Would Paizo ever buy the rights to the DnD brand from Hasbro?


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Rynjin wrote:


As for Paizo buying the brand...unlikely, I think. I think if possible they'd buy PORTIONS of the brand (non-OGC monsters, for example) but it seems to me the Paizo staff has pretty much everything they need here. They have their own setting, which they're proud of, so I don't see them buying Forgotton Realms or Eberron or what have you wholesale. All of the base rules are open content, so they don't NEED to buy those.

They have their own Iconic characters and have, as far as I know, never shown any interest in bringing in big name DnD NPCs. Again, they're proud of their own creations, and see no need to use someone else'.

I would be astonished if they'd even be interested in buying the rights for a dollar. Taking on the D&D legacy would be more trouble than it'd be worth to them, I think. What Paizo have created is really quite remarkable. They don't need any further help and it would feel (to me, anyhow) as something of a confession of inadequacy.

Far better to work to be the spiritual successor than try and be the actual, legal owner of the original game.


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Sleet Storm wrote:
Couldn't have proved my point better.You didn't know DnD, you didn't know it was about DnD, yet you still read it.The Brand was not a factor in you picking up or enjoying the book.

I'm a bit confused now.

I thought you were saying that the licensed products had no value to people not in the TRPG community because they had no draw outside of there, which is what I was replying to.

And you CAN'T publish the novels, movies, and so forth without the brand unless it becomes public domain or something. You have to hold the rights to Forgotten Realms to write stories about Drizzt and his pals, and the places they go.

So the brand is important in that the things don't exist without the brand.


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Sleet Storm wrote:

Couldn't have proved my point better.You didn't know DnD, you didn't know it was about DnD, yet you still read it.The Brand was not a factor in you picking up or enjoying the book.

Drizzt is the brand.

Shadow Lodge

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Sleet Storm wrote:
If you can sell it then its not a sunk cost,a brand name is only an asset if the brand is recognized, so every year nothing is published it loses value.

Except the RPG is only a portion of what the brand name consists of. Video games and novels are where Hasbro is making money from D&D. The actual RPG is pretty damn inconsequential, I would wager.


The rest I can get along fine without but I would like to see Paizo do Darksun.

Silver Crusade

I would like to see Paizo purchase Spelljammer from WOTC and Ravenloft from Necromancer games.

Shadow Lodge

Err, from Necromancer Games? Huh?

I think you mean White Wolf. And they only licensed it.


shallowsoul wrote:
and Ravenloft from Necromancer games.

I think that would probably be very confusing for them.


Who cares about Paizo buying D&D? I'm still waiting for my official Ponyfinder sourcebook!

Shadow Lodge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Who cares about Paizo buying D&D? I'm still waiting for my official Ponyfinder sourcebook!

link


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Who cares about Paizo buying D&D? I'm still waiting for my official Ponyfinder sourcebook!

On the off-chance you weren't completely joking and weren't aware of it being done:

Ponyfinder

Otherwise, I apologize :)


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I repeat:
I'm still waiting for my official sourcebook.

Silver Crusade

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I'd rather D&D stay separate to pathfinder.

They have each gone in different directions and while it would be nice to see some of the licensed 3.5 monsters appear in pathfinder, I like the pathfinder game as it is. Golarion feels more solid than most of the D&D settings I have run.

D&D Next will bring some people back, gain a new following and continue the brand. They have a history of worlds to pick from, each with comics, video games, novels.

I'm sure they will looking into another cartoon like the clone wars which then gives them another brand of toys on a license they own.

Just imagine if they went and turned each of their settings into cartoons. I did like the Dragonlance one, and while I wished for more of the story, I did enjoy it.

Dark Archive

Eh I for one would love to see some of that old Dragonlance stuff given a Paizo treatment. Bout all I can say there =)


Oh, man, an actually non-crappy Dragonlance cartoon would be amazing. Even the Rankin & Bass-style movie couldn't take out all the coolness--with some decent animators, decent writers and a teensy bit of effort, I'm pretty sure the result would be suitably awesome.

Would also be cool to see an Eberron cartoon--I have a feeling that would be a good deal more successful, at least for an ATLA-style show.

Ravenloft would probably work best as a graphic novel series, and Drizz't...well, I know nothing about him except people seem to either love or loathe the guy. :P


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Sleet Storm wrote:

I don't understand why people think hasbro will never sell the rights.As soon as they think there isn't any economic sense in keeping them they are gone, trust me.

