stoolpigeon87's page

So I know bastard swords are frequently confusing. I thought I understood them pretty well. They are 2-handed for all purposes except they can be held one-handed if you have EWP: Bastard Swords. And I know you can wield a Large Bastard Sword Two Handed if you have EWP Bastard Sword, albeit at a -2 penalty.

What happens if you combine this with Titan Fighter and her level 1 class feature.

"Giant Weapon Wielder (Ex)

At 1st level, a titan fighter can wield two-handed melee weapons intended for creatures one size category larger than himself, treating them as two-handed weapons. He takes an additional –2 penalty on attack rolls when using an over-sized two-handed weapon.

This ability replaces the fighter's 1st level bonus feat."

1) Can a player wield a Huge Bastard Sword if he has EWP?

2) If not, does this even interact at all with Bastard Sword? If I look too hard at it it seems to do actually give you MORE penalties to a character wielding an oversized Bastard Sword.

Addendum:

What about a player who is Fighter Titan Fighter 1/Barbarian Titan Mauler 2? Can he then use a Huge Bastard Sword?

So what exactly does "Against her will" mean? I know that seems like a dumb question, but it's sort of important. Also, the idea of rerolls in general are incredibly abstract in-universe.

Does it mean that if I, as their ally, force them to reroll something (via Misfortune from Dual-Cursed Oracle or something similar) do they get the benefit of Aura of Excellence? After all, I am MAKING them reroll. Their character probably trusts their Paladin adventuring friend, so I'd say "no," but what if that character mistrusts the Paladin? What if our goals don't align? Are they even cognizant of my tampering with their luck? Most importantly, where is the distinction between "beneficial reroll" and "detrimental reroll" when the reroll abilities say "take the second result, even if worse."

This is important, since the idea of a luck-based Paladin splashing Oracle or something similar seems super fun mechanically, but is incredibly nebulous with how it functions RAW.

RAI obviously it's supposed to be rerolls from opponents who mean you harm. But RAW that's not what it says. And honestly, how many times will you face an opponent who forces rerolls? Once, twice in your character's lifetime if you're lucky?

(In a similar fashion, can't a Dual Cursed Oracle use Misfortune on their friends? RAI probably not, but RAW it certainly seems like it.)

Requiring an attack roll to make a spell "weapon like" would be short and concise, and is what I assume is correct.

Also, if it were up to me, Magus would be able to use Precise Strike with Spell Combat if the second "off hand" spell didn't roll to hit. I think that'd be a fair compromise between balance, RAI, and RAW. It doesn't make a bunch of sense for a Magus to be considered "attacking with his off hand" when he is using said off hand to caste Shield on himself or whatever. But I digress.

Also FAQ'd, though I think it'd behoove me to remove the bit about Magii in the first post so it follows the guidelines for FAQing.

EDIT: TIL I learned you can't edit a post after a certain amount of time. Weird.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, it'd be a good idea for Paizo to jump on this while the Occult Playtest is still in full swing, since one of the most unique classes in said playtest is all about blasting as a sort of "martial" class. Making all the rules regarding stuff like this concise and neatly clarified would remove a lot of rule headaches during the playtest, and would probably lead to better playtest results.

Alternate ACG path to Arcane Trickster:

4 lvls of Stygian Slayer - can cast Invisibility, 1d6 sneak attack, full bab, other stuff
1 lvl Snakebite Striker Brawler - 1d6 sneak attack, full bab, other stuff
1 lvl of any caster class that can cast Mage Hand (Magus is good)

The Stygian Slayer Invisibility counts as you 2nd lvl or higher arcane spell

Enjoy all that sweet BAB

Nice catch! If someone were looking for a more martial bent AT this is a good chassis to start with.

Another oddball chassis to play with from the ACG: The Cult Leader Warpriest. You gain 1d6 SA at level 3. You could do something like Half-Elf WP 3/SA Class 1/Caster Class 1/AT. I don't know if it's any good, but it's certainly cool.

Also, Snakebite Striker Brawler allows you to go Brawler 1/SA Class 1/Caster 2 for an early entry into AT which gains you one more Effective Caster Level without the normal loss of BAB from Rogue or Ninja 1/Vivisectionist 1. Again, not sure if this is better than the more traditional routes since both Rogue and Ninja bring a lot to builds involving this PrC. But a bonus to your casting is a bonus to your casting...

