*droool*
Hollow montain! Yes!
And maybe, some day, we will learn something more about the mysterious city Crystilan on an island northwest of Varisia.
Sold!
Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?
Maybe Gallowspire has many levels that the AP won't venture into..It could be the Golarion Analog to Castle Greyhawk
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Ooh... I literally *begged* certain WoTC FR authors for 'Dungeons of Faerun' (a book containing some bigger dungeons and also smaller "delves") but they thought there would be no market for such a product. And now you guys are releasing more or less what I asked... for my new favorite setting?!? :) SOLD! (and I'm certain that more than a few 3E and 4E DMs will also be interested in this kind of book)
Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?Maybe Gallowspire has many levels that the AP won't venture into..It could be the Golarion Analog to Castle Greyhawk
A both disturbing and awesome though. I think thats being mainly reserved for the Spire of Nex outside Absalom though...or maybe thats somewhat analogue to Maure Castle...I can't recall which.
Ooh... I literally *begged* certain WoTC FR authors for 'Dungeons of Faerun' (a book containing some bigger dungeons and also smaller "delves") but they thought there would be no market for such a product. And now you guys are releasing more or less what I asked... for my new favorite setting?!? :) SOLD! (and I'm certain that more than a few 3E and 4E DMs will also be interested in this kind of book)
Same here! Ah well...Paizo, thanks for listening!
Creative Director
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Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?
Very well, in fact. Because Gallowspire's interior and the dungeons below are one of the DEADLIEST regions in Golarion, it's not going to be featured as adventuring sites in the AP. The last adventure in Carrion Crown...
The information about Gallowspire in Dungeons of Golarion will work VERY well to help a GM build a sort of "sequel" to the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, basically.
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Creative Director
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Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?Maybe Gallowspire has many levels that the AP won't venture into..It could be the Golarion Analog to Castle Greyhawk
ALL of these dungeons would fit into the category of Castle Greyhawk/Maure Castle style "megadungeons."
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Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?Very well, in fact. Because Gallowspire's interior and the dungeons below are one of the DEADLIEST regions in Golarion, it's not going to be featured as adventuring sites in the AP. The last adventure in Carrion Crown...** spoiler omitted **
The information about Gallowspire in Dungeons of Golarion will work VERY well to help a GM build a sort of "sequel" to the Carrion Crown Adventure Path, basically.
Now, that's an interesting approach.
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ALL of these dungeons would fit into the category of Castle Greyhawk/Maure Castle style "megadungeons."Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?Maybe Gallowspire has many levels that the AP won't venture into..It could be the Golarion Analog to Castle Greyhawk
So at what point will these Mega-Dungeons see print? Or are they there for all those other maga-dungeons I already have to be easily adaptable to Golarion?
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Ooh... I literally *begged* certain WoTC FR authors for 'Dungeons of Faerun' (a book containing some bigger dungeons and also smaller "delves") but they thought there would be no market for such a product. And now you guys are releasing more or less what I asked... for my new favorite setting?!? :) SOLD! (and I'm certain that more than a few 3E and 4E DMs will also be interested in this kind of book)Same here! Ah well...Paizo, thanks for listening!
You know, the same happened when I suggested a book called 'Cities of Faerun' (a book featuring 5-10 major cities with maps and maybe 10-20 pages of information on each one) -- one of the FR staffers said that "this sort of book is not in the works and it's unlikely that we will publish anything like it" (or something to that effect). And then Paizo releases 'Cities of Golarion' *and* the map folio to boot! :)
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So at what point will these Mega-Dungeons see print? Or are they there for all those other maga-dungeons I already have to be easily adaptable to Golarion?ALL of these dungeons would fit into the category of Castle Greyhawk/Maure Castle style "megadungeons."Aren't we already getting Gallowspire in Carrion Crown. How will these two compliment each other?Maybe Gallowspire has many levels that the AP won't venture into..It could be the Golarion Analog to Castle Greyhawk
There was some discussion about a mega dungeon AP, and the staff attitude was generally 'that sounds like an interesting challenge, but we're not planning anything at the mo.'
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Creative Director
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This might be the most useful campaign specific book if it has lots of advice on building and re imagining the dungeon setting.
Suffice to say: "Sold!"
It wont. It's going to be more like a gazetteer type book that explores six dungeons, presenting them in a similar manner that we presented the cities in "Cities of Golarion."
A book that provides advice on dungeon building could be cool (we just did a fair amount of this in the GameMastery Guide, actually), but this book is going to be mostly flavor with some inspiration to GMs who want to run adventures set in one of Golarion's big dungeons.
You know, the same happened when I suggested a book called 'Cities of Faerun' (a book featuring 5-10 major cities with maps and maybe 10-20 pages of information on each one) -- one of the FR staffers said that "this sort of book is not in the works and it's unlikely that we will publish anything like it" (or something to that effect). And then Paizo releases 'Cities of Golarion' *and* the map folio to boot! :)Ooh... I literally *begged* certain WoTC FR authors for 'Dungeons of Faerun' (a book containing some bigger dungeons and also smaller "delves") but they thought there would be no market for such a product. And now you guys are releasing more or less what I asked... for my new favorite setting?!? :) SOLD! (and I'm certain that more than a few 3E and 4E DMs will also be interested in this kind of book)Same here! Ah well...Paizo, thanks for listening!