Its not even a competition thing, if hasbro sells dnd they are out of PnP RPG's ,so they could care less about Paizos market share at that point.They are already not making enough money with 4e, if 5e fails to substantially exceed 4e's numbers that should be it for them as far as I can see.

Hmm, let's see...

The Transformers brand is an excellent example why Hasbro will never sell any of their IP rights; TF stopped being popular in the US back in the late 80's-early 90's, but made one hell of a comeback. GI Joe is another.

Heck, I'd be willing to bet that at least half of their IP's were based on a product originally released a few decades ago, hit a slump, and then came back and became popular again.

D&D is a household-name brand. If I tell someone I play Pathfinder, they look confused. If I mention it's a RPG, they still don't know for sure what I'm talking about(and usually mention Final Fantasy or Zelda).

If I say "I play D&D," people know what I'm talking about. Even if they aren't 100% sure what a TTRPG entails, they know they've heard D&D before.

Even if the D&D brand flat out died and hit zero sales, Hasbro would shelve it, before ever selling it.

Also, money-wise, 4e didn't exactly "fail." Sure, D&D Next might feel like it's coming on a little quick, but 4e still sold a hell of a lot of books. Even beyond the books, the D&D brand extends to a LOT of other products.


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Sleet Storm wrote:

I've only recently seen the playtest for DnD next. I know I'm way late, but still ,my verdict on this is :this won't save DnD.

Also read up on where the DnD brand stands within the Hasbro company and it looks like they value it somewhere inbetween the dirt under their fingernails and the dust on the floor.

So hypothetically,if Hasbro decides they won't bother anymore and get out of PnP RPG's completely, would Paizo even be interested?

I think a year or so ago, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Hasbro does not value D&D very highly. And it's true even now that as a P&P game, Hasbro sees it very much as a niche product.

According to some reports, Hasbro grades its products on what makes them money every year and if a product line does not make them $20 million minimum, it's very likely to get shelved. And D&D as a P&P game never made them that much (except, maybe, the first couple of years of 3E). Previously WotC got around this by having all of their products graded together, so D&D and MAGIC and STAR WARS and everything else was lumped together. This is why some people say that MAGIC subsidised D&D, because it basically did. At some point WotC's product lines had to stand up by themselves, and when that happened D&D's financial situation became clearer.

The only things that saved the day, AFAIK, are the novel sales which have always remained strong, and also the computer games. There is also the situation with the long-gestating 'proper' D&D movie. Hasbro's policy is to exploit some products through selling film rights and then using that to boost their profile. This is how they brought TRANSFORMERS back into becoming a flagship line after years in the doldrums. This is their current main policy with D&D: to get a big-budget movie made. This is why they're now engaged in legal discussions over the rival Courney Solomon big-screen project.

If the movie bombs or never happens due to the legal issues, Hasbro may look at benching D&D to bring it back a few years later with a big media frenzy. Licensing it to a rival doesn't seem to be part of Hasbro's ethos.

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There is no value in shelving a brand name if you can sell it.If it doesn't actively make money right now its a liability and needlesly binds money.

Hasbro are prepared to play the long game and bench a property for years if they can then bring it back with a huge fuss. They kept TRANSFORMERS going at a very low ebb for several years before the ENERGON/CYBERTRON explosion of the early 2000s and then the Bay movies.

If Hasbro concluded that the brand did not have any value at all, yes, they might consider selling it off. However, the D&D brand has value for the novels (D&D has sold many times as many novels as it has RPG books), the computer games (NEVERWINTER seems to have done better than expected; even the BALDUR'S GATE re-release has been successful) and of course, the hoped-for film franchise, which could make Hasbro millions or billions if it is a huge hit.

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Haha:) get ready for DnD the ENERGY DRINK.

Steven Segal has an energy drink. Drizz Do'Urden could easily have one :)

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Exactly, especially when utilizing their rights requires further investment into a product line that has already shown a low performance in the past.

But it doesn't. Creating 5E costs money, sure. If it bombs, then they can shut down the RPG department, fire everyone there but keep the novelists and the editor on. They can also keep the computer game liaison people, and the people involved in the movie deal. But the RPG department can simply be shut down (let's hope it isn't, of course), removing that investment cost.