So we know that affects that boost plain weapon damage like a Bard's Inspire Courage also applies to "Weapon like spells and rays."

With that in mind, what the heck is and isn't a weapon-like spell? Are an Arcanist's attack exploits Weapon Like? Is Fiery Shuriken? Clearly anything that creates a melee weapon and any ray is considered a weapon, but what about Supernatural affects like said Arcanist or a Sound Striker Bard? What about other oddball spells like Snowball?

In a similar vein, what is and isn't a weapon? Is a Magus full attacking with Spell Combat considered armed or attacking with a weapon in his off hand? If so, shouldn't that spell get the same treatment from "x to weapon damage" effects? If it's a weapon sometimes but not always, where's the distinction?

Any insights or answers would be appreciated, thank you in advance.

Arcane Bloodline is still the best choice. Choose a familiar to receive +4 on initiative. I'm playing d20 (D&D3.x/Pathfinder) by the last 8 years (or more) and acting first increases the chance of victory on the combat. For the AT is almost mandatory to win the initiative.

Yeah, Familiars are great. I'd still rate Orc higher than all the other non-Arcane bloodlines except maybe Sylvan and Sage for specific AT builds.

Also, as a tangent, I find initiative extremely important for certain characters (casters mainly), and almost negligible for others. Sometimes my martial type characters don't care that much about initiative since they would delay anyways to try and get a Full Attack against an enemy that runs up to them. Obviously this varies from martial to martial and level range since some builds have pounce at various levels, or SA, or their GM lets them cycle Quick Runner's Shirts or what have you. But there are plenty of times on my Investigator or Inquisitor that I don't care THAT much about initiative (though they do both have Combat Reflexes which does make it less painful to be low in the count).

If the guide is ever updated for Advanced Class Guide, it should mark Arcanist as Blue.

It has spells like the wizard, Int based, exploits that do ranged touch for damage (so they work well with Sneak Attack), and are highly customizable. Occultist would even allow you to summon in blockers or flanking buddies when you need them, although that would get in the way of using the exploits for ranged touch attacks.

A rogue type with dimensional slide and force strike would be deadly.

Occultist seems like it would be sweet, but it won't progress very well since it's keyed off of your Arcanist level and not your caster level. I do like Dimensional Slide, though. And there are other benefits to the Arcanist, like their spellcasting system being a little more flexible than Sorcerers. Dunno if it is better than Orc Bloodline, though, even if your SA don't get the bonus.

A few things to add:

Half-Elf is a very solid choice for an Arcane Trickster for one reason: Drow Magic racial trait. This gives you Darkness (2nd level arcane) as an SLA and can therefor qualify for AT at 5th level. This gets you access to AT a minimum of one level earlier (or, more realistically, 3). I'd much rather start my path down AT earlier rather than later. But that's a preference of mine; I don't like super late bloomers in builds, Level 5 is the max I usually shoot for a build "coming together" so to speak.

Arcane Strike is a GREAT feat for a blaster focused AT since it applies to rays and other ranged weapon-like spells. (Does this work for Fiery Shuriken? Who knows.)

Also, Orc Bloodline seems pretty insane since it scales very well. Most other Sorcerer Bloodline stuff seems kind of "meh" since your effective Sorcerer level won't be that great. But Orc Bloodline only cares about damage dice, which you have in spades. (Another rule aside: Does SA tacked onto a spell gain this bonus per die damage? I remember reading somewhere that SA tacked onto a spell is considered part of the spell and does the same damage as the spell, but I could be wrong or mixing systems again)

I didn't see this get pointed out earlier, and if it did, I apologize, but:

You can't get SA to Fiery Shurikens more than once per turn, as per the "Volley spell and SAs" FAQ.

Unless I'm wrong. I could be. But I get the feeling that Fiery Shuriken (Fired as one action) falls under the Scorching Ray Volley FAQ.

To be fair, however, I do assume you can use SA on all your Swift Action uses of Fiery Shurikens up to once per round. So it might do more damage over several rounds than Scorching Ray. Also, it synergizes with Arcane Strike (Assuming it works?... are these attacks Rays?