That's because Teter, being an artificial intelligence, was able to download a copy of himself into your brain and has been slowly draining it of cool ideas for Paizo products. Once he's got all your knowledge, he'll evict your consciousness, wear your body like a meat suit, and convert all your worldy possessions into cash that he can use to fund his intense gambling habit.
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I just wish it was one huge mega-adventure per book and give us several of them over time.
TBH, the dungeon you would get into a 64 page book wouldn't be particularly mega.
Also, it's not really the purpose of the Campaign Setting Books. It's more suited to modules (although size would really bite there), or spread over an AP.
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I just wish it was one huge mega-adventure per book and give us several of them over time.
Although I loved Undermountain, I'd rather want this kind of products detailing a handful of medium-sized "delves" (that can be ran in 1-3 sessions) than a single "megadungeon". A map, some room descriptions, history and hooks would be all I need per dungeon; I can always expand on it, if I want to.
Besides, I don't think 64 pages will be enough for a "real" mega-adventure.
detailing a handful of medium-sized "delves" (that can be ran in 1-3 sessions)
That's "medium"?
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detailing a handful of medium-sized "delves" (that can be ran in 1-3 sessions)That's "medium"?
Well, if you go by small-medium-large-super classification -- with something like Irongard or typical side trek delves being "small" and Undermountain or Rappan Athuk being "superdungeons" -- I think it is; my players tend to get bored if they have to spend 5 or more sessions in a row to find a MacGuffin in a dungeons so we prefer smaller dungeons (note: delving into a superdungeon such as Undermountain is another matter, especially if the main motivation is to explore the place and the players can leave any time).
Also, usually the PCs in my group spend a lot of time interacting with NPCs and pursuing their individual goals, so adventuring usually amounts to just 40-50% of gameplay. Often that means that an adventure meant to be run in, say, 3 sessions might take 5-6 sessions for them to complete.
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To manage expectations a little...
This product will NOT provide fully detailed dungeon levels anymore than any of the cities in "Cities of Golarion" provided fully detailed buildings.
"Dungeons of Golarion" will give overviews of six ENORMOUS dungeons; it'll have some cool maps of the dungeons and give a lot of pointers on how adventuring in these dungeons is different than adventuring anywhere else, but it won't have a room-by-room encounter presentation at all.
So, any GM can basically use these dungeons for ANY length of delve... short, long, or anything in between.
Yes, the only way to do a Mega-Dungeon justice would be to give it his own 6-part Adventure Part... ;-)
You've given us 4 of the locations: Varisia, Ustalav, Underdark, Absalom, so where are the other 2 dungeons located?
Here is a post of James' from another thread about the fifth location:
There IS an Osirion location in this book, but that location is the lost city of Tumen, so things should be fine.
So that just leaves getting the location of the sixth one.
Well It cant be Mwangi surely because we are about to get that one in Serpents Skull.
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You've given us 4 of the locations: Varisia, Ustalav, Underdark, Absalom, so where are the other 2 dungeons located?Here is a post of James' from another thread about the fifth location:
There IS an Osirion location in this book, but that location is the lost city of Tumen, so things should be fine.So that just leaves getting the location of the sixth one.
Mordant Spire might be interesting.
What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?
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What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?
There's a lot of reasons why the Mega-Dungeon seems like such a fascinating concept to many. I'll list a few below:
1) It harkens back to the old days of D&D where characters would start at the entrance to a massive dungeon complex populated, depopulated and repopulated by random monsters carrying even randomer treasure.
2) Mad Wizards. Seriously, those guys have bajillions of GP, insane artifacts and a storage problem. The solution? Insanely large dungeon guarded by fiendish traps, deadly monsters and the odd logic puzzle or two. Why does the dungeon have a latrine smack between the Bottomless Pit With The Invisible Bridge of Despair and the Snarling Orumvorax's Lair From Whence There Is No Visiting For Less Than Thirty Two Minutes? Because he's MAD! You adventurers and your logic...
3) Ancient temples, sometimes get connected up to deep caverns which in turn get connected up to Dwarven mining projects which in turn get connected to the Prison Cyst beneath the Earth what holds he who shall not be named which in turn connects to the city sewers which has an entrance in the local inn's basement (rats keep coming in through that way). As Gandalf says: "They delve too greedy, too deep" when that happens you need adventurers.
4) Because there's something absolutely fun about having dangerous levels of curiosity, greed, a ten-foot pole, a medium length of rope and a sword and a yawning dungeon mouth that says: "Treasure Inside".
There's a lot of reasons why the Mega-Dungeon seems like such a fascinating concept to many. I'll list a few below:
[omited]
Amen.