I think the problem is that you are primarily seeing the value from the D&D brand name in terms of the money the RPG itself brings in. I don't think that's been true since the late 1980s at the latest. Since then the novels have always been far more profitable. I think in the period 1998-2005 (or so) the computer games also made a lot more money. D&D may have started as a roleplaying game, but that is not what has made Hasbro the most money out of the franchise.

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DnD is obviously worth much less so no they wouldn't want 100 mil for the rights I don't think.

D&D as a brand and franchise would be worth a lot more than $5 million. You look at the books and computer games it's shifted in the past, and it comes to way more than that. The book-publishing arm alone probably generates a lot more than that in profit in a good year.

The RPG doesn't make anywhere near that, true. But as has been said many times, the RPG game is not what D&D means in Hasbro's eyes.

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The movie licensing thing doesn´t really convince me.Theres been two movies already and they sucked donkeyballs both artistically and at the box office.I think people underestimate the importance of actually having the game out that is associated with the brand.DnD hasn't shown itself to be a crowd magnet,they tried.

Well, Hasbro has a deal right now with Universal, so clearly both Hasbro and a major Hollywood studio disagree with you. They are also taking legal action to block Courtney Solomon and Warner Brothers's own D&D movie project, which they wouldn't do if they didn't see value in it.

Everyone agrees the three D&D movies (yes, there's a third one; technically four if you count the DRAGONLANCE cartoon, but that was a Hasbro-approved product AFAIK) are terrible, but also that they are badly-written, badly-directed and they were poorly marketed. Hasbro didn't have anything to do with the previous projects and didn't bring to bear the kind of creative and marketing firepower they did with TRANSFORMERS to make it huge (even though it was also terrible). If they did that, a D&D movie could be pretty big. If they did a movie of THE CRYSTAL SHARD and brought in the massive Salvatore/FORGOTTEN REALMS fanbase who don't give a toss about the D&D game, that would also help enormously.

A movie would be potentially massive if done right. The existing movies are a good example of how not to do it right.

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What I am saying is that the Brand has no "draw" outside of the gaming industry.

D&D's brand draw is definitely lower than it has been before, possibly ever. However, FORGOTTEN REALMS, Drizzt Do'Urden and DRAGONLANCE are all still big and notable brand names. NEVERWINTER NIGHTS and BALDUR'S GATE are also still quite well-known and respected. They are names that are worth more than D&D itself right now, frankly.

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True ,but the new movie about Orcs and Goblins in [insert random and/or nameless fantasy setting here] would probably be as well recieved by the general public as the new movie about orcs and goblins in forgotten realms.

Yes, but that's why you don't do that. If you instead do a Drizzt movie it would be much more impactful. Salvatore's books have sold over 30 million copies worldwide, that's more than all the D&D core rulebooks for each edition combined. The first two DRAGONLANCE trilogies have sold over 20 million copies and the same thing applies there (though they'd be more expensive, and require multiple movies from the off whilst Drizzt could start with a one-off adaptation of THE CRYSTAL SHARD to test the waters).

Sovereign Court

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I guess the next question is, would Paizo buy them even if they had the chance? I am not sure why they would. Right now they are doing great with their own line of products. They would have to put up a ton of cash to license D&D (no way Hasbro would sell) and form a team to work on D&D stuff. Not seeing the upside here. Sure D&D fans of settings might love Paizo picking up the license, but once again what is in it for Paizo?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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Pretty much exactly everything Werthead said, except "impactful." For shame, Werthead.


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Yeah, Werthead kinda knocked it outta the park. Wish I could just delete my post, lol.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Werthead wrote:

I think a year or so ago, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Hasbro does not value D&D very highly. And it's true even now that as a P&P game, Hasbro sees it very much as a niche product.

According to some reports, Hasbro grades its products on what makes them money every year and if a product line does not make them $20 million minimum, it's very likely to get shelved. And D&D as a P&P game never made them that much (except, maybe, the first couple of years of 3E). Previously WotC got around this by having all of their products graded together, so D&D and MAGIC and STAR WARS and everything else was lumped together. This is why some people say that MAGIC subsidised D&D, because it basically did. At some point WotC's product lines had to stand up by themselves, and when that happened D&D's financial situation became clearer.

