Blantant abuse of the rules


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

All these threads on adding spells from another spell list made me wonder...
What would happen if a Savant or Samsaran or even a command word item were to have a troublesome spell like say... Summon Eidolon? For a character that does not otherwise have one? I am sure there are many examples of similar cases where a spell depends on a class feature.
would it not work? would it let you make your own eidolon for a short time? would it summon the creators eidolon? would your GM just look at you quietly and then stab you? maybe and maybe not XD but it will happen sooner or later so I might as well take the heat for it.


I'm pretty sure it would just do nothing, since you have no eidolon to summon.

Dark Archive

Samsaran casts summon eidolon

GM: "You summon your eidolon, however as you lack the eidolon class feature you dont actually possess and eidolon hence the spell does nothing"

Its the same effect as if any PC UMD'ed a wand of summon eidolon (only DC20 it can be autopassed at level 5 or 6 but you still lack the eidolon to summon)

Silver Crusade

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As a GM I would laugh and say sure... you summon your Eidolon, btw did you remember to take a level in the class to get a Eidolon to summon?

No..

Well you spent the time drawing upon the mystic energies and pulling your Eidolon through the fabric of reality...

(to player please describe the Eidolon)

This creature appears out of the mystic portal and fades before materailising with a mocking laughter coming from the portal before it closes...

(to other players, please provide mocking laughter)

Now who's next?

If they cast the spell may as well give them something, and let the other players enjoy the experience. :)

Might even encourage them to take the class next level?

Grand Lodge

Other than your summon eidolon question, what are you asking?

Grand Lodge

nothing really... just bored and poking holes in some rules an trying to think of how I can get my monk able to cast flame blade XD

Grand Lodge

That's easy.

Wand of Flame Blade and a UMD check.

Totally RAW.

Grand Lodge

I wish it were that easy... im on a 15 point buy... as a monk... and I need to maintain my skills for requirements for feats... and I need proficiency... total pain in the butt... needs more weapons that strike as touch.
I could probably do it by level 6-7...

Grand Lodge

Net and Lasso hit touch.

Splash weapons hit touch.

Grand Lodge

Lets please stick with flame blade and how I can assemble a monk with it.
or at least a swordlike magic weapon effect or spell of some kind that hits touch.

Grand Lodge

The better question is:

Why Flame Blade?

You add nothing to damage.

Why not a Brilliant Energy weapon?

Dark Archive

low level game... I can get flame blade much earlier than a +5 weapon.

Grand Lodge

Flame Blade will only do +5 damage at 9th level. It may be a touch attack, but adds nothing to hit, other than your BAB and strength.
You can't flurry with it.
You do not get strength to damage.

Grand Lodge

would you understand if I said I was doing master of many styles with efreeti and dragon?


furthermore, the earliest / easiest way i can think of getting Flame Blade would be a 3 level dip in Druid. but then you'll spend your first 5 levels being more Druid than Monk.

i don't know what your build is, race/feats/etc. As a monk, have you considered going Flowing Monk Archetype and Improved Trip(monk bonus feat) and Vicious Stomp(level 1 feat). and if you're human, Fury's Fall as the racial bonus feat?

It's not touch AC, but it's Monk Level + Str + Dex + 2(thank you improved trip!) versus level 1 CMD's, which are usually not high. In addition, the Vicious Stomp gives you a free AoO once the guy you tripped is prone (while he has -4AC!)

Grand Lodge

thats... not a bad idea at all... but... ok... im trying to build a mock jedi XD
hmmm let me look through those various feats and see if they serve my purpose...

Grand Lodge

Ah.
Well, that defeats the purpose of having x1.5 strength to your first unarmed strike.

Entangling foes with a net, and then beating them with your fists sounds better.

What do you want from the spell?

You wield it as a Scimitar, which you are not even proficient with.

Grand Lodge

I mentioned that already. why do I want the spell? its supposed to be a freaking jedi! XD I cant imagine why he would have a flaming swordlike ray that cuts like butter! XD im essentially gonna add my wis bonus to damage (from efreet style adding wis to damage with fire attacks) and giving up flurry means more horrid accuracy.


druid 3 / fighter (lore warden) 2 would get you "Jedi" at level 3, and a decent BAB by level 5 (while still keeping jedi flavor). i'm sure there is a domain or two that also has flame blade on the domain spell list, i'm just too lazy to look right now.

if you're already committed to doing this with a monk and/or have already started playing the character in game, i can't really think of many low level tricks to pull it off with. If you know the game is definitely going to reach level 12+, i'd suggest having a target "Jedi" level of 7 or 8 so you can start looking at feat and item combos that will help you get there.

it's good that you're planning ahead, i'd just keep in mind how high the campaign is going to go so you don't reach the build you really want to play just as the campaign comes to a close.