What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?There's a lot of reasons why the Mega-Dungeon seems like such a fascinating concept to many. I'll list a few below:
Weird, I've been playing (A)D&D for 30 years now and I've never player it like you describe in no. 1, we've always had a story. the other numbers don't make much sense to me or don't sound like fun play to me. Just never been my kind of game, and it doesn't really sound like role-playing, you might as well be playing "Dungeon!".
Well to each his own, I guess.
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There's plenty of role-play to be had within a Megadungeon.
PCs interacting with PCs, (Left towards the sound of tortured screaming, or right towards the source of heat).
PCs interacting with the environment - "There's a 60 ft chasm, we have 50 feet of rope... Any ideas?"
PCs interacting with dungeon denizens - The pathetic kobolds on level one need not be genocided if you can defeat the young dragon they've been enslaved by. The vicious Drow need not be murdered on sight if you can disguise yourselves as one of them. Or releasing the prisoner from The Torture Chamber of Thirteen And A Half Pains: Do you escort him to the entrance or give him a spare sword and shield, pat him on the back and wish him luck?
I've run Random Dungeons before, and in fact sandbox play is just a random dungeon with less pretend walls in the way.
The Adventure Path concept kicked off with a fairly brilliant mega dungeon in the form of Jzadirune in Shackled City. Explore a forgotten Gnome Enclave, to rescue children from underdark slavers. Sounds like everything you need for fun, roleplaying and door-kicking, puzzle-solving, monster slaying action.
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Actually being in a real World Mega Dungeon *Catacombs in Rome.* I can tell you there are many real world things you can use as an inspiration for Campaigns involving them.
After going through that Catacomb I seen where the inspiration for them came from.
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Here is a post of James' from another thread about the fifth location:
There IS an Osirion location in this book, but that location is the lost city of Tumen, so things should be fine.So that just leaves getting the location of the sixth one.
Ooh. Not very far from Sothis! Thanks Enevhar! I'm hoping for the last dungeon to be to the east or south - Qadira or Nex perhaps - since the West and North are well represented. I think a mega-dungeon might be Nex's sort of thing.
addendum: Then again, Qadira has 2 known "lost city/dungeon" locations: Al-Bashir and Shadun.
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+1 (though I know Paizo really isn't doing hardcover except for the Campaign Setting and RPG lines)Yes, the only way to do a Mega-Dungeon justice would be to give it his own 6-part Adventure Part... ;-)Or a hardcover.
Not this year, at least. Doesn't mean we'll NEVER do a hardcover adventure.
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Not this year, at least. Doesn't mean we'll NEVER do a hardcover adventure.+1 (though I know Paizo really isn't doing hardcover except for the Campaign Setting and RPG lines)Yes, the only way to do a Mega-Dungeon justice would be to give it his own 6-part Adventure Part... ;-)Or a hardcover.
I still would love to see Rise of the Runelords in hardcover and update to PFRPG
I'd get this book just for the info on Gallowspire. I've been fascinated with Tar-Baphon and his flunkies ever since reading about the 'seals' holding him down in the last Falcon Hollow adventure.
What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?
Angband.
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What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?Angband.
Or to be a bit more detailed, the mega-dungeon idea is one of happenstance more than design.
Typically, there's one or two forces at work, initially: mining or magic (or both). You might have the reclusive wizard who uses magic to excavate a subterranean lair or the dwarven miners to delve too deep. In either case, there are large structures which were created for other purposes ranging from the size of a building to a city. Then you typically have the "bad stuff." Maybe there was a network of drow tunnels that the wizard opened a passage into by accident or maybe the radioactive fallout from the gnomish tinkering brought the troggs up to the surface and gave them new abilities. In any case, you have the Things From the Depths (or planar what-not, etc) making an incursion into the surface or near-surface dweller's domain.
This gives you a range of environs to explore and can go on, effectively, forever.
Of course, that's just the standard mega-dungeon that's been done to death. There are lots of other possibilities. Ruins make a fun dungeon (and Golarion has some great ones, ranging from Thassilonian strongholds to a crashed alien spaceship.
The planes also let you play with assumptions. perhaps, on the Ethereal plane, a large city like Absalom is a sort of mega-dungeon. And last but never least, there's The Abyss, which is the ultimate mega-dungeon.
What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?Angband.
Just noticed this now. lol
Anyway, that is one good example from Tolkien's writings, but I think it is more Moria that stirs the fascination with mega-dungeons, since it gets explored in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
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What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?
I think it's largely just a relic from the very beginning of the game, when all adventures were had in the 50-something levels under Castle Greyhawk.
What is the fascination with these so called "mega-dungeons"? To me that sounds like something totally unrealistic and contrived. Why would they even exist?Angband.Just noticed this now. lol
Anyway, that is one good example from Tolkien's writings, but I think it is more Moria that stirs the fascination with mega-dungeons, since it gets explored in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Except its not "explored" - its a means from point A to point B. You are, however, correct in stating that its likely the inspiration for most mega-dungeons.
I have never been a big mega-dungeon fan, but do find the idea fascinating in a way. I would purchase this book, based on positive reviews, I just don't know how much use I would get out of it as stealing bits and pieces of it. OTOH a low commitment, low prep Diablo-esque campaign might be fun.