thedarkelf007's page

I just read Rite Publishings response (and included spells) and I agree that the spells could be abused, but I could abuse spells in the core books more.

I'd also add the Wish and Miracle are better constrained in Pathfinder than in 3.5 and I am grateful for the text that a wish may pervert your intent if taken outside those constraints and a miracle may be refused if not inline with your deities beliefs.

So using wish or miracle is not part of the constrained part of the true love spell and risks the results after expending the costly components...

I could live with that as a GM as a potential way to undo the true love aspect.

Thanks for the extra info on the spells, it's nice to know the inspiration for them, and had convinced me to look at picking it up, and for Hero Lab as well :)

In my games I have the following:
- all forms of coming back to life does exist
- very few people want to come back (mainly hero's)
- marriage, titles, inheritance and positions of power are death till us part (as none of these can affect a soul in the afterlife)
- oaths of service to a higher power is usually beyond death till us part such as clerics, paladins, deity worshiped and such (as these do affect ones stay in the afterlife)

With the repercussions of coming back from the dead, and clerics (or anyone able to ask higher powers questions) can tell when someone has been brought back or when they have died.

This adds amusement to games where they have created a will for their character to make sure the holdings are "kept in the family".

But on the serious side, it fits in with a setting where raising the dead is possible, but not common.

Even breath of life triggers the "I have died" clause of these rules, and in my game generates a new ID for the hero in question so I can keep track of how many lives a player has gone through in a campaign (new characters are treated the same as characters who have died for the purpose of id tracking).

This also stops the "it's just death" approach I have faced with players and temporarily loosing their character.

In some games, I have also imposed a geas/quest on any character that is not of the same alignment as the god which is bringing them back to life where they have to further the cause of that god in the next 12 months (a specific quest)

This also helps people decide that it might be better to stay dead, or inspire them to be more heroic (and careful) in this next life.

On the plus side, very few of my players want to risk death for their characters now that they have holdings to loose....

I'd rather D&D stay separate to pathfinder.

They have each gone in different directions and while it would be nice to see some of the licensed 3.5 monsters appear in pathfinder, I like the pathfinder game as it is. Golarion feels more solid than most of the D&D settings I have run.

D&D Next will bring some people back, gain a new following and continue the brand. They have a history of worlds to pick from, each with comics, video games, novels.

I'm sure they will looking into another cartoon like the clone wars which then gives them another brand of toys on a license they own.

Just imagine if they went and turned each of their settings into cartoons. I did like the Dragonlance one, and while I wished for more of the story, I did enjoy it.

Depending on your campaign you might also have rarity for spells being harder to get from supplements.

I have also had divine casters need to obtain prayer books for spells outside the core book as well, this adds some extra book keeping for the divine casters, but adds interesting flavour when they chase down that elusive prayer book for the spells they were after.

That and the prayer book might not be for their god. :)

This is a rpg choice, and I count any money spent on the prayer books as part of their tithing to the church.

And old Angband or moria if you know the single player version of the ascii dungeon crawl had books for each of the classes to learn their spells from.

I have a no reward or xp for missing players. Makes players show up more often if they risk missing out on things, and start to fall behind the other characters.

Though I also have a bonus for characters who are below the average party level, so they can catch up.

Also have the late player wait till their is a logical break in the game for their character to show up, as missing player usually means character not there as well.

I've stated this up from for my games, also noting that if they can convince another player to play their character they will be included in the rewards, but they need to arrange that before the game starts.

And they know I generally start at a set time every game so its no great surprise to see the game already started if they are late.

Do your players pull this kind of crap on you? Or do I just have a unique blend of emotional sadists in my group?

** spoiler omitted **...

Hey RD, that sucks when players try to manipulate you like that, and I'm sure your not the only one.

I've had quite a few over the years. As I have moved states away from those who I grew up with it makes taking such [insert foul language] hard to tolerate.

I've let it slide a few times, but generally only once per person.

Here is a tactic I recommend for the next time that he does it.