Aside rule Q: If you target multiple enemies with one Standard Action use of Fiery Shuriken do you get SA to each one? Or just against one of the targets? God, I hate that FAQ so much. They should just retroactively get rid of all the weird rule nerfs of precision damage so we don't have rules induced headaches like this.

A few things:

What type of Necromancer were you looking for? IE A bad touch debuffer type with fears and curses? Or are you looking for something more minion-mancy focused with lots of pets? Or something in between?

Why Bard? What does this get you? Inspire Courage doesn't work on mindless undead which is the bulk of what you will be using, and doesn't synergize at all with Sorcerer, Wizard, Oracle, or Cleric, which are the most popular Necromancy classes.

Is this for an Adventure Path? Pathfinder Society? Home-brew campaign? What's your book limitations? All/some/core/hardback only? What's your character creation guidelines?

Answer all these things and you'll get a lot more feedback from the community.

As for your primary question: I honestly don't know. You could Resurrect someone then kill them and use Trap The Soul, though that seems a little wasteful in terms of spell components.

Nice build, if one accepts Dragon Totem as DR not just Energy Resistance.

I would still prefer Beast Totem for pounce, since you can Full Attack, after being knocked away by Roll With It.

IIRC there were some boots, which let you make a move action as a swift action. Those might have been insanely useful.

Another cool trick would be a thrown weapon(mabe Dagger) build. Using a Blinkback build and Quick Draw the guuy could keep full attacking, while never ending up in a real melee fight.

You might be thinking of Quick Runner's Shirt? Either way, it wouldn't work that well because using Roll With It is an Immediate Action which eats up the Swift Action required. Also, the Quick Runner's Shirt doesn't give you a regular Move Action, it's a Move Action that can only be used to move. Though if the item you are thinking of is different that last point of mine might be moot.

In a similar vein, anyone know how Blessings like Good (Holy Strike) and Destruction (Destructive Attacks) interacts with Natural Attacks? Can you "touch" your natural weapons to buff them with these Blessings?

So how does a Warpriest's Sacred Weapon, assuming he picks Weapon Focus:Claw, interact with Improved Natural Attack (claw)? Would his damage increase from Imp Natural Attack "start" at the Sacred Weapon damage die type and increase from there? Or does Sacred Weapon override the damage from the claw, therefore also overriding the damage gained from Imp Nat Attack?

I had a player in one of my games inquire about the viability of a Tengu based martial character, and I'll be honest I hadn't given it too much thought before.

The idea is to be some sort of front line martial who focuses on the Tengu's great natural attack routine.

Things I had in mind, both pros and cons.

- This is an E6 campaign, so the early blossoming of natural attack builds will be a great asset
- Expensive or tricky to overcome DR of all shapes and sizes
- Tengu stats are a little wonky for a martial

Any one have any insights or experience with a tengu martial? I'm trying to find a build that will deal heavy damage and keep up with DR.

Some of my initial ideas were Slayer/Paladin/Cavalier/Warpriest for their various "+X damage per hit" class buffs, but most of these classes will have an issue qualifying for Arcane Strike or making their attacks magic without help from items.

Arcane Strike seems like a feat worth picking up since it affects all your weapons, scales well, and allows you to easily bypass DR/Magic, opening up your amulet slot or allowing you to start your amulet off with energy damage or something.

Using potions of Greater Magic Fang at a high caster level and recycling them (alchemical allocation or something similar) is out of the question because of E6 boundaries.

Any help would be appreciated. This is a "mechanics down" idea, so whatever class/build/feat/whatever that has synergy with natural weapons that you can think of, the better.

Thanks.

Oops, my bad. So yeah, the barbarian certainly edges you out a bit, but again, still not huge. And you keep pace since Studied Combat scales very well. The sentiment is the same, though I'll make sure to edit my posts a little better next time XD

I absolutely love Investigators. They are perfect "Jack of All Trades" type characters since they can be very proficient at combat, scouting, knowledge, trap-finding, and general utility.

So for combat effectiveness:

Let's take an example level 5 investigator who started with an 18 strength. If we assume a small amount of pre combat buffing (which should be viable, though it varies from one campaign/scenario to scenario). Something like Enlarge Person will do fine for our quick assessment, and Mutagen (at around level 5 or so) should be very easy to keep up for a large portion of an adventure or scenarios and some APs.

