope that no one is using magic to keep breathing underwater. I know I kit out my characters to have the ability to and the GM's I run with often do the same if the creature isn't naturally able to breath underwater.
They really need to come out with some serious combat rogue talents. The fact this was touted and lauded as a combat book, this is shameful. I feel badly giving such negative feedback but I'm really sick of rogues getting screwed and was super excited for this book. Instead I'm very disappointed. A fighter gets a feat every level, a rogue basically gets a talent when a fighter would get a feat, but our talents are often worse than traits in my opinion.
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The purge of Sarenites from Taldor has not been retconned, it's just being downplayed to put it in perspective. Past sources mentioning the purge have led to a prevailing assumption that it was a major and ongoing element in the country, which isn't necessarily the case. Ultimately, Taldor's attempts to "ban" a NG religion based on the sun were futile (like so much else Taldor attempts to do). Yes, the faith was officially forbidden in Taldor 2 centuries ago; in practice, there are tens of thousands of people who venerate Sarenrae there, just as there are all over the world (except Nidal; they hate the sun there because it messes up their pale, gothy, skin.)
Anything in the book for dwarves?
I see no dwarf was mentioned as a noteworthy fighter not even King Taargick(which seems rather odd, honestly), and the only thing I saw mentioned for dwarves is the quat archetype. If things are the way it seems, considering fighter has always been THE class for dwarves I would have expected this book to give them some more love.
CAn somebody explain how "fame" works? Not sue if I am understand it.
Anything in the book for dwarves?
I see no dwarf was mentioned as a noteworthy fighter not even King Taargick(which seems rather odd, honestly), and the only thing I saw mentioned for dwarves is the quat archetype. If things are the way it seems, considering fighter has always been THE class for dwarves I would have expected this book to give them some more love.
Besides the Ouat Dwarf archetye?
Its basically a special monk archetype that serves to modify the monk AND create an alternate dwarven race at the same time. It trades monk abilities and dwarven racial traits. Very cool archetype all around.
CAn somebody explain how "fame" works? Not sue if I am understand it.
Here are the rules for fame.
Anything in the book for dwarves?
I see no dwarf was mentioned as a noteworthy fighter not even King Taargick(which seems rather odd, honestly), and the only thing I saw mentioned for dwarves is the quat archetype. If things are the way it seems, considering fighter has always been THE class for dwarves I would have expected this book to give them some more love.
Besides the Ouat Dwarf archetye?
Its basically a special monk archetype that serves to modify the monk AND create an alternate dwarven race at the same time. It trades monk abilities and dwarven racial traits. Very cool archetype all around.
Great if you want to play a monk dwarf (but then I like drunken masters a lot thematically) but nothing for fighters?
Aside from that not even a little nod to any well renowned Dwarven fighter?
Anything in the book for dwarves?
I see no dwarf was mentioned as a noteworthy fighter not even King Taargick(which seems rather odd, honestly), and the only thing I saw mentioned for dwarves is the quat archetype. If things are the way it seems, considering fighter has always been THE class for dwarves I would have expected this book to give them some more love.
Besides the Ouat Dwarf archetye?
Its basically a special monk archetype that serves to modify the monk AND create an alternate dwarven race at the same time. It trades monk abilities and dwarven racial traits. Very cool archetype all around.
Great if you want to play a monk dwarf (but then I like drunken masters a lot thematically) but nothing for fighters?
Aside from that not even a little nod to any well renowned Dwarven fighter?
Honestly, aside from the Ulfen Prestige Class there is no other racial material in this book. Golarion is a humanocentric world and dwarves are portrayed as traditionalists who don't want to bother mingling with those confounded whippersnapper races. There probably are a lot more notable dwarven fighters then are described here as a result.
To give you a picture of the who's who of Golarion, there are 40 martial characters described. All of them are human except for: one centaur, one dwarf, one half-orc, one halfling, one orc, and one tiefling.
So no, you don't see much racial stuff in this book. Unless you count a sprinkling of information on the various fighting styles of humanocentric nations as racial stuff. But almost nothing in this book has actual racial requirements save for one prestige class and one archetype.
ALL D&D worlds are mostly humancenteric. That doesn't mean other races shouldn't get a decent amount of stuff for themselves too imo. And if all the developers want to do is fleshing out human nations and human NPCs lots of the classical D&D feel will be lost.
If you do a book about D&D fighters at least throw a bone to Half Orcs and Dwarves, that's all I'm saying.
And as far as I know Golarion dwarves are not that stereotypically isolationist (for example the 5 kings mountains enjoy a great trading relationship with Druma).
Anyway thanks for the information, I will consider carefully if I want to spend money on this then.
ALL D&D worlds are mostly humancenteric. That doesn't mean other races shouldn't get a decent amount of stuff for themselves too imo. And if all the developers want to do is fleshing out human nations and human NPCs lots of the classical D&D feel will be lost.
If you do a book about D&D fighters at least throw a bone to Half Orcs and Dwarves, that's all I'm saying.
The book is just too small, besides dwarf and Half-orcs already have a fighter racial archetype. I woud have prefered a halfling slinger, an elv specialzied in the elven curved blade or a gnone Whatever.
Small as it might be, I don't think giving space to a couple of non human fighters as legendary heroes would have been all that problematic.
If you are talking about the fluff then Boromgrim the hale is a darwf fighter. Ullorth Ugrim is a half-orc fighter.