Pretend its serious, have a "intervention", even schedule in new "replacement" characters for the next session.

About once a month I get a new player from the community into one of the games I run, sometimes they stay, and if they are any good they get into more of my games.

But as I recruit players for the six games that I am involved in (four I run) so its easier for me to replace players. I also admin the local games forum and have a pool of eager to jump in players.

So what I actually did to one player who pulled something similar to me (a second time) was send out a game cancelled email to everyone explaining the conversation and dropping the player responsible in the deep end, then announce that I was willing to continue the game for all those interested in playing on no matter the issues, and would be auditioning for a replacement player for those who were leaving (stating said player had confirmed he was leaving) and did they know anyone else they would like to play with.

Strangely enough that player never tried that crap on me again out of game, and in game it was up to the other players to deal with him.

There have been other manipulators, but those that try it in game end up giving the other players (and my wife) something to laugh about as they crash and burn on their own devices...

Replacing disruptive players is hard when its a friend, but its a game, and if you can't enjoy the game then eventually you'll stop playing.

The GM must have fun too, though not at the expense of the players, while the players have a right to have fun, though not at expense of the GM. When you strike a good balance, the game is a joy and seems to run itself.

Sometimes the threat of replacement is enough.

As a GM I allow the recharging of wands, it just costs the per charge cost of making the wand in the first place.

What I also allow is to have multiple spells loaded into the same wand with an 1.5 increase in cost for all spells past the primary.

This makes loosing one far worse, but less to have to carry, and with command words worked out, quite a nasty surprise for people to have to deal with...

When doing it I have the charges for spells separate, though you could combine them like a staff, but not sure how I would cost it.

And does it say anywhere that a wand must be a stick, a dagger might fit into the specs of a wand as a metal wand is a possibility in the description ;)

Though that's all up to how flexible a GM you have.

In one of my current campaigns I have given the players extra hit points equal to their constitution score. This makes them less squishy and more heroic.

No extra rules needed, play as it comes and so far only two player deaths on the 5th session (one was killed by the party on purpose) and they are 10 sessions in and some on 4th level and going strong.

This is running through the Rappan Athuk adventure book.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

I've experienced this including players stating "lets just jump of the cliff here and die so we can respawn in town". it was around this time I re-evaluated the threat of death to player characters.

1.) I call b$!%+##*.

2.) How are they going to "respawn" if there's nobody around to resurrect them after taking their bodies back to the town?

3.) There's nothing that says you have to allow Raise Dead be an option for morons.

1 - I did that.

2 - They were going to "create" new characters with the same stats as their plan. When I pointed out it would be a TPK and no more campaign, they laughed. The threat of death was so removed with new characters at the same level they were not invested in the characters, or the story.

3 - They considered death and creating a new character a form of raise dead when they started at the same level.

As you might imagine I was not amused with this plan and ended up closing that gaming group not long after as it was not fun to run with such attitudes.

I have had those players in other games since, and they have understood the death has a meaning in my new campaigns is because of their antics and go out of their way "not" to die in these games.

While reading through part of this thread I thought I would answer it from the perspective of a couple of games I have run.

New characters coming back at the same level of the party can make death more of a rule reason for more loot, especially when the *new* character is just the old character with a different name.

I've experienced this including players stating "lets just jump of the cliff here and die so we can respawn in town". it was around this time I re-evaluated the threat of death to player characters.

My last Rise of the Runelords game had many character deaths and by the end of it only one character was a starting character... So that also had an issue on why they were doing the adventure. It ended with a total party kill against the runelord. Was considered a good campaign by the players as it proved that the hero's were not going to win every time.

I run two campaigns now:

Curse of the Crimson Throne - all player characters are related in one way or the other, if they die, there will have to be a funeral.

Rappan Athuk, all characters are enhanced, have extra hit points equal to their constitution, and 32 point buy characters.