So his strength, before items, would be 18 base + 4 Mutagen + 2 Enlarge, so 24 (+7)

And let's assume your Investigator has the swift studied target talent and power attack.

To hit = 3 bab 7 str 2 studied combat -1 power attack
To hit = 12

Now let's assume a Barbarian starting with a 19 str, power attack, reckless abandon, and rage.

To hit = 5 BAB 7 str 2 reckless abandon -2 power attack
To hit = 12

Now for damage (we'll assume longspear and a martial polearm, so 1d8 and 1d10 respectively)

Investigator = 1d8 + 2 studied combat + 10 str + 3 power attack
Barbarian = 1d10 +6 power attack + 10 str

So the Barbarian edges out the slightly buffed Investigator by a small margin. If you take Studied Strike into account, they are about even. This is a pretty good benchmark for a character's combat effectiveness, and the Investigator definitely hits the benchmark, albeit with a small concession to allowing the investigator to pre-buff a reasonable amount.

Obviously, nothing is in a vacuum, and both classes have plenty of different things to bring to the table besides just damage and to hit, but that is far more subjective than straight numbers. And both classes can invest more to become better at fighting, and the barbarian probably get's a little bit better if they invest more than Power Attack for feats. Then again, the Investigator still has Inspiration and a ton of buffs at their disposal.

I've played an Investigator to level 5 in PFS and I've routinely been one of the biggest hitters in combat. Unfortunately, however, my AC is garbage without shield, and my saves are mediocre. But I'm not a tank, I'm a skill monkey/secondary combatant, and I feel like he's more than proficient at those roles.

Also, once you get past the first 2 levels as an Investigator, every level is exciting. Even levels you get an extra 1d6 and +1 to your studied combat, and you get new talents and feats at all the odd levels. There's very few "meh" levels post level 2.

The only real difference a Dex to damage feat does is increase the amount of stat points you have to work with. It's certainly good, but DEFINITELY far from broken. Needing a feat like this to make up for a serious MAD issue is not good design, and it just adds to the list of feat tax "things you need to be an okay monk." It being a three feat chain just adds to the problem.

For comparison:
Your AC will be about the same as another martial, albeit a better touch and worse flat-footed.

Good initiative. This is the best boon of being a dex based damage dealer. But you could also take improved initiative and get more mileage here anyway for the cost of one feat.

Reflex save. Whatever, reflex saves are by a mile the least dangerous.

Monks are still one of the worst classes, all things being equal. Sure, you can make a halfway decent unarmed monk but all that system mastery and optimization is doing is overcoming the monks huge shortcomings. I don't think you should have to optimize and research the crap out of a character for it to be an okay option. ALL classes should be effective "out of the box," and we should disregard good optimization when discussing a classes overall efficacy. A player should be able to pick up a class and have it do what they expect. And the Monk fails at that.

If it were me? I'd retool the entire class and try to come up with mechanics from the top-down that reinforce the "fast and mobile harrier" type character that monks should be. Flurry is a bad mechanic for reinforcing this. And c'mon, give them full BAB and d10 HD. Why is a kung fu master worse at hitting his opponents than the big dumb fighter? Why is he less tough?

To top it all off Monks are starting to have the same problem Rogues have: other classes fill their archetype/trope/theme while both filling the role more effectively and generally being stronger mechanically.

I'm still going to take the archetype, mostly because there are only 2 absolutely incredible Lunar mysteries, and the rest are sort of ho hum. So I can get those 2 at level 1, and then use the flexibility of Spirit Guide.

Though now that I have more strength to work with I'm now leaning more towards a typical melee oracle, suddenly that natural attack mystery is looking more enticing. And Fate's Favored is probably now the trait of choice.

I missed the wording on Lore Spirit barring non prepared spellcasters. That sucks.

And yeah, I saw the AnC HD limit. It's not that big a deal, it's only a few levels it affects.

And that feat, while sweet, doesn't increase the bonus given, which is a shame.

What other options are there for Eldritch Heritage that would work with a support focused Lunar Oracle?

And I'm assuming that the Lore Spirit doesn't work at all RAW so I won't use it in PFS. Which is a real bummer.

You're right, I had a brain fart. It should work with the non touch blasts (though it doesn't help a whole lot, what with their terrible to hit).