The only things that saved the day, AFAIK, are the novel sales which have always remained strong, and also the computer games. There is also the situation with the long-gestating 'proper' D&D movie. Hasbro's policy is to exploit some products through selling film rights and then using that to boost their profile. This is how they brought TRANSFORMERS back into becoming a flagship line after years in the doldrums. This is their current main policy with D&D: to get a big-budget movie made. This is why they're now engaged in legal discussions over the rival Courney Solomon big-screen project.

The reports I saw set the value at $50 million to be considered a core brand at Hasbro. Even with novel sales, I would expect that to be a challenging level to meet for D&D.

However, it's possible that WotC got the freedom to spend a couple of years on R&D from Hasbro based on the resurging value of Magic, whose revenues are up. If they're lucky, D&D may now be considered part of the core Wizards of the Coast property rather than a brand alone and realize the plan WotC had for D&D back before they sold into Hasbro - have the profits of Magic subsidize the continued production of D&D.

It's also possible that the prospects of getting the computer game rights back under the umbrella and the dreams of higher computer game revenue gave WotC the allowance to engage in relatively lavish R&D.

Either way, the fact that Wizards is investing in RPG R&D after the 4e experience suggests Hasbro isn't willing to sell. D&D Next would probably have to abjectly fail for Hasbro to push it off on anyone else and by then the brand is so damaged...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pan wrote:
I guess the next question is, would Paizo buy them even if they had the chance? I am not sure why they would. Right now they are doing great with their own line of products. They would have to put up a ton of cash to license D&D (no way Hasbro would sell) and form a team to work on D&D stuff. Not seeing the upside here. Sure D&D fans of settings might love Paizo picking up the license, but once again what is in it for Paizo?

You also aren't taking into account the other issue. Assuming they mortgaged everything including the kitchen sink to buy the license. They're going to have major problems supporting both their own campaign worlds and all of the WOTC ones.

While a D+D purchase might, MIGHT spell good news for Forgotten Realms fans, it may very well be a disaster for those of us who've already have an emotional investment in Golarion. It could easily even wind up being bad news for everyone.

Liberty's Edge

LizardMage wrote:
I really just want Paizo or some third party would buy Dark Sun and Dragonlance from them. Hmmm maybe I could start an online charity and do it myself...

One of the creators of Dark Sun is making a spiritual successor to the campaign. The kickstarter is available here.


ShadowcatX wrote:
LizardMage wrote:
I really just want Paizo or some third party would buy Dark Sun and Dragonlance from them. Hmmm maybe I could start an online charity and do it myself...
One of the creators of Dark Sun is making a spiritual successor to the campaign. The kickstarter is available here.

Oh that looks sweet as...

Damn you ShadowcatX!


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The reports I saw set the value at $50 million to be considered a core brand at Hasbro. Even with novel sales, I would expect that to be a challenging level to meet for D&D.

It wouldn't surprise me if they'd moved it up (though I'd heard $20 million pure profit, not just turnover) since things like TRANSFORMERS made such vast amounts of money for them: Hasbro likely pocketed $100 million+ from each of the three movies in release year or the financial year following, not counting actual toy sales or comic licensing or video game income.

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However, it's possible that WotC got the freedom to spend a couple of years on R&D from Hasbro based on the resurging value of Magic, whose revenues are up. If they're lucky, D&D may now be considered part of the core Wizards of the Coast property rather than a brand alone and realize the plan WotC had for D&D back before they sold into Hasbro - have the profits of Magic subsidize the continued production of D&D.

This was actually the situation ten years ago. What I've heard (from various Internet sources, so take with some salt) is that this is what used to be the case up until after 4E came out, that all Wizards properties were lumped together and Wizards was allowed to operate more autonomously. However, more recently each product line within Wizards has had to justify itself to Hasbro and if it hasn't, it's either been benched or a strategy developed to bring it into profitability. I'm assuming the latter is what has happened with D&D, hence 5E/Next and the renewed focus on video games (hence NEVERWINTER, the BG remakes and whatever comes next) and a new movie deal.

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Either way, the fact that Wizards is investing in RPG R&D after the 4e experience suggests Hasbro isn't willing to sell. D&D Next would probably have to abjectly fail for Hasbro to push it off on anyone else and by then the brand is so damaged...