In both of these campaigns I have set the following rules:
- All new characters start at 1st level, its up to the players to keep new characters alive long enough to be effective in the game
- Resurrection is at the discretion of the clerics patron, and will require a service for any *non faithful* and will only raise those within one step of their alignment
- Any death is death. Marriage, service, Will, or anything that is specified for the life of the character becomes void when they die. This sets events into action where magic is used to inform of deaths.
- Any forms of returning from death adds the returnee to the god of deaths list to be recovered at the earliest opportunity
- abandoning a quest from resurrection results in the god sending its own agents to claim to lost soul and regain its spent power in the form of killing the raised character
- The afterlife of a character is given up when resurrected

These are all roleplaying issues, that the players have agreed to as a good way to make death have meaning in the game.

Now players don't want to die or be resurrected more than once. While they grumble about starting at 1st level with new characters, they like how the roleplaying has gone around it, and how higher level characters have to look after the new characters to the group.

I would not be too fussed, upset yes, but more at myself.

What level are the PC's, if they don't have access to resurrection (either through party power, or wealth) then it is a little unfair.

Otherwise it is par the course.

Though remember that a lot of things like land, marriage and inheritance are based on till death so dying can raise some interesting questions.

I have a standing rule that any character who can't afford to be resurrected or does not have the spell power at hand can be brought back from the dead by the gods.

Now this is usually at a greater cost than if done by normal means, and usually involves person quests for the god in question, relating to the reason they died, and what that god's portfolio was.

As an example: a player in one of my games (his first tabletop) found his character married off in the first session with the wife being killed overnight by the local bad guy. This was a plot point to engage the party as they were invested in the wedding as we roleplayed it happening.

Then chasing the bad guy to his lair, the players character was death touched and died as a result. All in the first session.

So the gods intervened and brought him back with the task of resurrecting his wife. Unfortunately her soul had been stolen by a fiend and became the focus of the character from then onwards.

64 sessions later (4 years real time playing 3.5), at level 36 he managed to wrestle her spirit from Orcus himself and the campaign ended on a high note.

So while death sucks, its how the players and GM's handle it in game that matter.

And adding quests for resurrection can be fun :)

Also having players create a will for their characters before starting a campaign and pulling it out when they die, and having NPC's trying to enforce their wishes adds alot of RP opportunities.

I bought the Slumbing Tsar and Rappan Athuk from the kickstarter project. My players were warned up front that it is a deadly dungeon crawl where any encounter could kill them.

They received their Con as bonus XP and had a 32 attribute build.

And going old school of only XP if the character is in the encounter.

But they are loving it, we RP most sessions with maybe one encounter over 4 hrs, sometimes two. Last session their encounter was under a bridge, huddled in the dark being splashed at from the river by migrating trout that scared them half to death...

Now they have not even scratched the surface of the campaign, three sessions in, and have spend more than half their time in town.

Like any adventure, it has stats, encounters, and puzzles, but most importantly it does not have a timeline, or a railroad.

They can go where they want, when they want.

I'm doing the same with Curse of the Crimson Throne to an extent, making the AP encounters just one of many happening as part of an integrated background for the players, so they have an investment in the setting and reason to fight for it.

So for these two campaigns, no more books are needed, I have everything I need. I will buy more, but that's for personal reasons (gotta collect them all..)

I also run Star Wars d6. Now that is an old system, no longer supported, but still fun. There are plenty of games out there that are fantastic and could suit your group, game style and quality.

The guys here put out a great product, but if its not what your looking for, don't buy it, if it is, enjoy the fact that they can still make it, and their prices are within reason.

In Australia I pay Import tax and stupid Aussie tax on computer games and software, often double the US prices. Now these might not be real taxes, but they feel that way, so I find other means to get things I want including overseas purchase.

If a gaming group invested $50 per player, bought a couple of players guides and one adventure path, and the bestiaries it uses, then they would not need any more books for six to twelve months (mine took 2 years). And for that timeframe its not a large investment for a hobby when a weekly laser tag can cost $25 or what ever the WoW subscription is these days.