And for those saying "playtesting is the only way to see if they are bad," I'd beg to differ. If we are looking at straight numbers, you only need to compare it to other classes, since those classes would be under the same circumstances as the Kineticist in most playtesting. Especially considering this class has very little to offer besides mobile blasting.

I'm not saying Kineticists look UNFUN to play. On the contrary, I think they look like a blast to play. It's just hard to get too excited about them when they look so mediocre at best.

If you can use Vital Strike with Kinetic Blasts, then suddenly all the damage woes go out the window.

They will probably modify them to not work with Vital Strike, and since Deadly Aim definitely doesn't work with them, we'd be left with a blasting class that does anemic damage.

I really want this class to be good, but as far as my theorycrafting/character building has gone, these guys have TERRIBLE damage compared to other 3/4 BAB classes geared for range combat, and it just gets embarrassing when you put them up against full martials.

Kineticist at level 7 - 8d6+12 (40 damage) elemental damage versus AC at around +10 to hit with no buffs. This is using composite blasts and taking burn damage, so "going nova" so to speak. This is assuming that there will be a feat for more Wild Talents so the character can qualify for both Expanded Element and a Composite Blast.

Archer 1d8+10 (14 damage) Many shot plus rapid shot plus BAB attacks is 4 attacks, with the bonus to hit being +7/+2 for 3/4 and +9/+4 for full. This isn't taking into account ANY other bonuses from class features, like Bane and Judgments, Smite Evil, Weapon Training, Bardic Performances, Studied Combat, Studied Target, etc. Just archery feats (which, granted, is 4-5 of them, but the Kineticist needs PBS and Precise Shot anyway, so it's only a few more feats over what the Kineticist is already taking)

If you want to compare it to touch, it gets a lot worse. Gunslingers target the same AC, and do a ton more damage. Again, mostly because of Rapid Shot, BAB attacks, Deadly Aim, and weapon enchantments.

I do understand that this class has more stuff going on than pure blasting, so comparing it to Fighters/Gunslingers is a little unfair. But even comparing them to Bards/Inquisitors/Investigators they do less damage. Sure, those classes have buffs that they have a limited amount of, but it really isn't limited in actual play. And on top of all that they have either more skills, spellcasting, or both.

This class needs a lot of help.

These classes are geared to be viewed differently from the divine and arcane.... theyre psychic classes.... and as such you need to keep in mind theyre coming from a completely different direction

Even if these are coming from a very different power source, they still need to fill a role in a party.

I came to the same conclusion as the OP when first reading the Kineticist: they are absolutely HOSED by DR. Not just elemental immunities, but also any sort of DR/Good/Evil/Lawful/Silver/Whatever.

The other big problem with the class is their to-hit with non touch powers. At 3/4 BAB with no way of enhancing their to-hit besides BAB and Stat bonuses, they are going to be missing a LOT of the time.

My fix? Have them ignore DR and have a feat or Wild Talent to ignore some resistance. Archers get Clustered Shots and special arrows, blaster casters get ways of changing their element types on the fly, right now Kineticists have no way of overcoming this. Maybe in the feats they will get some options?

And/or some sort of magic item that lets them enhance their to hit and damage. It would certainly help shore up their pitiful to hit with non touch attacks, and the +3/+5 enhancement threshholds would help bypass DRs.

I really love the design behind this class, it reminds me a lot of the 3.5 Warlock (Which I loved), but it has a lot of issues right now. As of now, it will (barely) break even with archers and other ranged damage dealers when your opponent doesn't have any special defenses, and will be absolutely useless against those who do.

So, while I like the idea of a multi class, I'd rather have it all work from level 1.

So I'm going with a Lunar oracle Spirit Guide archetype. This archetype is great, since I can get Sorc/Wiz spells from the Lore Spirit Hex. I can also take Eldritch Heritage at level 3/5 to get a Familiar if I really want, and I can take Battlecry at 5th to give me more group support tools. Also, my AnC will be the strongest out of all the non teamwork feat options.

It basically gives me everything I want except for straight up Inspire Courage, since Battlecry/Flagbearer don't scale. But I do get full spellcasting, and the Lunar Oracle ability to use Cha instead of Dex for AC means I can afford the Int for the Sorc/Wiz spells from Spirit Guide.