Agreed. I think it 5E/Next fails, then we will see the end (for a few years anyway) of D&D as a pen-and-paper roleplaying game. D&D will become a franchise name for video games, novels and the possible movie deal, but the P&P game will be effectively dead. At that point someone might be able to licence it, whether Paizo or (possibly more likely) someone like Fantasy Flight.

Grand Lodge

Would Paizo ever buy the rights to the DnD brand from Hasbro?

Oh, God, I hope so!

I don't think it'd be bad AT ALL for Golarion. It would help the Pathfinder World!

Oerth can be in the adjacent solar system and Paizo can publish back and forth between the two.

For other stuff: Ravenloft, FR, Planescape, Dark Sun,... Paizo can let 3rd party publishers play with those.

Most importantly we can have Mind Flayers, Githyanki, Yuan Ti, Beholders and a host of Demon Lords back as official canon instead of Homebrew Conversions.

Golarion is strong enough and developped enough not to get hurt by adding Greyhawk to the mix of what Paizo can publish. And the other stuff can be loaned or sublicensed (or whatever) to 3PPs, only making Paizo stronger.

(Because those 3PP will give young, no-name designers a chance to enter the industry, creating a new pool of talent for paizo to hire -- and to a minor degree, compete with.)

Grand Lodge

I would donate to Paizo if they set up a fund to buy the IP for D&D.

I would especially donate to a fund for the IP of the monsters, demonlords, and Greyhawk.


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W E Ray wrote:

Would Paizo ever buy the rights to the DnD brand from Hasbro?

Oh, God, I hope so!

I don't think it'd be bad AT ALL for Golarion. It would help the Pathfinder World!

Oerth can be in the adjacent solar system and Paizo can publish back and forth between the two.

For other stuff: Ravenloft, FR, Planescape, Dark Sun,... Paizo can let 3rd party publishers play with those.

Most importantly we can have Mind Flayers, Githyanki, Yuan Ti, Beholders and a host of Demon Lords back as official canon instead of Homebrew Conversions.

Golarion is strong enough and developped enough not to get hurt by adding Greyhawk to the mix of what Paizo can publish. And the other stuff can be loaned or sublicensed (or whatever) to 3PPs, only making Paizo stronger.

(Because those 3PP will give young, no-name designers a chance to enter the industry, creating a new pool of talent for paizo to hire -- and to a minor degree, compete with.)

Paizo can barely keep up with their own lines workload wise. Adding just one more setting might very well break them without significantly increasing their hires

I do like the the idea of possibly licensing the material to 3pp publishers for the Pathfinder system, but question how many people could actually afford the licensing

Liberty's Edge

littlehewy wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
LizardMage wrote:
I really just want Paizo or some third party would buy Dark Sun and Dragonlance from them. Hmmm maybe I could start an online charity and do it myself...
One of the creators of Dark Sun is making a spiritual successor to the campaign. The kickstarter is available here.

Oh that looks sweet as...

Damn you ShadowcatX!

Always a pleasure to help spread Dark Sun love.


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I wouldn't want Paizo to buy the D&D brand. What I would love, is for Wizards to start making PFRPG compatible material. Perhaps as a start, they could make an Eberron World Guide, launching with a module and an adventure path volume, as well as a player companion and a novel - basically in the style of Paizo. I say Eberron first, because Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are honestly too similar in setting to the Inner Sea (though I'd love to see Greyhawk given the treatment as well). Dark Sun would also be a good choice, or Planescape.


I could actually see the above happening (although still with low probability)...they are after all republishing the old systems, and seem to be going in an "support all systems approach" with DnD next

Scarab Sages

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One point to consider is this...why in the world would Paizo WANT the rights to DnD? Not that DnD is not attractive, but thats like running Blizzard and wanting the rights to Microsoft. They are doing two totally different things.

Paizo is fully invested in the world of Golarion and has a full plate for probably at least the next 5-7 years fleshing that out and writing as much as their staff can stick on paper. They have a couple of hardbacks a year coming out, and if the past is any indicator, they are growing as fast as they can hire new staff.

These next few paragraphs are all best guess/speculation on my part, having no insider knowledge about how Paizo operates, only my own personal observations.

Now say Hasbro sold them the rights for DnD for an affordable price. First off, they would have to either triple the size of their company staffwise overnight, or they would have to shelve Pathfinder or the DnD line. They are just not equipped to take on that huge a project without sacrificing an opportunity (Pathfinder/Golarion) that is at least as lucrative. It would make more sense for them to buy the rights, strip off say a few delectable settings or game systems that appeal to the owners hearts, and re-sell the rest.