So from a pricing perspective, Pathfinder is one of the cheapest entry level games out there (its even got a beginner box) and at least its still supported and evolving.

I would expect all the gods to be for marriage is a small manner, just because they want more followers...

The easiest followers to get are those brought up by parents of the religion.

Otherwise the preachers converting believers of another faith are the only way to gain new followers.

Any religion against marriage, risks the followers converting to another faith that allows marriage and weakening its previous faith as followers walk out on it.

This could also lead to religions pushing celibacy before marriage so that the faithful are only producing more faithful. Not that many of the followers would pay attention to that one...

Having NPC's or PC's fall pregnant and the child bring raised by an NPC of a different religion has caused some interesting RP opportunities.

My ONLY issue with HeroLab is that you have to pay money for each supplement and it starts to add up after a while. After already paying money for the book/pdf then again to use Herolab just is not cost effective for me. I understand why they do from a business point of view and they do make a wonderful product if you are willing to pay for each supplement.

yes supplements cost, but you get about 3-5 books per $10 usually, and they do do bundles. I think all up it is about $150 so far (I could be wrong) for all the pathfinder books released to date.

Depending on what your are running, you won't need most of them, only get what you want to use in your campaign and it will keep the costs down.

I use all the books so have all the supplements. Some friends use only the core rules so have it and pick up the bestiary...

If your going to do other systems they also cater for it is $20 extra per base rules set to include.

And it is fairly easy to extend with customization as you need.

I would use Hero Lab found here www.wolflair.com as they have pathfinder as one of many game sets they support with regular updates.

The only down side is the price, but that is not really an obstacle as it is $30 US to get the first game system.

The main cost comes from using all the supplements.

I have Pathfinder (all supplements) and Shadowrun (all supplements) and have written my own Star Wars d6 version.

I use this in five games over a fortnight, while it has some bugs, overall it is up to date with the errata, covers the new set of books around the time they make it to my local store and have a great support network.

You want house rules, easy to add in, you don't know how to do something, ask, someone answers...

And it can export to d20Pro or Fantasy Grounds so works well with that

I've used excel spreadsheets in the past, not fantastic, but not as good as round by round tracking including monsters, and keeping players honest about what they are carrying or options they have taken...

Weight penalties are auto-calculated or turned off as you desire... so many options available I would not want to go back to just pencil and paper...

I also have it running during the session which makes things easier to cope with. If you want more info just send me a PM and I'd be happy to chat about it offline.

I'm also beta testing their Realm Works and I think it combined with Hero Lab and d20Pro is a fantastic electronic setup for a game...

I'm against the gunslinger with the ranged touch attack and high damage every round. Might have just been the build used in my game, but I won't be seeing one of those any time soon again.

Try the new claases, its worth the test, worst case you can pull a character that is not fun to play and swap it with a new one as a testing phase...

As for the extra spell options, awesome, can make different concepts and styles without having to create and balance your own custom spells...

The more choices the better I feel.

As for words of power, only good if you have an imagination, not all players do, so you can custom up more spells than you would have in your spellbook as a wizard (or other prepared casters) and lots of flexibility as a spontaneous caster, just could use some work and expansion as it is only a core set of mechanics.

I will be trialing it in a dungeon crawl campaign to see how well it works from the spontaneous perspective.

As a GM I would laugh and say sure... you summon your Eidolon, btw did you remember to take a level in the class to get a Eidolon to summon?

No..

Well you spent the time drawing upon the mystic energies and pulling your Eidolon through the fabric of reality...

(to player please describe the Eidolon)

This creature appears out of the mystic portal and fades before materailising with a mocking laughter coming from the portal before it closes...

(to other players, please provide mocking laughter)

Now who's next?

If they cast the spell may as well give them something, and let the other players enjoy the experience. :)

Might even encourage them to take the class next level?

I have used the savage species rules and they work.

I've even adapted it to pathfinder, based on the bestiary.