I don't know what to pick for traits, probably one that gives me Handle Animal, and then without another option leaping out at me, I'll just take a +2 initiative trait. I'm not going to be particularly combat focused, so Fate's Favored has less appeal than usual, and nothing else is jumping out at me.

Fauchard is a solid Exotic Weapon upgrade too.

Don't look at it as a feat, look at it as 1500gp. That makes a Bastard sword a fine upgrade from Longsword once you're looking at +2 weapons.

That's certainly not a bad idea, but that has something to do with the power level of the White Pyramid Ioun Stone and less to do with the power of EWP.

And seconding Fauchard being actually worth the feat sometimes. It's usually my go to feat for a Half Elf (Ancestral Weapon) if I don't have anything else in mind. That weapon is great.

I think you can also get Dex to damage via Slashing Grace with a one-handed Bastard Sword, but I could be wrong about that since the Bastard Sword lives in a weird rules limbo where it's both one hand two handed.

You can wield a Large Bastard Sword in 2 hands if you have proficiency with it, which means you take a -2 to attack for 2d8 extra damage. It's less efficient than Power Attack, since it trades -2 for 2 damage versus -1 for 3. But it is cool and does stack with Power Attack so it's not a bad option for people who just want to deal lots of damage.

Also, the 1d10 damage die type does go down the better path for larger weapons, so if you are gaining a huge amount of size increases to your weapon/character then it starts to out damage the Greatsword (though his requires a LOT of size increases before it outpaces it).

Does PFS use the Ultimate Campaign rules for retraining where you can retrain into a feat you wouldn't have been able to qualify for at that level? I always found that part of retraining to be a little much since it lets you create builds that wouldn't work normally. I'm surprised if PFS uses those same rules, but I could certainly be wrong.

Bard. Just take this feat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally

and this feat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/boon-companion

It's feat extensive, but you get a full AC at level 3 if you are a human. And your still a bard.

Problem with this is that Animal Ally requires 4th level, which means taking it at level 5, and then boon companion at level 7. Unless there's someway of gaining a regular bonus feat at fourth level. Most bonus feats are list specific or jut combat feats.

Damanta put together a list of PFS Legal Ways to get a companion.

Have you thought about Inquisitors? The Sacred Huntsman gets to choose from the full druid list of animal companions. They're skill monkeys, and they could be used in a party support role, even if they tend to be melee monsters. You would just have to build that way.

I really wish that there was a bard that got an animal companion, but my guess is that if they made such an archetype, they'd trade out Inspire Courage for it (like they did with the other bardic archetypes.)

A bard with an AC would be my ideal PC.

Hmm

A bard with an AnC would also be my ideal PC. And yeah, I saw that list from the Druid Log's Animal Companion guide.

I was just hoping there was something new that hadn't been added to it yet, or something bizarre that that guide missed.

So far my options are as follows:
Cleric evangelist
Lunar Oracle
Sylvan Sorcerer
Cavalier with support stuff
Inquisitor with support stuff

I could also start as like a Brawler Wild Child 1/Bard or Skald X, take Boon Companion at 1st or 3rd, and then retrain into full Bard/Skald X at level 7 when I can take Animal Ally and Boon Companion.

The more I think about it, the more I like the multiclass. I was thinking Brawler just becase it gives me full BAB where all the other pet dips don't, and the first level abilities of other pet classes don't scale well for multiclassing.

The benefits to Lunar Oracle are also tempting, what with the Elven/Half Elven FCB. Having a better than average pet seems sweet.

Thanks for the ideas guys.

I like the idea of a cavalier dip to get a different sort of group buff.

I could even just stay full class Cavalier and use my mount as my pet. Are there any ways of getting more uses of Tactician per day besides leveling? Or ways of sharing Challenge? I'm not too familiar with the Cavalier class.

Though I do like the idea of a battlefield controller type pet. Again, I want to try and avoid hogging too much of the fights with my pet, it's more just something for me to roll dice with so just buffing the party doesn't become boring.

Unfortunately, the Lunar Oracle doesn't give you access to any of the Large w/ Reach AnCs.

I completely blanked on Lunar Oracle. That's probably a better fit than a cleric or sorcerer for what I want to do.

If only Evangelist was an Oracle archetype. Oh well, can't have it all.

I'm brainstorming for a new PFS character and I'm looking for some inspiration.

