You can wield a Large Bastard Sword in 2 hands if you have proficiency with it, which means you take a -2 to attack for 2d8 extra damage. It's less efficient than Power Attack, since it trades -2 for 2 damage versus -1 for 3. But it is cool and does stack with Power Attack so it's not a bad option for people who just want to deal lots of damage.
Also, the 1d10 damage die type does go down the better path for larger weapons, so if you are gaining a huge amount of size increases to your weapon/character then it starts to out damage the Greatsword (though his requires a LOT of size increases before it outpaces it).
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Two-Weapon Fighter can dual wield Bastard Swords without penalty. Ain't get better than that.
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There's only one exotic weapon in the game that is arguably worth a feat. It's the Falcata.
If you have a homebrew setting, consider giving the Bastard Sword out as a racial weapon to certain cultures (like the waraxe is for dwarves). Same with other exotic weapons. That's pretty much the only way they will see use in your game.
I think you can also get Dex to damage via Slashing Grace with a one-handed Bastard Sword, but I could be wrong about that since the Bastard Sword lives in a weird rules limbo where it's both one hand two handed.
Fauchard is a solid Exotic Weapon upgrade too.
Don't look at it as a feat, look at it as 1500gp. That makes a Bastard sword a fine upgrade from Longsword once you're looking at +2 weapons.
That's certainly not a bad idea, but that has something to do with the power level of the White Pyramid Ioun Stone and less to do with the power of EWP.
And seconding Fauchard being actually worth the feat sometimes. It's usually my go to feat for a Half Elf (Ancestral Weapon) if I don't have anything else in mind. That weapon is great.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
Though it was a great idea and would have been very nice. Just have your wizard use Enlarge Person on you for the extra damage and without the -2 to attack rolls
At a certain point, you can grab this instead of an explicit Bastard sword.
Yes, to the best of my understanding you get the weapon focus/spec bonuses one handed or two handed.
As their name implies by starting with the word "weapon", these feats apply to the weapon, not how you hold it.
The penalties apply to how you hold it and are only alleviated if you take the appropriate exotic weapon feat to address the "two handed" use case.
All the words and thinking it takes to understand this sword is what makes it exotic...
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When a feat has pre-requisites, you cannot use the feat if you no longer meet those pre-reqs. 'Proficiency with the weapon' is just as much a pre-req as 'BAB +1' or 'Dex 13'.
When you are taking a non-proficiency penalty, this is because you are not proficient! Since proficiency is the pre-req, being non-proficient means you no longer have the pre-req for Weapon Focus.
Generally speaking, everything you can do with a bastard sword you can also do with a longsword without expending a feat. The only difference is the die size, which averages out to +1 damage. Spending a feat on +1 damage is generally considered a poor trade.
That said, sometimes you just really want to roll the bigger die. :)
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It's not terrible if you get free proficiency somehow, such as by worshiping Ragathiel or his mom Feronia, being a half elf, or certain favored class bonuses.
Generally speaking, it's not worth a feat for any exotic weapon, but they can be nice to have if you can pick them some other way.
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c) Is there something obvious I am missing in terms of the awesomeness of the bastard sword?
The Flavor? I always choos the weapon for other reason than ''this weapon is better than that weapon''. If I want to play John Snow, here we go with a long bow and a bastard sword. Is it better than a long sword or a 2 handed sword? No. But it have a different flavor.
There's only one exotic weapon in the game that is arguably worth a feat. It's the Falcata.
Okay, I'll give. What's special about the Falcata? I understand swooning over the Fauchard, but what am I missing about the Falcata?
Hmm
It's the only weapon in Pathfinder that simultaneously has a threat range greater than 20 and a critical multiplier higher that x2. 19-20/x3 on a d8 one-handed weapon is amazing. Especially since you can still two-hand it.
An exotic weapon proficiency would essentially only be worth it if you acquire some high end exotic weapon in a campaign and need the feat to use it.
One example I can think of is Briar from Kingmaker.
I'm still quite curious if are eligible to take Weapon Focus in Bastard Sword by virtue of having proficiency with using it two-handed. If the answer is yes, do I get my weapon focus when using it one handed (-4 for nonproficiency, +1 for weapon focus for a total of -3)?