Grand Lodge

You only get the wisdom bonus to damage when you use Elemental Fist to deal fire damage.

Nothing is added to fire spells.

Grand Lodge

first thing I did when I thought of this was look through domains, bloodlines, schools, patrons, and of course archetypes and feats to find something to give flame blade or something similar... theres nothing! go figure...

Dark Archive

the only other thing that would come close was bladebound magus. If there were some other way to get more magus pool in the BB it wouldnt be bad... I was originally gonna use elemental fist and a ki focus weapon but flame blade is much better duration and touch attack. Im not concerned about strength bonus as I have none XD

Grand Lodge

Why not a Flaming Temple Sword? Flavor it up "lightsaber" style.

Flame Blade does nothing for you.


yeah, an actual flaming weapon would be the next closest thing flavor-wise, and it's not targetting a touch AC. next closest would be a brilliant energy weapon (call it a temple sword or take the Monk Weapon Master archetype for a longsword), but that'd be a level 9+ item. it's still a neat goal, just not sure how to reach it fast with a monk.

if you're definitely going the Ele fist rout, i could have sworn i've seen "extra stunning fist" as a feat, which you could use to fuel more Ele fist attacks per day. or am i thinking of improved stunning fist (the one that gives +1 or 2 to the DC?).

Grand Lodge

what does using a temple sword do for me if I dont have flurry?

Grand Lodge

It is a sword, you are proficient with, and can wield with two hands.

Add flaming, and you get the flavor you seek.


A headband of vast intellegence +2 (4000) could be loaded with umd to allow wand use.

A single level of Druid would also allow the use of a wand

If custom items are allowed a glove of flame blade (can't help but think of it as an oven mitt) would cost 2880 per use per day at CL4 (1d8+2 damage)

For strong Cheese a Base Line (int 10, wis 10, cha 10, empathy, 30ft senses.) Intellegent Ring of Arcane Signets able to cast a second level spell 2x day at Cl 8 (or 1d8+4 for 8 mins) would cost 6300.

If you can stomach enough cheese to build a moon do the intellegent item but with a level 1 pearl of power for the same cost and caster level 17 :P

Grand Lodge

I dont get the headband of int part...?

Grand Lodge

He is talking about having ranks in Use Magic Device, so you can activate a Wand of Flame Blade.

Dark Archive

but... UMD is cha based... what am I missing? does this somehow make UMD in-class for monk?

Grand Lodge

You can put ranks into any skill. Being a class skill only gives you a bonus. A head band of intelligence grants you skill points.

With a Masterwork Tool(Use Magic Device), you can get a +2.

Dark Archive

oooh I getcha now!


blackbloodtroll wrote:
With a Masterwork Tool(Use Magic Device), you can get a +2.

Is there really a tool for UMD ?


It's like BBT said (i tend to suck at explaining my thoughts :)) the op said he was skill starved so the headband fixes the skills.

The really dodgy pearl trick has the added bonus that a mage friend can repop a mage armor spell for your monk too.

In the spirit of blatent rule abuse the intellegent item trick with the ring of arcane signets could for 2700 give you mage armor 3/day at CL8 so 24hours for a much better, cheaper bracers. with a truely scary ego of 1

Grand Lodge

Eridan wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
With a Masterwork Tool(Use Magic Device), you can get a +2.
Is there really a tool for UMD ?

There is a tool for every skill.


How does it look?


The biggest problem I see with the Monk/Druid and Monk/Druid/Magus plans is that Flame Blade sucks since it does so little damage. Maybe you could take Ninja levels so you can get sneak attack damage and an extra attack per round by spending a ki point (with no need to use flurry of blows).

A Monk taking levels in Druid or using wands via UMD wouldn't be a "Blatant abuse of the rules". This seems more like an "Advice" question at this point though.

The Exchange

Drejk wrote:
How does it look?

It's a little notebook with comments in like:

  • You've got it upside-down
  • Lick it and then stand on one leg
  • Try thinking of muffins when you wave it
  • Have you tried turning it off and on again?

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