The core design was based on a dragon magazine article, I think from issue 300 but can't remember exactly.

Every level the character gains something, but might not be hit dice. It is a very powerful character to play, but it sacrifices class for race.

Class can be taken at any time (this also slows down the age category progression) and can keep the dragon at the same size as the party.

Hey for my current games I have specified that the characters must be created in Hero Lab, and if they players don't have a copy they are welcome to use mine.

its cut a lot of "rule creep" out of the characters as its all specified in front of me, I can look their characters up between sessions, or bring up stuff mid game.

Your the GM, request a copy of the character, and if one is not made available, find another player. that sounds harsh, but then I have a glut of players right now and have no trouble with 3-4 players waiting to join my games.

So what I would recommend as a middle ground, say to him, what would he do if you pulled that stunt on him. How would he rule it.

If he is reasonable, simply tell him what you want him to do to keep that character in the game. If he is unreasonable tell him that he risks being booted from your game for cheating and I would state this in front of the other players as they might not know he has been cheating.

Put in those terms I've brought other players in line, especially other GM's as they don't want to be known for cheating.

You have tried to be reasonable, now simply let the group decide if he should be allowed to cheat while they are playing by the rules.

Either he will play within the rules, or he will leave... or you could let him continue to cheat.

I've thrown cheat in there a few times because in reality that is what he is doing, and on some level he knows this due to not being upfront about it.

Looking at this an not having run (or read) the kingmaker AP as yet I do have a piece of advice for what I do in my games.

Let the players have their fun. If they kill an important NPC, plow through a book in a night, bypass a huge chunk of story, let them.

Over time the lack of XP for their actions will balance out by the end of the storyline.

I'm running Rise of the Runelords, have them advancing faster than expected, then they walked through book 5 without touching much of it and have heading into book 6 at just the right level.

If they kill an important NPC in the community, and did not provide proof of the crimes of that person, they become outlaws, and start having to fight off the "good" characters of the world who want to bring them in for justice.

Just change the flavour of the adventure to suit their actions. Be it heroes of the land to villians who are feared and shunned.

I also let a little power creep in with items, I awarded double starting treasure at every level as total GP Item worth. This was done to speed up play and stop the need to write down everything they take from every monster in the game. As they no longer needed gear from monsters they stopped exploring as much and started avoiding encounters, and story. I had to revise that to items found while adventuring and only items they could have bought from the local cities, or have built themselves. Now they engage in the story more.

As I like to play wizards and other squishy characters, I like the idea of splitting the costs and it is an encounter expense.

Maybe you should state the agreement before starting the session. This can go from shared loot to shared expenses. Otherwise it starts to become everyone for themselves...

As a spellcaster I would frown upon expendable resources if they all came out of my characters pocket.

I would be less likely to play with those players again no matter how fun they were at the start, they did not end that way being quite selfish.

From your post they came close to ruining your enjoyment of the game and if they pulled that in one of the campaigns I run, they would be lucky to find themselves in another game.

As a GM I encourage players to discuss (before play) what they expect reward division to be, including most of the basics, death, personal treasure (found by or given to a single character), expendables, prestige and accountability.

If you can't agree and abide by that agreement then why would you adventure together, trust each other, or even help each other. With different factions it would be quite easy to just kill other characters, steal their stuff, or cripple them in some way.

I'd see that act the same as stealing from the character, not really following the duty of cooperation that is expected because they are not respecting the other characters claim's and risk reporting to the pathfinder society for expulsion due to greed.

I'd leave it up to the player to decide, but if it was their choice to make a case, and if I was the one receiving it there is a good chance I would side with them and state the characters are probably more evil than neutral and should be expunged anyway.

That's just my rant on players being greedy and not cooperating in the enjoyment of the group.

As a game I expect fair play, if there is not, I'd note down the others and choose not to play with them again.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

I'd only say you need to follow the module if your running a con or pathfinder society adventure.

Well, since this discussion is on the PFS section of the boards, that's really the only relevant answer here, I suppose. :-)

Nextime - check where I'm replying...