You cannot use a bastard sword one-handed without proper training.
Bastard sword can work fairly well if:
1) You use a Large version two-handed,
2) can readily gain a size increase through enlarge person or similar spell/effect,
3) and/or can benefit from lead blades or a similar effect.
It actually makes Vital Strike a somewhat decent choice for a character that can't gain pounce or another way to gain multiple attacks when moving. Or for a character that isn't crit-fishing.
From a pure numbers perspective, it's somewhat inefficient; but it's really only for a narrowly focused progression. A similar character can be created with a dwarf and dwarven waraxe without requiring a feat.
It's the only weapon in Pathfinder that simultaneously has a threat range greater than 20 and a critical multiplier higher that x2. 19-20/x3 on a d8 one-handed weapon is amazing. Especially since you can still two-hand it.There's only one exotic weapon in the game that is arguably worth a feat. It's the Falcata.
Okay, I'll give. What's special about the Falcata? I understand swooning over the Fauchard, but what am I missing about the Falcata?
Hmm
^ this.
Starting at about 8th level, a crit-fisher build with a Falcata is one of the most powerful combat builds in the game, right up there with Archer Paladin and Pouncebarian.
A bastard sword can be extremely useful to a mounted warrior who fails a ride check to guide the mount with knees. You can use one hand to grab the reins and still attack. Admittedly, that won't happen very often with the low DC, but at lower levels its possible - especially with armor check penalties.
There's only one exotic weapon in the game that is arguably worth a feat. It's the Falcata.
If you have a homebrew setting, consider giving the Bastard Sword out as a racial weapon to certain cultures (like the waraxe is for dwarves). Same with other exotic weapons. That's pretty much the only way they will see use in your game.
I did something similar in my homebrew game, where I made proficiency with the bastard sword a trait for paladins of a specific faith.
If you happen to be a cleric, inquisitor, or warpriest of the appropriate deity, the bastard sword becomes a superior one-handed weapon to most other alternatives.
Apart from free proficiency, sun blade (ab)use, or unexpected magic item drops, there's currently no mechanical advantage to specifically using a bastard sword. But the same could be said of why Jon Snow is using a bastard sword as well. ("Oh, look! A powerful Valyrian steel bastard sword just fell into my lap! I guess I should train to use it one-handed.")
and then there is Null Blade.
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At a certain point, you can grab this instead of an explicit Bastard sword.
There are also Talonstrike Swords from Andoran: Spirit of Liberty but they may have lost some of their 'specialness' now (I think) anchoring is a generic weapon enchantment.
If you have a homebrew setting, consider giving the Bastard Sword out as a racial weapon to certain cultures (like the waraxe is for dwarves). Same with other exotic weapons. That's pretty much the only way they will see use in your game.
That's what I do in my home setting. Each of the main groupings of humans get a martial weapon they're proficient in and an exotic weapon that they treat as martial. The Northlanders get broad swords (slashing shortswords) & bastard swords, the Midlanders get kukris & falcatas, and the Southlanders get scimitars & khopeshs.
First rule of Bastard Swords is, you don't talk about Bastard Swords.
Second rule of Bastard Swords is....
... Unwritten.
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Quickdraw shields and bastard sword allows you to switch quickly between sword'n'board and two-handed mode. But admittedly, The only reason I'd stick with bastard swords instead of short swords is if I had a reasonable chance of getting a sun blades for the off-hand... sun blades are special enough IMO to warrant taking the TWF feat after you find the item.
If I'd play in a homebrew that say, starts at level 15+, with the ability to build a character with sun blades then I'd build a fighter with TWF and short sword greater specialization feat chains... two sun blades if the DM allows it...
Just curious.
Does this work PFS wise. Swashbuckler 3 with the feats Weapon focus Bastard sword and slashing grace coupled with a crasked Opalescent White Pyramid (Ioun Stone)?
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I didn't realize this, though, sadly, it only makes bastard swords worse. :( What a strange choice to make it unusable as opposed to just awkward.I'm still quite curious if are eligible to take Weapon Focus in Bastard Sword by virtue of having proficiency with using it two-handed. If the answer is yes, do I get my weapon focus when using it one handed (-4 for nonproficiency, +1 for weapon focus for a total of -3)?You cannot use a bastard sword one-handed without proper training.