I'm looking to find the most Support oriented build/class that also has a pet. My motivation for this is to have a character who doesn't hog the spotlight individually, but does have a pet to give me both something to do and something to buff in-class.

Ideally I'm looking for something with Inspire Courage, spellcasting, and a full Animal Companion from level 1.

So far the only option I've found is the Evangelist Cleric with the Animal/Feather subdomain, but that doesn't come online until level 4-5 when you get your pet and boon companion.

Hunter, Druid, Cavalier, Inquisitor, Brawler, Barbarian, and Sorcerer all have options for a full animal companion, but tend to be either focused on martial power themselves, or are lacking in the party support role. Sorcerers are close, but I don't have any actual buffs for the party until much higher level when I have access to haste and some other arcane spells.

Animal Ally is another option for a Bard or Skald, but again only comes online until level 5+, which is a little too late for my tastes.

Any suggestions? Things I've missed?

Mechanically, there isn't a whole lot of options for tactics in the sense of sitting down in a war room and going over a battle plan. Most of that should be done with RP and skill checks if necessary. This is just because almost 100% of combat in D&D and PF is small party skirmishing so there is no real reason to have fleshed out large scale rules.

Ultimate Campaign has some options for large scale fighting, but there aren't many character options for becoming optimized in those sub-rules.

If you want your character to have a tactical bend, I'd go with a class that has some sort of buff sub-role to it, like Evangelist Cleric, or any Bard or Skald, or Exemplar Brawler. Then give him a reasonable Intelligence or Wisdom and role-play him as being a smart leader instead of a charismatic leader. Even if his mechanics are keyed off of Charisma (and therefore has a high charisma) you can still skin the mechanic however you want, including saying that your Inspire Courage buffs are from smart tactics instead of inspiring words.

Other options would be a class that gains teamwork feats and can share them with other PCs, like Cavalier.

All of these options, however, are leading a skirmish, not leading a war.

Gaining a natural attack is a good way of doing this, so is a monk or brawler or sacred fist dip. It doesn't let you use your polearm up close, but it does allow you to threaten the squares adjacent to you. Not quite what you asked, but there's not a lot of ways of doing it with a polearm that don't replace important class features or are crummy.

That's sort of what I expected; for it to be all over the place with table variation.

Glad to see people are actually allowing hunter's to use the tricks though. You'd be surprised how many people don't see that line of text in the Animal Companion for Hunters.

stoolpigeon87 wrote:

I can't buy a regular bow, it has to be my Heirloom bow, which is where I was having the problems. Now that I know Masterwork Transformation DOES work (it used to not), this build is good to go.

Sounds like you're asking for advice WITHOUT giving a reasonable amount of information... like, WHY is it important that it is an heirloom and NOT a regular bow?

It's important because I don't gain proficiency in-class, and I don't want to waste a feat or level on proficiency. I mentioned all this in my first post.

I think you're being a little unfair to the Investigator for the Combat chassis.

Pros:
-Studied Combat is REAL good, even with only a 4 level dip. +2 to hit and damage all day long for a move action.
-You qualify for extra talent, which means you can turn your Studied Combat into a swift action, AND you can qualify for Domino Strike (it's in the ACG Supplement that came out recently). Domino Strike lets your pass the studied combat target around when you hit with Studied Strike
- LOTS of skills
- Inspiration is surprisingly useful, even with a small amount per day
- Standard action buffing, like Enlarge Person. Some extra resources per day, and Alchemical Allocation are all icing on top.
- Mutagen is great, even at only 40ish minutes per day
- Double as either a face or rogue (or both)
- Int instead of wisdom to a bunch of relevant skills via the Empiricist archetype.

Cons:
- One less BAB, lots less HP than typical martial chassis.
- More MAD since it requires at least a small Int
- Less weapon proficiency and armor proficiency

I can't buy a regular bow, it has to be my Heirloom bow, which is where I was having the problems. Now that I know Masterwork Transformation DOES work (it used to not), this build is good to go.

And I was trying to avoid dipping, because I want to keep my spell casting up to par. And Flurry of Bows is worse than regular archery until you get Ki Pool and the second extra attack, so at least a 4 level "dip." At that point my character concept is out the window, why not just play a ZAM? :P

Wheldrake wrote:

Why not just play an elf? Longbow, longsword, etc - and with any example of such weapons, not just the single heirloom weapon. Sure, you don't get racial bonuses to WIS, but the DEX and INT boost will help you anyway.