From this perspective, I'd say most of the flavour and fluff can be changed to suit the audience, but the storyline, core plot and encounters should remain the same :)

Modules are there for inspiration.

I'd only say you need to follow the module if your running a con or pathfinder society adventure.

Other than that, everything is up for change.

As a GM/DM it is up to you to balance the storyline, encounters and treasure to suit the game and characters in the game.

It should be challenging, not deadly, fun and concentrate on what the group your playing with is interested in.

No point with lots of roleplaying if your group only wants to kill things, and no point with tweaking encounters too much if your group is able to find ways around almost all of the combat.

Most people have a mix of the two and thats where the tweaking comes in, making the story fit with the planned modules and free play (unplanned) of an ongoing story can be fun.

Adult content also comes up in some games, and if players are unhappy with it, it is modified or toned down to their comfort level while implying enough to let the imagination run. Actually I prefer implying without stating....

I have my gods interact at times, mainly with worthy followers in the sense of omens and dreams, sometimes during formal gatherings a character might receive a blessing of the gods everyone else sees.

Now as not all the gods are good, this can lead to interesting situations where the characters are wondering why they just received a blessing from a god...

and an evil god at that...

:)

Besides that gods can be interacted with in temples and shrines, with magic or by calling on them. This is not always to the advantage of the characters again, and I only use it to add to the storyline, not to take away from the story or smack down a character for some reason.

Can we have a treasure generator app somewhere that we can use based on these tables?

I would say it was meant as a RP Encounter and not intended for combat.

But if the local band of 1st level adventures are hell bent on tracking down an killing a dragon, its not the GM's job to make it easy for them.

There are two lines of thought.

- Every encounter should be killable by the PC's
- Every encounter should be survivable by the PC's

The first one is not that much fun, as you're expected to kill everything you face, and I like at least some role-play in the game otherwise go play a computer game.

A survivable encounter could be if they negotiate they will survive, or they get captured, or when they retreat the monster ignores them as not worth its time...

Just because it is set up that way does not mean the party can't derail the plan and get them selves killed by the big bad.

I usually give hints about their adversary..

This has included a troop of paladins racing ahead of them, and their bodies strewn oven the entrance way, characters remembering previous heroes who disappeared when going after the monster and such things like that.

Maybe throwing in some story about negotiations that have taken place previously.

This is a great role for a bard if there ever was one, to introduce plot points to players ;)

It does lead to my style of play

- every encounter should be fun to play

This includes TPK encounters... if it was not fun, it should not happen. My last session took 4 out of 6 characters out and they enjoyed it. Said it was one of the most memorable encounters to date. It helped that two advanced mirrors of opposition showed just how powerful the PC's were when used against themselves :D

Just read the concept and thought it would have been a great campaign to be a part of.

The death at the end was a little crappy, but understandable, and very fitting based on the players actions.

Rule Note: - I would have allowed the dispel to work that way as it is a choice to auto dispel, he can choose to take 20 on the roll taking the worst possible situation first... its a stretch of the rules, but within its bounds, and then available to players in the campaign...

The use of explosive runes was great, I thought something was fishy with the letters (and only having the king being able to read them) though I thought the letter might contain, "these messagers are assassins and are here to kill you" when I first read TPK.

RD - great use of storyline, plot and an epic player fail. They should have done their homework about the Mage before facing him down.

And if any mage asks if you still have something on you they provided the answer is always "NO!" or yes followed by Nooooooooooooooo.

Rules: For the explosive runes I would rule each player rolls the damage they can't avoid, then reflex for each of the players separately and then roll to see if they take half damage if within 10 ft of another player carrying a letter.

If any survived, they get to roll initiative as they wizard won the surprise round... any low level party would have been wiped by this.

As a campaign I would have set it up as players accused of a crime they didn't commit, with having to prove it was the wizard and they were tricked into delivering the letters...