Did you really look at the description of the bastard sword (which is a one-handed weapon according to the rules), read 'A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon.', and come to the conclusion that trying to use a one-handed weapon in one hand without proficiency means that you can attack with it at -4, the standard non-proficiency penalty?
The nerve of some people!
First rule of Bastard Swords is, you don't talk about Bastard Swords.
Wise words, my friend. I should have added my +2 human bonus to Wisdom instead of Intelligence. : )
UMM bastard swords are better than a falcata. The D10 compared to the D8 is actually pretty big. By the time you get a crit the extra 1-2 points of damage per hit makes up for the smaller crit multiplier.
This is for 100 attacks, I use max damage and improved crit here but it scales exactly the same if you use average and no imp crit.
BASTARD 10 max damage, 20% crit change, 800 non-crit damage, 2X crit mult, 400 crit damge, total damage 1200
FACATA 8 max damage, 20% crit chance, 640 non-crit damge, 3X crit mult, 480 crit damge, total damage 1120
if my math is right, this would make the bastard sword the best 1 handed weapon (had this in excel but it doesnt format properly)
Just curious.
Does this work PFS wise. Swashbuckler 3 with the feats Weapon focus Bastard sword and slashing grace coupled with a crasked Opalescent White Pyramid (Ioun Stone)?
It depends on whether or not you can use the ioun stone's granted proficiency to qualify for Weapon Focus.
Personally I'd say yes since the enhancement bonus to ability scores from belts and headband sets a precedence for magic items allowing you to qualify for feats and effects, but others may disagree.
Maybe you could ask your local venture captain?
UMM bastard swords are better than a falcata. The D10 compared to the D8 is actually pretty big. By the time you get a crit the extra 1-2 points of damage per hit makes up for the smaller crit multiplier.
This is for 100 attacks, I use max damage and improved crit here but it scales exactly the same if you use average and no imp crit.
BASTARD 10 max damage, 20% crit change, 800 non-crit damage, 2X crit mult, 400 crit damge, total damage 1200
FACATA 8 max damage, 20% crit chance, 640 non-crit damge, 3X crit mult, 480 crit damge, total damage 1120
if my math is right, this would make the bastard sword the best 1 handed weapon (had this in excel but it doesnt format properly)
You need to take into consideration how critical hit multiplication interacts with damage riders, since most people won't just be dealing weapon damage. The higher the damage modifier is, the better a higher crit chance/multiplier becomes. Using max damage instead of average damage on the dice somewhat overstates the importance of die size - normally the average would be 4.5 and 5.5 so the difference would be +1 damage, not +2. However I'll use your formula to keep the numbers comparable.
Let's do the same math with a 5th level fighter that has a +4 strength modifier, weapon specialization, a +1 weapon, and uses power attack for a total of +11 to damage. He's too low level to have Improved Critical, so in order to keep the numbers similar with the ones you posted earlier we'll assume he benefits from a Keen Edge spell.
BASTARD 21 max damage, 20% crit chance, 1680 non-crit damage, 2X crit mult, 840 crit damage, total damage 2520
FACATA 19 max damage, 20% crit chance, 1520 non-crit damge, 3X crit mult, 1140 crit damage, total damage 2660
Now let's progress it to level 10. The fighter now has a +3 weapon, +2 from weapon training, and a +8 strength modifier. He still has Weapon Specialization and Power Attack, which gives him a damage bonus of of +21.
BASTARD 31 max damage, 20% crit chance, 2480 non-crit damage, 2X crit mult, 1240 crit damage, total damage 3720
FACATA 29 max damage, 20% crit chance, 2320 non-crit damge, 3X crit mult, 1740 crit damage, total damage 4060
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It's more of a mystery why the Tetsubo is an exotic weapon. At least the bastard sword is good in the extremely situational situational of being grappled and needing to use a one handed weapon {although the falcata or urumi is still better).
But let's compare the Tetsubo with other equivalent weapons:
Falchion: 18-20 2d4 S damage: martial
Nodachi: 18-20 1d10 S damage + brace: Martial
Scythe: x4 2d4 P or S damage + Trip: martial
Tetsubo: x4 1d10 B damage: Exotic
What does not match the others?