Frankly, I think Paizo has too much respect for the DnD name brand and history to short change it like they would have to and they have too much love for their own game to sacrifice it either.

TL; DR - It would be like Ford buying Chevy (or vice versa), too much would be lost trying to make it work to make the deal a good one for either side.

Shadow Lodge

redcelt32 wrote:
One point to consider is this...why in the world would Paizo WANT the rights to DnD? Not that DnD is not attractive, but thats like running Blizzard and wanting the rights to Microsoft. They are doing two totally different things.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement, given that the core of Pathfinder is a slightly tweaked copy-paste of the 3.5 SRD.


Kthulhu wrote:
redcelt32 wrote:
One point to consider is this...why in the world would Paizo WANT the rights to DnD? Not that DnD is not attractive, but thats like running Blizzard and wanting the rights to Microsoft. They are doing two totally different things.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement, given that the core of Pathfinder is a slightly tweaked copy-paste of the 3.5 SRD.

I think rephrasing it as

"Paizo is a company that puts out Adventure Paths and other books to support them, while the D&D branding wouldn't really help them with that"
would outline the position a bit better.

Branding the books with a D&D logo might sell more core rulebooks, but probably isn't at this stage going to do much for the APs that are Paizo's monthly bread+butter.

So not two totally different things, but certainly two totally different foci.


redcelt32 wrote:

One point to consider is this...why in the world would Paizo WANT the rights to DnD? Not that DnD is not attractive, but thats like running Blizzard and wanting the rights to Microsoft. They are doing two totally different things.

I can think of several reasons.

1) Intellectual Property. There are many iconic monsters, classes, and other things which would fit nicely into the Paizo portfolio. The ability to use these as they wish would be attractive.

2) Branding. Until very recently Paizo billed Pathfinder as "compatible with the 3.5 version of the world's best selling role-playing game." Even though they are currently outselling D&D (which has only happened as WotC was scaling down 4e, and may or may not continue to be the case as the D&D brand gets regular publishing support) having that brand on their products would almost certainly boost sales AND allow them to increase their shelf presence in national retailers.

3) Legacy. The owners and developers of Paizo were integral players in creating much of what is currently owned under the D&D banner. I think they would be glad to own their own work.

Liberty's Edge

This isn't going to happen, so stop fantasizing. Hasbro would demand far too much money for it's has-been D&D brand.


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But then, how much is any of the above worth to Paizo? 2 is about the only mention I can think of that would make it MAYBE profitable, but the IP won't go cheap


MMCJawa wrote:
But then, how much is any of the above worth to Paizo? 2 is about the only mention I can think of that would make it MAYBE profitable, but the IP won't go cheap

1 and 2 may be more profitable than you believe. If Paizo owns that IP and Brand not only do they get to use it, but no one else gets to use it in competition with them.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

Well, with the republishing of the old D&D titles recently, there is no sign (IMO) that Hasbro wants to sell D&D at all - otherwise, why bother preparing the grounds for the buyer? And with the other plans that seem to be brewing, it gets even less likely.

Furthermore, the Paizonians have stated several times that this won´t happen. They have their own successful RPG right now, started to branch out into related fields, and seem to have their hands as full as ever with the stuff they do right now. And they are interested in developing their own brand, not redoing old stuff. And frankly, being at the helm for the redevelopment of one game setting and later producing magazines is a wholly different beast from managing a huge brand with almost 40 years of history behind it, as far as I can tell.

Mind you, I´d love to see some settings getting a makeover (Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Al Qadim, Mystara are my personal favorites), but truth to be told, I´ve all but moved on from these settings as well. It would be pure nostalgia on my part, and I can´t say just how much money I would invest in that.

Nostalgia is a powerful emotion, but you have to be able to afford it.


Keep in mind, that as part of Hasbro, D&D has access to MAJOR retailers and toy stores that Paizo would have trouble accessing.