Human with adoptive parentage is better imo. No penalty to con, you also learn elven languages, the same weapon familiarity, and you keep your skilled trait.

Yeah, I'd trade +2 con for -2 int for a class that doesn't need int. Though you do lose out on some of the smaller bonuses from Half Elf/Elf.

I didn't see that part about Masterwork Transformation. Nice catch.

And the feats are real tight for this build.
1 + H - Point Blank, Rapid Shot
3 Precise Shot
4 Crossbow Style: Deadly Aim
5 Spell Focus Conjuration
6 Crossbow Style: Imp Precise Shot
7 Augment Summoning
8 Combat Trick: Clustered Shots
9 Many Shot
10 + ???

Obviously some of these feats can be moved around to get certain feats earlier or later but that's a judgment call (precise before rapid shot, manyshot before clustered). And you can take the archery style path instead of crossbow to move some feats around as well.

The only real places to pick something else up would be to forgo the Augment Summoning path. And I would like to have all the necessary archer feats as soon as possible. If I wasn't human I'd be waiting until 4 to have the big 3.

Actually, this won't even work. I thought Masterwork Transformation was one of the things you could buy with Prestige, but I am wrong. And since spells cast by PCs always end at the end of the scenario, Heirloom Weapon is effectively useless.

Back to the drawing board, I guess this character was not meant to be in PFS.

Yeah, I spent about an hour digging through traits and races and stuff to try and find something, but I'm coming up empty.

Looks like I'll be mainly meleeing it up until I can afford the +1 Adaptive Composite (+0) upgrade to my Heirloom Weapon.

I'd rather wait and spend a relatively small amount of gold at level 3 or so than lose out on an entire feat, and therefore screwing up my entire feat progression.

I know this is a sticky topic, considering there's been no clarification on how the Skirmisher Tricks mentioned in the Hunter's Animal Companion function, but how have players and GMs been handling this class ability? What are people's experiences at PFS been like regarding this?

For those who don't know
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rdsc?Hunters-Animal-Companion-and-Hunters-Tric ks

That thread should make it clear how completely ambiguous this class feature is.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or try to draw even more attention to this matter (I'm sure they saw the 130 FAQ'd thread I linked, plus the dozens of other threads). I'm just curious what people's experiences have been.

Hunter's Eye is a trait from an old Guide to Organized Play for the Andoran faction. Is this legal to take for a new character for PFS?

For reference:
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Hunter%27s%20Eye

I need to find a way to gain Longbow proficiency (except a dip) for a druid Nature Fang archer. This needs to be PFS legal.

I know Heirloom Weapon is legal, but I can't afford the gold to pay for it. And Rich Parents, Seeking Adventure, and it's kind aren't allowed. Neither is Hunter's Eye from last year's Guide to Organized Play.

Right now my only option seems to be Heirloom Weapon with a +0 Composite Bow, then wait until I have 3300 GP to pay to make it Masterwork, +1, and Adaptive. But that will take about 6+ sessions. I'd rather try to get it earlier.

Also, Elf is an option, but I need the human bonus feat for archery stuff since archery is super feat intensive.

Any ideas? Is there a trait that IS PFS legal that gives you more money that I'm missing? Or some other clever way of gaining Longbow proficiency?

I'm going to throw my hat into the ring for Aberrant, just because gaining reach is REALLY strong as a Magus. It allows you to Spell Combat out of reach of most medium (and some large) opponents. And it's 1st level power isn't terrible.

Bump, for I also would like to know the answer to this, and there doesn't seem to be one yet.

I have a bunch of time to wait until level 7 in PFS, but it'd be nice to know either way so I know what I have to look (or not) look forward to.

This is for PFS, so I can retrain (And most GMs I know, myself included, allow the UCampaign retraining).

It's not a necessary feat, it's just something to take at first level since I don't qualify for anything good yet. I could go down the Pack Flanking feat chain, but int 13 is a bit steep.

Also, side note, does anyone know if Amplified Rage works with Sympathetic Rage? It's a rules question, I know, but I'd rather not make a new thread for a pretty simple answer.