Could have a feel of Robin Hood, The Three Musketeers and multiple other movies where the heroes are treated as villians by the government.

The thing with the letters was due to player actions more than GM actions, and only a low level party should have been taken out by that.

A party with enough levels would have things like that stashed on extra-dimensional storage devices to protect them from harm (the item as well as the character from the item)

That been said, it was player choice.

If a pilot of a starship chooses to crash into a building at top speed to kill the bad guy, its not the GM's fault the rest of the party on the ship also died... likewise if the characters fight in the starship, shoot the pilot and controls and complain the GM railroaded them.

So as a player I would have been upset at first, but after talking with the GM about what he intended for the party to do, and their campaign I would have been more upset with the group telling them we need to pay more attention next time, and never accuse a wizard in their tower while carrying an item they crafted...

btw - explosive runes are not the only thing that can do this ;)

Some of the impromptu sessions are the best...

I have quite a few where the players story sidetracked the campaign for a session or two due to the players and gm enjoying what was happening.

They are the most memorable parts of campaigns I have been in because the players invested in those parts of the storyline and it really made a difference.

If this is based on the Myan prophecy of 2012 then I'm afraid it has come and gone.

Myan calendars did not have leap years, so due to the number of days involved it was Myan 2012 last year...

We are out of sync due to the extra day every four years to keep the seasons in line.

So simply put no, the world did not end for anyone able to read this post ;)

You could think of it as the following:

- Sorcerers are generally loners (no need to learn or work with other sorcerers)
- Witches can have a society based around their mysterious force and makes a great reason for a coven
- Bards have their college (lesser school of magic)
- Magus might be a wing of a university or a lesser school of magic
- Wizards have their academy / university

And that gives reasons to dislike each other, even rival groups of the same class.

Of course this would all be story elements, and can be fun to play out as long as the group agrees.

What I would do instead of punishment, have one of the parents of the wolves that died show up as the next companion...

Then roleplay the wolf asking what happened to its offspring...

The more the wolf interacts with the players character, the more invested they become in it. Especially if it is helpful and memorable. The penalty comes from the enforced roleplay interactions ;)

One of my clerics took a companion, and instead of an obedient slave, he received an argumentative auditor writing down all his actions. Same game mechanics, but everyone in the party knows who she is.

Another has a thrush for a familiar, and while it does what he asks it to do, its been known to wander off on its own, and its terms of reference have cracked up the party on occasion. It gives you a chance to look at the world from a different perspective, such as "all those two legs look the same to me" when not a party member and things like that.

Other party members can bribe or get themselves on good standing with another players companion or familiar.

Hope this helps.

I currently have it that only heroes and major contributing members of society can be brought back.

Contributing can be for good or evil, but if one of the gods does not think your time is up yet, then its too late and you've passed on to the afterlife.

Add to that, there is always the choice.

Do you want to come back from the dead.

Characters who have died, with any form of will, especially with an inheritance or title, void that title on death. Resurrection does not re-grant you a title that passes on your death.

Add to amusing plot lines where repo collections arrive to take a family heirloom off to the next heir.

:)

And in one campaign I even assigned quests from the gods for each resurrection.

In my current campaign I awaken their signature item with intelligence and increase it intelligence for each death of the character.

One of the characters has just died enough for the item to start forcing its will on the character...

I can say that no player ever thinks resurrection is a good thing after being in one of my campaigns, and NPCs try to avoid it where possible ;)

There are three books I would use to help with this.

Old D&D Wrath of the Immortals - great ideas on ascension to godhood

3.0 D&D Deities and Demigods - also rules on ascension...

Mongoose Publishing Book of Immortals - best rules I have read on going from mortal to demi-god.

All out of print now though.

The book of immortals give a good way to quest up, the other two help plan the destination and powers, and give some decent opposition to stopping you.

I was using it in my last campaign set in Mystara (known world) where immortality (godhood) was achievable via different means with at least five paths that could be taken by seekers.

Most required an god to sponsor you.

Hope this helps.