It's actually better to have a easier, cheaper D&D at the nation's biggest toy stores, because that funnels people to Paizo over time.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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Not only is Paizo purchasing D&D extremely unlikely, it's also, IMO, a "worst-case" scenario. Paizo would probably need a large influx of cash to acquire the brand, which is now of dubious value; this influx would most likely come from an IPO. While there are many of us that would buy the crap out of Paizo stock if there ever were such a thing, it would result in two very undesirable outcomes: 1) Paizo would suddenly become accountable to shareholders, whose interests might not align with those of its fans and customers; and 2) Paizo's own very strong brand would get diluted.

Mindflayers in Golarion? Sign me up. But I think, in the final analysis, the juice isn't worth the squeeze for that.


A scenario where, if Next "fails" (whatever that means), Hasbro licenses the D&D brand to Paizo for TRPG use, retaining the rest of the IP, is not particularly implausible, and would help Paizo (being the official D&D game is worth something, and might help them get into places where they currently aren't) in the short term. But Paizo would probably lose it at the end of the first license period when somebody at Hasbro decided to do a new initiative anyway.

Anything else, no, whether Paizo would or not, Hasbro wouldn't. D&D is a "household name", and that's worth a lot as potential future revenue. It can potentially power novels, movies, board games (Dungeon!), computer games, TV series, even kids' toys. Imagine D&D-branded "Holy Avenger", "Twinkle", "Icingdeath", and "Vorpal Blade" all hanging in a toy aisle next to the lightsabers and various toy guns. I assure you, Hasbro execs can.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Thanis Kartaleon wrote:
I wouldn't want Paizo to buy the D&D brand. What I would love, is for Wizards to start making PFRPG compatible material. Perhaps as a start, they could make an Eberron World Guide, launching with a module and an adventure path volume, as well as a player companion and a novel - basically in the style of Paizo.

I would absolutely hate this as I would be torn between not wanting to buy Pathfinder system supplements but also being a big Eberron fan.

Despite playing PF I am not a big fan of the system due to some of the weird problems Paizo introduced into the 3.x system; I still prefer 3.5 (and even 4e) to it.

I guess I would end up not buying the Eberron books because I am also a big Freeport fan (having the 3.5 books and also the Savage Worlds, 4e, M&M and now the Fate Core companions) but I passed on the Freeport 3rd Edition Kickstarter because Green Ronin were tying it to the Pathfinder system.

I wouldn't necessarily mind Paizo obtaining the D&D brand I guess, as long as it required them to produce a new core set of rulebooks branded as D&D (i.e. D&D X Edition even if based on the Pathfinder system) and Paizo used that opportunity to correct all the issues they introduced. Pathfinder would then become a Campaign Setting of the D&D system like it was back in 3.5 (i.e. there would be only Paizo's D&D system and not a Pathfinder System).

Or maybe better still if they changed the system even more - something akin to the D&D Next system might be cool.

Though I imagine many PF fans would hate that.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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LizardMage wrote:
Sleet Storm wrote:
Haha:) get ready for DnD the ENERGY DRINK.
Jones soda did D&D themed sodas.

Our German translation partner, Ulisses Spiele, did a small run of Pathfinder energy drinks, along with a bunch of the other brands they publish.

You can see the front of the can here.


Vic Wertz wrote:
LizardMage wrote:
Sleet Storm wrote:
Haha:) get ready for DnD the ENERGY DRINK.
Jones soda did D&D themed sodas.

Our German translation partner, Ulisses Spiele, did a small run of Pathfinder energy drinks, along with a bunch of the other brands they publish.

You can see the front of the can here.

The first time I clicked the link it took me to a different place than the second time. Neither place had a picture of a can :( ... And I don't read German.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Sleet Storm wrote:

No, it sold rights.The only example I could find right now is Scruples but I am sure theres more.

They also sold Infogrames bought it back then sold it again.

EDIT: Oh , found another big one Hasbro actually owned the rights to Atari and sold them to Infogrames they also sold their Hasbro Interactive branch to them. So yeah, they do sell Brands.

That was over a decade ago. I don't think they've sold anything off since then.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

BigDTBone wrote:
The first time I clicked the link it took me to a different place than the second time.

Can't explain that...

BigDTBone wrote:
Neither place had a picture of a can :( ... And I don't read German.

It's just the front label, so it's square. Direct link to image.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

MMCJawa wrote:
The rights to the DnD movies were sold before Hasbro bought WOTC....

Before Wizards even bought TSR!


That's pretty cool, was it part of a launch promotion with the beginner box?

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