You cannot use a great sword one handed. Period-end-of-story. It is a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use 2-handers in one hand.
The bastard sword is an exotic 1-hand weapon. It is also a 2-handed martial weapon.
You cannot use a Bastard sword one handed if you don't have Exotic proficiency because it is used as a 2-handed martial weapon.
It may be more consistent to have it just be a 2-handed martial weapon with a special caviar that EWP let's you treat it as one-handed.
Cause you can use a falcata with a -4 to hit, without the feat, right?
UMM bastard swords are better than a falcata. The D10 compared to the D8 is actually pretty big. By the time you get a crit the extra 1-2 points of damage per hit makes up for the smaller crit multiplier.
You should probably do a little more research. The math has been thoroughly dissected already, and it refutes your stance. Go ahead and search the boards. You might be surprised
You cannot use a great sword one handed. Period-end-of-story. It is a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use 2-handers in one hand.
My Titan Mauler disagrees
Note that samurai gain katana as a free weapon proficiency at level 1.
This is exactly equivalent to getting the bastard sword as a free proficiency at level 1.
The bastard used to be 'the' best weapon in the game in 1e. One handed, it was a longsword. Two handed, it was nearly as good as a two hander. The only reason not to use one is that longswords were 65% of all magic weapons.
In PF, there's barely any difference between using a longsword and a bastard sword unless you're talking size increases, as the d10 takes a bigger jump then the d8.
So, unless you can get the EWP for free, take the longsword. If you can get it for free (or a katana), take that instead. It's only a pt of difference, which makes it not worth a feat, but definitely worth it if free.
==Aelryinth
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It's more of a mystery why the Tetsubo is an exotic weapon. At least the bastard sword is good in the extremely situational situational of being grappled and needing to use a one handed weapon {although the falcata or urumi is still better).
But let's compare the Tetsubo with other equivalent weapons:
Falchion: 18-20 2d4 S damage: martial
Nodachi: 18-20 1d10 S damage + brace: Martial
Scythe: x4 2d4 P or S damage + Trip: martial
Tetsubo: x4 1d10 B damage: ExoticWhat does not match the others?
It's because the "exotic" tag doesn't have a uniform definition - the tag is used both on weapons that are mechanically superior to martial weapons (bastard weapon > longsword, rhoka > scimitar) and for weapons that are unusual, rare, or just plain strange but not mechanically better than simple or martial weapons, like how the butterfly knife is essentially identical to a simple dagger, or the rope gauntlet is similar to the cestus.
I seem to recall reading an article suggesting "cultural proficiency" that would alter the martial and exotic weapon list depending on where the character was from. Can't remember if it was a paizo product or 3rd party though.
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The bastard sword is an exotic 1-hand weapon.
Correct.
It is also a 2-handed martial weapon.
Incorrect. Both before and after the FAQ, a bastard sword (for your size) is a one-handed weapon.
You cannot use a Bastard sword one handed if you don't have Exotic proficiency because it is used as a 2-handed martial weapon.
That's not the reason. The reason you can't is not because it's a two-handed weapon (because it's a one-handed weapon).
Even after the FAQ, which says that if you use it in one hand you use it as a one-handed weapon and if you use it in two hands then you use it as a two-handed weapon, then it logically follows that if you use it in one hand then you're using a one-handed weapon in one hand, not using a two handed weapon in one hand!
It may be more consistent to have it just be a 2-handed martial weapon with a special caviar that EWP let's you treat it as one-handed.
Exactly! You've hit the nail on the head!
The FAQs about the bastard sword that came before the latest one all admitted that it's a one-handed weapon which required EWP, and then made rulings as if it were really a two handed weapon which can be used in one hand if you have the EWP.
So, if the weapon had always (since d20) been a two handed weapon, and the EWP let you use it in one hand, then all of their rulings about it would make sense. But it was never a two handed weapon in this game engine! It was always a one handed weapon, and that's why their rulings flew in the face of both the written word, with the rules on weapon proficiency, and with logic.
If it fits the style I like the katana better than the bastard sword. The falcate will still be better with high damage bonuses but this is offset by there being more classes that give katana proficiency than falcate prof.
And I'm not one of the "katana is (or should be) the best weapon because RL" guys.