I've always had the idea in my mind (and a former GM reinforced this between wizards and sorcerers) that a notable number of wizards look down on sorcerers for not being academically trained in their magic.
Now when I look at the fluff behind Pathfinder sorcerers (never played 3E) it seems that they could be just as snooty towards wizards for the wizards having to "learn their magic from books".
Then when you throw witches into the equation their powers are basically granted to them by some mysterious force which makes it seem like both of the other classes could look on them with disdain.
I'm basically asking your opinions on this matter and how you play your character/NPC spellcasters. I'm not saying <i> every </i> wizard has to fit the "no like sorcerers" persona.
Also, while writing this post this question came into my mind: Do wizards have to have some special quality to actually train to become a wizard, or could anybody with the privilege of having the cash and being in the right neighborhood become a wizard? (i.e. Could Valeros have been a wizard had he had access to a school?)
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You could think of it as the following:
- Sorcerers are generally loners (no need to learn or work with other sorcerers)
- Witches can have a society based around their mysterious force and makes a great reason for a coven
- Bards have their college (lesser school of magic)
- Magus might be a wing of a university or a lesser school of magic
- Wizards have their academy / university
And that gives reasons to dislike each other, even rival groups of the same class.
Of course this would all be story elements, and can be fun to play out as long as the group agrees.
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It's always been an unspoken assumption that one had to have something special going on to become a wizard, hence not every peasant with a 9+ intelligence becoming a wizard back in first edition (when a 9+ Int was all you needed...).
The addition of the sorcerer in 3.0 muddied that, as the sorcerer explicitly had 'something special going on' to become a Sorcerer.
Wizards, having schools and academies and instruction, make sense to be more urban, and more organized, and more 'of a like mind,' perhaps even remaining parts of their academies or guilds or whatnot, while Sorcerers, often untrained, or, at best, trained by a single other Sorcerer, and not as part of a society or academy or 'class,' might lack the sort of political / civic clout that a group of wizards might end up developing. (Wizards also have the advantage in magic item crafting, which ends up making local authorities and rulers happier to have them around, as they can amass many spells for crafting, get bonus feats to use for crafting, and have Int, the stat for crafting, as their primary attribute.)
The fact that so many 'humanoid' societies, as of 3rd edition, now have sorcerers instead of 'witch doctors' or 'magic-users,' also has tied sorcery to races like orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, etc. while wizard spellcasting is limited to the 'civilized' races like elves and humans. (A thing of great sadness to me, when I play a wizard, and know that I'll never recapture the glory days of finding a spellbook in every third treasure hoard, to add to my collection!)
Sorcerers, when they are involved in civic affairs, are likely to be quite popular, perhaps even dangerously so, forming their own cults of personality, or developing a 'Rasputin' like reputation for having *too much influence,* and being seen as problematic by other local authorities. (On the other hand, if the local ruling families have a strain of sorcery in their blood, the situation changes radically, and family members who lack that trait may study wizardry just to 'keep up appearances' and be regarded as 'thin blooded' by their sorcerous relations. Royal marriages would be arranged with those of similar bloodlines, also blessed with sorcery, in the hopes that their children will inherit 'the gift,' which has come to be associated with rulership in the region.)
Witches, deriving power from pacts with unknown (and perhaps unknowable) patrons, would likely be looked at askance by both sorcerers and wizards. The wizard might consider the pact-granted arcana to be a sort of 'cheat' to get around not learning their craft as painstakingly as the wizard does (with the much smaller spell-list also being seen as a sign of the inferior nature of witchcraft, to wizardry), while sorcerers might similarly criticize how the witch draws their power from some external source, instead of right-and-properly awakening the power within themselves.
Whether it be a sorcerer, who thinks of their power as inherent to their blood, and their birthright, or a wizard, who has studied till their eyes bled to master arcana and shape the forces of the cosmos through will alone, either might look down upon the witch, entreating power from some third-party, like a divine spellcaster.
Where the various classes would likely get along famously is as part of specific groups. A caravan of Varisians might have a sorcerer, a witch *and* an illusion-specialist wizard (and perhaps a bard or two!), and all of them might be great friends, despite very different arcane traditions.
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Set pretty much covers it. I think class rivalries in character are great fun as long as they don't ruin entertainment for any of the players.
Wizard to Witch "So, did your cat give you any left overs today?"
etc :)
Set pretty much covers it. I think class rivalries in character are great fun as long as they don't ruin entertainment for any of the players.
Wizard to Witch "So, did your cat give you any left overs today?"
etc :)
gross.
I always see the difference between wizards and sorcerers as the difference between Raistlin Majere and Harry Potter.
Yeah, there's going to be some friction.
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In our group, my sorceress has some friendly quibbles with the wizard.
His stance: 'Magic is too dangerous a force to be used by amateurs like you, who don't even know what they're doing.'
My stance: 'If there's anyone ill-eqipped for dealing with the art, it would be you. You strive to comprehend magic. I am magic.'
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I always see the difference between wizards and sorcerers as the difference between Raistlin Majere and Harry Potter.
Yeah, there's going to be some friction.
I guess I always saw Sorcerers as X-Men and wizards closer to Harry Potter (Potter, other than having his powers being 'inborn' matches Wizards more closely than Sorcerers IMHO). I always pictured beginning sorcerers accidently burning their parents to death or charming the pants off some young boy before she realizes she's using magic.
Wizards would distrust Sorcerers as wild elements and they could be easily hunted.
Both might be bothered by Witches, who have that who, 'I prostituted my soul' thing going on.
Witches could also be on the high-and-mighty end of the deal. Being granted magic from a higher power may be seen as "cheating" by everyone else, but witches never explicitly offer their soul to anything. Their patrons just select them.
So it may be seen by some that they were granted arcane power from a divine/profane source that is worthy of some praise/respect/fear from others.
To go along with the flavor texts presented up-thread...
Witch: "My master has deemed me fit to wield this magic. Who are you to say otherwise?"
Witch: "My master has deemed me fit to wield this magic. Who are you to say otherwise?"
Ha! I just had an Inquisitor of mine say that very thing to someone that was getting uppity about him being a half elf.
So, where do Summoners fit in with all of this?
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So, where do Summoners fit in with all of this?
Some pretentious wizards like to boast that they are 'making reality sit down and do what they say,' but Summoners *are actually doing it.*
Summoners can also make reality roll over, play fetch, and, oh yes, eat your face off.
The wizard retorts that the Summoner is an over-rated conjuration specialist with a neat trick, but a paltry selection of magics.
The sorcerer ponders aloud that the Summoner pretty much *is* the sorcerer version of a 'school specialist' and wonders when the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are going to show up.
The witch looks at the eidolon, and then looks at her familiar, and mutters, "I hate you."